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3:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz then why does my text sampled from a texture look so aliased :(
 
@melak47 show TexParameter calls
 
@melak47 bad filtering.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't do this in opengl :p
 
@melak47 then how the hell am I supposed to know
 
magic!
 
3:02 PM
@melak47 ...
I have enough issues with OpenGL to even bother acknowledging the fact that DirectX exists.
 
user1804599
ITT: Bartek has issues.
 
@melak47 don't you feel extremely ashamed of yourself?
 
user1804599
I’m wondering.
 
@rightfold where?
oh, wondering, not wandering, nvm
 
3:05 PM
@Jefffrey ?
 
@melak47 Using DX instead of OGL... bad boy!
 
I don't know enough ogl yet >_>
 
user3010322
OGL is love.
 
user3010322
OGL is life.
 
OGL is open
OGL is cross platform
 
user3010322
3:07 PM
specification.
 
cross platform is victory
victory is life
 
user1804599
A lisp that compiles to SQL would be nice.
 
@melak47 yoda, is that you?
 
I'm offended
it gets better when I reduce the texture size, so it seems to be mostly minification...
but still not very good at an angle :/
 
@melak47 :)
 
user3010322
3:09 PM
Use all the super sampling!
 
user3010322
Ugh.
 
user3010322
I don't know.
 
user3010322
My brain can't figure this out.
 
user3010322
WHATEVER didn't need it anyways!
 
seems to me like the initial text rendering is just of very poor quality.
 
3:11 PM
@melak47 You may want to read up on mipmaps and trilinear filtering.
 
fuck both of those
it's not the case here
 
@DeadMG it's not
problem is I can't have a mipmapped texture interop with D2D for text drawing
so I'd have to copy to another texture and generate the mips
 
@melak47 using dx won't make you know ogl better
@melak47 amazing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz and not getting anything done with ogl in a 24 hour jam will?
 
user3010322
You could totally get something done.
 
user3010322
3:14 PM
You simpry rack disciprine!
 
@melak47 you have time before the next game jam
 
@Jefffrey I also have exams ._.
 
@melak47 this month?
 
@melak47 ah that was a jam project.
well the jam is over
 
@Jefffrey yeah
 
3:15 PM
@melak47 then why are you playing with DX?
go study!
 
@Jefffrey its more fun than studsying ;)
 
@ArneMertz then he should totally drop that and use OGL instead
 
> implying that OGL is fun
 
and doing dishes is more fun, too... and cleaning up the appartment... I never had a cleaner appartment than in exam season :D
 
I have to do way too much coding for my uni to still code for fun
I have to write way too much C++ for it to be fun
at first it was fun, going back to C++
and then I quickly realized how fucking badly fucked up this language is
 
3:18 PM
C++ is a nice language
 
lol right now everyone in the whole fucking building is playing 2048
 
it's not.
 
at least I don't feel guilty for slacking off
 
haha, we don't code anymore at my uni ._.
 
it's godawful.
 
3:19 PM
it's not perfect, but it is nice
 
It's hard as fuck and you get really nothing for the hard work you put into it
 
and we all know it
 
no it's not nice.
unless you're embedded wanker
 
@BartekBanachewicz get a job where you are confronted with bad style and a lousy C++03 compiler - then writing clean C++11 code is fun again
 
'cept it's unicode, so it's not clean C++11
 
3:19 PM
no one cares
@BartekBanachewicz, tell me bartek, what are your top5 languages?
 
@Jefffrey in the time you have to spend to be good at C++, you can learn C# and Python
 
In c++, try to use C++ library types to make your life easier. I've provided an answer based on Boost Spirit — sehe 10 secs ago
 
@Jefffrey define "top5"
 
It has been a long time since I've guilty of slamming noobs with Spirit
 
tbf Qi isn't really the most intuitive library to use for a beginner
but then again, string parsing isn't a begginer's task
 
3:21 PM
@BartekBanachewicz best 5 five languages in descending order of goodness starting from 1 (best) to 5 (less good)
@BartekBanachewicz in your opinion (totally subjective good)
 
@Jefffrey goodness like academic, not-real-life, totally-subjective good?
 
@Jefffrey Haskell, C# / Scala, Lua, Python, Terra / Rust
 
oh my sweet jesus... you are a lost case
 
Rust... how much Rust have you written really?
:D
 
3:24 PM
I don't have to write in it to see if it's reasonable or not.
 
what the fuck is even "Terra"?
 
user1804599
I never liked Rust.
 
@Jefffrey Terra is a low-level compiled native language.
 
user3010322
@rightfold I heard Tetanus was cooler.
 
also Rust? Seriously?
 
3:25 PM
no you can't really know if the language is good if all you saw were 15 examples tailored to fit the language
4
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth HELP MEEE
 
user3010322
Also good morning.
 
user3010322
Also HEEELP MEEE ;~;
 
@ScarletAmaranth C++ examples tailored for C++ look terrible
 
3:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz then let's filter that top 5 with languages you have actually experience with and you know most of the different facets to
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth Raytracing, gone wrong!!!
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz That is irrelevant.
 
user3010322
Refraction isn't working at all!
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh look, I can do fact n = product [1..n], isn't Haskell THE best language?
 
@Jefffrey why don't we just leave Haskell on that list while we're at it
 
3:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, now populate the other 4 spots with something that is not C++... come on! I dare you!
 
look ma, no arguments fact = product . flip take [1..]; Haskell must indeed be the best language
 
let's see what languages you are going to invent
 
@Jefffrey C# Lua Python JS
because seriously I'd rather write JS than C++.
 
profane!
 
feel free to change it to TS/LS/CS whatever dialect
 
user3010322
3:28 PM
I like programming in Egaugnal, personally.
 
@Jefffrey that's a nice conclusion considering you asked me for a subjective opinion
 
user3010322
Really weird name, but it's great.
 
why the fuck am I even in this discussion
 
@ThePhD concretely?
 
yeah, I don't know either
 
3:28 PM
C++ is obviously the greatest language on the planet
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth I can do reflections perfectly. That part is easy for me.
 
user3010322
It's when I do refractions to simulate some kind of transparency
 
the fact that writing, debugging and maintaining it is fucking joke is not relevant
 
user3010322
that everything goes off the wall.
 
because it's obviously a nice language
 
user1804599
3:29 PM
Stop talking about C++.
 
but no C++ is so great
 
user1804599
And programming languages in general.
 
esp. Microsoft compiler right.
such a nice, expressive language
also don't forget FAST
 
C++ isn't great but it's the best available.
 
because C++ FAST
SO FAST
 
3:30 PM
@ThePhD yeahhh I wouldn't know, I haven't even attempted this yet :)
 
LOOK HOW FAST
 
user3010322
;~~~;
 
I DONT CARE FAST
 
I can't even see how fast it is
 
user3010322
Scarlet, why you let me down ;~~~;
 
3:30 PM
that's how fast it is
 
user3010322
ZIDANE NEEDED YOU.
 
OMG FAST
ALSO MEMORY!
YES FAST AND MEMORY YES
 
@ThePhD I have a thesis to write, girl to steal and semester to finish
I haven't had the time as of recent
 
user3010322
:c
 
user3010322
Well... W-well...
 
user3010322
3:31 PM
Sniffles.
 
user3010322
F-Fine... I guess just reflections are okay....
 
all my spare times is spent watching anime :)
 
user3010322
SNIFFLE.
 
user3010322
speaking of Anime.
 
user3010322
 
3:32 PM
it's not friday yet.
 
user3010322
German music, german-japanese music for everyone!
 
kill la kill is getting awesome
 
@BartekBanachewicz you just went full retard
2 mins ago, by DeadMG
C++ isn't great but it's the best available.
 
@Jefffrey so what are the main reasons you are choosing C++ over other languages?
 
this was my point ^
 
3:33 PM
@BartekBanachewicz JS doesn't have nearly enough Freds!
 
@Jefffrey why is it the best is my point.
inb4 "fast and memory"
prolly a mention of C libraries ecosystem which I am already preparing to laugh at
 
speak english
or put some punctuation
 
user3010322
... Wh
 
user3010322
Wha
 
user3010322
WHAT
 
3:34 PM
"why is it the best is my point." -- Is not english
 
user3010322
MY SHADOWS
 
user3010322
THEY'RE GONA
 
@Jefffrey said Jefffrey, not using punctuation at all
@Jefffrey it kinda is.
 
@Jefffrey It pretty much is.
 
@ThePhD which k-d tree implementation are you using?
 
3:35 PM
he clearly wants to know why you consider C++ the best language.
 
user3010322
None.
 
user1804599
import System

foo :: Show a => Int -> a -> IO ()
foo 0 x = print x
foo n x = foo (n-1) [x]

main = do [num_lists] <- getArgs
          foo (read num_lists) 0
 
user1804599
lol this is funny.
 
@Jefffrey My point was "why is it [c++] the best?".
 
Wide is clearly the best language, but in second place is it's predecessor C++
 
3:36 PM
the best language is the foul language
 
I hate Spring.
Is there a alternative for Spring's RestTemplate?
 
I like it, it precedes Summer ;o
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's not. I like it in a totally subjective manner. And there are some things I don't like (it's not great), but it's probably the best language I've ever seen (it's the best choice there's) in my short programming experience.
And no, no language is perfect. Not even Haskell.
 
@Jefffrey the best choice for what, again. Do you think C++ is the best choice for everything?
@Jefffrey never said that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Obviously not?
 
3:38 PM
@Jefffrey So, assuming the things it is the best choice for, why is it the best?
sorry for awkward phrasing again I guess.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What is Haskell the best choice for?
 
writing Haskell programs
 
then writing C++ programs
 
: D
 
;)
 
3:41 PM
@Jefffrey okay, let me rephrase. Can you show any examples of the choice that you've made between C++ and other languages and why have you chosen C++?
I also did pick C++ voluntarily in the past, but nowadays I'd probably use something else for the projects I did in C++.
Because, ohwow I now know other languages.
And stunningly, I don't know if there's any project I would redo in C++.
2
 
C++ feels like you get the tools you want for the job, instead of bitching and complaining all the time.
 
user3010322
>.>
 
user3010322
I dunno, there's a lot of bitching and complaining to be had about C++... <.<
 
you want to mutate shit, you can, you want to use native memory, unsafe pointer hacks, you can, you can have an immutable tree of abstract objects created with your functional program that you allocated with your custom memory allocator and the language doesn't totally fall apart when asked to deal with external resources.
 
3:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz what question is that? every language has it's own environment that is different from others. C++ has its own magical environment of "everything and nothing".
 
@Jefffrey I mean that you keep repeating that C++ is nice, and you obviously write stuff in it, so I'd like to see how you have evaluated and compared other languages and finally settled on C++ for those projects.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader When you wake up and have time for an idiot like me, I could really use your help in figuring out the proper way to do reflection and refraction. =/
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth If you need help doing reflections and stuff later on, let me know. It's the only thing I know how to do properly, apparently.
 
wow, those shadows look like crap.
 
user3010322
3:46 PM
I'm employing 0 anti-aliasing right now.
 
cause I gotta say
every time I code in C# and it's like, I want to import resources from a native API, it's a fucking bitch.
 
user3010322
Has anyone made a good OpenGL C# binding yet?
 
@DeadMG but it gets no lazy evaluation for those immutable data structures. And TBH, when dealing with "external resources", using C libraries from C++ is usually way more annoying than using it from languages that supply idiomatic bindings.
 
user3010322
We have SharpDX. What do we have for OPenGL?
 
@ThePhD OpenTK isn't that bad IIRC
 
3:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Lazy evaluation is a feature that I never find a need for. It's like purity- other people seem to put value on it but I've never found a reason why.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I've had experiences with other languages (PHP, JS, C, Ruby, Python) and I feel like C++ is the only one who actually has people behind that knows what they are doing. I can almost hear the crying and suicidal thoughts of some of the people of the standard committee.
 
@DeadMG zip [1..] xs doesn't speak to you? (as a very crude example)
 
and also, the trouble is what happens when you're using a library where the language designers did not pre-build a super-nice wrapper for you and you have to make your own.
 
Does it means I want to use C++ over any of those languages? No.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, not really.
 
3:49 PM
:o
laziness is power
 
'what do you mean by a return statement?' .. oh dear:

http://stackoverflow.com/a/22483424/758133
 
and comfort
for lazy people
 
besides
it's perfectly attainable in C++ if you want it.
 
@Jefffrey I would extremely disagree. There's a lot of competent people working on other languages.
 
I mean, C++ doesn't ship with a range abstraction that's pleasant to use
 
3:50 PM
@DeadMG but it would introduce rather hardcore clutter
 
in such a fashion.
but you can produce your own and I have done and that specific aspect wasn't problematic.
 
@Jefffrey exactly.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's iterators being shit, not a core problem of the language.
 
well ranges are just a part of lazy eval
full-beta-reduction is the thing really.
 
@DeadMG lol, if you have the time to DIY everything ... :|
 
3:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, probably not in the right position to make choices that matters
 
@BartoszKP Arguably true, but again, iterators being shit isn't a core C++ problem, and when I'm writing my own code anyway, not having lazy evaluation does not bother me in the slightest.
because let's face it, in most situations, I will never write expressions that aren't evaluated.
 
@Jefffrey how close have you been following the evolution of, say, ECMAScript?
Have you seen the Harmony and ES7 proposals?
 
it's like checking for self-assignment, I mean, sure in theory you could optimize this case, but...
 
@DeadMG well yeah, I'm not into language X over Y argument. Just pointing out, that an argument that you can "write it yourself" is very weak :)
 
@DeadMG because you're used to writing imperative code, i.e. code "how to do stuff" instead of "what to do"
but I believe we discussed that before WRT FP vs IP
 
3:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell is just as imperative as C++, you just express your instructions a little differently.
you'd have to be something like PROLOG before arguing it's not really imperative.
 
@DeadMG no, the pure part can be extremely non-imperative
good pure haskell code rarely tells the machine what to do
it expresses equations
 
user3010322
I hate ray tracing. ._.
 
I see
so if I tell the machine to sort the list, I don't have to tell it how to sort the list?
 
user3010322
Let's do something fun.
 
I just have to say, "Every item less than the next item after it" and it sorts itself?
 
user3010322
3:55 PM
Let's make a DSP.
 
cause last I checked, Haskell's sort is not expressed that way.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what does ECMAScript have to do with anything? You know I've never had any experience with it. I've never said C++ is >!!!11!!! of all languages. Never. I've just said C++ is nice. And C++ is nice in the sense that I can feel the hard work the committee has put into the design of the language/standard library, and I respect them. That's it.
 
@DeadMG For me the difference between "take a list of numbers, sort it and print it" vs "take a list of numbers and print them in sorted order" is enough
 
Then, you wanna say C++ compilation model sucks? I agree.
 
@BartekBanachewicz They're equivalent.
 
3:56 PM
@Jefffrey you said that people behind JS aren't as competent as C++ commitee
 
"Sort the list" is implicit in "Print them in sorted order".
 
@DeadMG they're not. First is imperative algorithm. Second is a problem description.
 
since it has to be sorted before you can print them in sorted order.
 
@DeadMG Oh it's a very simple case, but it quickly gets more pronounced in a bit different case
@DeadMG yeah see that's the kind of thing you don't think about with FP that much
 
and if I had any problem where Haskell did not already contain a definition unlike sorting, I would have to tell the machine how to do it.
 
3:57 PM
of course there's no "border" between FP and IP
 
just like in C++.
 
it kinda blends, I agree
but in general, the feeling is that you express more in the equations, and less in the series of steps
and that changes the way you think about code and the way you write it
And lazy evaluation is just making that non-sequential approach a tad more intuitive and simple in some cases
> I feel like C++ is the only one who actually has people behind that knows what they are doing.
 
really? cause I've been looking at code that people like robot or xeo write and honestly, I haven't seen any great fundamental leaps over my own.
it's not like, when I was coding before and I was deriving all my classes from IReferenceCountable compared to what I'm doing today.
 
well, I meant Haskell code specifically.
 

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