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12:01 AM
one of my my lymph nodes is also swollen and calcified
it won't ever unswell
 
@Jefffrey I can't gamejam
 
but that's harmless
 
I tried to make games twice, but I can't think of anything according to themes
I do organize them on gd.se because yeah that doesn't require you to have any imagination LOL
 
What is a lymph node? I already tried cat stdcpp11| grep lymph
 
12:47 AM
I wonder if nymph nodes exist
those must be some pretty hot nodes
 
 
2 hours later…
2:41 AM
welp. Python 3.4 is awesome.
 
@DeadMG I wouldnt be surprised if that was due to not eating (much) ? /cc @Rapptz
 
3
Q: My supervisor treats me and my team as a "resource"

Rodolfo PerottoniI've been reading some e-mails from my supervisor and I've noticed that he always call me and my teammates "resources". For example, answering a manager's demand, he answered At the moment i don't have any resource available for completing this assignment. How can I approach him and tell ...

a 19 yo discovers he's an asset for his company and superiors don't care about feeding his ego
> How can I approach him and tell him in a good way that we are COLLABORATORS, and not just "RESOURCES"?
this reminds me of a high school colleague of mine
who refused to "get employed" and only wanted to "collaborate" on things
 
3:47 AM
high school colleague?
why does that not making sense?
 
4:31 AM
Terrible sleeping habits double go
 
4:47 AM
so quiet these a few days ...
 
@telkitty.exe We need more trolls! :P
 
USA.gov troll free number: 1-888-SMS-3300 (1-888-767-3300)
 
 
2 hours later…
7:06 AM
@Rapptz Hard lesson to learn.
Bookmarked for me to read when I'm feeling suicidal. :P
I mean Kick-in-the-butt-starter.
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
@Borgleader @ScarletAmaranth ^ I've reached the limit of my knowledge.
 
user3010322
I can't seem to get transparency to work properly. =/
 
user3010322
But, alas. At least it's rendering.
 
user3010322
If either of you have an idea about how the fuck transparency works in these kind of complicated rendering equations, let me know~
 
7:10 AM
Refraction is the change in direction of a wave due to a change in its transmission medium. Refraction is essentially a surface phenomenon. The phenomenon is mainly in governance to the law of conservation of energy and momentum. Due to change of medium, the phase velocity of the wave is changed but its frequency remains constant. This is most commonly observed when a wave passes from one medium to another at any angle other than 90° or 0°. Refraction of light is the most commonly observed phenomenon, but any type of wave can refract when it interacts with a medium, for example when so...
pretty much sums it up =/
 
lol
 
I mean, you shoot the ray inwards then back out (unless total internal refraction or wtv) and keep going just like reflection
the tricky bit is total internal refraction
 
@Borgleader If you have a generalized method, then I think it won't be that much.
 
user3010322
<_>
 
user3010322
You're all on crack. Or the equivalent. :D
 
user3010322
7:15 AM
Mmm. Computing the fresnel.
 
Its just another type of secondary rays, you've already got reflected rays
now you need refracted rays
 
user3010322
... Wow.
 
user3010322
What a user-friendly equation this is. <_>
 
what
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
7:18 AM
Look at it
 
user3010322
Look at that horribleness.
 
user3010322
Holy jesus christ.
 
looks fine to me
 
user3010322
So the equation for Rs is for refraction,
 
user3010322
and the Rp is for reflection?
 
7:19 AM
For now I would suggest skipping fresnel and mixing reflection and refraction half/half. Once you got refraction working then use fresnel to get correct results.
 
@ThePhD Just ignore the right-most part.
 
user3010322
@MarkGarcia I don't have cos(theta)t
 
user3010322
only cos(theta)i
 
user3010322
So I need te right most part.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader I'm not sure what you mean.
 
user3010322
7:20 AM
Reflection isn't exactly separate from refraction.
 
@ThePhD So, yeah, it'll be horrible. :P
 
why are we discussing high school physics :p
 
user3010322
Because it turns me on.
 
user3010322
... Yep, official lost. vOv
 
I <3 physics too!
 
7:25 AM
> The fraction of the incident power that is reflected from the interface is given by the reflectance R and the fraction that is refracted is given by the transmittance T.
> T = 1 - R
My suggestion is for now, arbitrarily decide that T = R = 0.5
 
Tantalizing...:
It's such a shame that I can't see who posted that comment and what the full message was. :D Apparently it's been deleted since
 
I've been rerolling quests for like 10 minutes
Still no 100 gold quest :(
 
@ThePhD did you see that post ^ it credits you, hope you don't mind my using it as an example... :| I couldn't (be bothered to?) to write it myself
 
T:R <- depends on the materal
 
@Rapptz Wrong room?
 
7:29 AM
nah
 
user3010322
@sehe I, uh. I'm not sure what you're talking about. o.0
 
user3010322
OH
 
user3010322
THE COMMENT
 
user3010322
Uh
 
user3010322
Sure, fine, it's public domain 'n' stuff, don't really mind.
 
7:30 AM
:)
@CaptainGiraffe ah I get it. this was likely your initial response, but you edited the "salaries" reference out after posting?
EEN WILDE RECHTER-VOUW VERSCHIJNT
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Is that from the Fresnel Wiki?
 
@ThePhD Yes in the Definitions and Power Equations section
anyway, off to bed
3:36AM T_T
 
user1804599
@sehe lol
 
Good moaning
 
user3010322
Oh.
 
user3010322
7:37 AM
@Borgleader Night.
 
user1804599
7:52 AM
lol
 
user1804599
Scala is amazing.
 
user3010322
Refraction.
 
user3010322
It's not working. ;~;
 
user1804599
scala> List(1, 2, 3).toSet()
res0: Boolean = false
 
@sehe I know, it's really annoying
 
user1804599
7:53 AM
toSet has no argument lists, so the compiler sees this as calling List(1, 2, 3).toSet.apply(()) where () is Unit, and apply is used for checking if the set contains the given element. The set is upcast to Set[Any] because Int and Unit are both subtypes of Any and then the operation is performed.
 
user1804599
scala> List(1, 2, 3).toSet
res1: scala.collection.immutable.Set[Int] = Set(1, 2, 3)
 
Please make your code selfcontained; It took me some time to figure out you had config = boost::program_options. — sehe 15 secs ago
 
I love your determination to answer questions :p
¬_¬ to work...
 
8:18 AM
You write lots of if or switch statements. — Barmar 1 min ago
lol
 
JBL
Good morning!
 
8:37 AM
This question is on-topic for google. — sehe 12 secs ago
 
user1804599
Would you consider unchecked (as in underflow) subtraction unsigned integers closed?
 
Actually I am Polish. :D I'll read that. — freakish 8 mins ago
Not sure if sympathetic or naive
 
user1804599
It looks good, but it needs more postfixins.
4
 
note to self... turn music down at start of day so I can ramp it up throughout.
 
user1804599
Damn.
 
8:43 AM
 
user1804599
Now I want an infix sausage.
 
somehow these things which shouldn't even be shown when I'm logged in end up in that bar for me o.O
 
@melak47 looks a bit like a rendering glitch, really. Might be Chrome's WebGL support with a confused graphics card
 
user1804599
Works on my machine. vOv
 
@sehe updating chromium fixed it :v
now I got a fresh batch of bugs to find! :)
 
8:48 AM
hiya
 
good day dear sir/madam
 
9:09 AM
@AlexM. ohai
 
user3010322
@Borgleader ;~; no matter how I implement it (even with fixed coefficients of 0.5 for both refraction and reflection), it goes horrendously wrong. Like, -stupendously- wrong. :c
 
user3010322
Ah, well.
 
user3010322
Such is life. Or something. Or other.
 
@rightfold i committed my arithmetic type to: github.com/gnzlbg/arithmetic_type
 
it can't be that hard o_0
 
9:14 AM
mourning
 
in case you want to take a look and destroy it! It still has some mistakes that I mention in the issues and some todo's, gonna fix those now :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you know if libc++ still uses the same ordering for tuple elements as when you wrote your tuple posts or if the situation improved?
 
why don't you just do a very simplistic version to start with @ThePhD just pass the ray through for normal background colour, and add some tint based on the amount of material you pass through.
then add a bit of reflection from the surface, may be factor in the angle at which you hit the surface contributing to what makes up the background colour.
ergh... shudders. Talk about UI, a damn side bar the pops in and out really far. and moves everything over as it pops open/close.
I think I need to start looking at another RSS reader option
 
user1804599
@gnzlbg ok
 
user1804599
@thecoshman That’s what she said.
 
@rightfold ooooh, dick joke!!!!
 
9:37 AM
@rightfold What do you mean by "closed"?
 
user1804599
That the result is in the same set as the inputs for all inputs.
 
thanks
I didn't get it
 
Well, unsigned - unsigned = unsigned, so yes?
 
cout << "\nDo you want to write new information? ("; SetColor(9); cout << "Y"; SetColor(10); cout << "/N)";
while (wait == 1)
{if (GetAsyncKeyState(VK_RIGHT)) {wait = 0;}
else if (GetAsyncKeyState(VK_RETURN)) {goto info;}}

system("cls");
I wonder what college taught him ^ TRWTF was the original formatting though: stackoverflow.com/revisions/22474899/1
 
9:55 AM
I was asked a very funny question by a guy that I'm helping with C++ yesterday
> If indeed we can use RAII to encapsulate ownership and then not write destructors anymore, why do people keep managing memory by hand?
I figure it was a good choice to start reviewing his knowledge in that area.
 
MUJKO PAHCHAN LO...ME HU DOOOOOOOOOOOOON
 
@Aaღirkhan what the fuck dude
 
@Aaღirkhan k
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because people are ignorant about anything that has happened in C++ land in the last 15 years (or more)?
 
@FredOverflow s/in C++ land // ?
 
@FredOverflow Yeah - as if destructors have sudenly gone out of fashion. Nobody told me:)
 
in other news, resharper is killing this machine :/
 
@Aaღirkhan 2 wickets in 5.2 overs for only 47 runs does not seem that bad? Not really into 2020, so I'm not that sure..
 
Yes It is
But It seems that pitch is really slow
or Dump
well let stop this other wise moderator will come and ban me :P
 
@Aaღirkhan Run rate is dropping.. 7.14 now.
 
10:07 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe, but it's especially true in C++ land. "Java has Garbage Collection, whereas in C++ you have to delete objects yourself." you still hear people say who have last tried C++ in the mid 90s.
 
@Aaღirkhan Why? It's not like you're posting/linking JS or PHP questions.
 
@FredOverflow I sometimes wonder if I am that terrible in programming when I hear statements like those
 
hmm
 
I mean those people clearly have no idea about C++
 
so let's carry on
 
10:08 AM
they represent the bottom end
 
@BartekBanachewicz Correct. They are the people equivalent of the C++ books where "STL" is the last chapter.
@BartekBanachewicz If you deliberately spend time in a programming language chat, you are probably already in the top 10% of programmers.
 
@FredOverflow okay, I'll be honest, I got a rejection from one of the jobs I half-applied to. (I think it might a recruiter's fault but still)
rejection is always a food for thought
 
Was it your dream job?
 
no, far from it.
 
Then who cares?
 
10:11 AM
@BartekBanachewicz People read stuff and just repeat it ad nauseum, whether it has merit or not, without trying anything. That kind of attitude is endemic in 'multithreaded'.
 
"Avoid singleton"? I like how that title starts! — FredOverflow 1 min ago
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is that a half-rejection?
 
@MartinJames haha, I guess.
 
@BartekBanachewicz maybe they'll take you on a half pay:)
 
@FredOverflow On one hand, I am not going to star crying over that, on the other I wouldn't like it if suddenly my skills were lower than required when the time for the dream job comes.
 
user1804599
10:14 AM
@FredOverflow lol libraries requiring default constructors.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How exactly did the interview process work?
 
@BartekBanachewicz If your dream job comes up, go for it at the interview; "I really want this job, but I can't demonstrate my skills fully in this interview. You already know I'm not a total moron, (try to keep a straight face here), so take me on as a short-term hire for a month and I'll show you what I can do. I'm sure you'll then be in a position to offer me a good position".
4
 
@FredOverflow it really didn't. I only talked with the recruiter, who of course could only talk in terms of buzzwords. She forwarded the data to them, and I was asked for some code later. I've picked my recent pedantic-C++ SO answer, and I got "the sample was too short and my old code on github is worse than they would expect" in response.
 
I don't even use github. Am I eternally screwed? :)
 
user1804599
 
10:19 AM
@FredOverflow No - a wise decision, as Banananana is now realizing.
 
@rightfold That was seven months ago.
 
@MartinJames heh. Too bad it won't work with my current dream job, which would send me overseas.
 
@MartinJames lol banana
 
Thalmic <3
(I haven't applied there yet)
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow :P
 
10:20 AM
Well they still didn't accept even my early dev access inquiry so I don't think I'd have a chance getting a job there :F
 
@rightfold And it was C#, a language I haven't touched since.
 
user1804599
C# is not good.
 
@BartekBanachewicz hrm, that sucks
 
@rightfold What is good?
 
kinda awkward if you have to start curating your github account before applying for jobs
 
user1804599
10:22 AM
Erlang is good.
 
I think I would simply link to my long move semantics answer and point out that if they don't hire me, they must be insane.
3
 
I don't put my code in github or any public repository. If I have to go to an interview, I take my working apps on a laptop and demonstrate them. An app that actually works well is more impressive than pages of source code that may, or may not, mean anything to an interviewer, (and may actually be crappy).
 
@jalf in my defense it was old crappy code. (I mean it's not like I have only the latest and greatest there)
 
@MartinJames interviewer might want to read your CV (and your code) before the interview
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, that's what I mean. It really sucks if you have to worry about your github account containing old code that you could do better today
 
10:25 AM
however links like github.com/me/my-helloworld-app aren't really impressive
 
@Abyx CV, no problem. Code - I can take some good examples. They want to see the crappy code for the app I demonstrated? "Sorry, it's company-confidential, and I take property rights and security seriously".
 
@Abyx sure, because you get a 404 when you try to follow them ;)
@MartinJames seriously? You'd apply for a programming position by saying "here's a working application. I won't show you the source code but please hire me to write source code for you"? O.o
 
^ +1
also it's hard to show a server back-end
 
@jalf I don't apply for programming positions. I apply for software development positions.
 
@jalf Hmpfh that was one of the points of having a github for me, to see my progress. Now if someone can't see the code was commited two years ago, is that my fault?
 
10:28 AM
@MartinJames "I won't prove that I can code, and I'm an insufferable snob about it too"
 
I guess the fact that I've improved vastly over the last two years might be a bit sucky, because for example I don't think that @Martin's code changed that much over the last two years
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, that is ass-backwards
 
@BartekBanachewicz why wouldnt it work then?
 
user1804599
You know.
 
user1804599
Parameterized namespaces would be so cool.
 
10:31 AM
@jalf Oh, I have plenty code to show interviewers. I can also describe how my apps work - how the data is stored, how the network protocol works, how the app state is saved/restored. I would not be so stupid as to demonstrate an app that I had written without being able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that I HAD actually designed, written, tested, debugged etc. it.
 
@rightfold like template <typename T> using namespace MyNS<T>; ?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
template<typename T>
namespace foo {
    struct bar { T x; };
}
 
@ArneMertz going overseas for a month's trial...?
 
@MartinJames But you don't want them to see the source code for the app you deemed good enough to demo to them?
 
user1804599
10:33 AM
Or, like, parameterized modules in Python. Would be cool.
 
@rightfold would it give some benefits besides implicitly saying "anything in here is a template <typename T>, if it actually uses T"?
 
> tapename
 
@BartekBanachewicz :P
 
@jalf No - because the source code belongs to a previous company I have worked for. Interviewers respect this because they don't want their own source code to be shown to their industry competition in two years time when I am doing another interview.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes, where is the big difference to go for a months trial where you are now?
 
10:36 AM
@MartinJames If I were an interviewer, I would see zero value in a demo of an application for which the source code is not available.
So sure, I wouldn't expect you to show company secrets from your previous job, but I would expect you to demo something to me that you wrote and for which I can see the code. If that means demoing a different application, then so be it.
If it means falling back to the hello world you wrote back when you were 12, then so be it
 
@jalf "OK, so you must contact company XXXX and negotiate with them for the rights to the code. I will not violate an NDA for an interview question".
 
@MartinJames or I could find a candidate who is able to demo something that he has the rights to
 
@jalf meaning you restrict your candidates to people who have time to code something meaningful in their spare time?
 
@ArneMertz The preparations for such a trip would take a few months :P
 
10:39 AM
I'm just pointing out that regardless of legalities and NDAs and whatever else, for an interviewer interviewing someone for a software development position, there is zero value in being shown an application the candidate claims to have built, if you can't see the source code.
 
@jalf I would just ask the person to code something ad-hoc
 
@jalf That would not be a job interview, that would be a merger/takeover meeting.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so it's basically not the overseas part, it's the out-of-town part?
 
@jalf That appears to be incorrect, IME.
 
@MartinJames wat
@BartekBanachewicz Yep, pretty much that
 
10:40 AM
@ArneMertz not really. Take visa, for example.
 
@jalf Your position appears to by unsupported by my experience.
 
@MartinJames Your experience is that there are people willing to hire you on that basis. That could just be because they're clueless. Or it could be because there were other factors that convinced them you were worth hiring
 
@jalf I can show them generic library code that I have written that is used in the apps, but I can't just hand over someone else's stuff.
 
But suppose I was interviewing you. What would I learn about you from seeing you demo an application that your current employer owns? Genuine question here. What, in your experience, is the value in that?
 
@jalf that you'll sell your employers' secrets for a better job! :p
 
10:43 AM
@MartinJames Why do you keep talking about "someone else's stuff"? Why would an interviewer give the slightest fuck about someone else's stuff? You don't have to show someone else's stuff because an interviewer would hopefully want to see your stuff
They're looking to hire you, not someone else
@melak47 no, the assumption here is that you demo the application (and have the permission to do so), but without showing any source code or company secrets
 
hehe
 
@BartekBanachewicz apply for visa to get a chance to get my dream job? done. What else? It's a dream job after all. If they employ you right away, you'd have to apply for visa anyways. And if you go for the month's trial, you should be sure you have at least a good chance they take you. So it's not a big investment.
 
Anyway, I don't think it's any surprise to anyone that individual interviewers/recruiters vary extremely widely in what they want to see from a candidate. So yes, it is quite likely that I would prioritize different things than the interviewers who have hired you, @MartinJames
 
There's the conundrum. You don't show them the source, they think you're bullshitting them. You show them the source, they think you are a security risk if you leave for a competitor.

If you demo the app, and can convince them that you had an in-depth knowledge of its internal workings, you can have it both ways.
 
but personally, I would feel I was wasting my time if I were being shown an application for which the source was unavailable
@MartinJames or you could demo something that you yourself have the rights to. or you could say "I'm sorry, my current employer owns everything I've ever written", and then code something on the spot instead. That is what I would expect a candidate to do
Most good coders have some code that they own the rights to. They write stuff in their free time (and they don't take jobs with absurd "we own everything you do in your free time" clauses). And if they don't, then I would go "ok, here's a small coding assignment for you. Spend a couple of evenings on this, then email it to me"
 
10:49 AM
@MartinJames why demo the app at all? Showing a nice GUI and convinving them that you know how to build the internal stuff imo does not correlate (much)
 
@jalf I could do that, yes. I'm not often asked to do it though, 'cos writing code is a small fraction of software development.
 
@MartinJames it's a pretty big part of competent software development. And small or big, it's an important fraction
But again different people look for different things when interviewing different candidates for different positions. I'm not saying your experience is invalid, just that if I were interviewing, what you're describing would come across as a total waste of time, something having literally zero value.
Obviously there are others who would be satisfied or impressed by it
 
Oh, I'm better than that. I can demo the GUI by putting the app into auto-test mode by editing the command-line in the icon. Start multiple copies of the client app on the laptop and show them connect up. Run tests. Show where and how the DB and config is stored in the filesystem, dempstrate disconnect fails and describe how they are handled in technical terms. Describe the interfaces and protocol. Open a couple of config files AFTER describing what will be in them.

There is no doubt that I know the app inside and out, without exposing a single line of proprietary source code.
 
@MartinJames And none of that would matter the slightest to me. In this hypothetical situation, I am not hiring someone to operate another company's application, I am writing someone to develop software
If I look at an application that you claim to have made, I have two questions: (1) did you make it? (2) is it well written? Maintainable? What's the code like?
And honestly, the second part is the important one
For the first part, I'd basically take your word for it, unless something else comes up that makes me suspect that you couldn't have made it
 
@jalf In that case, you should try to ensure that candidates can actually develop software, and not just generate source code.
 
10:56 AM
But I don't care if the software you're demoing works. I care if it is code I would want in my source tree.
@MartinJames If I just wanted an application that seems to work, I would just license the software from someone else. Presumably if I'm interviewing someone, it is because I care about the internals of the application. I want more than a functional application. I'd want the internals to be healthy, well-designed, maintainable, sane
And many, heck, probably most working applications do not live up to that. Hence, I am not impressed by a working application. I am impressed by a working application whose internals are also of high quality
afk, lunchtime!
 
@jalf I'd hire you as an interviewer :D the app I am working on works. But don't you dare touch anything vital. Way too fragile!
 
@jalf Well... to company management, high-quality apps are those that are delivered on-time and sell well. I appreciate your POV, and I like to think that my apps are indeed maintainable, extensible and expandable, (if only because I want more easy and profitable work expanding and enhancing them).
 
You can sell crap though.
Sales and Development have pretty much conflicting goals.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know, and all too often, I've bought it:)
 
@jalf you clearly are not a manager :P
 
11:08 AM
@thecoshman no, he's a tech lead
 
@BartekBanachewicz makes sense. His goals are good code, not shipped code
I think it's important though for people to feel so strongly about the quality of the product.
Managers are there to prioritise features and the likes. Devs are there to do it justice.
Sadly, trying to convince managers that shipping shit fast is not the biggest priority.
Nor do they realise you can't have everything now.
 
@thecoshman All too often, devs are there to do it injustice.
 
@MartinJames yeah, shit devs do tend to be working on shit products...
 
> Sara knew she wasn’t being yelled at. The entire mainframe team had pressed their caps lock keys once in 1972, and hadn’t touched them since.
 
o_0
 
11:14 AM
@thecoshman I've been puting up with absolute shit code and, more importantly, shit design, for longer than I can remember. I posted some code couple days ago - it was so offensive to the Loungers it got binned:)
 
why do you conflate 'manager' woth ' bad manager'?
 
we're oh so pure
 
Please stop this.
 
@MartinJames please do not turn Berlin into a 'who works on the shitter code contest'
 
It does everyone a disservice.
 
11:15 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Experience, probabubble..
 
oh hi @R.M. I was going to ask you about nonius, but I've figured it out and got my 100% for an assignment :)
 
@thecoshman OK, I promise, (unless I get drunk).
 
Doesn't matter.
 
A success story no less :)
 
Call it what it is and you won't be perpetuating it.
 
11:15 AM
AHA!!!!!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure, not all managers are bad. But managers have a different priority, and that may not always result in time being spent on quality code, it should for long term though.
@MartinJames like wise :P
 
Everyone is there to work together and a manager that cannot work together with the devs is a horrible one, no excuses.
And now we assume being horrible is what being a manager means and that makes it worse
 
It's conflicting interests. Hopefully though, good workers will be able to appreciate the other interests and incorporate them into how they work.
And yes, this applies to devs to.
A good dev has to sometimes accept that they do not have time for full solution, and will have to fall back to a bit of a quick hack. But hopefully that will be meet by a manager who is willing to give the dev time to finish to proper solution.
 
You seemed to think jalf is not a manager simply because he cares for quality.
 
uh "quick solutions" again
 
11:21 AM
That is fucked up. Period.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes jaded
o_0 damn. I've reach a point with my testing framework where part of my creation testing will require me to use a random value... so test might fail, just because random value was unlucky. Either that... or I need to add a way to determine how to find what a suitable value can be.
 
@MartinJames maybe you should apply for jobs at places that care about good code and good design, and screens for it at interviews? :p
@BartekBanachewicz me? Nah, just a regular dev
 
morning
 
hey
 
11:34 AM
being lead is fun. you get to delegate all the shit, and spend more time NIHing stuff
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes erm... it's kind of like create an XML node. Which code have an attribute that is unique for all nodes of that type. I want to avoid as much messing around with type specific handling as much as possible... especially as I have a very strong feeling, this is not a one of situation.
 
@MartinJames sure, and by showing a functional application, you give zero impression of whether it was delivered on time or on budget. The code could be an infernal mess which caused it to take 5 times as long as it should have. But the end result looks nice enough. Competent company management should care about more than just what the end result looks like. And therefore, should not be impressed by you showing something where the end result is nice
 
@jalf you don't do talks for other companies do you?
 
@thecoshman Nope. Should I?
 
What do penguins sound like?
 
11:38 AM
y'know
it seems to me that what Jalf is saying is "Cost/benefit analysis is only meaningful if you know the cost as well as the benefit".
which seems kinda basic logic to me.
 
@DeadMG Eh, that does seem like basic logic and I agree with it, but afaik what I'm saying is basically just "if you're hiring software developers you should care about their ability to develop software"
 
as opposed to?
 
the software they had an unknown hand in developing for unknown cost.
 
@Jefffrey is the server still down for you? I think it was a dns problem
 
11:43 AM
@Jefffrey As opposed to looking at the end result of some software development they were involved in. Being shown a working application and then taking it on faith that "because it looks nice, and seems to work, and the interviewee seems to have a good knowledge of it, its development process must have been sane and healthy and the code must be high quality and the software was delivered on time and on budget"
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah for the last 2 days
for a moment I thought you guys abandoned it
 
> 11843 minecraf 20 0 1216m 493m 8136 S 23.6 12.2 1235:30 java
 
lemme check
 
@jalf come over here and slap some heads around. Good pay I hear.
 
I don't have SSH from outside for security, but it appears to be online
dynmap is also working
 
11:44 AM
@BartekBanachewicz not from here
 
I do appreciate the humour of the situation though. The guy arguing that "nah, the source code doesn't matter, as long as I can demonstrate that the software works and that I was involved in its creation" is now complaining about being in an environment where he is surrounded by shitty code and shitty design. Whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by competent developers writing reasonable code. I wonder if that could be at all related to the hiring process :p
 
@Jefffrey what address are you using for it?
also it might appear down for some reasons, sometimes just clicking it works
 
hmm, maybe I should change my function arguments from T t to t := T.
 
t := T = 5
 
11:48 AM
@DeadMG void foo(t:=T){ T.doShit()} ?
 
@thecoshman I think T is a type
 
foo(t := T) { t.doShit(); }.
 
oh yeah
 
I already use ident := initializer for locals and members.
 
nah, if you are going to use := it should be Type := varaibleName
 
11:49 AM
nah
 
@thecoshman uh what
 
cosh clearly hasn't written any pascal
 
I don't like t := T because it appears that t is a compile-time type variable
 
just thinking that since I use var := initializer everywhere else, it seems odd to be using a different syntax for function arguments.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh no, nevermind. It was because I was running 1.8 apparently
so it might have actually been online for the past two days, for all I know
 
11:53 AM
@Jefffrey server was up, but as I said my no-ip host might have expired
I've clicked it back in though
 
@DeadMG I don't think that translates to parameter lists. Unless by foo(t := T) you mean that t defaults to a default-constructed T, or something like that...
 
@NikiC I already used type { var := int; } for member variables of type int, so it's not inconsistent to use var := int for parameters of type int.
 
@DeadMG Ah, I see. Can you also write type { var := int(42); } for example?
 
you used to be able to do type { var := 42; } but I disabled that feature for now.
 
@BartekBanachewicz have you noticed the odd thing with the no-ip renewing thing? The second numbers they ask you enter, can be what ever you fancy.
 
11:57 AM
anyone here into lounge and smooth jazz?
 
@thecoshman so like regular recaptcha?
 
@DeadMG So, why did you choose the var := type syntax for members?
 
@BartekBanachewicz except normal recaptchas you can enter wrong.
 
well I had var := initializer; only for function local variables
 

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