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9:00 AM
also wow
> "Microsoft [is] fully integrating Mono [an earlier .Net framework developed for platforms other than Windows] and Linux into their build environment and test matrix," Christie wrote in a blog post, "and [is] actively working with the community to make Mono a top class platform for hosting ASP.Net."
 
yeah gnashes teeth at MSVC
 
That's got to be some sort of record, not even comfy in my seat and I need to step away from rage.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Link?
 
@VáclavZeman here
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Oh, 3DS :o Don't have that stuff
 
9:08 AM
it has loads of games!
 
like mario
 
Xeo
k, then: I don't have the time!
 
sucks
that's why I don't sleep
more hours in the day!
 
Xeo
my work times don't really allow me your sleep schedule, though :P
 
9:16 AM
I work a pretty standard 9 AM to 5 PM.
 
Xeo
hm
 
@FredOverflow lol, I totally did not expect to see that :D
 
I guess trait objects/boxing is buggy then.
 
@BartekBanachewicz "3 #haskell projects among out last updated bitbucket repos" -- I do not understand the sentence. What is he telling us about Haskell and Bitbucket repos?
Are there Haskell conferences? I have seen plenty of videos about C++ recently thanks to CppCon. I want to watch something else now...
 
Xeo
9:37 AM
Hm, thoughts? /cc @LucDanton @Rapptz
 
simplified variant?
 
Xeo
ye
 
looks nice and simple
 
Xeo
I know the assignment operator is iffy, because it's not strongly exception-safe, but OTOH, VS2012 has no noexcept :s
 
my 2c would be to separate the operator= to copy and move
rather than passing by value
 
9:40 AM
@VáclavZeman he points out that his company is using haskell more and more. And yes, there's plenty of Haskell meetups
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Any specific reason?
 
hello guys
when should a question be "undeleted" if OP removed it? This was upvoted but got deleted anyway: stackoverflow.com/questions/26649341/…
 
@Xeo Never mind. I remembered wrong.
 
Xeo
I mean, it's a copy-paste job, so that's easily done
 
I remember being chewed out by someone for recommending the opposite (i.e. what you're currently doing) but nvm.
 
Xeo
9:45 AM
One thing I was thinking about was only destroying and recreating if this->m_isLeft != other.m_isLeft, and move-assigning in the case that both contain the same type, but eh, seems kinda random
Oh, I forgot to replace std::result_of with my version on FanIn
Oh fuck
FUCK
> error C4519: default template arguments are only allowed on a class template
I forgot how bad VS2012 was :<
> error C2893: Failed to specialize function template 'add_rvalue_reference<_Ty>::type std::declval(int) throw()'
uhm
 
is VS2012 result_of not SFINAE-friendly?
 
Xeo
nope
 
stupidity check, in Java, Type... args is the same as Type[] args, as in I could do a for loop like for(int i=0; i <args.length; i++) (can't just do a for-each as I need to know what index I'm on)
 
I don't like the name FanIn btw
 
Xeo
Gimme a better one :P It's called either or more general ||| (fanin) in Haskell
Can't call it Either, as that's the type name
 
user1804599
9:53 AM
> ((lambda (foo) (bar foo)) (baz))
 
Xeo
VS2012 apparently does not like my result_of implementation :<
 
@Xeo If I understand it correctly, how about visit?
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl I guess
Doesn't change the fact that VS is being a whiny bitch atm, though
 
VS doesn't like commas in decltype
like decltype(stuff, void()) fails
I think if I remember correctly
 
Xeo
and GCC 4.7 doesn't like void() around declval inside of decltype, IIRC
 
9:57 AM
Although visit may just take a callable object, like boost.variant
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl tbh I find that a bit annoying if you just wanna discriminate on-the-fly somewhere without writing a full functor beforehand
 
@Xeo You can use some make_overload() thing with lambdas
 
user1804599
@Rapptz maybe they parse it as a function call and then say that decltype must have one argument :D
 
Xeo
Sure - still annoying, and remember, VS2012 has no variadic templates anyways.
 
Yeah
 
sbi
10:00 AM
> Some people will always write FORTRAN/C/PASCAL/Haskell, no matter what language they're currently write code in.
 
time to reset wifi
 
Xeo
I wonder if I should add non-const versions of Visit/OnLeft/OnRight, so you could potentially steal the contained value
 
sbi
Oops, @Jerry, what are you doing here at this time of the day? Don't you need to go to bed?
 
Xeo
@sbi I'm just taking the name vOv
 
sbi
@Xeo FWIW, I had a brief look at that code, and from that template's name, I have no idea what it does.
 
Xeo
10:02 AM
Really?
 
sbi
No, I am lying, of course. I mean, why would I tell the truth if that would support my argument?
 
Xeo
Iunno, I just find it hard to believe that "either" is not clear.
Would OneOf make it clearer?
 
The name is intuitive to me, but probably only because I have some (very blunt) knowledge of Haskell
 
Xeo
tbh, I'd think basic knowledge of the English language would at least give you an idea of what the class does.
 
Ok I think I'd probably understand it anyway, but I wouldn't know where to use it
 
Xeo
10:06 AM
@sbi Oh wait, are you talking about FanIn?
Or Either in general?
 
also why is it called fanin in Haskell?
it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it reminds me about graphs
 
Xeo
analogous to fanout (&&&)
 
you know what I'm going to ask right now
 
Xeo
nah
gimme a sec
 
sbi
@Xeo FanIn
 
10:08 AM
I just wonder why fanin and fanout if this has nothing do to with graphs
 
Xeo
@sbi Oh, okay, gotcha
 
@TonyTheLion ooh
 
I don't know what fanin does in Haskell does, so its a guess
 
must be
 
Xeo
10:10 AM
&&& :: (a -> b) -> (a -> c) -> (a -> (b, c)) -- takes one value (a) and fans it out into two (b, c)
||| :: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> ((Either a b) -> c) -- takes two potential values (a, b), and gives you a single one (c)
 
but the fan-in is still a number
oh
 
@Xeo I don't see how fanout works :|
 
Xeo
Yeah, it's related to the circuit - there's also a reason the operators are &&& and ||| :)
 
@TonyTheLion you give it two functions and that returns you a function which applies its argument to both and puts the results into a pair
 
the split operation on a must be defined somehow for this to work, no?
 
Xeo
10:12 AM
@TonyTheLion &&& and ||| are function combinators - in the case of &&&, it fans out, i.e., produces more than it gets (passes a to both functions, and has b and c)
 
@AndyProwl ah I see
 
Xeo
in the case of |||, it fans in, and produces less than it gets (passes either a to the first or b to the second function, and has just c)
 
I see the relation to circuitry now:
> Fan-out, a related concept, which is the number of logic inputs that a given logic output drives.
 
Xeo
Basically, &&& is combine and ||| is merge
hm
Merge might be a good name
 
> 'Far Cry 4' Dev: Nobody Cares About 1080p forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/10/28/…
lol, Ubisoft is like "30fps is better than 60fps" at first
and then this
 
Xeo
10:21 AM
@Rapptz k, tried to remove the , void() part, still "failed to specialize declval" :<
 
:<
 
Xeo
wait a fucking second
THAT'S JUST SFINAE FAIL!
what
waaaat
I don't get it
namespace EitherDetail
{
template<class T> T&& declval();

template<class CallSig, class = void>
struct result_of{};

template<class F, class A1>
struct result_of<F(A1), decltype(declval<F>()(declval<A1>()), void())>
{
    typedef decltype(declval<F>()(declval<A1>())) type;
};
} // EitherDetail::
> error C2064: term does not evaluate to a function taking 1 arguments
:<
Can someone sanity-check me here?
Great, of course GCC and Clang have no problem with this
AARRRRGH
 
@AlexM. Lolwut? Far Cry 3 had some amazing graphics for pc, how can he say this?
 
I wonder if there are any people saying "Ubisoft is right, 30fps and 720p is better than 60fps and 1080p!" :\
that'd be sadder than Ubisoft making the claims
@Nooble yep FC3 really looked great
 
A lot of people believe this, especially esteemed console gamers.
 
Ell
10:33 AM
How much do consoles cost nowadays?
 
they're cheap compared to high end PC hardware
 
Ell
They aren't high end though
How much do they compare to low end PC hardware?
 
About half a thousand USD or less
 
I don't know, my mid-range GPU was 1/2 of a PS4's price, and mid-range is the only way to get smooth 1080p at high details gaming
low end doesn't cut it
(excepting high end ofc)
you can't build a gaming PC in a PS4's budget that's for sure
 
Ell
I mean for an equivalent experience
A PS4 isn't gaming PC standard
 
10:37 AM
@AlexM. Not in /v/.
Incidentally, all my Wii U games are 1080p 60fps (some 720p but 1080 upscaled).
But I have no PS4 games at 1080p 60fps atm.
 
The PS4's GPU is equivalent to that of a GTX480
 
@Ell a PS4 is not equivalent to a low end PC
 
Ell
Its lower?
 
no, I already said
it's comparable to a mid range gaming PC
 
Ell
Do you think?
 
10:39 AM
yes
 
No.
 
If you go ahead and take a look at www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace, they have a build on their sidebar called "Console Crusher" a 400 dollar build
 
It's pretty low end.
 
anyway, what's the relevance of this question?
the root problem is that consoles cap PC gaming experience
the high end PC gaming market is affected by this
 
@Rapptz Nevertheless it's a bit more powerful.
 
10:41 AM
pcmasterrace subreddit is bad mmkay
it suffers a stability problem w.r.t. parody
 
Circlejerk everywhere...
 
hell, even the mid range market is affected by this
I didn't buy a GTX 760 to play games capped at 720p
 
You're buying the wrong games.
I have literally never seen a PC game capped at 720p.
 
you mean, today's AAA games?
 
Ell
I bought a gtx560 Ti CU II
 
10:42 AM
Bullshit m8.
AAA games may be unoptimised garbage but they're not 720p on PC.
 
Ell
And I don't even game
 
And console games are expensive compared to PC games. Also, we don't have to pay for an online pass
 
Wii U online is free.
Most of its games are exclusive to the console though.
 
@Rapptz it was more about the direction Ubisoft is taking and the chance for other devs to follow suit
 
Nintendo is a different story.
 
10:44 AM
Nintendo is a pretty separate thing tbh
 
Why?
 
because there are no Nintendo Wii U games ported to PC
Nintendo's games don't affect the PC market
 
I see.
@AlexM. Ubisoft's stance is retarded and I'm pretty sure a majority of gamers think so too. The only people who will buy it are the people who like their games to be movies.
Which hopefully is a trend that dies soon.
 
@Nooble yeah, that's one issue with new consoles imo too
10 full priced AAA games bought at release cost more than the console itself wtf
 
I don't know about the hardware, but games-wise, consoles run it on the lowest specs possible. LinusTechTips made a video about this very thing. They couldn't underclock a GTX 480(5yr old GPU) to perform 30 fps at 720p.
 
10:46 AM
and their prices get lowered really slowly, unlike PC titles (see Steam)
 
Used games are like <$20
It's a pretty bad argument tbh.
Even old 'new' games are <$30ish
 
ew used games
the only used games that I buy are really old titles that I want to let sit on my shelves :(
 
@Nooble Looking at specs is typically the wrong way to look at it with consoles.
 
And Steam usually has no DRm
 
speaking of used games... or rather not used
 
10:48 AM
Steam does have DRM.
 
I finally found a sealed copy of Dungeon Lords Collector's on eBay for really cheap
 
user1646075
Hey guys. I never buy console games new. always wait until they're like 1/2 price at least! I'm such a cheapskate.
 
It's the definition of DRM.
 
going to get it tomorrow or on Saturday
 
no DRM is GOG.
 
10:48 AM
yeah Steam is DRM on its own
technically, if your account disappears, all of your games disappear
 
If you change regions on Steam, (some of?) your games are disabled too.
 
only region-free games might still be enabled in that case
 
Also, Steam practices no DRM. You can share any game you want by downloading the game on their computer through your account. Steam is just a better platform IMO. Steam sales are gr8 m8 8/8
 
a lot of games are region-free though, so that might not affect many gamers
 
@Nooble That's not what no DRM means m8.
If Steam revokes or bans your account your games are gone.
 
10:51 AM
you can't really run games separately of steam
 
If Steam disappears for some reason, your games are gone.
 
even in offline mode, you still have to log in to Steam at least once
and you still have to have Steam installed
 
I've only gotten Offline Mode to work during one vacation trip
the others it didn't work
 
I wonder what Valve would do if it was risking to go bankrupt or if it was going bankrupt
how would it cope with gamers wanting their games
 
@Nooble you... don't actually know what DRM is, do you?
 
10:55 AM
I meant sharing games as a seperate point...
 
@AlexM. it... wouldn't. Why do you think they would? When companies go bankrupt, their customers are generally fucked. Not being able to fulfill your obligations is effectively what bankruptcy means
 
I don't think they'll ever be bankrupt.
Or as the US likes to call it..
The "too big to fail" theory asserts that certain corporations, particularly financial institutions, are so large and so interconnected that their failure would be disastrous to the greater economic system, and they therefore must be supported by government when they face potential failure. The colloquial term "too big to fail" was popularized by U.S. Congressman Stewart McKinney in a 1984 Congressional hearing, discussing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation's intervention with Continental Illinois. The term had previously been used occasionally in the press. Proponents of this theory believe...
 
@Nooble you mean, Steam has no DRM because I can share everything by letting others use my credentials to log in to my account and play my games despite this being against their TOS?
 
(yeah I know Steam isn't a bank so it doesn't work that well but yeah)
It's actually not against their TOS.
 
@Rapptz are you saying that if Valve were to go bankrupt, they'd get a government bailout?
 
10:57 AM
They explicitly allow it.
 
@Rapptz [citation needed]?
 
@jalf No, I meant both as specific points.
steam has no Drm
 
@jalf Family Share feature.
 
@Rapptz That is not what he said though. He talked about letting others log in to your account.
@Nooble Steam is DRM. That is literally all it is.
DRM = Digital Rights Management. That means they control your access to your games. Whether or not they allow you to share your games, they set the rules. They determine if and when and how you can launch your games, and if and when and how you are allowed to share them with others
 
Ell
steam is just a convenient way to use DRM
 
10:59 AM
yeah
 
Heck, if you use Family Sharing, you may notice that others can't play games in your library while you're playing a game yourself. That is DRM: Valve decides that "no, at this time, others do not have the right to play your game"
 
It's not DRM free -- it is DRM. It's just not obtrusive DRM.
 
Right.
 
@jalf yes, but they could at least let people download their games or something and provide a pseudo-patch that simulates steam
 
Is there even a game on XBox 1 that runs @ 1080p?
 
11:06 AM
no, but just wait until Limbo 2 gets released!
/joke
anyway, what I wanted to say before the network went bonkers
oooh Valkyria Chronicles is coming to PC
 
@jalf Wait... Yes this is exactly what I meant. Sorry, I'm currently on a train using mobile. It cuts signal a lot, which causes some of my messages not to be sent.
 
really curious about this one
heard it's an amazing JRPG
also the rest of the FF XIII titles are going to be released on PC in 2015
I don't mind this at all <3
 
user1804599
Yum
 
user1804599
Microwaved ham–cheese croissant.
 
Hot pockets?
 
11:22 AM
@rightføld ew
@jalf it also sounds fair to me. You paid for one person to play that game, hey are making it easy to share that game a bit, but not to the extent that you have basically two fully licences.
 
Xeo
@rightføld nice
 
11:42 AM
@AlexM. and who would fund that effort?
Good luck trying to convince the creditors in this scenario that whatever value is left in Valve should be spent trying to remove the DRM from all their customers' games
(also, good luck convincing all the game publishers that they should permit Valve to just yank out the DRM from their games)
@thecoshman sure. I'm not saying it's unfair, just that it is quite clearly a form of DRM
 
@jalf with out any doubt.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I suspect you are going to get defaulted to not parsing anyway.
 
nobody seems to need my support today, and there are no new features requested right now, except for some minor todos set by me
I think I'll spend the day watching cppcon videos
that sounds like a good idea
now if only they didn't filter youtube :(
the speed is painful
actually, I think I'll just download the videos themselves; random youtube converters aren't filtered so I can download with 4+ MB/s from those
 
prove that for all ints k, if k > 1, then k^2 + 2k + 1 is composite: (k+1)(k+1) should seem an obvious answer, right?
 
Why is std::hex not sufficient to hexpresent uint8_ts? Still taken as chars unless I cast to (e.g.) uint16_t.
 
12:00 PM
@OllieFord because char and unsigned char have overloaded insertion operators as characters.
In short... Because.
90% of the time it's what you want, and the rest, CelebrateCPlusPlus
 
@sehe egh.. makes sense.. but.. why can't it just do what I want it to do -_-
 
@OllieFord no PL has that feature yet.
 
@corvid I would think so
@sehe hehe
 
12:13 PM
morning
@Rapptz did you put any more thought in if defaultfloat is needed?
 
no
 
@sehe You know that feeling when you posted a long answer with many standard quotes and fear that there is a considerable amount of mistakes in it?
 
@Loopunroller Yeah. I usually remove it or add warnings (which usually leads to downvotes. Sometimes I get the idea that SO favors assholes talking assertively from their asses (semi-Vlads))
 
@sehe Well, I'm not as unsure about what I wrote that I would delete it. I also already got four upvotes and don't want to loose them >:] (I just don't want to get sandbagged by T.C., dyp or hvm)
 
Xeo
"Hm, why the heck is this always the max value?! ... oh... std::max instead of std::min..."
 
12:27 PM
Story of my life
 
Btw, can anyone persuasively explain why std::max should return the second element in case of equality? Total strict ordering and shit?
 
Xeo
it should?
 
According to some guy.
.... whose name I forgot. There was a paper and a late SO question though.
 
Still cool
@Xeo well, for portability, something should be chosen by the specs (imagine returning references).
Hmm Are references even supported currently. open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2007/n2199.html
Mar 30 '12 at 21:28, by Tony The Lion
Type this into google and press enter: (x^2+((3 y)/2-(x^2+abs(x)-6)/(x^2+abs(x)+2))^2)-36
I fail at quoting. Still "still cool" though
@Mysticial I won :) We both lost
Jul 25 '13 at 21:25, by sehe
@StackedCrooked I always mix up my min and max even if I know I will.
That was what I was looking for
 
Xeo
It's confusing. :< You need min if you want to cap at a maximum, and max if you want at least some minimum
 
12:37 PM
clip(x, lower, higher)
 
Xeo
clamp, actually
 
both are used
clamp is probably more common though
 
12:50 PM
Do C++ exceptions track all the way back up the call stack until caught?
 
@Xeo Write ns::at_least and ns::at_most instead.
 
@OllieFord or until meet throw() or noexcept
 

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