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Ell
9:00 PM
Man, there are flies just roasting in my light :O
 
@sehe Making all what up now
@Ell Tasty!
 
@DeadMG that! and that! :)
 
Ell
Well this conversation is making me up I must say
 
I’ve had this message several times daily for months now. What the fuck?! “Google+ The app is currently unreachable.”
@konradrudolph The NSA is rolling out a new release of PRISM?
 
@Xeo I never even owned a Sega console. I was on the winners' side during the third and fourth wars.
 
Xeo
9:04 PM
I got a Sega MegaDrive (IIRC) as a present, with Sonic 1, 2 and Sonic & Knuckles
Best present evar
 
Ell
Hmm not sure if to use inheritance or not
have two identical structs but one has an alpha value
should the second inherit the first?
@Xeo I had one of those I think
 
@Xeo Weren't those the only good games on there?
 
@Ell Compose?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel I sooo didn't care back then
 
user1804599
9:06 PM
Was playing with some I/O, came to this. :P
 
@Xeo Tss tss.
 
Ell
@DeadMG Why?
It's RGB and ARGB structs
 
@Ell Because inheritance is shit and composition isn't
 
Xeo
I mean, c'mon, I was what - 7? 8?
 
Ell
@DeadMG why?
I might as well not do anything if I need to compose
it's not worth it
 
9:07 PM
@Xeo I was 8 when Ocarina of Time came out. I didn't even have a good grasp of English. Boy was that game hard.
 
Xeo
I think the guy that gave me the Sega also had an N64 with OoT
He was playing that all the time when he was over
 
One of my friend is currently playing the 3DS remake. Turns out he never tried the original.
Went in the Shadow Temple without the Lens of Truth. Talk about hard mode.
 
Xeo
Never played it either
 
@Ell That's... complicated, but the short is that if you inherit, you can get all sorts of unpleasant surprises when either base or derived changes, whereas composition protects you.
 
9:09 PM
You should. It's still good.
 
Xeo
Private inheritance!
 
Not as much as it was when it came out, though. The graphics haven't aged very well, and the design is a bit obtuse.
 
Xeo
Eh, I don't care about graphics
 
Ell
I started OOT on an emulator when I went on holiday and it crashed and I lost everything xD
 
@Xeo IMO, some kinds of graphics are good enough, and others aren't.
 
9:10 PM
@Xeo Congrats man. You're the man.
 
@not-rightfold looks usable. Don't understand how 'read' is supposed to yield an 'it' though
 
for example, OOT has fine graphics now, really... but if you ever go back to try and play the original System Shock, you'll see what I mean.
 
@Xeo You say that, but I'm sure you cringe when you see an ugly game.
 
user1804599
@sehe It may read less than what was asked for (i.g. EOF/EOS/EOB).
 
user1804599
it is always in the range [begin, end].
 
Ell
9:13 PM
@DeadMG I found that with the original rainbow 6
I used to be able to play it, but since playing new graphics I find it extremely difficult to make out shapes
that might be because of a new tv though
 
@not-rightfold mmm. presupposing known input stream size?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel eh, show me something "ugly" then
 
Bubsy 3D (also Bubsy is 3D in Furbitten Planet) is a platform video game developed by Eidetic and published by Accolade and Telstar for the PlayStation video game console. Designed by Michael Berlyn, it was released on October 13, 1996 in North America and in August 1997 in Europe. It is the fourth and final game in the Bubsy series, starring its eponymous protagonist. It is one of the first 3D platform games, though with limited movement. The game's complete name is a parody of Forbidden Planet, a 1956 sci-fi film. A Sega Saturn version was planned but was cancelled. The game was very po...
 
user1804599
@sehe You pass in two iterators and it fills the range for as far as it can.
 
@Xeo Duke Nukem 2
 
user1804599
9:14 PM
Tomorrow I’m going to implement multireaders, multiwriters and reader and writer iterators.
 
@Xeo System Shock.
 
user1804599
I’ve never implemented iterators before.
 
@not-rightfold You don't want to. Use a range design.
 
Also, Superman 64.
 
Xeo
9:14 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Saw that on JonTron :P
 
@not-rightfold how is the returned iterator any more useful than a bool '!good()' then?
@DeadMG not for streams, surely
 
user1804599
@sehe You know how much data to read from the buffer if you gave in a buffer.
 
@sehe As far as I've been able to tell, there is little meaningful difference between a stream and a range of bytes.
 
user1804599
std::array<char, 1024> buffer;
auto it = reader.read(buffer.begin(), buffer.end()); // woops! reads only 10 bytes!
process_buffer(buffer.begin(), it);
 
user1804599
With just a Boolean you can’t tell what the “new end” would be.
 
user1804599
9:16 PM
Nor can you simply discard the data if you couldn’t fill the entire range, because the user may need the data.
 
Anyway. Ugliness in games is one of those "hard to define, but you'll know when you see it" kind of thing. It's also incredibly subjective.
 
@not-rightfold ah. delicious strange wordings then. so it was the output iterator. Thanks for clarifying
 
@EtiennedeMartel I agree. Fundamentally, a game is unplayably ugly if you can't parse the screen's contents.
 
@not-rightfold Duh ^
 
@Ell Half the problem there is the incredibly bad choice of colour pallette.
 
user1804599
9:17 PM
@sehe read takes two output iterators, write takes two input iterators.
 
@DeadMG Yep, because then it gets in the way of the gameplay.
Crappy UI is also another factor.
 
Ell
@DeadMG yeah. And the super repeating textures
 
@EtiennedeMartel stuff like OOT has an almost-free pass there because of the colour schemes.
 
@not-rightfold yeah, I get it :/ So there is no such thing as the stream iterator in the API. Mmm. Now I'm using confusing terms
 
user1804599
However, tee_reader takes an iterator that is both an input and an output iterator. At least, it does at the moment. May change that.
 
user1804599
9:18 PM
template<typename Iterator>
Iterator read(Iterator begin, Iterator end) {
    auto last_read = reader->read(begin, end);
    writer->write(begin, last_read);
    return last_read;
}
 
user1804599
Also hehe s/last/one_past_last/.
 
I guess, as far as std::[io]stream_iterator<> is a "stream iterator", it goes. I'd just call it "output iterator" or "input iterator" because the fact that it's tied to a stream is immaterial
 
@DeadMG I like colorful stuff.
 
@not-rightfold I always just call it last. Convention
 
Not that gray-and-brown bullshit so common in late 2000s AAA titles.
 
user1804599
9:20 PM
@sehe Entire sauce is here, by the way (if you’re interested).
 
@not-rightfold grrr. I was just copying the clone URI. So many slow clicks extra now! Might through chat history instead :/
 
@EtiennedeMartel I totally agree.
 
user1804599
@sehe Haha.
 
user1804599
(The idea was shamelessly stolen from Go’s I/O library, by the way.)
 
What I especially dislike is when so called "photorealistic" graphics are gray as fuck.
Real life is full of colors.
It's not gray, like in GoW, or brown, like in CoD, or blue, like in BF3.
 
Xeo
9:23 PM
@not-rightfold s/end/last/, s/auto last_read/last/, s/last_read/last/
 
@DeadMG If your stream is connected to a file that nobody else is sharing, that's probably true. If it's connected (for example) to a socket that may be broken at any time, or the output of some process that may terminate at any time (, etc.) then it can be quite a bit different -- specifically, that when you create the iterator/range object, you have no way of guessing where/when the end will occur.
 
user1804599
And I have no idea what to do WRT to adapters like tee_reader and reader_writer and memory management. Currently they don’t own but that I could imagine that would be annoying with GC.
 
@not-rightfold anyways, #1: better exceptions :)
 
@JerryCoffin Input ranges always have that limitation- that you don't know where the end is.
 
@DeadMG Well, not always -- not (for example) when it reads from an std::array (with size fixed at compile time).
 
9:25 PM
@JerryCoffin That's not an input range, it's an RA range.
 
user1804599
@sehe std::system_error ftw.
 
user1804599
But yeah I guess.
 
@DeadMG Fair point. I guess I intuitively don't really consider Input Ranges as fully 'equal' Ranges, yet.
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::system_error'
  what():  Bad file descriptor
Aborted (core dumped)
@not-rightfold ^ Might have something to do with the average linux box not coming with haha.log preinstalled
 
user1804599
@sehe ENOENT; directory doesn’t exist.
 
@sehe that dude is quite the character
 
user1804599
9:28 PM
haha.log need not be present; O_CREAT.
 
What's an stl::vector?
 
@not-rightfold Well, it does only fail with E_BADF
 
user1804599
Because open returns -1, which is not a valid file descriptor.
 
@Jefffrey a common misnomer for the thing you expect. Don't get all Tomalak about it :/
@not-rightfold You mean, you don't have error checking in the first place. Different story.
 
user1804599
Use io::detail::safe_syscall(&::open, "…", O_WRONLY | O_CREAT, 0666).
 
9:30 PM
s/You need better exceptions/You need error handling/
@not-rightfold s/safe_// :)
 
errors, schmerrors, who needs them?
 
@sehe Ok, I was not sure about fixing it, that's all :)
 
user1804599
@sehe The error is in main.cpp, not the actual I/O library.
 
@Jefffrey Oh. Too often people get all worked up about the name
 
user1804599
file_descriptor_writer doesn’t own the file desciptor. Not sure if that’s good but yeah I can always change it.
 
Ell
9:33 PM
Ahh cut myself :( :o
 
user1804599
 
@Ell erm... what were you doing ? ...
 
user1804599
@sehe cutting himself.
 
@EtiennedeMartel He's cooler than I thought originally.
 
9:36 PM
argh... another need for shared_ptr :(
 
@Rapptz What did you think originally?
 
I thought he was a cool guy who did music.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Resist the temptation!
 
@Rapptz So now he's an even cooler guy who does music?
 
Basically.
 
9:37 PM
I thought his beard kinda gave it away.
The longer the beard, the cooler you are.
 
@Xeo But I need to keep it alive :(
 
@not-rightfold ba-dum-tsshh
@EtiennedeMartel Darn. And I just shaved. For orderly appearance in the lion pit tomorrow
 
@sehe The what?
 
8 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I do appreciate a sentence: C++ is a horrible language. It’s made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it. And I don't like to be rather a substandard one myself. It's nonsense arguing with you. — Hongxu Chen 10 mins ago
^ /cc @TonyTheLion
12 hours ago, by sehe
Time for shave. I look like a gorilla and tomorrow's gonna be the first day in the new office.
 
Well, well, well!
 
user1804599
9:41 PM
Will, will, will!
 
I think I like a first album from NIN since Fragile. Hesitation Marks sounds decent.
 
@sehe Oh. That kind of pit.
 
@sehe so yeah... finished taking on your feedback. That last section on 'representation', think I need to rethink it a good bit.
 
His favourite game is LTTP.
And he hates the ice temple like me.
:D
 
You and him are made for each other.
 
9:46 PM
We are. No homo.
 
Tss tss.
 
:)
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Worst song ever.
 
@thecoshman I think it's a bit of a buzzword. I sense "they" just wanted a snazzy name that implicitely spelled "WE'RE NOT XML SLAVES!" - use whatever representation is common in the domain
 
9:47 PM
@not-rightfold I like it.
 
At least by now it gets a bit boring
 
user1804599
I do not like it.
 
Hm. I have Thomas was alone in my Steam library. Never played it.
 
user1804599
Ugh typing with only one hand sucks.
 
Ell
@sehe shaving :P
I think I need a new razor. I'm not very good at this whole shaving thing :/
 
9:48 PM
@TemplateRex I pity his gf. His former - and possibly future (though to a much lesser extent: they could have had a little bit of a hunch)
 
user1804599
Cannot use my left hand since it's full of paprika powder.
 
@Ell Oh good. Buy "aluin". It's cheap and effective. No clue what it's called in English
 
@not-rightfold You could wash it.
 
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel With my tongue. :3
 
People!
 
Ell
9:50 PM
@sehe I can't buy one until I'm 18 >.<
 
user1804599
Person!
 
Ell
Crazy, right?
 
user1804599
@Ell A what? A dildo?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ah. I'm off to bed. 10 minutes to twelve. That should be better for an important day
 
@sehe I think I got a bit caught up on the extension thing.. need to cut it down to basically saying "Files extensions in URIs are ~wrong~, you request a ~representation~ of data, and that can be sent in any file format" (more or less)
 
Ell
9:50 PM
@not-rightfold I can buy a dildo silly. A razor.
 
user1804599
Why is tomorrow important?
 
@Ell So young.
 
And I thought Radek was the youngster here.
 
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel You sure do like young boys, don't you?
 
9:51 PM
 
@not-rightfold I prefer young girls.
2
 
@Ell o_0 slavery is Illegal in most countries I know off...
 
user1804599
@sehe A block of coke!
 
Ell
@jerry Haha that is my kind of humour, what is this off?
 
Xeo
Smooth just approved of Bronies
 
9:52 PM
@thecoshman Or maybe just ignore that bit. I suppose the representation is in the interface contract, or possibly in the meta-data (but who calls a webservice that might return JSON one time, and Xml the other?)
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Doesn’t mean you can’t do it.
 
@not-rightfold Scroll up
 
Ell
@not-rightfold tomorrow is important because I'm going to my female friends house and we are home alone for 5 hours!
 
@not-rightfold Pirates should know
 
Ell
9:53 PM
We're gonna play scrabble first, then ramp up the naughtiness with a game of chess
 
user1804599
@sehe how far on a scale from 0 to $('body').height()?
 
lol
 
@not-rightfold Opaque box hides what's inside. Instead of a block of coke, it could just about as easily be a cock of [a] bloke.
 
user1804599
@Ell Five hours of watching her paint her toe nails and looking at naked boys in a magazine.
 
@not-rightfold A few parsecs only. Looks for quotes. And 'shaving'. It's prolly on this page. Scroll up more and you'll find the originals. And scroll up a few weeks and you get the context. (slavery!)
 
9:55 PM
@sehe well that's the point, in theory a web service can do that. It responds with meta-data to say what format the data it is giving you is in. I think it's something to point out, that as part of your request you do not say what format you want that data in, it's up to the server (for the most part)
 
@thecoshman The question was "who uses it" :/ RESTful != STRESSful
 
But there is also the fact that when you ask for a resource, you are not given it, you are given a representation of it, a mock copy if you will
 
user1804599
Oh well.
 
user1804599
I just guess it’s about Ell’s new girlfriend.
 
user1804599
And if not then fuck it.
 
9:56 PM
> "fuck it" - the verdict
 
user1804599
I wanna play billiards right now. Fuck sleeping and work.
 
Ell
Ah she's not my girlfriend
 
user1804599
Me neither.
 
Why not?
 
Ell
@not-rightfold no! You should sleep and work. Its good for you :)
 
user1804599
9:56 PM
Billiards is also good for me.
 
Ell
@Jeffrey I'm not into girlfriends at the minute
 
Actual billiards?
 
@Jefffrey It's your fault!
 
Ell
I want something more casual
 
as in not just snooker or pool?
 
9:57 PM
@thecoshman Carom
@thecoshman Granpa stuff, yes :0
 
@sehe 'hipster'
 
@Ell I see. (my name has 3 f's by the way)
 
Ell
Ooh thanks didn't spot that haha
 
:) night everybody
 
user1804599
@thecoshman All those hipster grandpas with their shiny glassless glasses.
 
9:59 PM
@Xeo <3
 
user1804599
@Xeo I wouldn’t be surprised if you wouldn’t approve of a delicious plate full of brownies right now.
 
12:00am - bye guys
 
@sehe Good morning.
 
user1804599
My colleague pronounces “brony” as “browny.” It’s funarious.
 
user1804599
Goodbye my lover.
Goodbye my friend.
You have been the one.
You have been the one for me.
 
10:02 PM
@sehe Ah, it seems I was think of English Billards
 
user1804599
Carom billiards, sometimes called carambole billiards or simply carambole (and in some cases used as a synonym for the game of straight rail from which many carom games derive), is the overarching title of a family of billiards games generally played on cloth-covered, pocketless tables, which often feature heated slate beds. In its simplest form, the object of the game is to score or "counts" by ' one's own off both the opponent's cue ball and the on a single shot. The invention as well as the exact date of origin of carom billiards is somewhat obscure but is thought to be traceable t...
 
user1804599
It’s this fun game.
 
user1804599
Pool is boring and snooker is less fun.
 
Yeah, seems 'billiards' is a lot more then I first thought. The whole carom genre is new to me.
 
user1804599
Oh god.
 
user1804599
10:07 PM
This actually exists. I thought it was only from cartoons.
 
How have you never seen one of those :O
 
user1804599
By being Dutch.
 
I did it... I finally closed that tab I had open with that candy game in!
o_0 and on noticed @EtiennedeMartel admitting to criminal interests in girls, I'm heading to bed.
 
(removed)
that "@" just gave me a wrong thought. a really wrong one.
 
Ell
Criminal interests?
I'm gonna sleep now anyway. Night all
 
10:14 PM
nevermind...
meh. where do you live so that you all go sleep so early
 
hmm
@EtiennedeMartel If I default-construct a struct in C#, does it fill the contents with a bunch of uninitialized crap?
 
@DeadMG It recursively initializes all member to its default value.
 
hm, ok.
 
So, null for reference type, zero for primitives, and same treatment for structs.
There's no such thing as "uninitialized" in C#, except when dealing with local variables, and even then it'll fail to compile if you try using those.
 
well, I figured that it should do something like that.
must be that the StringToHGlobalAnsi function simply can't cope with a null string.
 
10:26 PM
I don't think I have a favourite game
 
Xeo
I want to go to sleep but can't because of the stream. @Etienne, I blame you.
 
@Rapptz I like The Game Of Life. I always win.
 
@Xeo Smooth's pretty cool.
 
@DeadMG Probably.
Hmm.
> The address, in unmanaged memory, to where s was copied, or 0 if s is null.
So, it's supposed to work.
 
AHHHHH!
<leaves dramatically>
 
10:29 PM
@Abyx Cellular Automata or Board Game?
 
@Code-Guru yep, CA.
 
hmm
I think I just broke everything terribly and I'm not sure what's going on
I called a C# delegate from C++, but the debugger just acts as if it doesn't exist and skips to some completely random other bit of code
 
What you doin'?
 
adding functionality to my VS addin.
or totally breaking it, depending on how you care to look at things.
welp, fixed it.
turned out I forgot to remove a dead data member from the C++ version of a struct, which wasn't mirrored in C#/
 
10:50 PM
Wow, it's pretty sad when you fail at your own security questions.
 
Xeo
Man, I really like the Terraria Boss Themes
 
hmmm.
if I have void f(int, int); struct x { void f(); void g() { f(5, 5); } }; isn't that supposed to compile?
 
I'm starting to think that there should be a middle-ground between reinterpret_cast and static_cast, a cast operator that can convert T* to U* but not integral-type T to U*. yes, now.. let the flaming begin.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG no
 
huh.
 
Xeo
10:53 PM
lookup finds member f, doesn't take 2 arguments, fails to compile.
 
@DeadMG x::f will hide the function in the outer scope
 
that's silly.
but then I find many things about C++'s name lookup silly.
 
Xeo
don't think so
It's sane, actually. Don't want free functions to steal your calls.
 
@Xeo Well, since it's plain that the member f could not possibly be the f I intended to call
 
Xeo
make g a variadic function template - what now?
 
10:54 PM
hm
 
come on now, doesn't anyone wanna discuss my reinterpret_static_cast?
 
Xeo
can do using ::f; though, I think
 
;-)
 
@Xeo What now is, if you don't want the free f to steal your calls, don't declare a free f :)
 
Xeo
@DeadMG er
 
10:56 PM
or call it using the global scope operator ::
 

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