« first day (1047 days earlier)      last day (3907 days later) » 

9:02 AM
@AlecTeal why not open the door ?
 
@EtiennedeMartel :lol:
 
@thecoshman she got into the car and sat down her self. I'm not saying it wasn't risky just.... overkill :P
@A.H. it was open XD
 
user1804599
> Have the prospects of Python in any way improved since you grew a beard? To what degree does language success correlate to beard length?
> Guido: It is absolutely essential. Just look at Perl's fate -- Larry Wall is just too clean-shaven. :-)
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
9:10 AM
@Xeo I can't find what you're talking about.
 
Xeo
object.property = value;
 
Lol
 
Xeo
Where property is an unary function.
 
I do love Python, I do hate Perl because Larry Wall fell asleep at the keyboard, his head hit it and he found a structure, he found the word of god, in the print his face made.
 
9:11 AM
This guy's.. post..
come on man.. why not write an actual paper?
 
object.property(value) ?
 
Xeo
> The case of a 6-year-old boy who had both his eyes plucked out so thieves could steal his corneas is the latest to outrage and disgust China.
Wtf
 
user1804599
@Xeo That requires @property annotation.
 
Viola Perl, also I hate Perl users because the more cryptic and nasty the code is, the more they are respected.
 
user1804599
I think. :v
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold The article I read indicated that it was also allowed for all functions, not just actual properties
 
user1804599
Wait no you can also call .back on an array because back is a unary function. Hmm.
 
user1804599
In Objective-C you can do it if the method name starts with get or set. :D
 
@Rapptz my company is using VC6, I think std::array has recently been added to the standard library. — jimifiki 55 mins ago
..? dude's using auto and shit.
what the hell
 
LOL
 
9:13 AM
Oh wrong post
 
I was wondering why this comment seemed so out of place until I remembered that I had commented on more than one question.
 
9:25 AM
@AlecTeal and if they tell her to just 'step out of the car' and she then get's paralised? Guess who get's sued because they didn't take all meassures they could
 
@thecoshman in America maybe. The UK legal system operates in the spirit of the action involved.
Anyway
 
Okay, for reals, what’s the overhead of dereferencing a unique_ptr compared to dereferencing a raw pointer? Is there an overhead at all? I don’t see it.
 
It's equivalent to *get().
Which in GCC it's std::get<0>(tuple).
 
that’s begging the question
 
Fuck Drupal, episode 523
 
9:36 AM
and I’m confused – where does the tuple come in?
 
The pointer is actually a tuple.
How is that begging the question?
 
@Rapptz What?!
 
FTR I don't think there's overhead, I'm just explaining its semantics.
ehh let me look at the source. sec
 
@Rapptz Okay it’s not, it just didn’t answer my question ;)
 
THERE MUST BE NO OVERHEAD
PERFORMANCE DEMANDS IT
 
9:38 AM
Okay, as of GCC 4.8.1 it's still implemented as typedef std::tuple<typename _Pointer::type, _Dp> __tuple_type;.
Pointer is a class used to determine if Deleter::pointer exists.
To meet this requirement: "std::remove_reference<Deleter>::type::pointer if that type exists, otherwise T*" for the pointer typedef.
I'm assuming it's to save space.
Okay, 6 AM soon. Should probably sleep since I have work in 3 hours.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz std::tuple likely employs EBO, so yeah
@KonradRudolph this!
 
I found this:
9
A: About unique_ptr performances

Soheil Hassas YeganehI know this question is pretty old, but the results are still valid on G++ 4.7.0 and libstdc++ 4.7. So, I tried to find out the reason. What you're benchmarking here is the dereferencing performance and, looking at the implementation of unique_ptr and shared_ptr, your results are actually correc...

I'm assuming this is where the person might be getting their claims.
 
@Xeo Sure but (how) does that constitute an overhead? Assuming the deleter is an empty base, there is no offset, so ((void*)this) == ((void*)this->p) where p is the original pointer, no?
 
Oh hey I downvoted that question.
 
lol, using I/O for benchmarking
 
Xeo
9:48 AM
@KonradRudolph Of course the optimizer will highly likely inline the dereference anyways.
 
@Xeo Yeah, that was my question: can it? I think so, but people keep insisting that unque_ptr has a – however minuscule – overhead over raw pointers
and that would obviously be a complete deal breaker
and would render all my advocating moot
 
benchmark yourself
but honestly, I truly think std::get<0>() isn't that much of an overhead.
 
user1804599
OVERHEAD
 
user1804599
Raw pointers have the overhead of being dangerous and bad.
 
@Rapptz I’m not interested in benchmarks – microbenchmarks are so incredibly hard that 99% of them are completely broken, this is research-level stuff that even experts get wrong – I want an exhaustive assembly comparison for common cases
 
Xeo
9:53 AM
Y'know, even std::shared_ptr shouldn't have any overhead on dereference.
Since it stores a pointer directly in the class, in addition to the one in the ref count block
 
@KonradRudolph Would it really? Is the extra safety irrelevant because of a possible very tiny overhead?
 
@Rapptz For most applications – no. But for some, yes, definitely, big time.
 
Can't say I agree really.
 
And I’m making a very strong claim in discussions: I claim that you should indiscriminately, always replace memory-owning raw pointers with unique_ptr (where applicable), even in ultra-low-level applications
Unrelatedly, I cannot believe how extremely pervasive deadlock scenarios are in OS X desktop applications
I have to kill apps almost (?) daily because they go into a CPU frenzy, and their crash report always shows that they deadlocked between multiple threads
 
user1804599
Man.
 
9:58 AM
Well, with -O0 unique_ptr is pretty bad.
 
user1804599
Map in PHP is so verbose.
 
@Rapptz Yeah, nobody cares :D
okay, gotta go unfortunately
 
user1804599
Though multi-array map is quite neat.
 
@KonradRudolph It's only on -O0 that I notice calls for std::get.
-O1 and up don't even mention it.
 
@not-rightfold Would you like a $foo = [foreach ($array as $element) yield doSomethingWith($element)] map? :)
 
user1804599
10:00 AM
@NikiC [doSomethingWith($element) | $element <- $array]
 
@not-rightfold Not possible due to parser restrictions ;) Anything with doSomethingWith( at the start won't work
 
user1804599
I like how array_map does zipping.
 
user1804599
@NikiC ughwat
 
@KonradRudolph If they are in a CPU-frenzy, how can they be deadlocked? On the occasions I have deadlocked an app, the CPU drops to zero, (as does user response etc).
 
Or well, it might work, with a sufficient amount of bison hacking and backpatching
 
user1804599
10:01 AM
Isn't (arg1, arg2) just a postfix operator? :V
 
@not-rightfold The issue is distinguishing a LC from an array decl at a sufficiently early time ;)
 
user1804599
Elixir uses lc n inlist [1, 2, 3, 4], do: n * 2.
 
@thecoshman yeah that was my mistake
 
@not-rightfold Yes, anything of that form would work (where the "do" is at the end ^^)
 
user1804599
@NikiC How about shorter lambda syntax?
 
10:03 AM
@KonradRudolph Changing working legacy code indiscriminately is somewhat expensive in terms of fixing the interesting knock on bugs. That said, there's no reason not to use unique_ptr in newly written ultra-low-level applications.
 
@FredOverflow 23" is pretty big. My coworker has both of them next to each other on his desk just behind me. IMHO 16:10 is still a better option anyway
also hi folks
 
If an app becomes unresponsive with heavy CPU use, it's much more likely that the app is livelocked because the clueless morons who wrote it decided that spinlocks and polling lockless queues is 'more performant' than using kernel locks.
 
user1804599
array_map((a, b, c) => …, $as, $bs, $cs)
 
@not-rightfold Haha, I'm not stupid enough to propose that. They start a witch-hunt every time someone suggests a short lambda syntax ^^
 
user1804599
lol
 
10:05 AM
Ah cool you're still coding in haskell
I am studying algorithms for uni and it's dumb as fucking fuck
all that NP-complete-BS
 
Ah yes. Please go reduce SAT to 3DNFSAT
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Who?
 
@not-rightfold y'all
 
user1804599
Oh, I see.
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0
 
user1804599
10:15 AM
@NikiC Generalize it to any monad. :P
 
@thecoshman uh can't a man make a mistake?
anyway it's weird that he was interested in it
also anyway anyway I can't do shit about it because fucking uni
 
@BartekBanachewicz you can... but do you mind providing context?
 
@thecoshman wrt nicol & GLDR
 
@BartekBanachewicz which university?
 
@AlecTeal doesn't matter all suck
 
10:18 AM
Mine doesn't :)
 
yeah fuck you (no offense)
 
I think it's because mine had entry requirements, you know, literacy.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ooooh, that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, like I said, he makes a good point, and yes it is good to be aware of these things, but at the same time, it was stuff that probably shouldn't have been there, and certainly should not be worth others spending time giving reviews.
 
Capital "y", add a full stop, drop the "ah" for a "s"....
 
10:19 AM
IMO it should be closed as something or somethin
 
@thecoshman I bet he was trying it out and just threw his findings there. But from what I can see he just recently created a GH acc
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh - you're back:) I was getting worried - the Lounge has been leaking lately, as you surely know.
 
@thecoshman The font one perhaps. Lemme deal with it later
@MartinJames Yeah I wouldn't leave you, I just was really busy lately. What do you mean by "leaking"? Any more (permanent) dropouts?
 
user1804599
We need a moron.
 
Also I am always available via mail or twitter or whatnot, so don't hesitate to contact me if I'm not here.
 
10:22 AM
Grammar has improved greatly, well done @BartekBanachewicz, do not let it drop again.
 
@BartekBanachewicz @ThePhD deleted and @Ell has disappeared into the European airline system.
 
@MartinJames deleted? Wat.
I guess Ell will be back, huh?
 
@BartekBanachewicz He deleted his a/c. Nobody really knows why. Ell posted about a week ago 'I'm at the airport, going to Spain', and was never heard from again.
 
@MartinJames bah, he'll be back.
and if ThePhd deleted without any notice then uh, I figure we can't do anything about that, so let's just move on.
 
Hope so - we need more fun Loungers, not less.
 
10:25 AM
fun~
W/e, I should grab something to eat and head back home to send my package.
 
I don't come here for intellectual enlightenment:)
 
Aww @MartinJames you're not beyond hope, don't give up, you can be enlightened!
 
> Thanks, Bro, it worked awesome – Dimitar ↵ Sep 24 '11 at 18:57
 
@AlecTeal If it happens, it's a side-effect.
 
Diddums, man the fuck up
 
10:30 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit uh reminds me I am still not 10k yet.
dammit.
 
You're 99%
 
I'd say it's 88.36%
also wat
0
A: Are there any plans or existing projects to port OpenGL API to C++?

Nicol Bolas Is there a well-known C++ wrapper using C++11 facilities for OpenGL? and if not, No. There have been some attempts at it. Is something like this planned by anyone well-known (which especially means the Khronos)? The Khronos ARB doesn't really try to communicate directly with us about...

> At the end of the day, there's really nothing much to gain from having a C++ interface to OpenGL.
TLDR: stop fucking around with GLDR and start doing serious shit
thanks, @Nicol
maybe next holiday :/
also wtf
> Completely Anal
 
Partly Anal
Woot. I deserve a cookie for being cute with animations in my answer to a useless question :) stackoverflow.com/a/18452910/85371
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nor am I, on meta. Just lost another 100 through bounty offering. Grr
@BartekBanachewicz It's true. You'd be context-checking almost bloody constantly in order to provide the safety that's required for an OO interface, but entirely not required in any game codebase I've ever worked on.
You likely can't make use of exceptions, either, since you're working in tight loops at high speeds
 
@BartekBanachewicz When using OpenGL (or DX) in C++ I would always write wrappers around it that provide a minimal (+ safe, clean) api-independent interface specialised for the type of renderer I'm writing. There's really no reason why those wrappers wouldn't be useful for other people. You could probably steal some from an existing open source engine.
 
10:42 AM
@BartekBanachewicz to be honest, I see no harm with it being their, could serve as example code of using it.
 
I hope you fellas wont mind that I'm asking this here, but whats the equivalent of gcc's __attribute__((__always_inline__, __gnu_inline__)) in c++11 generalized attributes?
 
ergh...
 
There is none.
 
@EdwardA variadic macros?
 
10:46 AM
How come? It would make sense to use it to inline a __asm__ __volatile__("int $3");
 
No, it wouldn't.
 
So whats the better alternative?
 
user1804599
Not using assembly (nor C++).
 
> When I think, you move: researchers achieve brain-to-brain interface TheVerge
 
Then how would I debug break in gcc..
 
10:47 AM
__asm__ is unportable and implementation-defined, and so is forced inlining.
 
user1804599
Compile with debugging symbols and use GDB to set a breakpoint on the line in question.
 
There is no alternative.
 
@EdwardA What's wrong with __attribute__((__always_inline__, __gnu_inline__)) ?
still works in C++11
 
@willj standard C++ doesn't allow bold keywords evil edits
 
@BartekBanachewicz is it me, or is Nicols basic argument "It makes no sense for one person to write it for themselves"... completely overlooking that if such a library was written (that was really good) people can just use it
 
10:49 AM
Thing is that I'm not using it as breakpoint, I'm using it as a assert. But yeah, I guess I'll stick to __attribute__, but I thought I could replace that with a (hopefully in the future) cross-compiler option such as generalized attributes.
 
@EdwardA forced-inlining is deliberately left out of the standard.. it's always going to be somewhat implementation specific
probably for a good reason, though I can't recall one right now
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 are you that far behind the news, or are they at it again?
 
@willj I see, well, thanks for help. Cheers
 
what I'd like is a 'NoStepInto' or 'AlwaysStepOver' attribute so the debugger doesn't step into stuff
 
@thecoshman oblivious ... as usual :'(
 
10:54 AM
there's something like that in CLR - it would be rather handy for debugging when you're using a template library
 
That would make C++ tools better, and we can't have that.
 
@Rapptz No need. I already know I'm slow
 
@willj Hehe - it is annoying, when in the middle of a difficult debug single-step exercise, I let the execution blast off into some OS interface code :(
 
@willj great Idea... just omit stepping into all those string constructors and on-liner getters
 
@not-rightfold Potentially. Just yesterday I optimized an algorithm by using ... raw pointers. Also, C strings. Only for read-only passing, not owning.
The standard library still owns :/
 
10:57 AM
If you have one-liner getters then your code is up for a rewrite anyway.
No need to step through.
 
@CatPlusPlus More relevant for when you have lots of forwarding wrapper functions
 
@EdwardA lol, "cross-compiler" and "generalized attributes" in the same sentence.
 
@CatPlusPlus why?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Your point is that its grammatically incorrect or that its not gonna happen with say.. msvc?
 
It's not gonna happen with anything.
The only thing cross-compiler about generalised attributes is the syntax.
Brace yourself for #define DLL_EXPORT [[ msvc::dllexport, gcc::dllexport, clang::dllexport ]].
 
11:13 AM
gcc seems to be making a good push towards it, who uses msvc nowadays anyway, mingw is fairly mature and so far I had no problems with it
 
@EdwardA MSVC can compile the code that uses MSVC extensions >.>
 
Wait, so your definition of cross-compiler is GCC?
 
my definition of cross-compiler is gcc and clang.
 
 
JBL
@EdwardA The company I work for uses MSCV <.<
 
11:15 AM
> Go to gizoogle.net put your twitter name into the search field with @. (ex @jaredpar). Thank me later. tweeted by @jaredpar
^ it really is quite fun
 
@EdwardA Well, make that #define DLL_EXPORT [[ gcc::dllexport, clang::dllexport ]] then.
 
I really cant be arsed with msvc, the c++11 support is a joke
 
@EdwardA Meh. It's not. Because it isn't funny. But seriously, it's c++11 support is not a joke. It's not on par with other compilers, no. But it's certainly useful
 
Can you name 2 things that msvc supports from c++11 except maybe auto?
 
It has way more than 2.
 
11:18 AM
Not even variadic templates, I wouldn't call msvc useful even if they paid me
 
The CTP and 2013 preview both do.
 
@EdwardA That's why you don't work for their marketing department.
 
And 2013 is coming out really soon (or so I thought).
I'm not completely defending their C++11 support, but at least they're working on it more than they were before, and C++14 as well.
 
@EdwardA I didn't say msvc is useful! I said it having some level of c++11 support is useful. (At the very least for adoption. Egoistically, it helps me sneak in c++11 features in answers for general consumption at SO)
 
I'm not trying to bash them now, but I don't see any advantage to using msvc except Visual Studio
 
11:21 AM
GET OUT
You're not trying. You're going full monty
 
Speaking of MSVC, think DreamSpark will have VS2013?
 
In other news, I'm interviewing for a C++ position. Someone contacted me via Careers.SO
#whoknew
I'm not so sure yet. I had/have no plans on leaving. Allthough over the years I have always had it nagging in the back of my head that I should probably find a company that really wants to do C++
 
I had a couple of approaches through Careers.SO, but nothing interesting yet
I suppose it doesn't help that I'm entrenched in my current role
 
This is the company http://www.backupagent.com/
The foremost thing that attracts me is that they are based 15km away from where I live
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I had a somewhat interesting one, but starting new job next week, and US.
 
11:31 AM
so I have a function that takes 3 arguments, SendPacket(char,size_t,void*).
And a overloaded function SendPacket(char ch,std::string str)
the second calls SendPacket(ch,str.length(), str.c_str())
why does this give me "too many arguments in function call" errors? shouldnt the char* be converted implicetly?
or have I had too long of a break of C++
 
oooh
 
... ^ Aside from it being a C++ gig of course.
 
ok ty that makes sense
I really have had a break from C++ for forever holy damn ^.^
 
What deters me slightly is that they are porting their backup client to Android/iOS both of which I have only very limited experience with (programming for)
 
11:34 AM
RUN
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They don't want me to do any UI :) It's the 'daemon'.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What makes you say this, by the way
 
Oh great, I try to log in to see what my email with the university is so I can sign up for DreamSpark and it says Invalid signon time....
 
I get offers via email because my homepage is so awesome
(Nothing from my city on careers.so anyway)
 
I look at the hours of service and this day, this hour is the only one you can't log on during.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They probably have a lot of platform specific annoyances going on? Yeah. That. However, they also offer more interesting in their protocol things like deduplication whilst doing end-to-end encryption etc. This kind of thing can spark my interest. Although I've already mentioned in my first meeting with the CEO (former CTO) that I'll always be pushing for standard proven solutions.
> Pretty terrible at anything that isn't programing. Especially cooking. And life
First time I saw that
 
user1804599
11:43 AM
Phew.
 
user1804599
Almost had to use Java.
 
It's you. You're JAVA
 
user1804599
> How about we use C# instead?
 
Hey guys why are some upvotes worth 10, others 5?
 
Because answers are more valuable.
 
11:45 AM
Oh question upvotes are worth 5
Thanks @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
There's entire black market for answers
 
I run it.
Secretly.
Meaning no one knows. So don't tell.
 
cat.shave()
 
@sehe Perhaps you can persuade them to drop this "cloud" nonsense and focus on a decent peer-to-peer backup platform, such as CrashPlan.
 
11:56 AM
Isn't the cloud the best thing ever?
I mean seriously, that Xbone console, that's cloud powered, how is that not a good thing!
 
cat.shave() vs shave(cat);
 
The cloud can see my face and detect my heartbeat in the dark, the cloud and I are one.
Hey @Telkitty猫咪咪 it could be PHP, then shave($shaver,$cat) shaves a shaver with cat.
 
shaver<cat,cat_traits<cat>> _shavecat_s(cat hairycat, size_t catsize)
use that
 
clearly
 
@AlecTeal you mean: shaver.shave(cat); //shaver does cat
 
12:02 PM
what about shaver(cat), make use of the ()operator
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Haha. Perhaps, lol. It sure will be a good test of their sense of humour
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 I don't remember the syntax, I just did "shoot($gun,$foot)" one day, and got a catable fatal error on a line. Turns out the foot shot my gun, it didn't work
 
Anyways, I'm off to go sing at a marriage. #Someone'sgottadoit
 
@sehe Isn't that what the drunk people are for?
 
12:13 PM
that and crasy people, they sing a lot too - when uninvited ...
 
In space no one can hear me sing, so they don't scream.
 
Speaking of space, Gravity's getting good reviews. Pity I have to wait until October to watch it :(
 
In space, in the absence of gravity, you might still be fat, but at least it is technically wrong to call you heavy ...
OMG I almost did not recognize what this was
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm hopefully gonna catch the North American premiere at TIFF
If I can get tickets - it'll probably sell out instantly
 
12:29 PM
@willj jelly
 
I'm happy if it's getting good reviews.. I have high expectations
I'd hate to be disappointed
 
Yeah, me too.
Have you seen Children of Men?
 
yep, am a big fan
 
@MartinJames busy wait (spinlock)
 
Reminds me of that movie Sunshine
 
12:49 PM
So apparently MySQL is okay with JOIN between string column and integer column.
And will happily truncate the string column after the number ends.
 
How so not surprising.
 
Which is actually what I need right now but jesus.
 
MySQL has per session and per server (IIRC) settings that can make it a lot more ANSI SQL compatible.
Unfortunately most PHP coding chumps do not know that.
 
@KonradRudolph Somewhat echoing robot with his MySQL despair, what a surprise :(
 
wouldn't you anti-mysql @CatPlusPlus?
 
12:54 PM
The one time I answer a C++ question, it's actually a C question.
 
@chris I haven't answered anything today - it was all too depressing.
 
@MartinJames I figured the std::min solution to passing as many arguments as you want was worth it since that knowledge is lesser known.
 
The only correct thing to do with MySQL is to not use MySQL.
But I'm not the one choosing here.
 
@chris There was a 'sequence points' question, then one about completely serializing multiple threads in order. After that I gave up for today.
 

« first day (1047 days earlier)      last day (3907 days later) »