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1:00 AM
Hmm... that weird, I found the UI to be quite intuitive in 2.65 (well 2.50 and up)
 
Ell
Oh my god. Euphoria is impressive
 
@DomagojPandža We're getting to a point where we'll tell them: "Either you use that tool, or you're fired because we won't be able to pay you".
 
@Ell It is.
 
Ell
That definitely looks like the old blender ui
 
@Ell It is
 
1:00 AM
AAA games won't sell as well, so we need to lower their development costs. And that means a better pipeline.
 
This is the new one:
 
It throws everything onto the screen
Why the fuck does it display animation timeline or whatever that is
 
You can get rid of it quite easily
 
Nobody knows how to fade and hide what's not important.
I don't fucking know why.
 
@CatPlusPlus That's what all the 3D tools do.
 
Ell
1:01 AM
Because you are in scene mode
 
Any fucking modeling tools goes "HERE'S YOUR INTERFACE KTHXBYE".
 
Rule 1: show what's important right now
 
@CatPlusPlus That's what Photoshop does.
Nobody else does it.
 
Ell
I wish I could 3d model
What about gimp? Why do people complain about that?
 
I don't know shit about modelling but somehow I doubt you animate something that doesn't exist yet
GIMP has annoying behaviour and window model
Sometimes both
 
Ell
1:03 AM
They updated windows now
 
In one-window mode clicking close button on main window closes one image tab
 
Ell
Finally can have multiple images per window :P
 
That's just
 
UX is hard. Very hard. And not enough people care about that.
UX is part of my job description, and I'm not very good at it.
 
I'm closing the fucking main window because I want to close entire program NO I DON'T WANT TO CLICK IT 10 TIMES BECAUSE I HAVE 10 IMAGES FUCK OFF GIMP
 
1:04 AM
I think I'll go read Don't make me think again.
 
@CatPlusPlus: To get rid of the animation thing takes 2 sec, a) The triangle at the bottom left of the 3d Window, click it and drag until a big arrow comes up over the Animation area. The go to File -> Save user preferences. Now when you open Blender it will be gone :)
 
Ell
Is domagoj up still?
 
It's really things you'd think are common sense
@Borgleader w/e
 
@CatPlusPlus I like End Process.
 
Customisability is not the issue
 
1:05 AM
kill.
 
Information overload is
 
Is it so hard to show contextual stuff?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fade things in and out.
Would be so much better if they just did that.
 
Also getting rid of it is not intuitive in its own right
 
Oh, you moved your mouse here? Let me open this menu for you.
 
1:06 AM
I just managed to duplicate it
I can't close it
 
I'm wondering if 3ds is overly complex because there's an entire industry of schools teaching it.
 
Oh hey now there's 3 of them
 
@CatPlusPlus Fail
You dragged in the wrong direction
or the wrong widget
 
This is not a good UI
 
I mean, it's like, if we all got electric cars, all the mechanics would go out of business.
 
1:06 AM
The UI is supposed to accomodate me. =[
 
If you say this is a good UI you know nothing about UIs sorry
 
Not the other way around. =[
I r hoomanz.
Pleess me.
 
I know Cat has a weird relationship with intuition, but in this case he's right.
 
Ell
@domagoj if I have a 3d terrain on which various buildings can be placed, and one is a mine (e.g. it digs into the terrain), how would I make sure it appears as an indent in the terrain instead of the surface of the terrain poking through? To be honest though I don't even know if the latter would happen, I haven't tested
 
@EtiennedeMartel We can send them to North Korea.
 
1:07 AM
Oh it now duplicated sideways
Fuck this shit
 
@CatPlusPlus That part is a little confusing but it's really easy once you get used to it. The rest of the UI is great. (I'm talking about all the property panels on the right, the tool shelf on the left,...)
 
Ahahaha
That's a shitty excuse
 
Ell
Blender ui really isn't that hard.
You're just bad.
 
"Oh our UI is great once you spend 20 hours learning every quirk of it"
 
More like 5 min
 
1:08 AM
You can say the same about Dwarf Fortress
 
Ell
It does take some learning I guess
 
Or OSX
 
Ell
Yeah df fortress needs learning too
And osx
Now I've lost the point
 
If it needs learning, then it's bad
 
All UIs take some learning
 
1:09 AM
No
 
get over it
 
Ell
What? Most things need learning
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes.
 
@Ell Actually, you can't do it automagically in a trivial way, the mine enterance is custom made and you have to actually manually drill into the terrain, either by modifying the (presumably) generated map or creating a visual tool for it. If you have complex arches and caves, than you should study voxelizing and how it can help you to generate cavey terrain.
 
@Ell Even eating.
 
1:09 AM
The problem is when the UI takes massive amounts of learning.
 
I don't like UIs that require 1500 hours of training.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, ugh, maybe sort of
 
The bitchiest thing about 3ds max is rigging. Maya especially, it has a bunch of really unintuitive processes required to make it work. Also, I've had to write custom scripts to place useful tools people at Autodesk never cared to implement.
 
But there's analogies and conventions that make that transparent
I'm not using right words it's 3AM get fucked
Since we're talking about games somewhat, how many times you actually read the tutorials and shit
 
Ell
@domagoj well if the terrain is very simple (no overhangs) and the mine is very simple (see it as just a single conical indent) then would just drawing it after work?
 
1:11 AM
Unless it's really gimmicky thing you just do it without thinking
 
@CatPlusPlus Depends on what kind of game I'm playing.
 
@Ell Maybe, you need to try. But it won't look very exciting. :D
 
@EtiennedeMartel That
 
Oh, shit.
 
Hardcore titles assume you've played at least one similar game, and follow the same conventions because of that.
 
Ell
1:12 AM
Haha its okay, I don't need it to look to exciting. It is only a 3d version of a 2d game with not particularly impressive graphics
 
But even then there are subtleties.
 
Also, there's a terrible trend in the industry which plays political wars between Nvidia and AMD/ATi.
Some awesome high-resolution texture tools opt-in to extensions available for just one platform and telling everyone else to fuck off.
 
Oh hey I managed to replace the scene view with that fucking animation timeline
What a great UI
 
And now there's no way to get it back
 
Ell
1:14 AM
Platform wars suck :/
 
And uh I can align toolbars horizontally to make them unusable I guess that's a thing
 
It's not rocket science. The triangle splits a window when you click and drag towards the inside of the area you're in, or merges if you drag to another area.
 
Why
Why does it do that
 
Ell
So you can have for ex 4 view windows
 
That's how you arange all the areas in the damn screen
 
Ell
1:16 AM
To see tour model at 4 angles simultaneous ly
Its just to allow customizing the view to your needs
 
That's the explanation of intent not behaviour
 
Ell
Oh
Well that's just the way you split/merge a window :3
 
They way I'm trying to figure out Empiria (the world editor of Duality):

1) First time usage, since I am using a custom GUI on top of D2D, the entire surface of the window turns into an animated quick tutorial.
2) Exposes only relevant context-sensitive stages
3) Exposes only relevant transformation toolbars
4) On selection of an object, object specific details and options animate in.
 
@CatPlusPlus How would you have it done?
 
The only thing that is constant, in the revised version is the main menu
I have no idea how to abstract that way from the user. But it shouldn't be too intimidating.
 
1:18 AM
random question: if you changed a resume, is it okay to submit an updated resume to an employer who has the out-of-date one?
 
Ugh I don't know a titlebar for every toolbar that you can drag and drop maybe like every other tool ever
w/e I really don't care about 3D modellers
 
Alright, question for you, you clever tits: let's say you want to pass a function pointer as a template argument for a type. Is there a way to store this pointer in a static constant?
 
Have fun with them
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yah.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ugh static constant?
 
1:20 AM
It's the same as storing it for any other type.
 
Because going the static const route gives a "only static const integral data members can be initialized within a class".
 
But you don't initialise it within the class
 
RetVal (* myfuncptr )( A1, A2, A3, ... );
 
You pass it as an argument
So I don't know what you're trying to achieve here
 
@EtiennedeMartel You have to initialize it in the CPP file.
 
1:21 AM
But it's a template class.
 
Then just outside the template class in the header.
 
Write a POC because I have no idea what you're trying to do here
 
	template <class T>
	const RVector2<T> RVector2<T>::Zero = { (T)0, (T)0 };
 
Oh template argument
 
1:23 AM
^^^^ Like that
 
Yeah, that kind of "template argument".
 
In the header
 
That smells like XY
What do you need that for
 
Compile time map of enum to function pointer.
Although, wait.
That's doable with partial specialization.
 
Yeah, if you have specific crap, part. spec.
 
Ell
1:25 AM
I remember trying and failing to do this
When I was more noobish
 
template <int Id> void (*)()thing();
template <> void (*)()thing<1>() { return ... };
 
Ell
I wanted a static enum to function ptr map
 
Just typedef that fugly return type
 
Fix. font that.
 
1:26 AM
:effort:
 
You lazy cat.
 
Ell
I'm walking in the peak district tomorrow, I should sleep
Nighty night all
 
It's readable if you've got entire chat as monospaced font :smugdog:
 
Lol
 
Ell
s/cat/clit
ClitPlusPlus
 
1:27 AM
I should have known.
 
I'm still not sure why you need a map from enum to function pointer
 
Ell
Anyway, night.
 
And compile time map at that
Just use the function directly?
 
That's another can of worms.
(The real answer is: it's not really my code)
 
@Ell G'night.
 
1:34 AM
Rap is like an Oreo. Most of it’s Black, but the best part is White.
This is wrong on so many levels.
 
Looooooooooooooool.
 
I think it's pretty hilarious
 
It's tumblr.txt
Someone actually unironically believes that
 
I'm pretty sure the original author is thinking about Eminem.
 
Probably
 
1:37 AM
And comparing it to all the gangsta garbage that's around him.
So, sure, taken that way, Eminem is indeed marginally more talented than those guys.
But rap isn't just that.
 
user1357851
Am I the only one find most tweets/facebook updates boring? I don't understand why people can spend hours at social network sites
 
@Telkitty Perhaps it's because you're not in the graph of any interesting people.
So you don't see the interesting stuff they post.
 
user1357851
Maybe. Where are the interesting people??
 
Everywhere.
 
They're here...
 
user1357851
1:41 AM
LOL, I am fairly boring most of the times, most others are even more so :p
 
FB updates are almost always reposts
 
user1357851
or food pics
 
Anyway, what I was getting at is the best of rap is black.
 
user1357851
or their kids/friends/holidays
 
@Telkitty Only hipsters.
@Telkitty Or people who just had children.
 
1:43 AM
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/jdj0oz/gt-countdown-games-for-oculus-rift
Hehehe (Day9 should see this)
 
Why is there even a need to classify rap as black or white :psyduck: jesus
 
@EtiennedeMartel Can we agree that there really is room for differences in taste?
 
@JerryCoffin Of course.
Except when it comes to beer. If you dislike beer, you have no taste.
 
Fuck fermented crap
 
Is anybody familiar with credential providers?
 
1:46 AM
My street cred is p high
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't think there is -- though there was a hilarious episode (on SNL, IIRC) about a "race draft" (or something like that) where they'd decide that some people were of a different race than they might look like. As I recall, they started off with a "trade" of Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell for Eminem, so they'd both be officially "white" and he'd be officially "black".
@Pawnguy7 I don't usually talk about it in public, but yeah, I know this guy who can get you a fake ID... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin I'd like a Vulcan passport and proof of residency please... this planet sucks. (and before you ask, yes I already found a plastic surgeon)
 
I see you were disturbed by this abuse of unclosed parenthesis too
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes, my Lisp experience started to cry.
 
@CatPlusPlus Where? :D
 
1:51 AM
@DomagojPandža history
 
So , nobody familiar with it? (of the windows API variety)
 
Well, looks like @sbi had lots of fun.
Judging by his Twitter account, at least.
 
user1357851
I have been having interesting 'architecture' dreams for the past 2 nights. 2 nights ago I dreamed of a 9-10 story hotel, made entire of glass (except the structure part which is probably steel). The shape looked a bit like the bottom part of this, but it is transparent instead. The rooms have curtains & high ceilings.
 
user1357851
It is more curved than that bottle, & thinner
 
But can you do a maze
 
user1357851
1:59 AM
Probably then get lost in it ... I'll also leave the ghost hack until we can use the internet with our brain waves :p
 
You wish to live in a giant nail polish bottle. That's original...
 
Repeat: Is anybody familiar with Windows API Credential Providers?
 
@CatPlusPlus Or maize.
@Pawnguy7 It if didn't work the first time, it's unlikely to work the second time.
 
Maybe it was a slow period :D
Like for... ehm... SO FGINW questions.
 
user1357851
@Borgleader I dreamed it first then I was looking for something similar on the internet and found that ...
 
2:07 AM
@Telkitty right so youre gonna tell me you never saw a nailpolish bottle before that
 
user1357851
Then last night I dreamed of a swing made of steel, a really tall one (maybe 12-15 meters high or taller). It has decorations on the rope and on the seat. There was something else, but I could not make it out what it was because it was still under construction. The giant swing was not far from a 2 meters kids one.
 
user1357851
@Borgleader I am sure I have seen similar design many times before
 
user1357851
I even know where the hotel was located at (currently all houses & stuff)
 
user1357851
2:47 AM
 
user1357851
can has cheeseburger cat ... saved another slow chat!
 
TIL what "gesundheit" means.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
o.0
Even -I- knew what that meant.
U so noob.
@Rapptz You need to get on Mumble one day and talk Japanese to me. <3
 
I tried mumble once but no one could hear me
 
2:59 AM
If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. <3
 
@ThePhD If at first you don't succeed...skydiving probably isn't a good sport for you!
 
how is babby formed
 
You're 12 years late to the memes like usual Crowz.
 
all your base are belong to us
 
pats
 
3:09 AM
He's kinda endearing, really. Like a dog who pees in his own mouth.
 
lmao god help me
 
Y2K was actually a pretty big issue.
Not so much world ending but an issue.
 
3:19 AM
Oh right... you don't know/like memes
 
I know them.
I don't like them.
 
Well you missed the point of this one >.>
 
No I got it, I just like being a buzzkill.
 
y u do dis to me :(
 
:)
 
3:20 AM
This is you in Family Guy (Mr. Buzz Killington)
 
Well I actually brought it up because when I saw that meme a few days ago I googled Y2K to see what I missed when I experienced it.
And then it said that a lot of programming languages' time modules implementations broke a bit.
Including C
> In the C programming language, the standard library function to extract the year from a timestamp returns the year minus 1900. Many programs using functions from C, such as Perl and Java, two programming languages widely used in web development, incorrectly treated this value as the last two digits of the year.
 
What a bunch of morons.
 
Java does have notoriously bad date/time stuff.
So much that you have to use an external library (Joda).
 
I don't know why everyone didn't just use an int64 to start with.
 
3:25 AM
Memory wasn't cheap back then.
 
Yeah, but there's typedef's and stuff for a reason.
 
Games from back then still impress me.
 
And then break code?
 
Break code how? You shouldn't be bit-twiddling a date or a time value.
 
It's tough enough having longs becoming 8 byte long on some platforms in x64, so no.
@ThePhD So, depending on when you built that object file, it might not crash?
 
3:27 AM
It might not crash indeed.
 
btw I like this meme. It's one of the two I find funny.
 
I should go.
 
Bye.
 
Thread on reddit about what you would do if you went 500 years in the past.
 
user1357851
3:37 AM
@DomagojPandža why are you telling us whether you should or shouldn't go?
 
Shit man. I'd be in math books for life.
Invent Calculus. The whole thing.
 
Sage Rapptz
 
user1357851
the same maths or different ones?
 
@ThePhD I'd be regarded as a mathematician God.
 
And then you'd get executed for heresey.
:P
 
user1357851
3:38 AM
a mathematician dog more likely ... but that's not quite the point :p
 
I'll be a hermit!
 
Then how will you become a mathematics god?
 
It'll be published post-mortem.
I didn't think that bit through.
 
Pat pat
Maybe you'll develop a secret society
Until your math is ready to grace the world. :P
Rapptzure.
 
Well first thing I'd change is make partials look not as ugly.
Pretty ugly notation to do by hand :( I think it's the only thing I suck at writing.
 
user1357851
3:43 AM
I can see you have 2 options: buy a bunch of puppies and they will worship you like a god, or create a whole new system of maths & physics - they are totally different from maths or physics as we know today but they will also accurately describe nature phenomenons
 
The latter would be impressive even if I did it today.
 
user1357851
it would be ... because after hundreds of billions of people ever on the face of earth for the past 5000+ years and you can come up with a new working system. I am sure everyone would think you are genius, even greater than newton
 
Don't give him ideas now.
 
Man... I wish I had money to spend on Oculus Rift
That with some sick surround sound tech has the possibility of making really immersive games
 
I'm bored.
 
user1357851
3:54 AM
 
Yeah that one made me lol a few days ago too.
 
This got linked on /r/programming and I never saw it before. Link
 
I had seen that video on youtube a few months ago.
 
4:04 AM
I saw one about him not liking C IIRC
 
Really? I've never heard him speak negatively about C..
 
I don't remember all the bits and pieces.
 
Ah.
C++ seems to be gaining attention since C++11.
"It should have been one language."
I didn't know he held that opinion.
 
Ah, Iw atched that.
Yeah, he believed it should be the same.
ANd truthfully, C and C++ could've been rolled into one language a long time ago.
 
Yeah.
But they split up a bit so it isn't a strict subset.
 
4:11 AM
But that would means hundreds of C fanatics, marketeers, etc. etc. would suddenly be out of a job.
 
Naturally Dennis Ritchie wouldn't like it if somebody said: I made a new langauge based on yours and yours is obsolete now.
 
Well, the idea wasn't obsoletion.
It was merging.
Joining.
A marriage, of sorts.
Or an assimilation.
 
Yeah merging is a bit less insulting than "yours sucks mine is better"
 
Many people don't realize that C++ is a different language than C. They think it's C with extensions, or something.
 
It wasn't an entirely different language earlier on.
Stroustrup advocated resolving differences and merging.
But, again, nobody really wanted to.
 
4:14 AM
I didn't know Simula was the first object oriented programming language until I googled it a long time ago.
I thought that was cool
 
I just can't wait 'till I can write Clean.
 
> Simula 67 introduced objects,[1]:2, 5.3 classes,[1]:1.3.3, 2 subclasses,[1]:2.2.1 virtual methods,[1]:2.2.3 coroutines,[1]:9.2 discrete event simulation,[1]:14.2 and features garbage collection.[1]:9.1
 
Simula syntax looks horribly outdated though.
 
lol yeah
 
Alright.
 
4:15 AM
BEGIN
      outtext("Hello World!");
      outimage;
END;
 
So I fixed my loaers up entirely.
 
What the hell is outimage;?
 
output is in .png format obviously
 
And now they're all C++ and nice and well-designed and friendly.
 
Haha, I can always win against the computer on water maps in Age of Empires II.
 
4:23 AM
OP
Water was OP is AoE II and Mythologies.
 
Fishboats enable booming in dark age. The computer probably doesn't use that trick.
 
In Rise of Rome it was dowright dirty.
 
Never played that one.
That was AoE1, right?
 
Yeah
I think Rise of Rome... it was an expansion pack?
 
4:24 AM
Maybe. It was the first AoE I played online.
Fucking, APO clan.
 
I got the Wikipedia page open :)
Did you play AoEII online as well?
 
Nah.
Only singleplayer.
 
Ah, ok.
 
And Myth was single player too. I only briefly dabbled in AoE III.
After that, I've never kept up.
 
Same for me. I didn't finish the AoEIII campaign.
Never played Myth even.
 
4:26 AM
LE GASP
Myth was actually fun. =[[[[
 
I heard.
 
Go get a copy from an anonymous friend. :D
 
The 3d graphics of AoM look outdated now while AoEII still looks fine since it's 2d.
Ok, looking at youtube gameplay video, it looks like a nice game.
 
I wish shaman or druid were still legitimate career choices
 
4:43 AM
^ Wow, I forgot how intense those games could be.
I could never keep up with such a battle.
 
user1357851
Have you ever tried to surround a wolf with a bunch of sheep in AoE games?
 
user1357851
I also used to build my own maps, then surround the only path between my civilization & my enemies with hundreds of rabid wolves and jagulas
 
Wtf is an Area of Effect game? and why is it in tents?
ba-dum-tss
 

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