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8:00 PM
Is the Minecraft source code avaliable in some form un-screwed up?
 
@Cicada no one is gonna hear you scream
 
even your GF?
 
@user190929 no, open source programs don't make money.
 
even the non-obfuscated source code is screwed up.
 
@Cicada Why do you have to introduce her to this discussion every time?
 
8:01 PM
i don't know you're being creepy :v
 
@BartekBanachewicz she's jelly
 
s/jelly/troll
 
@MooingDuck True, but I was wondering how it is modded without them knowing the interface to the engine, unless that is published somewhere.
 
@Cicada ok that was a bit creepy I agree
 
@user190929 Interface != source code.
 
8:01 PM
i'll put a pic of a naked man then
 
A bit
 
everyone'll be happy
 
but still what on earth my gf has to do with it
 
Ell
s/jelly/not real
 
@MooingDuck reminds me, speaking of the modders - they add content. But if they improved the engine, then ALL the content improves... hm
 
8:02 PM
Nobody cares about the engine
 
well i don't know you're harassing some poor soul on the internet to put a female pic why would you do that
 
Ell
My ex-gf thinks you're all pedophiles
 
@Cicada maybe we will never know
 
I am
 
user142019
@Ell we are.
 
user142019
8:03 PM
(You're the first victim but you don't know yet.)
 
Ell
@Zoidberg A pedophile stalks children, not other pedophiles
 
user142019
Pedophilephiles do.
 
A stalker stalks that's kind of why they're called that
 
Ell
So what?
 
8:03 PM
@Ell Dont listen to @Zoidberg he is himself a child.
 
~~**MY GIRLFRIEND**~~
 
user142019
 
user142019
This song is way too happy.
 
Way too much salad
 
(Get a room is what I'm saying)
 
Ell
8:04 PM
You can't make friends with saalad
 
Uh, I beg to differ
 
@Cicada most prolly we will never know. Now put that av and I'll be back in about an hour
 
okay you're all ignorant
 
@BartekBanachewicz Keep going that way and I'll seriously put some macho man
In fact I'm doing it right now
How many abs should it have
~~~~
 
@Zoidberg s/shappy/shit/
 
user142019
8:06 PM
You are shit.
 
There are such odd conversations on the internet...
 
user142019
@user190929 You might like /b/. Also, nice message ID.
 
Is that a shape in your pocket or are you just shappy to see me
 
\B\ is terrible
 
user142019
\B\? Is that 4chan for Windows users?
 
8:07 PM
@user190929 I don't know, I'd imagine some interface is public, and the rest is figured out from the messed-up-reverse-engineered source.
 
you must be new here
 
user142019
you must be delete here
 
@user190929 hard to change the engine, since the "code" we have is all screwed up, and keeps changing
 
your puns are terrible
:cripes:
 
user142019
Everything is terrible.
 
8:08 PM
@user190929 java is by it's nature open source. But they obfuscate the code, and there are tools that can try to reverse this process
 
user142019
Especially YOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
 
@MooingDuck true enough. Reminds me. Why, then, does everybody think Notch is a great programmer? Never understood their fascination myself - he is just one of many indie game developers.
@Zoidberg Message id?
 
user142019
Notch is not a great programmer.
 
user142019
He just made a great video game.
 
> notch
> great programmer
:hilarity:
 
8:09 PM
"Notch is a great programmer" said no one ever
 
@Zoidberg This is true, but why are they assumed equivalent?
 
@thecoshman say what now?
 
He's a great game designer/developper. But programmer? nope
 
@MooingDuck what's so confusing?
 
user142019
@user190929 Because that's an easy thing to say and people are lazy so they like easy things.
 
8:10 PM
@thecoshman No, it's not
 
@thecoshman no wait, I figured it out
 
He's swedish /thread
 
@user190929 because they confused success with skill
 
@CatPlusPlus go on
 
8:10 PM
@EtiennedeMartel So hey we're in Japan now
 
@CatPlusPlus I did not say they didn't love that elsewhere.
@Cicada Could be worse. He could be French.
 
That would be extreme
 
@thecoshman "Open source" doesn't mean "you can disassemble/decompile the binaries" because by that logic everything ever is open source :cripes:
 
:cripes:
 
@Ell What the fuck.
 
8:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel It's my cry for help
 
@CatPlusPlus well fine, it's not open source by any conventional definition
 
@MooingDuck True enough. What amazes me is how people who, say, have no programming knowledge whatsoever, try to convince others why it is good...
 
@CatPlusPlus You have to take initiatve.
I won't always be there for you.
 
@thecoshman What the fuck are you talking about
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel hah, she assumes internet == pedophile
 
8:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus Tulip pie!
 
There is exactly one definition of open source
 
inb4 wikipedia link / def
 
@Ell Hmm, your ex... was that the completely insane woman you tried to get back with?
 
@Ell She's absolutely right in every aspect
 
user142019
> insane woman
 
user142019
8:13 PM
Redundant.
 
> faggot zoidberg
Same.
 
lol
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel No that was my other ex :3
 
i have so many exes
 
You hang out with weird people
 
8:14 PM
I am not sure, but it is me or is profanity considered alternate punctuation here?
 
all in my debug folder
 
Ell
but to me, all women are completely insane xD (it was a joke, please don't hate me :/)
 
i hated you before already
 
user142019
[|0..99|] guess the programming language.
 
Well it sounds true in your case, if you qualify that as "all women you know"
 
8:14 PM
@Ell You should stay over the hot/crazy curve.
 
for the moronities you said in the C# room
 
@CatPlusPlus but if you can reproduce the code including variable names, you pretty much have the source.... And doesn't Java keep all the variable names and types about for reflection?
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's more of a line than a curve...
 
@Zoidberg ruby
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel Hmm I should
 
8:15 PM
@Cicada oh yeah, I forgot about that dirty past of yours
 
@Borgleader Well, a line is a special kind of curve.
 
user142019
@MooingDuck not local vars.
 
@MooingDuck Irrelevant
 
user142019
@Cicada noob
 
@Zoidberg ah
 
8:15 PM
@EtiennedeMartel true.dat
 
@Zoidberg i don't know that language
 
user142019
@Cicada hence you're a noob. :)
 
@Zoidberg funny... that first digit is equal to the number of fucks I give
 
@Zoidberg that makes two of us
 
8:16 PM
Open source has nothing to do with amount of effort you need to get the source
OH HEY WINDOWS IS OPEN SOURCE YOU CAN TOTALLY DECOMPILE SHIT
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus lol who thought that it had
 
useless debate on its way
 
user142019
@Cicada redundant to say that in Lounge<C++>.
 
@Cicada captain obvious
 
@CatPlusPlus not and understand it. Nobody here is claiming that all things you can decompile are open source.
 
8:17 PM
8 mins ago, by thecoshman
@user190929 java is by it's nature open source. But they obfuscate the code, and there are tools that can try to reverse this process
> java is by it's nature open source
> java is by it's nature open source > java is by it's nature open source > java is by it's nature open source
 
fail
 
user142019
> it's
 
user142019
Fail, indeed.
 
Also I'm not debating anything because Cicada an Zoidberg are acting like retards and shitting up the room
 
Is it the GPL that tries to make YOUR program GPL as well? I get it and LGPL mixed up.
 
8:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
@CatPlusPlus s/acting like//
 
Hm.
 
I need to get some more sleep than 4 hours
 
TIL I get more rep by answering easy google-bait questions, specifically related to C# and Visual Studio.
 
@CatPlusPlus Then sleep.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sleep, Cat-san~
 
8:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus yes, thecoshman is implying that all Java is open source. Probably ecause you can get almost the full source out of it. He makes no claims about machine code, that would be absurd. You can't even remotely get the original source out of machine code.
 
The OpenJDK is open source.
 
Who here uses some way, shape, or form of Linux on a PC?
 
@user190929 define "uses"
(to be clear, I wouldn't call Java open source)
 
@ThePhD o.O Teach me master.
 
@MooingDuck unless it was written directly in machine code... but then you have the original... so not sure if that really counts
 
8:22 PM
What do you mean, teach you?
YOu have more rep than me. :c
 
@MooingDuck I would say it as in the active OS for general use (not server, say). For example, I am using Windows7, yesturdya, today, tommorow.. etc
 
user1357851
@user190929 1)install it, 2) ssh into it 3) use vmwere etc etc
 
@thecoshman but there's no way to know! You might have the origonal, but can't know it.
 
@user190929 you're on the internet, you are using Linux in some shape or form
@MooingDuck true
 
@user190929 see, I have it on one of my laptops, but never boot it, so...
 
8:23 PM
@user190929 I use VirtualBox whenever I need linux
 
All the time/
 
user142019
Pearl Jam!
 
So... it is useful for some purposes, but not in general?
 
user142019
Perl Jam, hmm.
 
For personal use, I mean. Servers is another matter entirely.
 
8:24 PM
@Cicada Is my wish really that bad? o.O
 
Well. I like linux on my desktop and my servers.
 
@user190929 what? nobody said that
 
@ThePhD Rep is irrelevant.
 
@MooingDuck Well, you have it but rarely use it, and borg uses a VM when needed. 2 to 1 answers I guess.
 
@user190929 define useful
 
8:25 PM
@user190929 no, we said we don't use it, not that it's not useful.
 
@DeadMG Is it REALLY?!
 
yes
 
Maybe I can run for SO mod in a few years with only 1K rep. :3c
 
unless you have like, 50k+
 
@user190929 That's like saying Orange cars are less useful than red cars.
 
8:26 PM
@Cicada I hope you caught my apologies the other day. It wasn't meant in any harmful way. I was having a bad day
 
@MooingDuck Who'd want an orange car?
 
Ok. I will try to rephrase this as to my original purpose: what it useful about Linux offshoots as compared to other OS's, for example learning purposes, speed, convenience, etc.
 
@user190929 it's faster and less buggy.
 
@StackedCrooked Douchebags, the color will match their tan.
 
user142019
Linux is a kernel.
 
user142019
8:27 PM
Not much can go wrong.
 
Linux based OSs just like Windows and Mac are both fairly useless, it is the software that comes with them or you put on your self that makes them usefull
 
@user190929 nothing
 
@Zoidberg don't confuse the pumkin
 
user142019
Windows is kernel plus a lot of other software and so is OS X.
 
@user190929 safer, and gets updates more commonly
 
8:27 PM
That is why I said offshoots.
 
user142019
Hence lots of things can go wrong.
 
@MooingDuck by safer you mean less targetted?
 
@Zoidberg OSX uses the linux kernel
 
@user190929 "distribution"
 
@user190929 They're great for learning purposes, they can be a hell of a lot faster than your run-of-the-mill windows system, they can be much more customized -> more convenient. Not for your grandma, though
 
8:28 PM
@Borgleader currently, yes
 
user142019
@MooingDuck That's completely false.
 
@user190929 I still fail to see what you mean by usefull
 
user142019
OS X uses the XNU kernel which is BSD-like.
 
Is that what they are called? I could not remember what the word was.
 
@thecoshman lol
 
8:28 PM
@Zoidberg meh, shows what I know
 
user142019
(It's a Mach kernel.)
 
I was polling to find out if and why Linux was preferred, in a consideration as to whether or not, and why, if so, I should try it.
 
@ScottW Hm?
 
Ell
@MooingDuck it uses a *nix kernel
 
@Zoidberg Mach zero :P
 
user142019
8:29 PM
XNU is Darwin, Linux is Linux.
 
user142019
Windows is I don't even wanna talk about it.
 
@user190929 it is preferred by those who use it. Most desktop users though use windows, either because they want to use software that is only on windows, mostly (IMO) because they don't know any better
 
@Zoidberg Windows is "special"
 
@ScottW OS X's default shell is bash.
 
@Ell unix like
 
user142019
8:30 PM
I use Z shell on OS X because Z shell FTW.
 
user142019
OS X's default shell is not bash.
 
BASH for me
 
@user190929 I've been using Ubuntu for three years now at work. The desktop environment is crap. Linux is only good for servers IMO.
 
user142019
OS X's default shell is Quartz Compositor.
 
@Zoidberg I'm talking about the fucking terminal here.
 
8:31 PM
@Ell "XNU is an acronym for X is Not Unix.[1]"
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel :^)
 
@thecoshman well, isn't the software support on Linux a bit lacking? I have heard it is more abundant in some areas (Say GNU), but not so much for more... general software, I want to say.
 
@Zoidberg wtf sort of shit stane is that?
 
@Zoidberg And I'm not sure Quartz Compositor qualifies as a "shell".
 
@user190929 oh yeah, totally
 
8:32 PM
@user190929 erm... huh?
 
I think the lobster is shitting me.
 
user142019
I only shit poop, not humans.
 
@user190929 Linux has thousands of devs working on bug fixing... if that is what you are on about?
 
@thecoshman software avaliable for the platform. Games exempted - I KNOW that is true - but software wise, such as in graphics-making programs, or whatever else you might normally see on, say, Windows, which is what I was referring to as general use software.
 
@thecoshman Do you know a good 3-way merge GUI app for Linux?
 
8:33 PM
@thecoshman no, I think he's referring to the lack of general software/games/drivers.
 
@user190929 General software? Yeah, almost no games, no decent office suite. But meh.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked diff3?
 
diff3?
 
user142019
Oh wait GUI.
 
@Griwes Office suite as in Ms Office?
 
8:34 PM
@thecoshman I would have been happy with an answer.
 
@user190929 oh, well yes, windows hogging 90% (close enough right?) of the home user market does mean that most software is written for it first and formost
 
@MooingDuck Isn't that identical to the GNU acronym?
 
user142019
@Griwes Google Docs is decent enough for me.
 
@DeadMG yes
 
@user190929 "Office suite" is generally an unambiguous term. Sure, MS Office.
@Zoidberg Lawl.
 
8:35 PM
@StackedCrooked no I don't, is that rhetorical though?
 
@thecoshman I would have been happy with an answer.
 
@Griwes I see you have not tried Libre Office
 
I see. How about *ease of use? All about the learning, but I have heard scary tales of per-user complications and such things.
 
use of use?
fuck this shit!
 
user142019
Arch Linux + xmonad = best thing ever.
 
8:36 PM
@Zoidberg I found her.
 
@thecoshman 1) Can't really read .rtf and .docx properly 2) looks Godawful on the only sane graphical environment.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked 6.9/10 would bang, maybe.
 
(And, guess what - my uni, for example, still makes me print more .rtf's than .pdf's).
 
Apart from embedded stuff, ALL my apps run on Windows. No customer has asked for a Linux version, ever.
 
@Zoidberg I'd give her +1 for diff3
 
8:37 PM
@Griwes can't read non-native formats? you really going hold that against it? and Ms Office looks like a pile of shit too
 
user142019
public class diff3 : IBangable {}
 
@thecoshman C'mon, .rtf is OLD. And lawl @ that look something.
 
M$ Office apps start up in less than 5 secs. OpenOffice etc.....
 
user142019
LaTeX > Word/Pages/whatever.
 
Anyway, going back to more sane things than arguing over the universal truth that MS Office > any Open Office.
 
8:38 PM
Google Docs > * office
 
@Zoidberg Sure, but no Excel in LaTeX.
 
user142019
Excel? R or Haskell.
 
@StackedCrooked I am going to do that again and go away - lawl.
 
user142019
Or maybe F#.
 
There, I preordered SimCity.
 
user142019
8:39 PM
As for PowerPoint alternative, Keynote is the best. :v
 
As for Starcraft alternative, Age of Empires II is the best.
 
user142019
s/Starcraft/<insert game here>/
 
@Zoidberg You're not a real gamer, so your opinion does not count.
 
@Zoidberg lol
 
I don't want any alternatives to PowerPoint. I don't want PowerPoint.
 
8:41 PM
0
Q: Invalid Cat Exception

user2117049I am trying to 'grab' the ID field (PK) from a database after data has been entered to it. Once I get the ID, I want to input it into another table (for relationship purposes). However, my attempts are unsuccessful. This is what I'm currently doing: int CompanyID; SqlConnection con = new Sq...

 
@CatPlusPlus is invalid?
 
user142019
@Cicada lol
 
@sehe No problem. I was having a bad day too.
 
user142019
With me around, everyone has a bad day.
 
I disagree.
My day is just fine.
 
8:42 PM
Allow me to ruin it
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked :(
 
@Cicada Not again!
 
@StackedCrooked Outpost 2
 
@MooingDuck That's nerd game! ...Oh wait.
 
I gotta go again. I want to find a cat to throw and catch.
 
8:43 PM
throw baby; // don't catch
 
user142019
Exceptions suck.
 
user142019
I prefer return codes.
 
Finally someone sensible
 
user142019
Dat pun.
 
Awesome right
 
user142019
8:44 PM
Nah.
 
Well at least I tried
 
user142019
It was unintended.
 
@Zoidberg Argh.
 
user142019
(And unindented, but that aside.)
 
I made 2 puns actually
 
user142019
8:45 PM
You should make two buns too, I'm hungry.
 
You just didn't notice
Because you're that bad
 
There's a twist?
 
Ell
@Zoidberg that makes you a bad person
 
@Zoidberg Either you're trolling, which makes you a despicable person, or you're serious, which makes you an idiot.
 
alright let's throw this:
 
user142019
8:46 PM
I'm serious.
 
hf
 
user142019
Irrelevant.
 
user142019
It's about ease of use and descriptivity.
 
Nice try.
 
user142019
Dat pun.
 
user142019
8:47 PM
So many exception-related puns.
 
@Zoidberg What?
 
@Cicada :)
 
user142019
It's an exceptional amount of puns.
 
Exceptions are slower. However, they should not hinder performance since they don't happen much.
 
@Zoidberg overconfidence
 
8:47 PM
the only time return codes are safe to use is if they can be safely ignored.
 
@DeadMG Which kinda defeats the purpose.
 
user142019
I like how Go handles errors; multiple return values and unused variables are illegal. So you either ignore them explicitly or you must handle them.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not always.
there's nothing wrong with a status code, say.
for example, map::insert returns that extra bool.
that's fine because if you ignored it, and used the iterator anyway, you'd be perfectly fine.
 
Checking the return value of open(...) is probably more important than checking the return of close(...).
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked no.
 
user142019
8:50 PM
You must check for EINTR and potentially retry.
 
user142019
(As with almost every system call.)
 
If RAII is applied then close() is probably inside a destructor. So you can't throw an exception anyway.
 
if an error can't be ignored, throw it
is that really a hard thing to understand?
 
@thecoshman Argh.. my head!
 
I don't want no exceptions
 
user142019
8:51 PM
Go's error handling is superior.
 
Oh, gosh boooooring.
 
he he he
 
ho ho ho
 
ha ha ha
 
user142019
merry christmas
 
8:52 PM
@Zoidberg Or you could catch.
 
yo yo ma
 
yo ma ma
 
@Cicada oh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This is the lounge helping you get stuff done!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Didn't we have some archived discussion about how exceptions are better than return codes?
 
8:53 PM
@EtiennedeMartel several
 
We could dump that here and shut Zoidberg up.
 
I am guessing that is the Java philosophy.
 
@Zoidberg But you can't choose at which level you want to handle them.
 
^ Because fuck you Bajtek, that's why - Chrome
 
Sin transgression? Oh wait. No, I have no idea what you are talking about — sehe 6 secs ago
 
user142019
8:54 PM
@StackedCrooked you can return them.
 
@Zoidberg So ... you're basically doing all the work of the compiler in propagating exceptions.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is this some kind of a voodoo threat?!
 
@Zoidberg So you have to check each call if it failed, and return it manually?
 
It'd be interesting to implement a callback exception mechanism in C++. Also, the option to "retry" failed destruction.
 
and then you're dicking around having to duplicate all error handling code for every function call.
 
8:54 PM
@sehe I don't want to do anything else today.
 
@sehe What, Chrome doing terrible things to me?
 
and then you can't have any useful return values because every single one of them has to be an error code.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... it never rains when it pours
 
great idea!.
 
@DeadMG Go has multiple returns
 
user142019
8:55 PM
@DeadMG you can return multiple values from function.
 
@Zoidberg that's also slower in the non-exception case than exceptions.
 
@Zoidberg But you still have to return them.
 
And having to deal with both program logic and error handling breaks orthogonality.
 
@Zoidberg Great. And... if they're complex types?
 
user142019
@DeadMG what do you mean by that?
 
8:56 PM
oh man, hunger is starting to kick in, but I'm too lazy to sort out food
 
@Zoidberg I mean, you still have to find a value of that type to return.
and if that's not trivial, then fuck you.
and then you have to dick around copying it around.
 
@EtiennedeMartel There is something from the times of ChrisBecke.
 
and even if you didn't error you have to dick around copying the non-error-code.
this is basically just implementing exceptions, but by hand and slower.
 
@Zoidberg I think he means error codes that don't "default construct" to a "no error" state
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Man, I didn't consider the necessity of altering my Clang interface to support non-code-generation :(
 
8:57 PM

Exceptions

Apr 18 '11 at 3:08, 5 hours 21 minutes total – 293 messages, 14 users, 14 stars

Bookmarked Apr 18 '11 at 8:31 by R. Martinho Fernandes

5 fucking hours.
 
I don't last that long
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Woa, well, better stop that right now, then.
@Zoidberg, you're wrong. Done.
 
user142019
I'm right.
 
You'll keep being right, only it doesn't concern us
 
@sehe that's what she said
 
8:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does Haskell support exceptions?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Duh. That was the joke
 
people who are always right tend to find them selves on a magic list
 
@sehe I am not getting jokes today.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Yes but you can only catch them in the I/O monad.
 

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