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user142019
7:00 PM
I think that is acceptable for 99% of use cases.
 
user142019
Unless you're spawning a million threads.
 
user142019
(Which is 1% of use-cases. ^^)
 
@Zoidberg'-- I'd generally tend to agree -- but good to be aware of the compromise you're making.
 
user142019
 
user142019
Well it's for a scripting language (please don't kill me for using that term, I know it's a terrible term, but you get the point).
 
user142019
7:02 PM
There is probably more overhead of the interpreter than the few branches and bytes you have for a lock.
 
@Zoidberg'-- For that I'd definitely agree -- simplicity of use is almost certainly more important than eeking out the last little bit of performance.
 
user142019
In fact, sending the lock message (as in Smalltalk-style messaging) to an instance of Atom will have more overhead.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Don't forget that those ops will have to be atomic.
 
user142019
Ahyeah.
 
user142019
Uh wait.
 
7:06 PM
I'd add, however, that I think it's generally more important to provide things like atomic/lockless/concurrent data structures so the user of the language should almost never have to make explicit use of locks at all.
 
user142019
No that's not necessary.
 
user142019
if (lock.thread_id == current_thread_id) return;
lock.lock(); // blocks
 
user142019
There is no way ever another thread can set lock.thread_id to this thread's current_thread_id.
 
user142019
That would be a terrible bug.
 
no
 
user142019
7:08 PM
So there is no race condition.
 
but the bug can occur even without that
you check the thread ID, it's a match, but another thread was switched in and took the lock.
hmm, wait, I don't think that makes sense
 
user142019
If it's a match you return immediately.
 
What if lock.thread_id is null when two threads check it?
 
user142019
If match, no-op, otherwise try to lock.
 
right, but it's only a match on one thread.
 
7:09 PM
Howe often is the need for recursive locks a good idea and not a sign that the design is poor?
 
user142019
Yes, it is always a match only on one thread.
 
user142019
The comparison itself (==) must be atomic.
 
@MartinJames There isn't any problem.
@Zoidberg'-- Why?
The current thread will not acquire the lock in the middle of the comparison.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes because thread A may set it while thread B is comparing.
 
@Zoidberg'-- That means that thread B is not holding it. The comparison will return false anyway.
 
user142019
7:10 PM
Indeed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes To answer that, you'd need some agreement on what constituted good/poor design. Good luck with that.
 
user142019
But you don't yet know that because you are still comparing.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes may not be the case.
 
@Zoidberg'-- If thread B is holding it thread A cannot get a hold of it.
 
user142019
Thread A may do crazy things like setting lock.thread_id to some random value first.
 
7:12 PM
@Zoidberg'-- Oh, wait, that's a publicly writable field?
WTF.
 
user142019
Yes.
 
user142019
Well, not from the programming language itself.
 
WTF is wrong with you?
 
user142019
Only from the implementation in C.
 
Make internal state internal.
 
user142019
7:12 PM
It must still be atomic. :P
 
You just said it is publicly writable.
 
user142019
In the implementation.
 
user142019
In Zoidlang you cannot access it directly (except when you start doing idiotic pointer arithmetic).
 
Whatever. My point is that it should only ever be modified by the lock() and unlock() functions themselves, never elsewhere.
 
user142019
Ah yeah.
 
user142019
7:14 PM
Good point. :P
 
@Zoidberg'-- Is there some particularly good reason you wouldn't just use/expose an interface to the underlying implementation (e.g., a pthreads or Windows mutex)?
 
user142019
So
 
user142019
lock.acquire_and_set_thread_id_or_nop_if_already_locked_by_current_thread(); // xD
 
user142019
@JerryCoffin Green threads, not OS threads.
 
Think I solved 14, not sure I want to optimize
 
7:17 PM
@Zoidberg'-- Which prompts the same question again: is there some particularly good reason to do that?
 
@JerryCoffin They're good for the environment.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm left wondering whether you're joking, but on the off-chance that you're serious: if you insist on user-space threads from C, he should grab a copy of CThreads, and expose that.
 
@JerryCoffin Worry not, it was a 100% recycled joke.
 
Could someone suggest 'pch' as a synonym for the 'precompiled-headers' tag? I don't have a score of 5 to do so. stackoverflow.com/tags/precompiled-headers/synonyms
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Give up and consign to landfill :)
 
7:34 PM
Wait, enums convert implicitly to integral types but not back?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds diesel. I'm about to write a TTF parser and I think I'm gonna end up with the same kind of herculean monstrous stuff.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Makes sense to me.
 
@ThePhD lol, no you won't.
 
What do you mean, I won't? D:
I managed to dig up the TTF specs and there's even some byte-by-byte breakdown of basic tables. If I keep to the basic tables and ignore Hinting, I should be able to have something bare-bones workable and won't need to use GDI and other shit.
 
@DeadMG Ok, it makes some sense. But... this is a bit weird: stacked-crooked.com/view?id=267150e98b27359d5456ba818e556b02
I was expecting a promotion there.
 
user142019
7:37 PM
@JerryCoffin controlled context switches, primarily.
 
Technically, you can get it with -fpermissive, it says.
 
@ThePhD My eyes remove that before it reaches the brain.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wouldn't do any good, the compiler won't accept it even with int.
 
Repeat after me: -fpermissive does not exist.
 
user142019
7:38 PM
Since I/O is non-blocking, I can do a context switch right after each I/O operation is instantiated.
 
@DeadMG Woah, wait.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked Second.
 
@ThePhD You won't because you are doing something entirely different.
(Also, a solved problem)
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked That looks more like a task queue to me. :$
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ( I'll never use freetype, neveerrr! )
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ooh. Well, okay.
 
7:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess "strongly typed enum" is a fitting name then :)
 
Finally, -fpermissive does, uh. Maybe sort of kind've exist when the conditions are right?
 
user142019
You cannot just have a general actor.
 
@StackedCrooked But that's the catch: it isn't a strongly typed enum!
@ThePhD There are none.
I am serious.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oops, indeed.
 
The language has all the tools you need to do it right without -fpermissive.
And the tools the language gives you work locally on a case-by-case basis.
They don't go ahead and turn off the type system for a whole compilation at once.
 
7:41 PM
Alright, alright. -fpermissive does not exist.
 
-fpermissive allows you to make more mistakes.
 
@StackedCrooked Imma check the standard, but this looks like a bug.
 
Besides, freetype looks monstrous. :C
 
std::future is disabled on both boost and gcc 4.7.2 on my Mac for some mysterious reason.
 
It took me a while, but I changed all my include directives in my library from "" to <>
@StackedCrooked Apple can't have you thinking ahead now. Otherwise you might want more out of the iPhone and iPad than they give you.
 
7:44 PM
It's the GCC build provided by MacPorts. Apple is not really a party here.
 
Ah.
MacPorts. Horribly broken when I tried to build OpenCV with it.
 
I can't find anything that forbids it :/
 
At least, a year ago for an x64 platform.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think there are implicit conversions from int to enums.
 
@AndreiTita I am doing an explicit conversion.
 
7:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you make it more explicit it works: stacked-crooked.com/view?id=496f2cd80a5b1e71fa30fcee6e45faf1
 
Right, "more explicit".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You need to have the proper amount of explicit-ness, of course.
I'll check MSVC.
error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'int' to 'E'
1> Conversion to enumeration type requires an explicit cast (static_cast, C-style cast or function-style cast)
 
@ThePhD I have no idea what that means.
@ThePhD FTR, I am collecting information from an InDesign document, not reading font files manually.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked this is more of an overview in pseudo-C++, but you get the point. gist.github.com/4446494
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oooh. Working with an Adobe format must be painful. :c
 
user142019
7:52 PM
If you want data back from the actor, you need to receive too, and you need to send this to the actor in some way.
 
user142019
(At least, that is how Erlang does it.)
 
@Zoidberg'-- Actually, you're wrong. It should be fine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It means the freetype interface confuses the fuck out of me and I'll probably have to read the docs some more to understand how to work with it at all.
 
by the time the thread has actually started executing, it should be properly constructed.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Instead of using function object you use virtual methods. For the rest I don't see a real difference.
 
user142019
7:52 PM
@DeadMG isn't that a race condition?
 
@Zoidberg'-- Yes.
but I think that in practice, the thread takes so long to begin execution, you'd need a pretty heavy derived constructor.
 
@ThePhD I bet the docs are less confusing than the TTF spec (also, TTF suxors and OTF is all the rage).
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked you were sending tasks to the queue. The actor should decide itself what it does upon receiving a message.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see a lot more TTF than OTF though.
 
Because it suxors.
 
7:54 PM
@Zoidberg'-- I was sending functors which have signature Ret (T&) . That's not so much different than T::some_virtual_method().
 
user142019
Ohh wait.
 
user142019
Your messages are functions?
 
@ThePhD (More seriously, because of age reasons: TTF has been around for much longer)
 
user142019
Ah ye.
 
The advantages that TrueType brought to the table have long been rendered obsolete and worthless.
 
7:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ( Ah, and it seems OpenType is somewhat backwards-compatible with TTF. Building a OTF parser might save me a lot of work when going to TTF, and not the other way around ).
 
@Zoidberg'-- As you can see in the code.
 
I wonder if OTF has better specs, 'cause these word documents for TTF are shitty.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked wait, let me try your example with my base class.
 
@ThePhD It is an publicly available ISO standard.
 
Btw, is this sane?
template<typename F>
auto execute(F f) -> std::future<decltype(f(*static_cast<T*>(nullptr)))>
 
7:57 PM
@ThePhD Wait, wrong link.
@StackedCrooked Please use declval.
(There is no technical issue, but boy that looks ugly)
Also, packaged_task?
 
Ah, I forgot.
 
Whoa
I never knew I could direct download.
 
MHA
Hey everyone, I have a problem using OpenGL vertex attribute objects and data from a wavefront .obj file. Since VAOs can only use one index buffer (through the GL_ELEMENT_ARRAY_BUFFER binding target) I can't use the Vertex Indices and Normal Indices from the .obj file.
I thought about making some structs for keeping vertex and normal data associated but if this is the solution, how should I go about giving OpenGL the data - copy it all to an entirely new array or can arrays be linked in a smart way that can be used as a char * argument?
 
8:03 PM
Direct-downlaod the standard. Usually thought they just put them up as webpages and you had to siphon them off yourself.
 
lol
@ThePhD Usually they put them up as PDFs that you can only get after you pay.
 
At least, that's how I've been wrangling with almost all the other file formats I've dealt with, with the exception of png
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I suppose result_of would probably be even better.
 
@StackedCrooked There is a slight difference: result_of makes hard errors, decltype SFINAEs. Your pick.
 
I see.
I am using result_of now, but I'll keep it in mind if I ever run into that kind of trouble.
 
8:06 PM
The bestest idea is probably to have your own version of result_of that SFINAEs :) Then you can keep the syntactic advantage and pick the semantics.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked I wrote this example of a car server how I would do it in Erlang (though Erlang is much more concise :P): gist.github.com/4446649
 
user142019
(The car consumer should probably acquire a car server through its ctor or through a message or something, though. Depending on what you want to do.)
 
Bleh.
I would use DirectWrite but it seems to only have plugs mainly for Direct2D
maybe I can get around it and make it with with D3D
Blarrgggh even he custom text render expects Direct2D structures!
Fuck it, back to reading the OTF spec.
 
user142019
In this case messages are pairs of <actor, string> where actor is the sender and string is the request.
 
@Zoidberg'-- OK. I don't do any serialization because I'm in the same process. But I guess for a genuine actor design IPC is crucial.
 
user142019
8:10 PM
You can send messages between processes, sure. You will indeed need serialization for that, but you can make that all transparent by implementing send and receive.
 
user142019
And you can use actor proxies that forward to other processes, if that's required.
 
user142019
(Or just unique identifiers and a free function send.)
 
user142019
If you are able to serialize lambdas in some way you can do hot swapping. :^)
 
TABLE-FLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP.
> 4.3 Data types The following data types are used in the OFF font file. All OFF fonts use big-endian (network byte order):
(network byte order)
FUCK big-endian!
 
I thought you had solved that problem before.
 
8:14 PM
I have, but STILL.
WHY do people INSIST on big-endian?!
Wrrryyyyy
;~;
 
user142019
@ThePhD big-endian is more logical to humans.
 
@ThePhD Why do people insist on getting upset over things that aren't going to change?
 
@Zoidberg'-- I'm not going to read my integers as a human. My computer is going to read them. =l
And do math.
 
user142019
Also.
 
user142019
 
user142019
8:17 PM
IOW: deal with it.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, this ought to be different.
 
user142019
fuck
 
@JerryCoffin I dunno. But I just can't imagine who first came up with big-endian back in they day. If I had Time-Travel, that's the person I would assassinate first. The person who, in that meeting, says "Hey, we should order the bytes in this wa HURK" And then little-endian would dominate the market for all eternity.
 
lol, how naïve.
 
I'm also upset by your comment!
 
8:19 PM
@ThePhD Do you think that if there was only one person that thought big endian was a good idea it would be this common?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe. I would hope so. Otherwise the past will be in a lot of trouble when time travel is figured out.
 
eh
IMO big-endian vs little-endian really doesn't matter, it would just be nice if everybody used just one
 
Wow this OTF spec is so nice.
I can't be angry at it anymore, it's so descriptive and nice to me.
 
@DeadMG Just be glad that PDPs are no more.
 
lol
 
8:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes This was the worst of the endian bunch. I'm glad they killed it. I have no idea who thought that would ever be a good idea, and how they managed to justify it to hardware makers.
 
There are girl(s) in the C# room, there are also a substantial group of virgin coders. Not ideal, not ideal at all :(
 
@ThePhD 01/03/2013, just saying.
 
@ThePhD What? You don't like "middle endian"? Actually, you have things backwards though: it was the hardware people who thought it up in the first place.
 
@JerryCoffin Those hardware designers need to burn.
Buuuurnnnn for their siiiiiiiiiiiiiins.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's just silly. What happens when we reach the year 10K?
 
@ThePhD If you fail to appreciate the elegance of the PDP in general (especially the PDP-11) then you're the one who needs to burn. To this day it's one of the nicest architectures ever invented (drastically superior to the x86).
 
8:31 PM
I just wrote static_cast<variable>(type)... oops.
 
lolnub
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Worse, you did it again to post it here. Reinforcing bad behavior...
 
@ThePhD Nothing in particular?
That was a rendering of today's date, btw. In middle endian, aka Merkin format.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cool, I'll do it too!
 
user142019
class variable {} type;
 
user142019
8:36 PM
You solve it this way. Think outside the box.
 
@JerryCoffin I don't see how. Was it nicer to program with, faster? Easier to use? What made Middle-Endian useful?
 
@ThePhD The one used on your machine is always transparent.
 
@ThePhD It's generally accepted that x86 is a ridiculous hodge-podge.
 
@JerryCoffin OTOH, there was never a PDP11 processor that you could carry in your pocket like an 8086, (though try not to use a back pocket - those 40 pins could make a nice,but painful, pattern on your ass).
 
So, it is pretty much irrelevant, as you never actually need to deal with it. (If you do you are a dumbass)
@MartinJames lol
 
8:40 PM
@ThePhD The PDP-11 was extremely nice to program with, and (given the level of technology of the time) quite fast for the money. Middle endianness wasn't a good thing in itself, but you rarely had to worry about it either.
 
@DeadMG .. driven by backwards compatibility.
 
of course
it's like C++- a giant fucking mess, but still compatible.
 
@DeadMG I love the segment descriptor structures.
 
what surprised me, though
was that they didn't overhaul it for x64
I mean, you have to recompile anyway.
 
8:42 PM
I wonder if an i7 can still execute 8080 code?
 
@MartinJames Well, actually there was -- Western Digital built a two-chip implementation of the PDP-11. One chip had all the logic, the other was a microcode ROM. Odd trivia: the same logic unit with a different microcode ROM formed a Western Digital MicroEngine, which executed Pascal P-code in hardware.
 
Notice how the "Base" field (same as "Base address") is broken all over the place.
 
@MartinJames I believe so.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How do I notice that? Oh, you mean broken-up into pieces.
 
@MartinJames Yes.
@StackedCrooked By looking at it?
 
8:43 PM
@MartinJames Not directly, no. Even for an 8088, you needed to do a little translation (though NEC built some x86 compatible processors that could also execute Z80 binaries directly).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought you meant broken design.
 
@StackedCrooked Kinda fits, too.
:P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then note that the minute paging got involved, a segment's base address became basically just useless garbage anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, but it is still there, and still mandatory.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exactly.
 
8:45 PM
@JerryCoffin P-code.. 'hey, this is a good idea, but doesn't sound sexy enough - we'll change the syntax and call it Java'
 
@MartinJames s/change/break/. FTFY.
 
Hm.
So I can test x64 compatibility by trying to ping the R-flagged registers in a computer
and I can test x128 register compatiblity (SIMD) by pinging the XMM registers.
Neato, I never knew that.
 
Using CPUID is probably recommended.
 
I guess.
Which reminds me, I do not know how to mix asm and regular C++ code.
 
That is compiler dependent.
 
8:50 PM
That is, I don't understand yet how to compile x64 asm code and then use those functions in C++ code.
Oh, well then. Nevermind about portability~
 
@ThePhD You want inline asm and portability?
 
@ThePhD That is assembler dependent.
Oh.. inline, OK.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't want to do inline asm. I wanted to write some ASM code and then see if I could compile it and 'use' it in my C++ code.
 
@ThePhD You use whatever functionality your assembler gives you to export symbols and then declare them in C++ (probably with extern "C" unless you want to mangle them manually).
 
Not the slightest clue how to do that though, and I've never written assembler either, so.
 
8:51 PM
Can't you just assemble it and link it in then?
 
@MartinJames Yeah, that's it.
 
@MartinJames Could be. Like I said, I'm clueless. :3
If I figure it out though, I'll show you all some asm and mess with the XMM registers directly!
... Right after I fork through OTF>
 
@ThePhD Given the x64 ABI (i.e., how they've decided to pass parameters) it's quite ugly to deal with. I'd avoid it if you have any choice.
 
@JerryCoffin Use only void() functions and globals!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wimp!
 
8:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds to me like somebody's having withdrawal symptoms from not having seen/heard the Plonk Fish in too long! :-)
 
..though if I had to call an 11-argument function with no docs, I'd probably use globals as well :)
 
anyone here use a micro git?
 
Is that a Chinese compact car?
 
@MartinJames :(
 
9:08 PM
@StackedCrooked Awesomesauce.
 
user142019
Valgrind is funny.
 
user142019
> valgrind: the 'impossible' happened:
 
@StackedCrooked Was that peer reviewed already? Or is it another neutrinos-faster-than-bad-cables kind of discovery?
 
Temp < absolute zero. Hmm.. were the scientists running Valgrind on their detectors?
 
9:14 PM
> So negative abs temp is achieved by going through +infinity temp and coming back via -infinity temp.
@StackedCrooked I am not sure comments on Hacker News are very reliable.
 
Agreed.
Almost seems like April 1st.
 
NAT - not a temperature.
 
It seems that it's about relative temperatures. A cold relative to a hot one.
Whatever.
 
ALRIGHT
I converted all my #include directives
to be library-suitable
 
In physics, certain systems can achieve negative temperature; that is, their thermodynamic temperature can be expressed as a negative quantity on the kelvin scale. In colloquial usage, "negative temperature" may refer to temperatures that are expressed as negative numbers on the more familiar degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit scales, with values that are colder than the zero points of those scales but still warmer than absolute zero. By contrast, a system with a truly negative temperature in absolute terms on the kelvin scale is hotter than any system with a positive temperature. If a negat...
 
9:18 PM
and not use #include "PartyTime.h"
 
> I understand it less now.
Best comment in the whole thread.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's like some sort of science fiction.
 
Yeah, the Rodenberry is strong in the comments.
 
!
I came up with a concept for something!
Now I have to
.. .... draw... it. :C
Wtb artist.
 
@ThePhD ... fix your spelling.
 
9:24 PM
FTFM.
 
Sorry, a private github repository
Trying to find some way to host things online that can be accessed with a password
i.e. not automatically public
 
Bitbucket has unlimited free private repositories.
 
What are your thoughts on github vs. bitbucket?
Haven't heard of the latter
 
Github is good if you code is open-source and not meant to be kept to yourself.
 
You can pay for private repos and shit on GitHub.
 
9:31 PM
Bitbucket is much nicer in regard to being flexible with what gets stored and how, and even offers free team-collab for groups of people (up to some 10 if you invite others, 5 by default)
 
So if my code is not really meant to be "open-source" (in the sense of teams of people using code to build new applications or whatever) and it's moreso there as "something to use / proof of concept"
bitbucket is better?
 
user142019
Ah, good old goto cleanup;.
 
Private/public and open-/closed-source are orthogonal.
 
I want to be able to share code, but only if they know the key/pass/etc
 
Then make it private.
On GitHub they take no rights over your data.
On Bitbucket they take a license to do many things with it (if related to providing you the hosting).
 
9:47 PM
really? I didn't know that
what kind of things?
 
Store it, modify it, stuff like that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Basically things that they need to do to provide a code repository service?
 
Woot 12 hats. I'm doing nuttin' to get them :)
 
> End User hereby grants Atlassian a non-exclusive license to copy, distribute, perform, display, store, modify, and otherwise use End User Data in connection with operating the Hosted Services.
 
(that's technically a lie, I suppose)
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's... promiscuous
 
9:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
It's not like I care (I put my code under CC0 anyway), but it doesn't seem evil.
 
I don't think it is either
Reddit has the same clause but they say it's for legal issues and they don't really do it
 
@Rapptz It seems to me the key phrase is "in connection with operating the Hosted Services."
 
@Rapptz Yeah, it's one of those protections against silly lawyers.
 
@Rapptz And reddit is incomparable. You don't 'store' your IP there
 
9:52 PM
So it sounds like they still can't do whatever they want with it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Oooh! They displayed some of my code in a pull request! Shame on BB!"
 
@sehe You don't look deep enough.
 
Unless they somehow interpret "in connection with operating the Hosted Services" as something more than providing the repository service.
 
@Rapptz IP = Intellectual Property?
 
9:53 PM
Oh I see.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm imitating a silly lawyer
 
(dunno whether BB does pull requests)
 
@sehe Nope, IP = Influence Points
 
Now I have no idea what to use ;-;
 
9:54 PM
> We claim no intellectual property rights over the material you provide to the Service. Your profile and materials uploaded remain yours. However, by setting your pages to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view your Content. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and fork your repositories.
 
@Borgleader Well, it was my line. I get to decide
 
This is the relevant clause from the GitHub terms.
 
@KaliMa GH
 
But is it really worth $7/mo?
 
Make your own repository hosting service
:)
 
9:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's a lot clearer
@Rapptz 's what I have done for years
 
@sehe The GitHub terms are very readable in general.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not just that. Also a lot less room for misinterpretation. IMO
 
Yeah, that's what I meant. No wishy-washy lawyerspeak.
> You must be a human. Accounts registered by "bots" or other automated methods are not permitted.
 
lawyerspeak is the worst
so much ambiguity it's annoying
 
I can't understand legal speak either.
 

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