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12:07 AM
You've earned the "Enthusiast" badge
Being jobless finally pays off.
 
12:18 AM
lulz
 
user1182183
um does anyone know some casino games for windows which can be played on LAN? :P
 
@GamErix no one wants to write them anymore
10 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/coder-charged-for-gambling-software/ Fuck lawyers.
 
user1182183
@sehe I had an CD with casino games for windows 98 but I threw it away a few month ago -.-' now I regret it
 
soooo.... finally a worthwhile project to program
 
user1182183
ye I think so, how hard can it be to make a simple blackjack game
 
12:25 AM
ask a college freshman
 
user1182183
in php I did it with 700 lines of code, which had many bugs because I suck at php
 
user142019
Man.
 
user142019
Databases are terrible.
 
user1182183
@Zoidberg'-- but useful
 
user142019
I just want to store objects and not think about them.
 
12:26 AM
@GamErix -ful, even
 
user1182183
@sehe oh ok :$
 
@Zoidberg'-- think object persistence, like Prevayler or Bamboo.NET?
 
user1182183
@Zoidberg'-- you can store binary data in a db?
 
user1182183
so just write the bytes of the object there and read it again XD
 
user142019
db.save(my_ticket);
redirect(url_for(ticket));
 
12:28 AM
Talking down people with issues is really, really fucking hard, and I don't get paid enough to do it. ._.
 
user142019
Where my_ticket can just be any object with string, list, dictionary, number whatever data members.
 
@ThePhD Talking people down is never very useful, IMO
 
@sehe I tell myself that sometimes, but - and it's really my fault and only my fault - I always go to try and help. And I always instantly regret my decision.
 
user142019
Also damn transactions.
 
user142019
MongoDB would be perfect if it had fucking transactions.
 
12:30 AM
Transactions?
 
user142019
And RavenDB is perfect except it doesn't run on Mono.
 
@Zoidberg'-- I think Prevalence/Prevayler had STM-like capabilities
 
user142019
@sehe Let's see.
 
user142019
ewwww java :P
 
12:31 AM
@sehe I worked out a general escaping algorithm. (It's not very pragmatic of me to do this, but I kinda got into it.)
It's rather simple.
 
@Zoidberg'-- The concept comes-from Java. However, implementations of a prevalence layer exist for other platforms. Basically, it's a memory mapped view of binary serialized objects in memory
@StackedCrooked cough
 
user142019
What if I want to persist them on disk?
 
@StackedCrooked it's not base64, base92 or hex, right? It's not even MIME... muhahaha
 
user142019
Oh there is also a Ruby implementation. :3
 
@Zoidberg'-- memory mapped --> instant saved at all times.
 
12:33 AM
@sehe But it works!
 
user142019
@sehe ohh mmap cool.
 
@StackedCrooked i don't doubt it. having a look later
 
user142019
But can I also unload objects from memory when I don't need them and reload them from disk when I need them again?
 
@sehe It will recursively generate longer escape chains as long as it finds an original occurrence of the escape chain in the text.
 
user142019
I don't want to fill RAM.
 
12:34 AM
@Zoidberg'-- virtual memory :)
 
user142019
Ahyeah.
 
@Zoidberg'-- RAM is just a cache of the disk.
 
@Zoidberg'-- You can always. Remember, it's just about instantiating objects. If you don't want them in memory, just destroy the objects. Of course, then you might want to serialize to 'offline' persistence.
 
user1182183
hm is there something like a C++ php extension so I can write .cpp files and the web server will run it?
 
user142019
There is CGI.
 
user1182183
12:36 AM
php just sucks, cmon it doesn't even have VECTORS
 
user1182183
and the variable scopes, oh God, please, why.
 
In C++ a nice toy project would combine a 'prevalence layer' (through a custom allocator + std::scoped_allocator) and perhaps protobuf for offline serialization... Hmmm
@GamErix Klone, PoCo HttpServerPages. And another one which I keep forgetting.
Oh and Google Native Client
 
@GamErix Doesn't it have arrays?
 
user142019
A way to implement what I want is to keep a hash table <id, object> of all objects in memory. When you try to access an object not in the hash table, it will load it from disk.
 
user1182183
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes but those are just maps, I don't need maps in many cases :o
 
user142019
12:38 AM
Each object has a unique ID which is always the same for that exact object.
 
@Zoidberg'-- but that fails to address transactions and persistence
@Zoidberg'-- like a .... uuid
 
user142019
Yes a UUID.
 
user1182183
I srsly needed to do HARD THINKING on how to make a simple DrawCard function, which would be easy as hell in C++...
 
user1182183
even C.
 
@GamErix easy as hell in C++? C++ doesn't even do graphics
 
user1182183
12:40 AM
@sehe it's not about the graphics but internals -.-'
 
@GamErix In other news: you say it required... so it's done? That's impressive
 
user1182183
php isn't graphics too, it has to echo html code :X
 
I'd bail out and use unicode to render cards on the terminal :)
 
user1182183
@sehe yeah but it's not bug free
 
user1182183
somehow
 
user142019
12:40 AM
Saving is explicit. Not sure about transactions indeed.
 
That's how I did my first chess UI
@Zoidberg'-- cough. maps don't save. Jesus does
 
user1182183
sometimes I get 2 the same card which shouldn't be possible ; o
 
apparently it is possible
 
user1182183
yep
 
You know....
17 mins ago, by sehe
soooo.... finally a worthwhile project to program
^ that was a joke...
 
12:43 AM
Heylo
 
hat's near Appingedam? Apparently not. Just browsing the site?
 
user1182183
@sehe in cpp i would just do vector.erase() and vector.push_back / front and in php you have to do it with array stuff -.-' totally not-cool.
 
@GamErix meh. they're different languages+libraries. You're telling me you're having to learn new stuff? *Shock*
 
@sehe Me? More or less
 
user1182183
@sehe Well people always said php is soo advanced with soo many features, yet when you need something it just isn't there always, not the case with C++ :P
 
12:46 AM
@GamErix you're lacking google fu, my friend. PHP has rather complete support. It' just that the realizations suck so bad
 
@GamErix That could be said for most languages... there are tradeoffs between conveniences, but for the most part, there's all sorts of support. Just a matter of finding the right tool that suits your needs.
 
user142019
As for relationships, I will use this and load them lazily:
 
user142019
class Proxy
    def initialize(object_id, store)
        @object_id = object_id
        @store = store
    end

    def method_missing(name, *args)
        obj = @store.load(@object_id)
        obj.send(name, *args)
    end
end
 
user142019
Then everything is transparent.
 
@Zoidberg'-- why, the fork, are you using Ruby now
 
user142019
12:52 AM
I was already using Ruby.
 
Oh. Why :)
 
user142019
To implement this data store I've always wanted.
 
@Zoidberg'-- I thought you didn't like Ruby?
 
user142019
I do like Ruby.
 
Rube Zoidberg Device
I think we need to propose a spelling fix en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg
 
12:53 AM
Nothing wrong with Ruby...
...other than the fact it isn't Python
 
I used to love Ruby but this love has waned.
 
waned/washed out/faded
 
Because i never use Ruby.
 
Even Berlusconi uses Ruby
2
 
user142019
With this store I'll be able to store any arbitrary object that consists of only strings, numbers, symbols, blobs, Booleans, other such objects and arrays and dictionaries of these types.
 
user142019
12:54 AM
And they'll get an ID and I can query them from the store if I want.
 
My work languages have become C++, JavaScript and Bash.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Now, call these objects 'relations' and the dictionaries 'tables with indices'
 
user142019
And I won't have to give a fuck about anything. I can just call Store#find, Store#save and Store#unload.
 
user142019
Only thing I have to figure out is destroying objects.
 
@StackedCrooked That's a weird combination. How does C++ and bash meet JS?
 
user142019
12:56 AM
Other objects may refer to them.
 
@sehe Google Chrome Plugin and Coliru lead to JavaScript.
 
@StackedCrooked wokay
 
Why is that such a common misspelling?
 
Dunno why Bash. Everytime I need a scripting job I am too lazy to use scripting language and end up trying to do it in Bash. It's the most immediately available language.
Apparently zsh is better.
But I feel reluctant to try it out because I'm familiar with bash :P
 
12:59 AM
@AndreiTita "wokay"? it's sounds like what you'd sloppy say for 'well, okay"
 
@sehe "codes"
 
A bit like "mmmkay" if you want to make it sound deliberated/doubting
@AndreiTita Oh I hate that. It's probably SO slang by now. I'm pretty certain that kind of 'shorthand English' originated in India/thereabout
 
@AndreiTita My program doesn work, gimme the codes pls.
 
gimme teh codez
 
@StackedCrooked iddqd
 
1:01 AM
"I have a code". Not nearly as bad as "I show you how to make a programings"
 
Also "pls" gets on my nerves
@sehe lol
 
Uhoh. Everbody take shelter. Potential drunk entering
 
Ell
hi Guise
 
user142019
lol
 
@AndreiTita Lack of linguistic intuition. No language insight..
 
1:03 AM
We have too many pinned messages. Which one shall we drop? The book, I wager
 
Ell
@sehe I hope its not me you're talking about ;)
 
@sehe You don't like it?
 
@StackedCrooked Or just unfamiliarity or foreign bias in language intuition...
@StackedCrooked Can't see any other stars
 
You mean pinned items?
Or just stars?
Remove the cop.
 
@StackedCrooked cop?
:6997096 That's not pinned
2 mins ago, by sehe
We have too many pinned messages. Which one shall we drop? The book, I wager
^ That
:6997100 Drop down arrow, permalink
:6997101 Never do
30 secs ago, by Andrei Tita
Lol nvm.
 
1:06 AM
@sehe I would let it be for now.
 
@StackedCrooked I would too, obviously (or it'd be gone). However, it annoys me no end that we have so many pins and they're all overly verbose
 
Or, maybe the book can go.
 
Book room see here
9
 
It's been here for so long and we have been desensitized too much.
 
Ell
maybe reword them?
 
1:08 AM
@StackedCrooked unconscious? subconsciously, perhaps
@Ell Slow :)
 
@sehe lol, my mistake
 
Ell
oh I blame my unreliable phone signal >.<
 
C++~03 job in Berlin? Talk to the ape
4
 
Sleep deprivation severely impacts my ability to form sentences.
Good!
 
@StackedCrooked I can relate!
 
1:10 AM
It gets worse the longer I stay awake.
 
@sehe ambiguous?
 
@sbi I took the liberty to reword some of (your) pinned items to take less screen real estate. I hope it doesn't bother you (too much)
 
You did not happen to have done Problem 17?
 
@JohanLarsson How? It's meant to suggest 'mainly' c++03, for now
 
@sehe I have seen more than one ape here but that is not going to be a problem
 
1:12 AM
@JohanLarsson Oh, but it's not ambiguous. There's only one with the status of regular.
 
@sehe C++03 is a turnoff. (Even though it's like this in most places.)
 
@sehe Talk to The ape?
 
@StackedCrooked Which is why I qualified. I know they're busy trying to move in some boost. So it's not all that bad. But I guess they'll be doing C++03 for quite some time to come
 
I'm not very serious btw :)
 
@sehe You qualified. You don't mean you applied, do you?
You surely qualify for most C++ jobs.
Because if everybody is going to Berlin then I'm going too.
> It's all fun and games until someone conquers China.
Lol where did that come from?
 
1:16 AM
Cat's playing Civ, apparently.
 
@StackedCrooked I don't and I didn't. To qualify something often means to "add adjectives/adverbs" (qualifications) - much like std:: qualifies swap in std::swap and declspec(dllimport) qualifies your declaration
 
@sehe would you go back to c++ after doing C#?
 
@StackedCrooked The Cat said it about a game, IIRC
@JohanLarsson Absolutely. I've been doing C++ for 50% of my working career (~15 years). And I must say, I like it. Best of both worlds is: combine it
 
You even want to do it?
 
C# must be like Disneyland. I bet it's fun but you don't want to stay there forever.
4
 
1:18 AM
@JohanLarsson Absolutely. My fingers are frequently ithcing to get some of the grunt work shifted to native code
@StackedCrooked Oh I could stay there forever. I just fancy C++ a lot.
 
Is there anything fun that is worth staying at forever, to be fair?
 
Good point
 
I know very little C and C++ but I feel I must have a very good reason to start failing at writing c++
 
@MarcusStuhr lispers say with lisp I heard
 
Why have I never heard of a tree-based index-addressable storage? It seems viable and useful.
 
1:19 AM
Of course. That may be the thing. It's about cognitive dissonance, as so often is the case: I've so much experience invested in C++ that (a) I'd hate to let it slip away (b) I can actually use it without taking a productivity hit
 
@MooingDuck Maybe you weren't listening when it was mentioned?
 
@StackedCrooked They stay there for the same reason people stay in a labyrinth forever. They can't find the exit
 
That killed the room
 
Sorry.
 
1:25 AM
Three Hail Mary-s
 
I was going to reply and reference Theseus and string, but decided against it >.>
 
Ah admit it. You are lazy. Just suggesting the reference is easier :)
 
I don't feel compelled to try out the D programming language. Am I alone in this?
 
@StackedCrooked Like this: :D?
 
1:27 AM
YesNO!!
 
@StackedCrooked I don't have a need. It looks nice enough to me, but I'd rather get far more acquinted with the Python ecosystem
 
I wonder why. Despite all the nice feature I feel like I wouldn't gain much from it.
 
@StackedCrooked Too similar, is my splanation
 
@sehe Yes, Python interests me as well.
I want to learn Bash , Python and Linux.
 
Python and C++ <3
 
1:28 AM
@StackedCrooked Skip bash or s/bash/sh(POSIX)/ and focus more on the other UNIX utils
 
@MarcusStuhr Yeah, I should learn how to combine these
 
xD Hah
 
@sehe You mean like tr?
 
@sehe Haha, they actually do have things like Cython
 
1:29 AM
@StackedCrooked Yup. And bc. And paste. And col. And sort. And uniq. And wc. And nl. And find. And xargs. And xjobs. And not awk
@MarcusStuhr I'm thinking more of Boost.Python, Swig++
 
I know 1 awk command: '{print $1}'
If you count $2, $3, etc. then I know much more of them.
@sehe What?
 
@StackedCrooked For Pete's sake. Prefer Perl even to awk
Perl is sane compared to sed/awk like critters.
 
user142019
Awesome saving objects works. :D
 
@sehe That one awk command I know is serving me pretty well though.
 
@Zoidberg'-- The idea of transactions
@StackedCrooked cut -f1
 
1:32 AM
@sehe You should really make it clear when you're joking like this. For a moment I thought you were serious (and insane).
 
@sehe cut is not as reliable
Or maybe I've been using it wrong.
 
Anyone else use VBA/Excel?
 
I always try it with cut -d ' ' -f ..
 
user142019
@sehe I don't have those yet. I have this now. gist.github.com/4449173
 
However, maybe it's the -d that is causing unpredictable results.
 
1:33 AM
@MarcusStuhr I use Excel when I can't find a way to avoid it. So far I've managed to pretty much avoid VBA.
 
I also use Google.
 
@JerryCoffin sanity can be defined relatively. That's dead serious. awk and sed are horrific to get any job done. Apart, maybe, from (awk:) single column extraction (Perl does that handily too) and (sed:) single substitution/pattern deletion
 
user142019
I will also have to store the name class of the object. And then I can deserialize them!
 
@MarcusStuhr Yup. Used to be a pro. Not much has changed but the Ribbon interface, so I guess I could still do a trick or two
 
I don't like sed. I can't figure out whether I need to escape or not.
 
1:34 AM
@StackedCrooked That. (But vim regex has the same peculiarities. Basically, it's the archaic form of regexen, and you can switch to Perl5 mode in GNU sed IIRC)
 
I know find, wc, sort, uniq and xargs. Never heard of bc, paste, col and xjobs.
 
I love Excel/VBA mostly because of all the cross-processing you can do with things like Solver and web-data imports -- although automation via Python/Selenium/Mechanize is awesome too
 
@StackedCrooked But flow control is (a) surprising (b) very limited in sed. Yes, you can do most things but you'll have to shuffle the few registers very cleverly
 
@sehe I'm left nearly speechless. The only time I can even imagine preferring perl to awk would be if obfuscation were required (or at least desired). Offhand, about the only thing I can think of that I'd say is usually a worse tool than perl would be PHP, and even that's not consistently worse (or much worse when it is).
 
@MarcusStuhr I used Selenium and Solver. Never tried Mechanize before
@JerryCoffin I never said I like perl.
I just hate awk
It's on par with php in my view, but it has far fewer features. Sic.
 
1:37 AM
Maybe it's just my own anti-PHP bias but I can't imagine why more people don't just switch to Python
 
6 mins ago, by sehe
@StackedCrooked For Pete's sake. Prefer Perl even to awk
^ that's knowing I severely dislike perl
 
One of the most powerful tools IMO are Vim macros.
I've done shit you won't believe.
 
@StackedCrooked Which I also kinda hate, but they're so damn useful I use them all the time
 
@StackedCrooked Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion? Watch c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate?
 
@StackedCrooked I will. You got nuttin' on me
 
1:38 AM
@StackedCrooked You are very correct.
 
@sehe It would appear to me that your hatred has blinded you to reality -- while awk is mildly distasteful, it's hard to imagine anything in the way of objective/factual support for claiming that it's even close to as bad as PHP or perl.
 
"very correct". That's an odd qualification
 
user1182183
um does anyone know (or have a link to a tutorial) how to setup CGI on xampp to serve C++ .cgi scripts? :X
 
@JerryCoffin Besides the fact that you can do shit? If you want something to program in, at least pick something likely Turing complete. And something that supports named variables and structured programming (without archaic BEGIN/END fixed magic markers). lisp, python, csharp, ruby all come to mind. To me, perl is the slightly less insane option over shell script. Of course, a proper language is preferred
 
1:41 AM
Did @sehe shorten all hte pinned starred links?
 
@ThePhD Yup. Just the two
 
@JerryCoffin I have the impression Perl is not as universally hated as, say, PHP or VBScript.
 
@sehe Do you honestly believe awk isn't Turing complete? (if so, you're clearly completely wrong). And of course, awk supports named variables, and of course it supports structured programming (BEGIN and END have nothing to do with structured programming at all).
 
I wouldn't say Perl is hated -- just treated with indifference. PHP tends to earn more flak.
 
That reminds me, I read that sed is Turing complete. There's also a Tetris game written in sed.
 
1:44 AM
@StackedCrooked It probably isn't -- but almost certainly should be (e.g., how many other languages can you name that are in regular use where even just parsing the language has been proven undecidable?)
 
@StackedCrooked That sounds like a job I'd love to skip. I focus on the actual tasks, hardly ever on 'layout-y' things like tab positioning etc. But I reckon you should have gotten somewhere with either :se switchbuf=usetab,useopen | lockmarks silent! execute 'tabopen ' . filename | tabmove 999 | wincmd #
 
@sehe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK "Although AWK and sed were designed to support one-liner programs, even the early Bell Labs users of AWK often wrote well-structured large AWK programs, and despite its limited intended area of use, AWK is Turing-complete."
 
@sehe Hey, are you tellin me I do useless thing?
 
@StackedCrooked Nope. i'm telling you, I probably couldn't do that, because I simply cannot muster the motivation to 'tame' a UI. It's not my interest.
Doing editing tasks very efficiently, though, is another matter
@MarcusStuhr I'm pretty sure it is. Brainfuck, also, is Turing Complete. I'm saying: I've yet to see a really enticing piece of Awk code. And when I do (because you guys are sure to link me to it in seconds) that will never give me the incentive to learn that particular brand of archaic tools, instead of, say Python, Haskell and even Javascript
 
@sehe I'd agree with you
 
1:48 AM
One of the cool things I recently did with Vim was wrapping the code of a project in a namespace.
 
user1182183
if my rep gets below 20 again because I give a nice bounty, will I be unable to enter the chat? XD
 
@StackedCrooked C++? That's slightly trickier depending on the cleannes of the code base (#if/#endifs...)
@GamErix Yes.
 
user1182183
@sehe bah :x
 
Jun 3 '12 at 18:08, by StackedCrooked
I opened a file which contained a list of all my source files. Then I moved the cursor to the top left of the file and recorded my macro as follows: Duplicate current tab. Open the file under cursor. Go to bottom of file. Search for #include upwards. Insert text below for opening namespace. Go to bottom of file. Insert new line above the current one and put text for closing namespace. Close current file. Move cursor one line down. End of macro. Repeat baby!
 
@StackedCrooked Although, admittedly, that could be seen as abusing vim as a stream editor (I do that all the time).
 
1:51 AM
@StackedCrooked Have you ever looked into automation macro tools like AutoIt?
 
@MarcusStuhr Never heard of that.
 
Definitely worth looking into, IMO
 
@sehe Yeah, it makes some assumptions about that.
 
I frequently use vim as my swiss army knife. Basically, I have no trouble using (l)vimgrep, argdo, :g//m$, :sort r u //` and stuff like that to quickly produce stats. I won't even shy away from summing a vertical column of numbers using a pipe to bc
 
Is it hard to make guis in C++?
 
1:53 AM
@Crowz Yes
 
@Borgleader would you recommend a noob stay with java?
 
@Crowz It is hard to make GUIs from scratch in any language.
 
Because all GUI libraries suck :P
 
Holding Shift-J for a few seconds in order to concat a list feels a little sloppy. Yet I do it from time to time.
 
1:53 AM
@JohanLarsson WPF is either C# or C++/CX
 
I always thought GUI support was better handled in things like C#
 
@Crowz Not if you're also a Java noob
 
@sehe I don't know any of those commands.
I'm still a noob :P
 
I guess you could do a C# UI and a C++ DLL, not sure how easy that would be.
 
@Borgleader ok true but I like wpf, a bit of a learning curve though
 
1:55 AM
@sehe I think I know my way around java enough... java guis are easymode.
 
@JohanLarsson Oh don't get me wrong I love WPF
 
@Borgleader It would drain your life energy and you would become a human plant.
 
I'm just saying it can't be used in pure C++
 
The problem I'm having is making a slider and then re-rendering an image based on the slider.
 
user142019
Awesome, both serialization and deserialization work! Now checking proxies.
 
1:55 AM
https://gist.github.com/4089391
line 41 should be adjustable with slider.
 
@StackedCrooked basically, the Ex family of commands (commandline) are crazy powerful and way underused. I consider textfiles almost like an object database, containing functions, paragraphs, classes, scopes, blocks etc.
@Crowz Then I'd stay with Java for anything performance unrelated. Start with non-gui tasks to learn C++
@StackedCrooked Not true. C++/CLI isn't as bad as everybody want to make it look
 
user142019
Hurray it workz! gist.github.com/4449280
 
@Crowz wait for a falling star
 
@sehe I bet you are familiar with this blog then.
 
@Zoidberg'-- looks neat. I don't actually speak Ruby (anymore)
 
1:58 AM
@sehe huh?
 
user142019
It lazily loads objects stored on disk.
 
user142019
Objects are stored once so you can reference them from anywhere you want.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Anywhere?
 
@StackedCrooked Nope. I've just read the vimdocs front to back, more than once. And Stack Overflow helps honing the skills a lot. ZyX, Romainl, them guys are wicked
@Crowz Then your wish might be granted
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked well, in any other objects you store in the same store. References are automatically resolved when you access properties of objects.
 
1:59 AM
@sehe I've learned many tricks from SO as well.
 

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