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5:00 PM
Kind? Family? What really are those things called?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes IOW: even if it's not always entirely on his own, most of the answers he provides are (at least eventually) quite good.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but rebinding gives you a new instance right? And since we have scoped allocators, you can't just make and destroy them left and right anymore.
 
Although that might just be QoI and an implementation could go out of its way to do two allocations I suppose.
 
@LucDanton so they don't use the allocator you give it to allocate space for the nodes? Because that would include the data. Seems useless. I feel certain that's wrong.
 
Oh; I suppose the allocator for elements is used for construction/destruction.
 
5:01 PM
Allocators are complicated, let's go shopping.
 
@MooingDuck I imagine any non-pathological case would need that data to construct the rebound allocator.
 
@LucDanton That would mean std::map would not allocate anything using the allocator you gave it
 
Yes. That's a desirable feature and a sign of QoI.
You want less allocations, not more.
 
that... but...
 
@MooingDuck You need to answer more things so I can upvote more things.
 
5:02 PM
I suppose we should now refer to your avatar icon.
 
It's a sitting duck!
 
@LucDanton if I write std::map<int, char, boost::magic_allocator> I want it to allocate using that freaking allocator, not just use the standard allocator!
 
Where do the std::pair<const int, char> come from then?
 
@LucDanton they should be allocated with a boost::magic_allocator<std::pair<const int, char>>
 
And no, they don't come from the Standard allocator. Are you sure you understand rebinding allocators?
 
5:04 PM
@LucDanton apperently not, I thought rebinding gave you a new type, and you had to create an instance of that new type
 
@MooingDuck Then that magic_allocator will provide for that.
To clarify: there is no actual problem.
 
Those are the best problems.
 
@MooingDuck Yeah. And it doesn't have to be the Standard allocator.
 
There is an allocator called boost::magic_allocator?
Google doesn't know it
 
NYI.
 
5:05 PM
@TonyTheLion no, I just don't reacall any real ones
 
ah I see
lol
 
In any case you needn't worry. Allocators are meant to be cheap to construct and you can't really make them work any other way. And I don't mean that is a result of that particular requirement.
 
@LucDanton wait... I just realized one doesn't need to store the allocator for the elements, it's only used to construct/destroy. You only need to store the one that allocates the nodes.
 
@MooingDuck Double-check but the Standard containers are probably required to hold a copy. You're right though, you could make a container work just like you said.
 
Unless an allocator's construct member required that the pointer given was inside something it allocated,
 
5:07 PM
@MooingDuck Also, I'm glad to see my multiple compliments and thank you's. :D I'll be sure to thank you more later so I can continue taking over your profile.
 
@LucDanton hold a copy of which? magic_allocator<internal_node> or magic_allocator<std::pair<int, char>>
@Drise heh, took me a moment to recall what you're talking about. There's limited space, and I avoid too many from the same people
 
@MooingDuck Of the template parameter.
 
@MooingDuck Limited space? Lame.
 
@Drise I believe so. Don't want an infinitely scrolling profile
@LucDanton I don't think that works with scoped allocators.
 
@MooingDuck I have far more on mine than you do yours. And I don't see any "Character limit" warnings
 
5:09 PM
I don't see why not.
 
@Drise not when you include the link text. You may see "a", but underneath it's [a](http://www.google.com), which is like 25 characters or something.
 
There is an explicit requirement that the allocator for the element type be used to construct and destroy instances btw.
 
@LucDanton yeah, I saw that.
 
@MooingDuck Yes, there is a limit.
 
@MooingDuck True
 
5:11 PM
I hit it once, and then scraped everything and went for minimalistic.
 
@LucDanton isn't there an implication that if you destroy an allocator, anything allocated with that particular allocator is freed/no longer accessable/UB/etc?
my_allocator {
    std::vector<char> internal_buffer;
    //initialized for 4k, allocations inside.
};
 
Interesting, it may be the case that there is room to implement a container just like you said: hold a rebound copy, and re-rebind (or derebind?) a copy when you need to construct/destroy or explicitly asked for that copy. May be worth a question tbh.
@MooingDuck No.
 
@LucDanton then I need to research scoped allocators again
 
Allocators are cheap values, like much things in C++.
 
5:13 PM
that appears to be the source of my confusion/misinformation
 
I know what @Cat is doing :P
chewing piano's
 
Perhaps the quickest way to understand better what is going on is to implement an arena+scoped allocator combo btw. I was somewhat afraid of allocators until I did.
 
@TonyTheLion He likes white things, with the occasional side of black things.
 
hahha
and he likes Vodka
evidenced by yesterdays drunken stupor he was in
 
Vodka is evil.
 
5:14 PM
@LucDanton I apperently don't know enough of the requirements to even start
 
@TonyTheLion Oh, Cat showed up drunk again?
 
@CatPlusPlus right on time
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes see the starboard history
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep
 
Dammit, I need to get Internet at home again.
 
5:15 PM
@MooingDuck To convince you: what happens when a temporary vector is copied moved into another vector?
 
@MooingDuck I feel like that whenever I talk with @LucDanton :)
 
I am on a 3G dongle at home currently
I'm fairly limited
 
@TonyTheLion I left mine at home.
Well, I mean, not at the place I'm currently staying at.
 
@LucDanton that I understand fine, I... oh wait
 
you can't get broadband where you live?
 
5:15 PM
I need Internet at this place.
 
I'm just waiting for the slow British ISP to connect my internet
 
@MooingDuck Sorry, the interesting bit is a C++03-style allocator + a move.
 
takes about a month
 
@TonyTheLion I'm not going to live here, I'm only here for a couple weeks. It's complicated.
 
oh ok
 
5:16 PM
@TonyTheLion 3G is so yesteryear.
 
Internet is first thing you get when you move in, you're doing it all wrong.
 
@TonyTheLion Here it takes about two days.
 
@Drise so is your mum :P
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't move here.
 
You're there.
 
5:16 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's not my house.
 
Then get someone else's internet.
 
//this
auto al = magic_allocator<element>::rebind<other>::type(*curallocator);
//not this
auto al = magic_allocator<element>::rebind<other>::type();
//DER I GET IT NOW
 
@CatPlusPlus well, I thought it was gonna take a few days, but I was horribly wrong, turns out
 
Hah, even simpler: get_allocator() returns allocator_type. What do you make of that?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It took a phone call (50 minutes or longer on hold) and my own modem/coax cable. What's wrong with you people?
 
5:17 PM
House without Internet is like house without a roof. Completely useless.
3
 
Have to go though.
 
I got mine in two days, too.
 
@LucDanton wrong type though
@CatPlusPlus I had to wait 9 days once :(
 
@MooingDuck Wrong for what?
 
5:18 PM
@TonyTheLion I originally read this as "takes about a mouth" and thought nothing of it since "oh it's Tony."
 
@LucDanton type vs othertype. element vs node.
 
problem is my 3G has a 5GB limit per month
which is very little bandwith :(
 
@MooingDuck Well, get_allocator behaves as if it were an observer to a subobject. So it's a consistent interface all around. Keep in mind, cheap values.
 
@Drise not sure I'm following here...
 
Why the fuck. Do I keep getting put into the PHP room!? I continually tell it to leave the room...
 
Ell
5:19 PM
@TonyTheLion its enough for chatting :D
 
yes
but not for video's
 
@TonyTheLion sounds like something sexual you'd say.
@TonyTheLion Fuck youtube. Unless you are using PornTube. Then maybe.
 
but LoveFilm
I can't friggin watch movies
and porntube :P
 
@TonyTheLion I get unlimited traffic, but after using up 2GB I get 128kbps. Scumbag ISPs.
 
@LucDanton I meant my confusion is because when rebinding between the element type and the node type internally, I wasn't moving/copying, I was just making a new instance. get_allocator() is unrelated to that conversion.
 
5:21 PM
@MooingDuck My own attempt at scoped allocators is here.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah man, that sucks
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lol, I get 250GB at 2.2 MBps lol
 
@TonyTheLion They all do that.
 
I don't know what happens when my 5GB runs out, guess I'll have to find out
 
@TonyTheLion can always call and ask
 
5:22 PM
@Drise I used to have unlimited at 7Mbps.
 
@TonyTheLion They ask you for 10$ a GB
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion when it happened to me it just cut off
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mb or MB?
 
@MooingDuck And I thought you were concerned about moving vs copying, since you mentioned internal allocator data and ownership concerns earlier.
 
can I ask a question related programming in general?
 
5:22 PM
@Drise I'm talking about bandwidth.
 
@Ell Verizon likes money, so they will quietly continue to let you use bandwitdh and pay the bill later.
 
@Ell hmm, from what I've heard, that definitely doesn't happen
@MooingDuck I hate calling these companies, you have to wait forever to get any kind of answer
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I explicitly said MBps. Didn't know if I needed to do mental conversion of your number.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ya but telecommunication or computer stuff? :p
 
Wait, you guys get 5 GB Bandwidth limit at home?
or is this a cell phone carrier thing
 
5:23 PM
No.
 
that'd be insane
 
@LucDanton Bandwidth is always bits. I just find it useless as most everything is measured in bytes. So / 8.
 
@LucDanton AFAIK, no one uses MB (or MiB) when talking about bandwidth.
It seems I'm the only one being careful with terms around here though.
 
what @MooingDuck
 
5:24 PM
I can set whether I want it to allow connections after reaching limit
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
so I'm not too worried
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, I'm quite careful myself good sir.
 
I'll just pay for whatever I'm over
 
@DineshVenkata most questions should be posted on a QA site like stackoverflow, not in a lounge.
 
5:25 PM
All questions.
 
@MooingDuck this is a general question
 
@Drise So, did you just divide it by eight, or is that the download speed you get?
 
and actually not question
 
@DineshVenkata Great! Don't ask here.
 
That is a general site.
 
5:25 PM
Because download speeds are often in MiB/s, which is not the same as Mbps.
 
@Rapptz 5GB per month limit
 
And we actually don't care.
 
ohhh just realized that month is at the end
 
If I confused you, my job is done. :P
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah. :<
 
5:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get something like 25 Mbps or something
 
means I can waste some GB's because tomo it resets
hahah
 
One month till semester.
I don't want to go back there.
;_;
 
@Drise actually, you explicitly said "Mb or MB"
 
5:26 PM
5 mins ago, by Drise
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lol, I get 250GB at 2.2 MBps lol
 
@MooingDuck I asked which he was using. I explictly said MBps
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion maybe I was lucky then :D
 
@Drise both are wrong, he' using something that ends in an "s"
 
Ell
oh wait I was on PAYG :O
 
@MooingDuck what?
 
5:27 PM
@TonyTheLion It's a one-pixel image.
 
5 mins ago, by Drise
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mb or MB?
 
I should have said MiBps, but I don't believe in Mibibytes per second.
 
Men in black per second.
2
 
A megabyte is 1024 kilobytes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it what now? Not on my screen
@Drise we're aware.
 
5:28 PM
@Drise No.. a megabyte is 1000 kilobytes.
 
No, it's not.
It never were.
 
@Rapptz only in very specific circumstances do people claim that, and they're wrong.
 
mega has always meant 1000 kilo
 
Bytes were never an SI unit.
 
@Rapptz Stupid lay people trying to learn technical things and deeming "it's too complicated, here, let's round off 24 bytes."
 
5:29 PM
@MooingDuck No hotlinking.
 
Ell
@Rapptz A megabyte is 1024 kB iirc
 
The mebibyte is a multiple of the unit byte for digital information. The binary prefix mebi means 220, therefore 1 mebibyte is 1,048,576 bytes. The unit symbol for the mebibyte is MiB. The unit was established by the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) in 2000. It was designed to replace the megabyte used in some computer science contexts to mean 220 bytes, which is similar to but conflicts with the SI definition of the prefix mega (106). It has been accepted for use by all major standards organizations, but it has seen little real world usage in the computer industry. The t...
 
@Rapptz Mebibyte != megabyte
 
Screw IEC.
Their attempted fix for a non-problem only introduced a new problem.
 
"it's too complicated, here, let's round off 24 bytes."
 
5:30 PM
@MooingDuck Which is exactly my point.. Mebi uses 1024 per conversion. Mega is 1000.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know what you mean here, but it concerns me
 
@Rapptz No. Byte was never part of SI
 
The megabyte (abbreviated as Mbyte or MB) is a multiple of the unit byte for digital information storage or transmission with three different values depending on context: bytes (220) generally for computer memory; and one million bytes (106, see prefix mega-) generally for computer storage. In rare cases, it is used to mean () bytes. The IEEE Standards Board has confirmed that mega- means , with exceptions allowed for the base-two meaning. Definition The term "megabyte" is commonly used to mean either 10002 bytes or 10242 bytes. This originated as compromise technical jargon for the ...
 
Insisting that megabyte is 1000 because mega- prefix functions in SI is that kind of pedantry that's just not fucking productive or funny.
 
> The term "megabyte" is commonly used to mean either 10002 bytes or 10242 bytes.
lol
 
5:32 PM
I'd like to know how to add tags to App.config programatically. Any idea?
 
@CatPlusPlus It's productive when you're mixing two contexts where "megabyte" means different things.
 
@rogcg What is App.config?
 
a bit. 0 or 1. Base 2. 8 bits. A byte. Still base two. No where is base 10 mentioned.
 
@Drise It says it under definition.
 
@FredOverflow .NET thingy.
 
5:32 PM
@Drise Not every byte is 8 bits. There are machines where a byte has 36 bits.
 
@FredOverflow it's an XML config file for .NET applications
 
@Rapptz I'll go change wikipedia and shut up you. Stop spewing your blasphemy.
 
@FredOverflow aghh!! wrong room. LOL I typed the wrong url, it should be C#. sorry
 
@FredOverflow I've seen 16, but never yet seen anything bigger
 
@FredOverflow Still base 2.
 
5:33 PM
If you want unambiguous, say "octet" instead of "byte".
 
@Drise What?
36 is not base two.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok, you got me.
 
@FredOverflow this was the funniest thing that happened to me today. I'm getting crazy working with two languages at same time. two projects at same time..
 
@ApprenticeHacker Old.
 
5:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes 36 is 100100 in base two :)
 
@ApprenticeHacker No need to quote that here.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not a power of 2.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :'(
 
@rogcg They should make a movie about going into the wrong chat room. C++ instead of C#, how hilarious is that? I can already picture Adam Sandler in my head doing it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like what?
The only people who ever used megabyte == 1000 bytes were HDD manufacturers.
 
5:35 PM
Regardless, anything computer is always discussed in base 2. Why we need to have stupid extra terms for lay people is stupid.
 
@FredOverflow it's like entering the wrong class room, but virtually. LOL awesome happening. =) would be awesome, a Microsoft guy entering a room full with Linux guys, etc..
 
@JerryCoffin 2^5.169925 = 36
 
@CatPlusPlus And telecom people used megabits = 1000 bits (which, if you look up, was part of the context)
 
@FredOverflow Only approximately.
 
@Drise No it's not.
We pretty much use base ten 99% percent of the time, and then a couple of times hexadecimal.
And then some rare octal with chmod.
 
5:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What, when?
 
Binary is even rarer.
 
I don't think I've seen a telecom that'd use base-10 prefix.
Also I never had a problem of distinguishing prefix bases.
I really don't see why it warranted a new set of prefixes, which only resulted in some people using new ones and most people still not giving a fuck and using old ones.
They wanted consistency, they got exact opposite.
 
@CatPlusPlus IMO, about the only "problem" here stems from people who are specifically trying to mislead (e.g., hard driver vendors).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's like saying Uranium 235 is too complicated to talk about when discussing radioactivity, so let just call it Uranium 200.
 
@JerryCoffin Except nothing changed in that regard.
Because most people still use old prefixes, and HDD vendors still doing their thing, the confusion still exists.
 
5:41 PM
I always thought a MB was 1024 KB, then they told me it was wrong and it turns out that it's both.
 
@CatPlusPlus True -- and short of regulations stopping it, nothing is going to change either.
 
@Drise That is a really bad analogy.
 
(ISVs don't help either, with Linux using new prefixes and Windows using old ones because most people use old ones)
 
Ell
hmm xkcd - "a bakers megabyte"
 
Confusion all around.
 
5:42 PM
@JerryCoffin I can imagine WD switching to 1024 and saying "and we use real megabytes unlike our compeditors!"
 
Ell
 
The fact is that the ISO, IEEE, etc., mostly assume people want to be understood, so providing a definition everybody can agree upon will be useful. When people are actively trying to be misunderstood, it doesn't work so well.
 
@MooingDuck "Now with more bytes in a megabyte!"
 
@CatPlusPlus yes!
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin trying to be misunderstood?
 
5:43 PM
I think standardising existing practices usually works a little better than inventing a new standard in attempt to fix things.
 
@Ell Being more accurate, trying to mislead -- get you to believe your new hard drive is really bigger than it is.
 
@Ell It's like how internet speeds are measured in MiBs, it looks bigger so people like it.
 
Ell
ahh right okay
 
@Drise I can't relate that analogy to me saying " anything computer is always discussed in base 2" is false. (it should be clear from the use of the numeral 2 here, which you don't use in base two)
 
It's Friday!!!
 
5:45 PM
@StackedCrooked It's not becoming not Friday fast enough
 
You know, when I first heard about mebi- and friends, I thought it was a joke.
And then I got sad because it wasn't.
 
@Drise Saturday is nearly as good.
 
TGIF
My first week at new job is over!
wooo
 
@TonyTheLion Congrats (assuming the week is over but the job is not, anyway).
 
@TonyTheLion How was it?
 
5:52 PM
It annoys me when people fail to understand what a number is :(
This should be elementary school stuff (it was for me).
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks :) Yes, week is over, but not job.
@FredOverflow It was good. Interesting, to say the least.
Software can be fucking complicated, I've come to that conclusion.
 
You haven't seen my projects.
 
I haven't seen any simple project
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, some people were never thought the definition of "number", which is essential to understanding it
@CatPlusPlus no I haven't.
 
@TonyTheLion I've decided that I want that phrase cross-stitched, framed, and put above my desk.
 
5:55 PM
@mootinator yea, it's so true though.
 
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
This should be elementary school stuff (it was for me).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know what number 1 and number 2 are.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes perhaps you were lucky to have had an education that's worth something, in current society, that seems to be becoming rare.
 
Apparently I can't do markup.
 
---HOME SWEET---MARKDOWN CAN BE FUCKING COMPLICATED
2
 
5:56 PM
College graduates graduating and having no idea is not as uncommon as you might think
 
up, down, they're similar concepts.
 

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