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sbi
1:01 PM
@wilx This just goes to show that you don't have small children. I had to shake kids out of bed at 5:10am today — at least their bodies' clocks were at 5:10 at the time.
Of course, getting them to bed an hour earlier yesterday just meant that they wouldn't sleep, but crawl around their beds wondering why they weren't tired, resulting in them falling asleep an hour later, rather than earlier. (I certainly knew that before-hand, but the granny, visiting this very weekend, insisted in "giving them a chance to go to sleep in time"...)
And then, the wee one will have a loooong nap in kindergarten today, resulting in her not being tired enough to go to sleep in time tonight... IME it usually takes a week for this to settle for kids <10years.
My oldest has to get out at 5:30am to get to school in time, and had to drag herself out of bed at what she felt was 4:30am today. That's simply inhumane.
 
Heh.
 
sbi
There's millions of kids <10 in Germany, and they are all suffering badly every spring in order to serve a purpose that's never been even proven. To say this idea sucks is a very serious euphemism.
 
I have kids (3 years old and 4 months old) but not these problems :)
 
A 4-month old sleeps all the time, right?
 
Yet, I guess. :)
 
1:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes this guy gets me :P
 
I am still a young adult. No children, and probably may never live old enough to have a wife. :(
 
sbi
@wilx Well, a 4 months old baby simply ignores the outside world anyway, and sleeps whenever he/she feels like it.
 
@sbi erm... fairly sure you shouldn't be shaking your kids
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes, nearly. Fortunately. :)
 
Uh... cough
 
1:04 PM
You're sick or something?
 
Btw, it is odd that you have to wake up kids at 5.30 to get them to school.
 
Yes, someone finally gets the message.
 
sbi
With 3 years olds it depends on what the world demands of them. If they need to be ready at a certain time in the morning (here it was kindergarten, because the parents had to work), then it's a major PITA to get them out of bed an hour earlier, too.
 
I thought they have to get to school at 8 in the morning.
Oh.
 
sbi
@thecoshman What? Shaking is the common way to wake someone, no?
 
1:06 PM
I thought you use an alarm clock or something...
Shaking may cause pain in the neck area.
 
@tom_mai78101 Hah. Every parent knows kids + alarm clocks don't mesh before a certain age (say, 8)
 
@sbi well... last time I needed wake some early, I put on a convenient alien mask, got right close to them, and made heavy raspy breathing noises
 
@sehe Oh.
 
they certainly woke up nice and alert
 
sbi
@wilx That's my oldest, who is a teenager, has a 70mins commute to her school, which starts at 8am, and needs 30mins of bathroom time in the morning. She leaves the house at 6:40, usually.
 
1:07 PM
The number of times you hear the alarm going in the middle of the night or during the day far outweighs the theoretical benefit of them waking up earlier
 
70 minutes? That's way too far.
 
Yeah. That's pretty far.
 
@sbi ouch, 70mins. Fair play to here for being disciplined enough to keep to that
 
@tom_mai78101 No. minutes are a unit of time
 
OH, LOL
 
1:08 PM
@sehe, not if they are light minutes!
 
70 minutes of commute time = far.
 
@sehe not always, wiki
 
sbi
@thecoshman And, of course, this is much more appropriate for waking your kids than gently shaking them. (Also, small kids will not wake up before their waking time simply because you breathe heavily. I can carry mine from room to room dangling from their ankle in my hand during the night.)
 
@tom_mai78101 'far' is distance
 
1:09 PM
"Long" would be suitable in this case?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Missed it
 
@thecoshman Far can be time too.
 
Summarizing: Not if they are in nerdy jokes with added context.
 
Currently Friday is far.
 
@sbi I hope you don't spend your evening doing that
@RMartinhoFernandes care to give me an example, that makes sense
 
1:10 PM
The thought of it... It's a cliffhanger.
 
@sbi True enough indeed. My daughter has an alarm clock and she used to sleep right through it. For hours if need be
 
@sehe Ever tried a CS session next to a sleeping person?
 
sbi
@tom_mai78101 She picked this school herself, against her mother will, and against my advice (but with my help, once I saw that she was determined), being fully aware of the consequences. So far, after 2.5 years, she still loves the school, although being a teenager she dreads getting up early more than she used to.
 
@tom_mai78101 Computer Science? That's not noisy
@sbi A special kind of school, I presume?
 
@sbi Then if she's happy, I'm cool.
@sehe Counter Strike session.
 
1:12 PM
@sbi at least she is keen on school
 
That's the best part.
 
@tom_mai78101 no, because I have a sense of decency
 
@tom_mai78101 I schedule my gaming for when I'm asleep myself. Big time saver
@thecoshman Decent headphones work
 
@sehe Loudspeaker, you mean.
 
@tom_mai78101 Nope. You mean.
 
1:14 PM
@sehe well, I suppose you could do it that
 
Is my grammar wrong?
 
@tom_mai78101 Often
 
@tom_mai78101 it's a pun
 
@thecoshman check
 
@sehe @thecoshman Dang. I fail.
 
1:14 PM
@sehe and mate
 
sbi
@sehe It's on an island on a lake in Berlin (the only school I know emplyoing a ferryman) , has very dedicated teachers (needing to park their cars 500m from the ferry, needing to catch a ferry, or wait 20mins in rain or shine, and similar ordeals tends to weed out the lazy ones), sports stables with farm animals, dedicated art, biology and language buildings... A pretty good school, if it wasn't so far for her to get to.
 
A ferryman ?!?!?
 
@sbi wow, cool school
@tom_mai78101 a man who operates a ferry
English is rather simplistic some times
 
Too simplistic... :/
 
though I think @sbi to be politicly correct, you should say 'ferry operator'
 
1:16 PM
@sbi That is a fine school. Too bad, because of the high tuition fee. :/
With oil prices on the rise.
 
sbi
@tom_mai78101 Actually, this is a public school and is completely free.
 
@sbi Zing
 
@sbi you would be surprised how expensive things can be when you make up prices
 
@thecoshman Why? It's a ferryman.
 
@sbi That's a high school?
Beautiful.
 
1:20 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes people in UK seem to have taken offence to job titles that imply it is a man's job, like fireman; to be PC it should be 'fire officer'
 
We ride a scooter to school in 5 minutes. :/
FYI.
 
@thecoshman What if he really is a man?
 
he's still a fire officer, just he is a male fire officer
though it might be fire warden...
 
-1
A: WinExec Return 0x21, But what exactly it means?

Cheers and hth. - AlfEDIT: This answer is wrong because the OP's result is not an error code. I mistakenly thought it was said that it was an error code. I still think the practical info below can be useful, plus that it can be useful to see what a wrong assumption can lead to, so I let this answer stand. If you hav...

^ :)
 
either way, I think it is rather lame
 
sbi
1:22 PM
@thecoshman In order to prove a point, when I once had to carry two small kids (<5yo) kids from one room to the other, I did so by carrying by their ankles upside down. :) I won the bet, which came with a very treasured price for me. :D
 
ooh, just got yearling badge :D
 
You used your kids to win a bet?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Why is that? I've seen the guy a few times, and from the looks he shoots at the female teenagers I am sure he is a ferry man. :-/
 
@sbi you sir, may just be the coolest dad ever... would you take your kids shooting?
@sbi read good sir and all will be explained
 
sbi
@tom_mai78101 I wouldn't know, because I'm not sure about what a high school is. In Germany, we have a school for the first 4 to 6 (depending on the state) years, and then they change to different school types depending (in theory) on their abilities. The type she's at now ("Gymnasium") provides the higher education until the 12th or 13th year (again depending on the state) necessary to later study at an university.
@thecoshman But we're talking Germany here! :)
 
1:26 PM
@sbi but we are speaking English
 
Anyone know how I can improve this question title? "What are the differences between Bigloo and ECL?" The mods say it needs to be improved.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Why? I certainly wouldn't do anything that hurts them. (This includes preventing them from hurting themselves, to a certain degrees, which, in the long run, would hurt them very badly.)
 
@sbi huh, in English a Gymnasium, or Gym is where you would go for exercise and/or weight training. I assume then that your daughter is at some of sports school, correcT?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yes, but he is a ferry man, so what's the problem?
 
@sbi as in take them to a shooting range
 
sbi
1:28 PM
@thecoshman No, not correct. It's a false friend.
 
@thecoshman It's a place for both physical an intellectual pursuits.
English just cut half of the greek meaning.
 
sbi
@thecoshman What would that accomplish that helps them master their lives?
 
You're language butchers.
 
@sbi ah, it;s just pedantics
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes And Germans cut out the other half. How telling. :)
 
1:30 PM
@sbi they might enjoy it?
 
@sbi Oh.
Oops.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes lol, I do not give a good representation for the English English skills
 
@thecoshman well, there are a lot of things they might enjoy. Why shootign?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes It's not that they have no physical education there, but it's just one subject.
 
@jalf just an example that came to mind
 
sbi
1:32 PM
@thecoshman They will also enjoy eating mostly chocolate for a week or so — yet I wouldn't allow that. (Although I allow them to eat whatever they want at some days of the year, like on Christmas. It usually results in the small ones eating all their sweets in a few hours, and then vomiting it back at night in a few seconds.)
@thecoshman I will allow any of my kids, at any age, to climb a tree, while they are either good enough that I trust them or have the time to stand by like a preying mantis to catch them. I will not allow them to put a wire into a 240V~ electrical socket. The difference is that from the first they learn something useful, while from the second they can't.
 
Hmm, chocolate.
 
but would you allow them to shoot chocolate for a week?
 
@sbi I would think that such an experience might put them of for a while
@sbi I sense you don't have fond views of guns...
@RMartinhoFernandes silly robot, you care not for food... or are you bio fuled?
 
@sbi I did learn something when I did something similar. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
@thecoshman I eat solely for pleasure!
(I wish)
 
I don't see why you'd view guns fondly. At best, they're just things, occasionally useful tools. I don't view screwdrivers, tables or doors fondly. Why should a gun be viewed more favorably? And in the worst case, they're tools for inflicting bodily harm on people
 
sbi
1:37 PM
@jalf Under certain circumstances I would. Like when we make the agreement that they eat nothing but chocolate until they do not want anymore. (This usually lasts a day, and then they crave for fruits and vegetables.) What I would not allows, however, is for them to eat some healthy food (to still most of their appetite) and lots sweets — because that way they could do it for weeks, or even years. Remember, I want them to learn that chocolate is bad for you. :)
 
@sbi aw, you missed the joke
 
@jalf it's not the gun it self that is fun, it is the use of it.
 
was trying to mix the gun and chocolate thing. Hence shoot chocolate ;)
 
sbi
@jalf Dang. Only now I see the verb.
 
@jalf Chocolate as the projectile or as the target?
 
1:38 PM
@sbi we used to do that when we were kids. also touching electric fences, and burning one's skin with cigarette. we reasoned that since the tough guys did that in the movies, only weaklings would shy away from doing it. such is the kid's logic.
 
(Stupid ambiguous English)
 
@thecoshman Yeah, but again, what's so special about it? I don't get a kick out of opening and closing doors, and spinning around on my office chair gets old after a few seconds
 
@RMartinhoFernandes why not both?
 
Spinning around on an office chair never gets old. You must be in need of repairs.
 
@jalf partly that I don't get to go shooting all that often. Partly... hard to describe really. I take you've never been shooting, else you might know what I mean
 
1:40 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes nah, racing people on them never gets old. But just spinning around just makes me dizzy :D
 
@RMartinhoFernandes he needs to add some fireworks or something, that will liven it up :D
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I do not prevent my oldest boy from doing serious electrical work. nut he's a very careful kid and will definitely wait for me to be able to supervise, and ask before doing anything he isn't sure about. But a teenager doing this is a bit different from a 4yo driving a piece of wire into the socket in the bathroom, while holding on to the faucet in order to be able to reach the socket.
 
@thecoshman well, I've never done drugs either, or crashed a car. I'm sure there are all sorts of things I could get an adrenaline kick out of if I'd only try it. But again, I don't see what's so unique about guns.
 
@sbi oh kids, they sure do work hard to hurt them selves, I am sure they know what they are up to. They must be testing you
 
@jalf That's a bit of an exaggeration, right? Shooting <whatever inanimate targets you want> is not as bad as crashing a car.
 
sbi
1:42 PM
@CheersandhthAlf I wouldn't prevent them from touching an electric fence. It's unlikely to cause harm and very hurtful. And smoking — there's no point in declaring it as verboten, you will have to make them believe that they don't need to try it and hope for the best.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't say any of those things were "bad" objectively speaking. I just said they're things I've never done, and which I might well get an adrenaline kick out of
 
@jalf Shooting guns (if your not an idiot) is not going to hurt any one, it's much more equivalent to bungee jumping
 
@thecoshman The universe never runs out of idiots.
 
@thecoshman but (speculating wildly) associating guns with with fun and excitement in general, is a trend that might well get people hurt.
more people get shot in the US, where guns are practically a national religion, than in Europe, where they're not
That doesn't prove anything, of course
 
@jalf it might, true. They really do need to be treated with respect. Very much like drink. Very tasty, very fun, but very dangerous if not done responsible
 
1:45 PM
I treat guns with fear.
 
@thecoshman And like with drink, a net contributor to danger, because not everyone is responsible, and because we, as a culture, insist on imbuing it with positive and socially acceptable traits
like "fun" and "tasty"
 
sbi
@thecoshman Actually, kids work hard at survival. They only need your help for picking tasks to learn from at the skill level appropriate for their abilities. And to encourage them. If you expect them to fail, they will realize it and will try to meet your expectations.
Also, I don't think it's my task as a parent to prevent my kids from doing harm to themselves, my task is only to prevent permanent, irreparable damage. Getting some scars is fine, breaking your spine isn't.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I would treat them with no more fear then a car
 
@thecoshman Oh, I treat cars with fear too (I believe I mentioned that before here).
 
I'd rather treat guns like electrical wall socket. Useful, certainly, but something that's best left alone when I don't need it
 
1:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes are cars like slavery to you?
 
huh?
 
@sbi So true "kids will try to match your expectations": I remind people around me of that on occasion
 
 
@thecoshman The fact that I'm legally allowed to manipulate energy equivalent to that of an artillery shell scares me. And that manipulation is done in the middle of other people doing the same.
 
Guns are cars are much the same. Sat on around not doing anything they are harmless, but it only takes a person to make them dangerous
 
sbi
1:48 PM
@thecoshman Even the fastest cars need 3secs to reach 100km/hr. Bullets accelerate much faster, guns are easier to operate then cars, and, on average, more people die when hit by a bullet than when hit by a car. Sorry, you failed.
 
@thecoshman Cars are not built to cause damage.
Well, except that one in the picture above.
 
@thecoshman but with the one key difference that cars are more frequently useful. And the other that most car-owners own it not in order to be able to inflict harm on others, and not just out of fascination or for fun, but because they need it in their day-to-day life
 
My point is, guns are something to be treated with respect more then fear. The person wielding the gun is to be with fear more then respect
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah. So why should I try to teach my kids to be viewed with fear?
 
@sbi because it leads to the dark side
duh
 
1:50 PM
@sbi perhaps I did not put enough emphasise on the 'wielding' part of that
 
@thecoshman or perhaps you're just trying to run circles around yourself to make us agree with your point of view. ;)
 
sbi
@sehe I remember trying to hammer this into my parents and parents in law. Until one day my father told visiting cousins of him to stop expecting the kids to harm themselves, lest they will actually do it. I was so proud of him. :)
 
@sbi It's more then just kids though isn't it, it's the 'think positive' mentality
 
To me, it's not about either respect or fear. But why would you pick up a tool intended to kill human beings, and use it for fun? That's all it boils down to for me. I can have fun without tools intended for killing, so why wouldn't I make do with that?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Oh, c'mon. A gun is a weapon, built to kill. Period. A car is a civil vehicle, built to get you around. Comparing them as similar is like saying that vegans and meat eater are alike, because they both eat.
 
1:52 PM
I don't want to associate "fun" with "tools for killing"
no matter how responsible the wielder might be
 
sbi
@thecoshman I think this pretty much works with all humans (cue sport coaches), but kids are especially receptive to this.
 
well, I don't see this going anywhere
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, it won't. Merkins and (some) Brits are pretty much alone in their gun adoration. Most of the rest of the developed world has long since moved on, and your anachronistic arguments mostly only draw pained expressions and them being embarrassed on your behalf. (And if you really need to have a refresher on why your arguments are wrong, go and watch Bowling for Columbine. It does the painful and boring job of rehashing them for you.)
 
@sbi Don't forget the french?
 
1:58 PM
yeah, I know that there are serious problems with having guns around
 
sbi
@sehe What? They, too?
 
all I'm saying is, that I enjoy shooting
 
guys, chillax, all he is trying to say is probably that cars can be dangerous, too, like for example recent events in the swiss showed
 
clay pigeon shooting is more then just making loud bangs
 
sbi
1:59 PM
@bamboon Yeah, a hammer can be deadly, too. It's still very different from a canon, though.
 

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