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12:00 AM
Either there's a mistake and 295 EUR is the full price or it won't tell me without me logging in to make the purchase final.
 
Ah okay.
 
@Insilico Unfortunately I've noticed it more and more via e.g. Steam and online shopping in general. It really exists.
 
Not as bad as some companies that won't tell you the price at all unless you call them and answer a bunch of questions about who you are
So they can charge you 10 times as much if you're a government or business customer
 
Oh I wouldn't be surprised that this happens in business.
In any case maybe WA Pro is priced at 5 EUR too, so it all works out to 60 months anyway!
 
So does WA, being an American company, makes more money from some international customers?
 
12:06 AM
it's unfortunately common for US companies to ignore exchange rates when setting foreign prices
 
That's actually quite odd to me
Lots of other online stores do in fact take exchange rates into consideration when changing currencies
It seems to be a bad strategy in the long run if the value of a USD exceeds a EUR
 
For Steam the (admittedly very apologetic) 'explanation' is that physical retailers impose restrictions on digital distribution. They have leverage because every now and then Valve does release games, and they physically publish as well of course.
And physical goods use a licensing scheme so the prices can't be related from market to market.
 
Why do people try to restrict distribution of their goods?
 
I.e. whoever gets to publish game X in whichever part of Europe doesn't have to be the same as whoever gets to publish that same X elsewhere. See Australia for more dramatic instances I think.
 
If I made something I and sold it I want as many people buying it as possible
 
12:09 AM
@Insilico It's a side-effect more than an intended goal, or at least it started that way.
 
It makes just as much sense as region codes on DVDs
 
I.e. distributing physical goods means logistics. You want to find someone that already have that.
@Insilico Exactly, yes.
 
man
why I so tired, I only just woke up
 
@DeadMG: Took a nap, I presume?
 
no
 
12:20 AM
Ah, it just kind of sounds like you just too a nap
At least for me waking up from a nap isn't always a pleasant experience
 
12:30 AM
I just woke up from like 9 hours sleep and you guys are still here?
 
@Potatoswatter I also slept in the meantime
 
but you're in the UK, so it's late night there(?) whereas morning here
 
yeap, 1.39am
 
Yo what's up with all the upvotes on my old answers. Stop that.
 
Yo dawg, I heard you liked upvoting, so I upvoted you whilst you get upvoted so you can be upvoted whilst you upvote.
man, I wish I had a variadic template min, so I could just be like min(a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h)
or min(begin(array), end(array))
 
12:47 AM
@DeadMG std::min_element
 
OK, that's silly
yeah, just found it
why on earth have std::min and std::min_element instead of just overloading std::min?
 
Same number of arguments I'm afraid.
 
@LucDanton SFINAE? min doesn't accept iterators.
 
And std::min(it0, it1) is valid for random-access...
@DeadMG Why not?
 
Also there is a relevant overload of std::min, it takes an initializer list instead of a parameter pack
 
12:48 AM
oh, I guess that strictly speaking, you could do that
 
min({a, b, c, d})
 
this would be much easier using LINQ or something
then I could just do arr.Select(elem => elem.x).Min()
and then again for Max()
 
min_element(range | transformed(arg1->*&T::x))?
 
I had that stuff implemented somewhere....
c++ std lib, y u so bad design :(
 
@DeadMG you have to be kidding
 
12:52 AM
yeah
the whole "no ranges" thing isn't terrible at all
not including things like, the streams are awful, there's no Unicode support, etc
and you know what?
they can't even do iterators very well
 
@DeadMG Picture yourself Herb Sutter in your head calmly explaining what it takes to write an International standard and that the language is only made of the proposals that are in fact written and submitted to the Standard Comittee. Does that help?
 
instead of std::transform, it would have been much easier to have like, a transform_iterator
@LucDanton No, not really.
 
But he's soothing! And dreamy!
 
@DeadMG Um, we have both
 
I can't help but feel that it's the kind of thing you would notice when, say, writing any example code at all, ever
@Potatoswatter I asked Intellisense and it says no transform_iterator
 
12:54 AM
@DeadMG it's in boost
 
@Potatoswatter the fact that boost has it does not refute the fact that I believe the Standard library to be, at best, a hodge-podge
 
@ScottW PUT YO HANDS IN THE AYYAAH
 
atm I don't depend on Boost and I don't really like the idea of changing that :(
 
Haha you so fucked.
 
by the way
I always thought there was a function called std::accumulate?
ah, there is
<numeric>? wow, I never heard of that
 
1:01 AM
The issue preventing standardization of transform_iterator is whether the result should be cached (implying it must be CopyConstructible) or not (implying the transformation can be called repeatedly)
@DeadMG strange and wonderful world
 
For (allegedly) numeric-oriented algorithms. Given that std::accumulate is a fold when I do have <numeric> included it's very much the case that there's no numerical code in sight.
 
MSDN seems to think that it's the initial condition type
Type accumulate(InputIterator _First, InputIterator _Last, Type _Val);
 
    Frustrum.BottomLeftClosest.x = std::accumulate(std::begin(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints), std::end(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints), WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints[0], [](D3DXVECTOR3 lhs, D3DXVECTOR3 rhs) { return lhs.x < rhs.x ? lhs : rhs; }).x;
not great, but it could be worse
 
That's the spec for C++11. Also the spec for C++03.
 
1:04 AM
Oh, now I remember
the internal accumulator is defined to be a value_type
so if T has greater range than value_type, you're still screwed
 
Frustrum.BottomLeftClosest.x = std::accumulate(
    std::begin(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
    std::end(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
    WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints[0], [](D3DXVECTOR3 lhs, D3DXVECTOR3 rhs)
    {
        return lhs.x < rhs.x ? lhs : rhs;
    }
).x;
There, now I can actually read it
 
lol
 
nope, i seem to be wrong about that too. bah, i need to go back to sleep
 
Actually no the indenting is still wrong
Frustrum.BottomLeftClosest.x = std::accumulate(
        std::begin(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
        std::end(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
        WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints[0],
        [](D3DXVECTOR3 lhs, D3DXVECTOR3 rhs)
        {
            return lhs.x < rhs.x ? lhs : rhs;
        }
    ).x;
 
Frustrum.BottomLeftClosest.x = std::accumulate(
    std::begin(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
    std::end(WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints),
    WorldSpaceFrustrumPoints[0],
    [](D3DXVECTOR3 lhs, D3DXVECTOR3 rhs) {
        return lhs.x < rhs.x ? lhs : rhs;
    }
).x
 
1:07 AM
It's actually not too bad.
 
anyways, it looks better once I used a variable for the first three args, and then spewed six of them in a row
 
Ah, I see.
Although a person who knows nothing about lambdas will be bewildered by the [] syntax
 
true, but that's their problem not mine
 
@Insilico A person who knows nothing about C++ will be bewildered by the syntax.
 
It will unfortunately be damn near impossible to search form [](params) {}
Then again lambdas are talked about quite a bit
with respect to C++11
 
1:10 AM
why would you search for lambdas in general?
 
You know, @DeadMG, aren't you the first to move walls of code to the bin?
 
probably, yes
1 message moved to bin
it already served it's purpose
 
At least we're living up to Lounge<C++>'s name.
 
we do all the time
it's just often more Lounge than C++ :P
 
"The room of a thousand topics"
 
1:12 AM
"one of those topics might be C++"
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The room of a thousand high-performance embarassingly-parallel SIMD-vectorized topics. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The room of a thousand high-throughput low-latency embarassingly-parallel SIMD-vectorized topics. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Don't forget the metapenises.
 
I wouldn't call it "low-latency". :-P
 
then you, my friend, need moar brainz :P
 
Humans have rather high latencies
 
1:14 AM
damn, there's a specific image/meme thing I'm thinking of
 
Although "embarassingly-parallel" definitely fits the bill
 
ah, never mind
@Insilico Yeah, I can be embarassed about multiple things in parallel
 
The hell is a "metapenis"?
 
It's a penis about a penis.
 
Even looking through the chat log I still don't get the context
I see.
 
1:16 AM
Yeah. It's more like a metadiscussion about penises, but "metapenises" sounded better.
 
@Insilico The fact that you looked makes it a pretty effective metapenis
 
A metadiscussion about penises. So it's a discussion about a discussion about penises?
 
META ALL THE DISCUSSIONS
 
@Insilico Yep.
 
Metalounge<C++>
No wait
 
1:19 AM
 
typedef Lounge<Lounge<C++>> MetaLoungeC++
In C++11 I can use >> now!
Even better to use template aliases
 
template<topics T...> using Lounge = Chat<C++, T...>;
 
template <typename T>
using MetaLounge = Lounge<Lounge<T>>;
 
Lounge<&C::operator++>
 
lol
 
1:21 AM
@Insilico This implies that C++ is a template.
Well, now you've made it not work.
Or have you? Mmh.
 
@LucDanton: It was a copy-pasta fail.
 
mmm... pasta
lol
bow ties are cool!
 
Eh, the https versions of various websites are not oneboxed.
 
Probably a conspiracy to get all of our dataz.
 
I don't think any data on Lounge<C++> is of any use anywhere else
It's not even that useful in Lounge<C++> itself
 
1:31 AM
fezzes are so cool
 
I'm starting to think that you're a fan of the Doctor.
 
not really
 
user457812
I'm disappointed nobody said "HARDEN!" above.
 
I think their writing is bad at best
but he does say some funny things
 
The writing is cheesy at best, you mean.
 
1:36 AM
meh
 
@nil Damn. It's even more fitting than I thought.
 
It is the longest running sci-fi series
It gets hard to come up with stuff
 
Cmon. Alien fat.
 
it's full of Deus Ex Machina and general Ass Pull
 
(I'm aware this is not really up-to-date.)
 
user457812
1:37 AM
DeadMG has just sentenced at least a few people to six hours of tvtropes browsing.
 
@DeadMG: That's sounds like Lounge<C++>
 
@LucDanton Fourth series. Not that old.
 
Sorry for the drive-by perl, but does anyone know what `!~` means in this snippet?
`if $hostname && $_->{host} !~ /$hostname/;`
 
@CollinHockey: Only in Lounge<C++> do we get programming questions that have nothing to do with C++.
 
@Insilico I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they get unrelated things elsewhere.
 
1:41 AM
@nil Nearly backfired on me, but Chrome blocking saved me.
 
@Insilico I figured at least one of you smart fellows would have hacked a bit of perl here and there
 
@CollinHockey: Seriously though, perhaps ozonehouse.com/mark/periodic may help you out
 
@EtiennedeMartel They do on occasion, but nowhere near as much as us.
 
Don't forget we're by far the largest room around.
When people needs a random question asked, and they don't really care about being on topic, they just pick the biggest one.
 
yea
 
1:42 AM
@CollinHockey Most of us here either dislike perl or never used it.
 
hence why we're usually Prime Target
 
We're hard to miss.
 
Maybe !~ is actually two separate operators
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, I hate it too, I'm trying to fix the freedns.afraid.org perl script for updating the ip address
 
that's highly unlikely
 
1:43 AM
Kind of like C++'s --> operator.
 
@Insilico There's a --> operator?
 
It's not actually an operator
It's -- and > with no space in between
 
if I have two 3D vectors X and Y, then if I do (X - Y).length() do I get the distance from X to Y, or from Y to X?
 
You get the distance from Y to X
 
@DeadMG Isn't that the exact same thing?
 
1:47 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Inverted signs.
 
Consider the 1D case
 
How do you compute the length?
 
Ah, it's "pattern binding (not)" (what?)
 
I presume it's not a good old Euclidian distance.
 
good point, I hadn't considered that
 
1:48 AM
<-----|------|--------------|--------------->
-     0      y              x               +
 
I need to consider the orientation of the camera as well
to know if I'm "behind" or not
 
@Insilico Diagram? Let me upvote you.
 
ah, sod it, if you're behind the camera then the GPU can deal with it
absolute distance will be fine for determining which mesh to render
 
Yeah for distance determination the sign may not matter
 
argh
why does std::binary_search return a bool?
that's just teh sillies
sod it, linear probe, you shouldn't have that many LODs anyway
 
1:51 AM
That's odd. Why does std::binary_search return a bool?
Why not an iterator, kind of how std::find works?
 
@Insilico I wondered the exact same thing.
 
Doesn't std::lower_bound do exactly that?
 
I think it's an oversight.
Oooh.
 
lower_bound is what I really needed, anyway
 
Ahh okay
 
1:53 AM
oh, wait a minute
I mean upper_bound :P
hmmm
I've suddenly discovered that I violated 999999 of Visual Studio's annoying rules for nested lambdas
and for some reason, previously, it decided they weren't a problem
 
So you get 999999 compiler errors?
That's quite a persistent compiler to provide that many errors. :-P
 
2:14 AM
hmmm, fuckles
having a slight Issueâ„¢ with upper_bound
 
like what?
 
well
according to Visual Studio, I take mutable references when I take const references
and it won't compile because it can't convert from const to non-const
 
ah
had to do const decltype(*vec.cbegin())& rhs
apparently, the result of const decltype(*vec.begin())& rhs gives a mutable reference- WTF?
const is nothing but the most annoying shit ever
 
*vec.begin() is value_type&. T const& where T is U& is U&.
 
2:19 AM
I appreciate the reference collapsing, but I thought that it was supposed to preserve const
 
It is. References are never reseatable.
 
you just said it doesn't
 
Aaaand that's why I always say 'ref to const', never 'const ref'.
 
> T const& where T is U& is U&
i.e., the const qualifier I thought I had magically disappeared
 
References are just as const transitive as const pointers are.
Nothing disappears, references are not cv-qualified.
 
2:21 AM
so basically, because of some minor technicality, it's needlessly irritating?
 
By the way the name of the relevant clause in the Standard is "Clause 3 Basic concepts".
@DeadMG It's neither minor nor technical, it's core.
 
it is extremely minor and technical
references have absolutely no need to behave like pointers W.R.T const
and there's no reason that const T& with T == U& can't collapse to const U&
if you write const T&, then having any situation in which the result is not const is a stupid idea
 
It's consistent with how the language works.
 
consistency is only a good thing if you're not being consistently stupid
better to be half bad and half good than all terrible
 
Given struct foo { int& ref; }; extern foo const& f; then f.ref is int&, not int const&.
Regardless of that will you see why I said that the type version is consistent?
You can argue that reference should have cv-qualifiers and that those qualifiers would apply on the referenced type, and then we'd want the type system to reflect that, too. But we don't have that.
Does that make sense?
 
2:27 AM
that doesn't really change the fact that it's stupid, it's just stupid in a different way
actually, I still don't think that's consistent
ah, whatever
const isn't worth the time anyway
 
Mmh, I rarely have to special case references in my generic code.
 
lucky for some
I have to spend way too much time in my code ejaculating const all over it
 
That's what you get for using decltype.
 
this is hardly the only place where I'm needlessly having to add const
especially since I use plenty of immutable resource objects
and it's very, very pointless to have a const ImmutableTexture
 
2:57 AM
Feels redundant, indeed.
 
so
#1: Fix up mesh and object code. #2: Fix up UI and Sim code. #3: Game might compile again.
and debug it, of course,
 
can anyone hit io.collinandbecky.com from the outside world there?
 
@CollinHockey I hit a test page
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nice! I just finished setting up freedns + apache, and apparently I have the blasted iptables crap set up correctly
And apparently comcast does not block reqs on port 80
 
3:54 AM
What kind of room topic is "The room of a thousand high-throughput low-latency embarassingly-parallel SIMD-vectorized topics." ?

It's in a sense of nonlinearity.
 
@tom_mai78101 Because "metapenises" wouldn't have been good for the meta police.
 

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