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Ell
4:00 PM
Anyone used SetWindowsHookEx before?
 
C# room is dead
 
Sounds familair.
 
Ell
@ShotgunNinja you got a c# question?
 
Right now I'm doing Win32 and C#.
 
I'd assume it's part of the WINAPI?
Nah, @Ell, just bored at work.
 
Ell
4:00 PM
@ShotgunNinja Ahh right :)
I need to call a function when a window does WM_PAINT
so I'm thinking SetWindowsHookEx with WH_CALLWNDPROCRET
 
Fixing up a Java web backend... I need to stay in C++ or C# to keep my sanity.
 
Ell
hmm or getmessage
 
Also, Win32 is garbage... I feel bad for you mang
 
Ell
Win32 is fun :P
 
Win32 is better than POSIX
and, IME, the vast majority of other C APIs
 
Ell
4:03 PM
phew it's not just me that likes it :L
 
Agreed... I prefer either low-level C/C++, custom platforms, or HLLs for desktop/web crap.
Small-scale stuff like the DS is super fun.
 
Ell
@ShotgunNinja DS?
 
Nintendo DS.
 
Ell
as in... nintendo ds? :P
 
dual screen
the Nintendo handheld
 
Ell
4:05 PM
oh cool :D
 
Yeah, I've done some libnds hacking
 
Ell
I wanted to try and do something on the ds before
 
I haven't had time or energy to delve back into it.
Plus, while I've become a competent software engineer, I am not really a game designer.
 
Ell
Games are incredibly difficult
in comparison to other stuff, I think
 
1
Q: Why isn't there a minimum time in review?

JeffreyIn the review tab we want to be sure that who reviews takes his time to read and decide what to do (either close or not, either accept and edit or nor...). In order to improve the quality of the decision and to avoid people clicking on the simple and fast button (leave open, accept edit...) why d...

We really need a time limit in review...
 
4:07 PM
Well, as long as it's a realistic time limit.
This is for reviewing SO postings?
 
yep
 
Okay. Well, my concern is that people will skimp on reviewing a post based on the ticking-clock principle.
There's no way to establish a level of confidence for individual reviewers?
That way, you can combine the confidence of a reviewer with the amount of content present, and get a decent heuristic of review time.
 
sbi
As every year, Scott has sent me xmas greetings with a picture of him and his wife, standing in front of their tree. Only this year he's wearing a sweater that says "Deutschland" over his breast and has small German flags on the collar. I am baffled.
 
FYI: I'm about to upload a new std::thread enabled MinGW-w64 build with GCC 4.7.
 
oty
 
4:10 PM
^ nice, @rubenvb
 
I'll gladly accept any general code tests and especially performance tests.
The winpthreads author said he fixed some more problems, so...
 
Had I anything to test with, I'd help you out.
 
I'd build a 4.8 preview as well, if not for the crappy GNU coders that don't know how to handle a C++ compiler.
They keep breaking stuff.
 
How bad is it? Never looked into GCC's guts.
 
GCC is the one that explicitly makes it difficult to use
 
4:14 PM
Aside from poring over the C++ 4.3.2 bits
 
They are now switching to C++ as implementation language, and replacing C macro hacks with stuff like std::vector.
Which made all pointer casts illegal for Win64, cause their crappy assumptions are crappy.
 
Ugh... it's called a quality gateway, noobs
 
And C++ is a lot stricter on the normal stuff, so I've had more trouble with building it due to stupid error messages I don't want to fix.
 
directed at GCC folks
So, GCC is now being re- implemented in C++? I might have missed that.
 
It's not being re-implemented.
They are basically switching to C with classes compiled by a C++ compiler.
a tad bit more (like std::vector, although it's a template and "templates are icky").
 
4:20 PM
lawl
It's a compiler; shouldn't it be implementable in any language, as long as the developers know how to make that language work with the target hardware?
 
indeed
 
@ShotgunNinja GCC was written in C by GNU C programmers.
*was written in GNU C
 
@rubenvb I figured as much.
You know there's an edit button?
 
They don't know C++, nor cared for it, until Clang showed them "aah but C is faster" is all but true.
@ShotgunNinja yes I do.
I am lazy sometimes.
and spammy
like now
 
indeed, Daniel Jackson.
 
4:23 PM
shut it Teal'c
 
Get the new toolchains here
And no, I am not linking to the 32-bit stuff anymore.
That's history. The world is 64-bit. Screw anyone who doesn't agree.
 
@rubenvb All the poor people disagree with you. :c
 
Also, I was blissfully unaware of LLVM until now.
 
@ThePhD bullocks. poor people buy AMD. All their CPUs are 64-bit.
 
There's plenty of 32-bit operating systems, however, running on top of 64-bit capable hardware.
 
4:25 PM
It was developed about an hour or two away from me, lol
 
It's not so much a company flaw as just people pick defaults.
Also, fuck P/Invoke. =[
 
Or three, rather. It's Urbana-Champaign.
 
Trying to make my own window is an asshole of pain.
 
lololol P/Invoke
 
@ThePhD You're doing what?
 
Ell
4:26 PM
@ThePhD Creating a window is easy :P
 
I have a surprising amount of activity on my github account
 
I remember something along the lines of a CreateWindow() method, with an arbitrarily long signature, that spit out a HWND handle.
Or are we not using Win32?
 
I'm using SharpDX and C#, so I need to make my own Window (SharpDX is basically the thinnest possible wrapper around DirectX, and it's The fastest one I know of )
 

C#

General discussions about the c# language, Squirrels | gist.gi...
 
heh, I read that as "Create my own Windows".
 
4:28 PM
My markdown is bad and I should feel bad.
 
lol, I've always stuck with SlimDX
 
Ell
@ThePhD you could just use .net to make a window, then get the hwnd from it
or CreateWindowEx
 
@ShotgunNinja Yeah, I'm trying to avoid rendering to WPF / WindowsForms altogether. Do not want to deal with their Cruft framework.
It's raw .NET for me.
 
Raw .NET? Why would you do such a thing?
 
Because my concern here is performance.
 
Ell
4:30 PM
@ThePhD I'm a little confused - you want to use directx without rendering to a window?
 
I'm about to render something that will be shooting 1K sprites - on average - all over the screen.
 
Yeah, I'd pull in some Win32 references and CreateWindowEx(), or at least look into the option of doing so.
 
@ShotgunNinja I've got it, just having to write P/Invoke calls are gnarly.
 
Game dev, @ThePhD?
 
@ShotgunNinja What else would I be doing? Science? Medicine? Intellectual Research? Scoffs. No point wasting good knowledge on that shit: there's fun to be had.
 
4:31 PM
Well, I'm blissfully ignorant of that in my line of work; I'm currently employed as a Java/Struts web backend developer.
Also, I'm still trying to break into game dev.
I feel like everything I've learned and applied up to this point is falling by the wayside due to financial obligations turning sour.
Eventually, I will break in, I just can't afford it atm.
 
Ell
@ThePhD That doesn't sound like all that many really
 
@Ell I want to use DirectX with a window. That's why I've got to create one. Route 1 is to use WindowsForms and a NativeWindow or RenderForm and get the handle from that, and supply it to DirectX. Simple, but now I have to link Windows Form.
 
Ell
also I don't think creating the window would be the bottleneck
 
Route 2 is WPF, but it has the same problem as Route 1: I'm hand-tied to WPF again.
 
Good luck...
My goal at this point would be coming up with a wrapper system to where the core logic is shifted away from the platform.
 
Ell
4:35 PM
@ThePhD yeah just use CreateWindowEx
 
@Ell I have all the time in the world, so I'm going with 'Slimmest Possible Implementation'. Least amount of external libraries, least amount of cruft. .NET gives me all that I really need in its core libraries, so I can ignore WPF with just some P/Invoke work.
 
Ell
Yeah. So CreateWindowEx?
 
Mmhmm.
But from within C#.
 
Yeah... but don't get stuck with an unmanageable pile of nasty code.
 
@ShotgunNinja If there's one thing I'm brilliantly good at for no good reason, it's pretty abstractions of messy code.
 
4:37 PM
wazzzup
 
@ThePhD There are well-paying jobs for people with those talents.
 
@ShotgunNinja Then hopefully I will be happy man in a few years.
 
Ell
struct CWPRETSTRUCT {
   public TODO; // Extremely handy!
}
 
Sup @dramasea
lol @Ell
 
wazzzup
 
4:39 PM
@Ell static_asser("unimplemented");
 
Ell
@rubenvb I found it on pinvoke.net :P
 
Also, just a question
Where is performance impacted in using WPF/WinForms versus CreateWindowEx? On render calls?
 
Ell
@ShotgunNinja That's what I was wondering. But it wouldn't be render calls because that's handled by the directx.
 
Even hypothetically, is it just overhead due to the managed aspects of the system?
I'm also assuming you mean performance as in speed, though the more noticeable difference would likely be performance as in memory usage.
 
Ell
The overhead of the managed aspects won't come from the window creation stuff, it will be the rendering done in managed which will slow him down (I think)
so I personally see no benefit in using pinvoke :P
I would either write in c++, or just use .net to create the window
 
4:47 PM
^ Agreed. P/Invoke is just so sloppy, unless you are doing hardware-specific stuff that needs native code.
 
Ell
I'm doing a little bit of P/Invoke now, just because I can't figure out c++/cli quite yet :p
but it's a pain, raw c++ is a lot cleaner
 
CLI... as in command-line interface?
 
Ell
No as in...
Common Language Infrastructure (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B/CLI)
 
oh, okay.
Wow, that looks like even more garbage. Thanks Microsoft.
 
Ell
@ShotgunNinja it's not all that bad really
It's a bit strange when you start off, but it's okay once you know when you can use what kind of objects/stuff when and where
 
Xeo
4:52 PM
@ScottW C++/CLI isn't that bad from what I heard - of course, you should only use it as glue between .NET and C++. :)
 
I suppose, but it's another attempt to take a perfectly good existing language, and impose custom artifacts on it to make it work with an arbitrary product.
 
Xeo
You can write perfectly normal C++ in it.
 
"C++/CLI (Common Language Infrastructure) is a language specification created by Microsoft". My interest has faded away there...
 
user142019
BASIC makes you shoot yourself in the foot with a water gun.
 
C++ makes you shoot yourself in the SEGFAULT with a memory leak.
 
Xeo
4:57 PM
@ShotgunNinja That's C.
 
No, I just didn't properly allocate and copy a string buffer for that word, before inserting it into a std::vector.
 
Xeo
Seriously, don't talk about memory leaks and segfaults in C++. If you get those, you're likely writing C with Classes.
@ScottW ow ow ow ow....
 
Now, I started in C++, but my school decided to go ahead and pound Java into my brain for the last 3 and a half years.
 
@ShotgunNinja lol they did that by us too. You did not happen to go to a CUNY now did you?
 
user50049
Since I keep being summoned here, I suppose I could try to implement something interesting in C++ to see what all the fuss is about. Merry Christmas.
 

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