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9:00 AM
@sbi thanks. software enginer for a smaller company using C. I think I stand a better chance at pushing for C++ when C is the baseline :D
It's just le misses is having a hard time working out if such a move is wise
considering we do currently have a free place to live
 
sbi
> In days of old, when knights were bold/And ladies weren't particular/They stood 'em up against a wall/And did it perpendicular. Eduardo de Guzman
@thecoshman Oh, I very much doubt that.
 
but that doesn't really offset a third of my day being shit, resulting in another third being not great most of the time because of the shit day I have had and the final third being "fuck it, I'll go to bed"
 
sbi
C zealots are the hardest to convert to C++.
 
@sbi yeah me too
still C > Java
 
sbi
@thecoshman Ah, so you need to relocate for that?
Nasty stomach flu, then blew out my right knee falling down the stairs while running to the bathroom. #Monday, you are Murphy's whore.
 
9:03 AM
@sbi Yeah, this job I am looking at is in England
 
@thecoshman Is it so hard to find a C++ job where you live?
 
@sbi I hope that is all he blew out
 
sbi
@thecoshman "That hurts to try to read." Edited it!
 
@StackedCrooked considering I work at the only software development company in town, and they use Java, yes
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Considering that he is willing to relocate to a different country, I cannot believe that to be an issue.
 
9:05 AM
I can do words
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah. Just not always the right ones.
 
10
Q: What are some convincing arguments to upgrade from Visual Studio 6?

Len HolgateI have a client who is still using Visual Studio 6 for building production systems. They write multi-threaded systems that use STL and run on mutli-processor machines. Occasionally when they change the spec of or increase the load on one of their server machines they get 'weird' difficult to re...

Oh nice, didn't know we had a question about that :)
@sbi What exactly does it mean to "blow out a knee"? Is it broken?
 
@sbi turnip
 
@thecoshman Oh, that's a tough one...
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I'm not a native, but a German, too, remember?
@thecoshman parsley
@FredOverflow What would you need that for? Anyone still using VC6 when it's almost 15 years old won't be convinced by rational arguments anyway. I mean, it's not like there were rational reasons to use VC6 in 2004.
 
9:08 AM
@sbi I thought since you posted it, you knew roughly what it meant. Anyway, sounds hurtful.
 
@FredOverflow Put a dynamite stick against it and light it.
 
@sbi ooh, spot of honey and olive oil, pop in the oven for a whill and om nom nom! tasty roasted stuff :D
 
@StackedCrooked I'd rather blow out the dynamite before it explodes...
 
@FredOverflow blo the dynamite out of what?
 
@thecoshman you can try handling it genericly: forward her perfectly, then fate can decide whether it'll be a reference, or move
 
sbi
9:11 AM
@FredOverflow Oh, I do know roughly what it means. I mean, what could happen to your knee when your falling down the stair? It's the indignation of this happening to him because he's afraid of shitting his pants that makes this so hilarious IMO.
 
@thecoshman No I meant blow it out, like a candle. Makes sense?
 
sbi
@thecoshman "whill"?
 
spot on
 
sbi
@sehe I didn't know the pirate is fat!
 
9:12 AM
@FredOverflow The PHP treatment:
Apparently if you hit your kneecap hard enough the skin around it will explode. Ouch! http://t.co/jktSF0J5
 
@sbi Who says he didn't shit his pants? :)
 
Hi
 
@FredOverflow I knew what you meant, just trying to be punny
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Not me.
@kbok Lo.
 
@sbi wow. that took ~10 seconds :)
 
9:12 AM
@sbi while :P
 
sbi
@sehe Getting fat in 10secs? That's not "getting fat", that's an explosion!
 
@sbi only if I do not maintain structoral intergraty
if you want me to be better at spelling, provide funds for some sort of decent computer I can travel with
 
sbi
@thecoshman They way you misspelled that it looks like a very nasty disease.
 
@sbi he he he
 
sbi
@thecoshman mozilla.com
 
9:15 AM
@sbi You're blowing this out of propertion quickly :)
"structoral intergraty" --
Beauty distilled. I mean, like, world press photo style beauty (corpses in the rain, e.g.)
 
@sbi what! Install someting on my parents computers? are you mad! have you any idea how long I will get plamed for things breaking just by using it?
 
sbi
ROTFL!
"plamed!"
 
@thecoshman as long as you don't get blamed
 
sbi
Sorry, but I cannot help it. You are too funny today, pirate.
 
@sbi He's trying to not use the spell checker. If he depletes it, his parents might plame him for legal fees.
 
9:17 AM
@sbi I plame safari, to dry and land based for me
any ways, I have to go do stuff with the family, I did not spend 24 hours travellnig to chat to you bums :P
 
sbi
What country code is 0038...? I just got a call from such a number, and nobody answered my "hello!"
 
@thecoshman never seen the P o/t Carribean, did you?
> Country code +38 (dialed as 00 38 from many places) is an incomplete code. You need one more digit. See the related questions below.
^@sbi ^
 
@sbi I get that a lot
 
 +380 Ukraine
 +381 Serbia
 +382 Montenegro
 +385 Croatia
 +386 Slovenia
 +387 Bosnia-Herzegovina
 +389 Macedonia
 
It's like spam, but without a payload.
 
9:18 AM
> Country code +388 was assigned for certain pan-European numbering, but the project has been discontinued and +388 is now available for reassignment.
 
sbi
@sehe It was a 00386... number, but I thought if I post that in this pun-laden room, all I'd get is jokes.
 
@kbok Of course not. It could be computer operated 'is anyone home' probing service facilitating a burglars network ...
@sbi right. Never mind you could have gotten an answer. Anyways, if you fear jokes, google is you friend
 
@catplusplus ^
 
@sehe Oh, I didn't think of that. But why do they call mobile phone numbers ?
 
sbi
9:21 AM
@kbok Yeah, I can see how this would put a damper on @sehe's theory. :)
 
@sbi Oh, so you did get a call from the past ?
 
@kbok I'm not saying this is what's happening. I'm merely being creative and thinking laterally. I mean, spam always pays, or it wouldn't be happening.
 
sbi
@kbok I might, too, I dunno. The phone is sometimes reporting furrin country codes having rang while I was at work.
 
see ya'll later
 
@sbi Wait - is there no cellular reception in your office? Or you keep it offline on purpose?
@thecoshman farewell
 
9:23 AM
@sbi Maybe they want their pun back.
 
sbi
@sehe Land line.
 
@sbi oh aha. wrong foot again
 
sbi
@sehe You stepped on my phone?
 
@sehe Yeah. I think of it as defective phone spambots. It stopped though.
 
sbi
SCNR.
@kbok You probably gave them my number!
 
9:25 AM
@sbi I tried, but it's very hard to negotiate with a robot.
 
sbi
@kbok Don't we all know that here!
 
I'd like a "search in function" feature. Searching in selection is cool but it's not enough for longer tasks.
 
sbi
@kbok You mean "search in function" for source code?! Wow.
Any function longer than 30 lines is too long anyway!
 
I know, but I didn't make them you know
People always say to me "you shouldn't do that anyway". Well the previous guy did it and now I have to repair the damage :)
 
sbi
@kbok I started a new job in October, and it seem I have already gained a reputation for tearing apart long functions.
 
9:31 AM
That's a good thing I think. I spend all my time splitting functions to make the code more readable, and, incidentally, way more brief, and no one gives a fuck.
This one is 999 lines long if you count the newline at the end.
 
sbi
@kbok Oh, it's not like they all like what I am doing. But as long as they're handing me pieces of code asking to improve them...
 
@sbi 30 lines? Are you out of your mind? Uncle Bob says no more than five lines :)
@kbok 999 lines? Don't turn the monitor upside-down, or Satan will appear!
 
@FredOverflow I think it already takes a devil to create such a monster :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Yeah, but Uncle Bob does remember the times when only 24 lines fit on a screen. (So do I, but I have moved on.) Also, I get uncomfortable when writing a function that gets longer than 10 lines. 30 lines is when I open a file, look at that, and wonder if I should squeeze in my fix and leave, or clean the damn thing up.
 
Deep nesting is what makes me really uncomfortable.
 
sbi
9:39 AM
@FredOverflow Those arrowheads once where seen as esthetically pleasing. That was when Pascal was all the rage, though.
 
You can't make beautiful arrowheads out of begin and end, though...
 
sbi
@FredOverflow if, if, if
 
@sbi I thought the mexican standoff involved three people ?
 
sbi
> In popular usage, the Mexican standoff is sometimes used to refer to confrontations with only two opponents. — Wikipedia
 
@kbok you never hand anything entertaining to say...
> iostream. The only thing you'll gain from all this extra typing is extra long build cycles and error messages and extra large program image. This is what you get when you shift a file object by an integer.
 
9:50 AM
Ooh, that's harsh..
 
sbi
The book question has acquire two close votes. Again. Despite my comment. Really, what are those guys thinking?
 
@sbi "screw this" - or words in similar vein
 
They are like those aunties that have a cleaning obsession.
 
@StackedCrooked It really isn't. There's a lot of very valid criticism here (the quote is from [15.1]). It's not like anyone here actually likes iostreams, right
@StackedCrooked Or they just don't like C++ and want to pretend it doesn't exist or is impopular
 
@sehe If printf could print std::strings, I'd ditch iostreams in a second ;)
 
9:56 AM
@FredOverflow printf("%s", s.c_str()); Viola. Also: Boost Format and FastFormat etc
 
Yeah, no.
 
sbi
No, yeah?
 
what part? Of course I use iostreams too, but I won't do numeric formatting in it for example. I'll just boost format, snprintf or whatever is closest to the code base
 
There's a type-checked printf somewhere, which uses constexpr to parse the format string and variadic templates to check the types of the arguments.
I don't know if it has been finished yet. I could dig it out for you if you're interested.
 
@kbok Andrei sketched in his funadics talk in GN2012
 
10:00 AM
Yep, that :)
But there was a most complete one in the boost mailing list some time ago. It was more than a year ago AFAIR
 
I find that underwhelming. You'd still have to cater for the entire formatting grammar somehow
 
You don't have to.
 
Oh boy. Singing too many christmas carols is making me feel strange
 
We could have a python-like printf with just %1, %2, or names, or nothing
 
@kbok Kinda useless if you have to go to std::printf for "%x %.3f" anyway, no?
@kbok boost format
 
10:04 AM
@sehe I don't understand
constexpr parsing allows you to do typechecking/casting at compilation
But yeah, boost::format.
 
@kbok Type-checked at runtime.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh my god, runtime type checking? Cats and dogs sleeping together!
 
Compile-time typechecking is always a plus ofc
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oi! You at work?
 
You cannot have a function whose types depend on the values of the arguments.
 
10:06 AM
std::cout << boost::format("%1%"); throws boost::io::too_few_args.
 
@kbok if you don't allow format modifiers, there's a lot you still can't do with your newfangled "safe formatting" solution, which is, really not a formatting solution. E.g.
 
@sbi Yeah. Waiting for VS to install.
 
printf("0x%08xn", x); // C
std::cout << std::hex << std::setfill('0') << std::setw(8) << x << std::dec << std::endl; // C++ that was painful
 
Whz do zou Germans had to switch the y and z kezs?
 
> Here's some of what I no longer bother with: Tired old points of contention that make no difference no matter who says what (e.g., static vs. dynamic typing). source
 
sbi
10:08 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you have just started: This is faster when you copy the stuff from the DVD/CD to the HDD and install from that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But you can use char arrays in template arguments now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't think so. f(format, args...) recurses down the format and when it finds a format string it can call a function (template) that static_assert that there is a first argument to convert.
 
@kbok But you cannot use arrays that are function arguments in template arguments.
 
@sbi fat is epidemic
 
The return type is std::string all along or whatever you want.
 
10:09 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can't, but what is your point ?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can switch to an English keyboard. In Windows, the default is Alt+Shift, I think, which interferes with block-marking in VS.
@sehe Dang! Thanks.
 
@kbok printf's format string is a function argument (and that's good: it allows for internationalization).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aw crap, I forgot about that
 
@sbi Yeah, I know that. Thanks, anyway.
 
@kbok that it wasn't not compile-time checking. Not can it be, conveniently
 
10:11 AM
But I'm pretty sure it can be worked around
 
ffs, why are sales people so stupid
 
@kbok Yup. Just not conveniently. Also, you probably don't mind waiting 10 minutes for it to compile :)
@jalf Because they would have other jobs otherwise?
 
"hey, let's sell our product which only supports Win7 and newer to a customer who's running XP, and let's tell the dev team about it after the installation, and give them a day to fix it"
 
Hi everyone. Sorry for dumb question, but what stl-container should i use for message-queue class i implementing? I intend to insert and delete heavily, but most relevant is time to
process message
 
well, in fairness, the problem doesn't seem to be with the OS, but it's still absurdly stupid
 
10:12 AM
@LucDanton And how does that work if the format argument is a runtime value?
 
@Ivan0x32 std::deque?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes The downside of this, though, is that the arguments are order-dependent. You cannot really internationalize this, so your pro-printf argument is mostly theoretically.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Instantiates a path which triggers a static_assert, every time.
So 'how does that not work' really.
 
@sbi Well, not with standard printf, but POSIX printf allows for reorderable arguments (and so does boost.format).
 
sbi
@Ivan0x32 Objects or pointers? If the former, what size? PODs?
 
10:14 AM
@LucDanton lol
 
What i need is kind of advice, i know vector have good times of delete and insert and offcourcse access time, but would be as efficent considering my situation with deleting messages.
Pointers
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually it took me a long-ish time to figure that out! Then again I have my mind elsewhere.
 
@Ivan0x32 "try both and base your decision on actual measurements rather than hearsay"?
or, if you're making a queue, you could try std::queue. Just a crazy idea
 
@LucDanton Btw, we have reached the same conclusions before on this very chat. Just saying.
 
@jalf really. that's bad. even for average sales mishaps
 
10:16 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know we have, but I don't remember the arguments/reasoning. Just the 'constexpr functions' are functions' conclusion really.
 
sbi
@jalf Hey, allow the guys who did this to learn a lesson from it, and do not bend over backwards to do this. If it fails, you, after all, cannot be blamed for it. (And if you are, there's bigger issues at that job, and you should leave anyway.)
 
@sbi And I'm not making a pro-printf argument, btw. I am making a "there is no such thing as compile-time type-checked printf" argument.
 
@Ivan0x32 vector will have a good time deleting elements, allright. It just won't be fast unless it is at the end :)
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes So saying "that's good: it allows X" is not an argument pro something. I am puzzled.
 
38
Q: How can i efficiently select a Standard library container in C++11?

BlakBatThere's a well known image (cheat sheet) called "C++ Container choice". It's a flow chart to choose the best container for the wanted usage. Does anybody know if there's already a C++11 version of it? This is the previous one:

@Ivan0x32 Next time, consider searching Stack Overflow for please
 
10:19 AM
@sbi I said it was good to preempt the reply "but you could make it a template argument".
I was saying that having the format be a runtime value was a good thing. Not that printf was.
 
Thanks, i will.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes So "A has B, which is good, because it allows C" isn't an argument pro A, huh? Really, boy, you should sleep more. Way more.
 
@sbi Dammit, we were talking about an implementation of a printf like function that fixed the shortcomings of the C one. Our hyptothetical implementation would need to have that B to because that B is good.
Bad things can have good parts.
 
Btw I had no problem understanding that from the start.
 
Me neither.
 
sbi
10:25 AM
@sehe How can you all look at this and not think, "ugh, what's with that capitalization, I need to fix that before it does permanent damage to my eyes"?!
 
But, more sleep is considered healthy in most cases :)
 
sleep(8 * 3600); // healthy
 
@sbi Who says I do? I haven't actually looked at it. Searched, verified top answer had the diagram, linked.
 
@sehe The ape sleeps a lot less than me!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, you know the mantra: younger people require more sleep or something like that, right :)
 
sbi
10:26 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Elder people do not require as much sleep anymore.
 
Cough
 
sbi
@sehe Um. Yeah. That.
 
@sehe Except for a certain period during their twenties.
 
@StackedCrooked That's alcohol/sex-related, not age-related right?
 
sbi
That awkward moment when you have to move your mouse out the right hand side of your right monitor, to have it reappear at the left monitor's left hand side...
I always feel like that does permanent damage to my brain.
 
10:34 AM
I'm not in a perfect mental state today.. =/
 
sbi
@rogcg Well, you have found the right room to hang out in, then.
 
hehehh
 
@sbi erm. rearrange monitor layout?
 
well.. i'm at work, listening to pink floyd and trying to find my comfortably numb state.
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, of course. But first you have to understand what's happened, and why this damn mouse pointer doesn't want to move to the monitor right beside it...
 
10:37 AM
lol
 
sbi
@rogcg Now you still laugh. Just you wait until you realize how true my statement was.
 
@sbi why? you mean everyone here are not in good mental state?
 
sbi
@rogcg What do you think a grumpy old ape could mean, when he says to you that this is the right room for not not being in a perfect mental state?
 
Hey you! would you help me to carry the stone? But it was only a fantasy
The wall was too high as you can see ,
No matter how he tried he could not break free
And the worms ate into his brain.
 
Sooo. Anyone into christmas carols? Here's the fruit of my labour. downloads.sehe.nl/stackoverflow/tutti.mp3. Now all that's left to do is ... transcribe a piano part for our pianist. I forgot how convenient it was to not have to have piano parts while we went without a pianist... This is going to take a while.
@rogcg Is that a mental swing state?
2
 
10:41 AM
@sehe probably
together we stand, divided we fall
 
united we stand, shirley?
 
sbi
@sehe I thought you are the pianist?
 
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young, In a world of magnets and miracles.
soo... let me check the work items for this monday!
 
@sbi I'm the conductor, which is why I'm creating rehearsal materials (we've too many new members). I used to play the piano for a while too, but only because our resident pianist had quit.
We've found a new pianist, since a few months. I forgot I'll now have to somehow produce piano parts for the stuff I used to improvise before...
 
stupid TFS
 
10:46 AM
@rogcg Lemme guess: failure to merge? Shelves being useless?
 
kindof
 
Does anyone here uses skype?
 
sbi
> Foxtrott Uniform Charly Kilo — @_Tomalak
 
@AlphaMale Likely. Who wants to know the obvious?
 
id please?
 
10:49 AM
@AlphaMale Please see the newbie hints. We're a chat room here.
 
I'm sorry but you are offending me..
 
@AlphaMale And you're bad at lying :)
 
sbi
Oh flags.
 
Yeah thats the way to respond... Now you are on track
 
sbi
Oh, a flag war.
Oh, this room.
Oh.
 
10:51 AM
O.
 
.
 
"valid". "invalid".
 
sbi
Well, @AlphaMale, why don't you go and read the newbie hints? Or just get the fuck outta here, rather than first annyoing users and then starting a flagging war.
 
I'd love a command line interface for those.
 
sbi
@sehe Flags? You want to script them?!
 
@sbi Anything to dismiss them more quickly
 
You should have given me a link to that though..
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes WTF
 
> An Emotional Technology Enthusiast.. Who is Insatiably Inquisitive, Unequivocally Loyal, Uncontrollably Charismatic & Unapologetically Outrageous. :)
Apology unaccepted :)
 
hahah
:D
you are awesome
(thumbs up)
 
10:53 AM
I call troll, and that's why I validated the flag.
 
i dont know why people are so hot headed
 
> PHP
I'm offended.
 
sbi
@AlphaMale, this is a room full of regulars, most of which are >10k. They all see your silly flags and dismiss them immediately, and are just more annoyed with you every time. And now get out.
 
anyways am sorry if i've provoked you guys
 
hm, flagging
 
10:54 AM
oh gawd. What is going on here?
 
ok sorry bro..
 
We're not [hot headed]. Actually. We just don't like random strangest spamming without introduction or apparent goal
 
i will now introduce DIFICULT PROBLEM
 
We can be impatient, but we weren't the only ones
 
running a 32-bit DLL in a DLL surrogate in Windows 7 for consumption by a 32-bit exe
 
sbi
10:55 AM
Oh. Now someone is really pissed.
 
"invalid". "invalid". "invalid".
 
at least it's been beating me for an hour
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf lol at the implied accent
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf What's a DLL surrogate ?
 
Man, VS SP1 takes forever to install.
 
10:56 AM
whoever flagged is a fucking idiot and should GTFO right now!!
 
it takes a COM DLL and runs it in an EXE server
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's waiting for VS2012 SP1 to be released
 
@sehe I'm using 2010.
 
@TonyTheLion It's ok. Calm down. Lunch is only in an hour :)
 
usually that's done for consuming a 32-bit COM DLL in 64-bit EXE
but I have other reason
 
10:57 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'twas a good joke while it lasted :)
@Cheersandhth.-Alf as well as thick russian accent - can you prove your id?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes FWIW, I flagged for a mod providing this link. This kind of behavior needs to be discouraged.
 
he he i'm just stirring up things a little
but the problem is real
 
I see.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Whatcha doin here anyway? No sex or porn was mentioned.
 
10:59 AM
That's why he thought he'd mention the subject himself
 
isn't it election in the US today?
or is that tomorrow?
 
Tuesday Chooseday
 
I see many people around having issues with COM and stuff, but I never ever met anyone IRL who worked on that stuff. I guess this wasn't the rage here in the 90s :)
 

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