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5:00 PM
Ah.
 
But if it's C++, then disregard what I just said.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes That might well be, but I don't really understand what it is complaining about.
 
@TonyTheLion indeed
 
huh, when I open the start menu and mouse over the control panel, two processors top out for about 30-40 seconds before the menu pops up. (WinXp32)
 
If it's C# than Dispatcher should have what she needs yeah. If it's C++, well, she just has to write her own Dispatcher, because if what she's saying is right then SetTimer is probably not the way to go; looks like it could have some serious lag.
 
5:02 PM
hello sirs
 
She could have a single Dispatcher for her application and have it fire timed events from the main while loop of her application. That should make it work as expected.
@emartel @EtiennedeMartel It's the e-mail version of Martel's name!
 
Indeed, I keep getting his spam :P
 
I ended up coding a busy loop, lol. Works just fine.
 
Just have to add @France.fr
 
@ThePhD Actually, my email has a "de" in it.
 
5:03 PM
Friends
 
@ThePhD to be honest, it would be edemartel :P
 
@Cicada Not sure if lol or facepalm
 
@ThePhD Why France (or Phronce, which seems to be how any French person says it)?
 
@Cicada That sucks
 
@EtiennedeMartel Your name sounds Frenchy.
 
5:03 PM
@ThePhD we are both from Montreal
 
@sbi investigating
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why not Zoidberg both?
 
@TonyTheLion What does hth stand for, anyway?
 
"Hope that helps"
 
GCC 4.5 has the terriblest error messages.
 
5:04 PM
@FredOverflow hope that helps
 
Something you can use very ironically, which makes it great
 
@FredOverflow Have them herpes.
5
 
Programming on a GPU allows me to segfault quicker.
That is all
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Both. But I don't really have a choice you know.
 
HOKAY so... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_routing
What is step 5 supposed to mean
 
5:04 PM
It means that you do what is needed to go from step 4 to step 6.
 
@FredOverflow I need 1ms resolution for a timer, not clock.
 
Does anyone know how to make an application automatically request to run in admin mode?
 
@Mysticial Properties -> compatibility -> run as admin
 
9 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
24 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@FredOverflow She wants timers that schedule execution of stuff, not timers that count time. Silly English.
 
:3c
 
5:05 PM
@Mysticial Alf must know, he worked on it some days ago
 
I'm facing a problem with now, where even with UAC completely disabled, I still need to right-click to get the program to run in admin mode.
 
@sbi Hmmm, in that function, tuple_type is std::pair<const char (*)[5], nil_>. Is that correct?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes CLEVER MAAN.
 
I'd much rather the program cause a UAC popup window instead.
 
@Cicada No, that's compat.
 
5:06 PM
This is happening with my Pi program in Windows 8.
 
Add a manifest
 
Nov 5 at 14:53, by Cheers and hth. - Alf
finally progress, able to create symlink from non-elevated prompt. but with annoying UAC confirmation box popping up.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is that the only way?
 
@Mysticial Are you the developer or consumer?
 
@Mysticial On Vista? Name it setup.exe. </joke-but-works>
 
5:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus His wording is unclear
 
@MooingDuck Developer.
 
Don't name it setup
 
Lemme re-explain.
 
Manifest, dammit.
 
Manifest if you need deployment. Else properties -> compat.
 
@Mysticial something goes in teh manifest
 
Don't use compat for your apps.
 
Do it.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually I wanted to store references, rather than pointers, but when I did that I got very nasty error messages because the compiler wouldn't collapse references in the std::pair<>(const T1&, const T2&) ctor, so I switched to pointers instead. If that thing is a pointer to an array, I am fine with it.
 
5:08 PM
Just don't.
 
What is this nightmare yellow deathhanger above my Wiki articles. ._.
 
In Win7 and earlier, if I completely disable UAC, then when I double-click on any app, it automatically runs in admin.

In Win8, even with UAC completely disabled, it doesn't give admin to apps. But y-cruncher requires admin rights to do file allocation. It don't want all my users to have to right-click run-as admin every time.
 
@sbi Then it is correct. :S Problem must be elsewhere.
 
@Mysticial Did you plonk the cat?
 
No
 
5:08 PM
@Mysticial That's clearer. Then go for a manifest.
 
Nobody cares about Win8 and why would you disable UAC
Also, what do you need admin rights for?
 
@Cicada I'm wondering if there's a WinAPI call for it.
 
What the fuck does this MEAN? "A relay cell, as opposed to a command cell like the create cell used in the first step, is not interpreted by the receiving node, but relayed to another node. Using the already established encrypted link, the originator sends the entry node a relay extend cell, which is like any relay cell, only that it contains a create cell intended for the next node (known as the relay node) in the chain
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Look. Shiny.
 
@CatPlusPlus "file allocation", he said.
 
5:09 PM
I've noticed. What does that mean.
 
@CatPlusPlus UAC is an annoying jerk.
 
Since only swap runs need it. There's no point in bothering the user with a UAC popup if they're only running Ram-only computations.
 
@sbi I fail to diff that. What did you change?
 
@Mysticial There's a WinAPI to launch another process at a higher elevation, other than that, I don't think so
 
@Crowz Sounds like a "tee" element.
 
5:10 PM
ShellExecute
 
@EtiennedeMartel "File Allocation" meaning that I need to create a file with X bytes long without having to zero all of it. This is considered a security risk, but absolutely necessary for performance.
 
@Mysticial I'm not sure, I'll check.
 
@StackedCrooked Eh?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes The return type of the operator. That missed the const. Unfortunately, my real code still explodes.
 
@ThePhD It is? I barely ever see it. You must be using the wrong programs.
@sbi Ah.
 
5:11 PM
@Mysticial Are you still calculating PI? Can't you just use the fldpi instruction? ;)
 
@FredOverflow hehe
 
@Mysticial Anyway why wouldn't you want a manifest ?
 
@Mysticial SetFilePointer/SetEndOfFile require elevation?
 
@Mysticial I find it funny that they have a special instruction for that. By the way, does x87 guarantee that sin(pi) == 0?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At it's default levels, it annoys me constantly when I install software (I install a lot of stuff). I got so sick of it I just got into the habit of default to no UAC right when I install/get a computer.
 
5:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus Those don't, but if you try to write anything past the "valid" range, it zeros everything up to it. To get around that you need to use SetFileValidData which requires elevation.
 
@sbi Can't help about real code without... at least real errors.
 
We're awesome.
 
@Crowz Never mind, I'm probably wrong.
 
@ThePhD Oh my, you must really install tons of stuff. I am glad I am not an IT tech like you.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh god it's the beaver.
 
5:13 PM
@MooingDuck That might actually be a good temporary work-around.
 
@StackedCrooked This is ridiculous
 
@Mysticial relaunch itself at a higher elevation?
 
Since y-cruncher.exe does a CPU dispatch and calls one of the sub-binaries in a different process.
 
@Crowz How are your adventures in Haskell coming along?
 
@Mysticial I think it also triggers the UAC btw.
 
5:13 PM
@FredOverflow Haskell? I don't into haskell
 
Of course it does.
If you ask for elevation you get a UAC prompt.
 
@Crowz Oh, then I must have confused you with somebody else, sorry.
 
But that will trigger UAC popup even when it's not needed.
 
@Mysticial Sparse files?
 
Basically, I want to get elevated permission only when the user is doing a computation that requires using disk.
 
5:14 PM
Reading last year's system exam: "give an example of an asynchronous synchronization mechanism." What?????
 
@Cicada Your timer thing reminded me: I have to create a general-purpose dispatcher as well. Which will also introduce me to making a heap.
 
@Mysticial In WinXP you can mark an executable as "Run with different credentials" and when you attempt to run it, Windows will ask who to run it as. That might be an easy workaround maybe.
 
@Cicada Hahahahahaha
 
@Mysticial You can't do that. You can't get escalated privileges at runtime.
 
@Cicada Uni. :| The scourge of the world.
 
5:15 PM
@Cicada fuck... But if that's the case, it would definitely answer my question.
 
@Mysticial oh right, then that works
 
UAC elevation is rather shitty from programmatic point of view
 
Then I think the only way that makes sense right now is to just have y-cruncher.exe launch the sub-binaries with elevation.
 
@Mysticial I'm pretty confident (but I may be wrong) that a process can never acquire privileges at runtime. Only drop them or something.
 
5:17 PM
It'll cause a popup for all computations. But better than not getting them when they are needed.
 
@MooingDuck UAC superseded that, I think.
It even uses "runas" verb in ShellExecute
 
Today I wrote a program to generate the above picture. I feel so awesome!
2
 
@Mysticial or relaunch itself with elevation, whichever is required
 
@FredOverflow OH GOOD LOOK AT ALL THAT ALIASING.
 
Right, anti-aliasing is not covered in the course :)
 
5:18 PM
@Mysticial disk access doesn't seem like a very privileged action to me.
 
@MooingDuck That would wreck havoc on the rest of the program as I'd need to save what state it was in before and transfer it to the new instance. So I don't do that.
 
Xiaolin Wu's Fast Anti-Aliasing Algorithim arghaghaghaghagha Convulses.
 
@FredOverflow What is the logic behind the algorithm? Only one pixel per column?
 
@StackedCrooked That API requires it.
 
@ThePhD Actually, the thin black line is rendered with exactly that algorithm :)
 
5:19 PM
@Mysticial wouldn't it know if it needed elevation right away?
 
@StackedCrooked When you allocate files, you get access to all the data that used to be in that physical part of the drive. That's a security issue.
 
@kbok Classic Bresenham. Which turned 50 by the way. The algorithm, not the person. Happy birthday, Bresenham algorithm!
 
MS's solution is to zero all the data when you first need it. But that kills performance.
 
Sorry, during my Raytracing course they put me through the murderous paces of developing and using various Anti-aliasing algorithms. Suffice to say I just wanted to Gaussian everything and be done with it.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Got it compiling now. I'm starting the test right now...
 
5:19 PM
Who needs security
 
This confirms @Cicada's statement: social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en/…
fuck
 
@FredOverflow I can tell. But the blocks, man. The blocks. All the memories of having to fill in blocks on an exam for the aliasing algorithims. :c
 
@Mysticial Oh for once I'm actually right. surprised
 
@ThePhD I wrote a zoom_in function and called that 4 times in a row. Sorry for the blocks :)
 
@Cicada I can see you dancing right now.
 
5:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes woohoooo
 
But you can totally use COM
 
What's the difference between com and exe?
 
@FredOverflow Ah yeah, I used that for a uni assignment some time ago. Didn't look as nice as I'd wish :(
 
@FredOverflow The first makes you suicidal
 
@FredOverflow COM is a simple and outdated format
 
sbi
5:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ha! Works! Thanks a lot!
 
@FredOverflow He meant COM as in Component Object Model, not the old DOS file format, I am sure.
 
I think I still have my per-pixel renderer written in Sketch or Scratch or whatever that Java nonsense is.
 
I used to write com files by hand. Noting more than a dozen of bytes or so, though.
 
It's like, you just dump assembly code into a file and voila
 
COM is basically flat binary.
 
5:22 PM
What was that very primitive DOS hex editor called again?
 
hexedit?
 
@FredOverflow debug?
 
I remember using debug to test my assembly code :) good times.
 
Probably debug
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right, I think it was debug.
 
5:23 PM
@StackedCrooked You suck.
 
std::unordered_map's syntax and usage is so weird...
.... Is there a function that I can call that just does something like adding a key-value pair (.Add(key, value)) ?
Or do I have to create that key-value pair first?
Maybe I need to use an iterator or something..
 
@ThePhD insert?
 
Er, operator[]?
 
5:26 PM
Isn't it .empty?
 
It might be .end
 
Also seriously uppercased method names are fugly cut it out
 
@CatPlusPlus They are C#ish.
 
try equal_range
 
5:27 PM
They are fugly
 
Hate uppercased methods? Don't look at DOOM 3's source.
 
@CatPlusPlus I lurves my uppercase function names. :c
 
@Cicada Well, what do you expect from a game called DOOM?
 
@Cicada Do they use ALL CAPS? :)
 
@FredOverflow That looks like a the wheel of forturne. (A word with a covered letter.)
 
5:28 PM
The covered letter is a hash ;)
 
@MooingDuck The program has all those options menus where the user selects the settings. It doesn't know whether it needs elevation until it starts a computation.
 
@ThePhD my_unordered_map[new_key] = new_value;
 
@EtiennedeMartel As if the software name could influence the standards used to code it.
 
@Cicada DoomLibRecv and shit ?
 
5:29 PM
@Mysticial picky picky
 
In my experience, most production code tends to use upper camel case.
 
@MooingDuck If the key already exists, it'll do a replace?
 
@ThePhD yes
 
guis
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Channel 5 news, is that you?
 
5:29 PM
Well damn.
 
@Cicada tsis
 
If you want multiple values for each keys, use multimap
 
@ThePhD What were you expecting?
 
So, a thread can voluntarily release the CPU with some call to yield, can a process also do the same?
 
@StackedCrooked Camel case reminds me too much of camel toe, and it distracts me from work.
 
5:30 PM
@Cicada sleep(0);
 
@Cicada Yield ALL THE THREADS. (does not work)
 
@Cicada Processes are not scheduled.
 
@MooingDuck That's on the thread.
 
@FredOverflow That shouldn't be a problem, right?
 
Threads are.
 
5:30 PM
@MooingDuck That's thread based.
@CatPlusPlus So it has to wait for the OS to remove him?
 
Remove what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno. I kinda wanted an insert that'd take insert(key, value), maybe return boolean to tell me if the key already existed.
 
@CatPlusPlus From the CPU.
 
@ThePhD It does.
 
5:31 PM
What
 
@CatPlusPlus A process.
 
pkill -9 -u $(whoami)
 
Process is a group of threads
 
@CatPlusPlus Precisely.
 
If threads are scheduled, there's no point dealing with processes.
 
5:31 PM
@ThePhD Why don't you check the docs?
3
 
Question to C++ and Stephen King fans: Have you read it from begin to end?
 
@ThePhD std::pair<iterator,bool> insert( const std::pair<key, value>& value ); en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/unordered_map/insert
 
But all the insert pairs have some kind of iterator to send with it. Or maybe I'm just using it wrong.
 
No URL today, DNS has gone away..
 
@CatPlusPlus Wait no. Okay I'm confus now
 
5:32 PM
(Don't even try it, there is no excuse for not checking the docs)
 
@ThePhD only 2 out of 6
 
@FredOverflow My collection is empty.
 
... Yep. That's the last time I'm using cplusplus.com . Didn't have two of the methods in cppreference .
 
@StackedCrooked I think I need to read It again. Have never read it in English, if I'm not mistaken.
 
5:33 PM
@Cicada What about?
 
@ThePhD The only thing that cplusplus.com has that cppreference.com doesn't are examples. I like the examples :(
 
Also Google prefers cplusplus.
 
Process is just a meta object, thread is what receives and yields time slices.
 
I like poop.
6
 
@FredOverflow Ultimate proof that they are evil.
 
5:34 PM
@Borgleader Check again. Also, most cplusplus examples are nasty.
 
Everybody poops
 
@CatPlusPlus Except dead bodies. Well, sometimes they poop, but only once, and then never again.
 
@FredOverflow You can remove it if you are logged in.
 
You're always logged in
 
@CatPlusPlus Except in fiction, where nobody poops.
 
5:35 PM
@FredOverflow It's the final poop.
 
Poop must go on
5
 
@CatPlusPlus Are you implying that threads are scheduled independently from the process they belong to? (Aka sausage fest)
 
When you poop in your dreams... you poop for real.
4
 
@CatPlusPlus That would have been a much better alternative to that Céline Dion song.
@Cicada Why is that a sausage fest?
 
@Cicada yes
 
5:37 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I don't know I thought the term would be relevant.
 
@Cicada I don't see how
 
@MooingDuck Open your eyes!
 
@Cicada I don't think you know what a sausage fest is. Well, you probably know, considering you're in an engineering school, but still.
 
@Cicada I'm implying a process as a whole is not scheduled at all.
 
5:37 PM
@Cicada whoa hey, how long has that mountain been there?
 
@Cicada I see them now.
 
you can't schedule a process, scheduling only works on threads.
 
There's really no point to
 
Could you give a process' threads higher priority, though?
 
man, this conversation turned shitty
 
5:38 PM
Or is that just an implementation detail?
 
Process is just a group of attributes that threads inherit
 
individual threads can have varying priorities, IIRC, and affinities
but process has nothing to do with that
 
And they group threads and shit
 
@DeadMG Then what does this mean ;_; > "The algorithm used may be as simple as round-robin in which each process is given equal time (for instance 1 ms, usually between 1 ms and 100 ms) in a cycling list. So, process A executes for 1 ms, then process B, then process C, then back to process A."
 
It means it's academic
 
5:39 PM
My mother just texted my work email. I think I'm going to have a interesting phonecall later
@Cicada s/process/thread
 
Replace process with a thread and you've got a real multithreaded OS, except nobody does pure round-robin
 
@MooingDuck how do you text an email :o
 
@CatPlusPlus Wat. So the "process are scheduled out on I/O" thing is a lie?
 
@Cicada Your academic class may be assuming a Process is a Single Thread.
 
Threads are scheduled
One thread might be doing I/O but that doesn't mean all threads in a process wait
 
5:40 PM
@ThePhD My academic class talks about "asynchronous synchronization mechanisms". The more I read the less I understand.
 
@melak47 <phonenumber>@<phonecompany> (For AT&T that's @mms.att.net)
 
@CatPlusPlus Okay, thanks for clearing that up. It seems logical when I think about it actually.
 
@melak47 no wait, that's email to phone. I'm not sure how she did that actually
 
@CatPlusPlus It's be the responsbility of the developer to schedule lock/block for that kind of stuff, right? I mean, at that level of it.
 
@melak47 I can email a text.
 
5:41 PM
@ThePhD Er, what?
 
@StackedCrooked haw haw :p
 
Ell
@ThePhD the OS schedules threads IIRC
programmers schedule Fibers I think
 
Sorry, edited. Oh goddanmit how do you strikethrough. :c
 
Lock what
 
BAH I give up.
 
5:42 PM
Jesus three strikes
 
Woo!
I'm a pro now.
 
There's a post history here you know
You can just remove stuff
 
@CatPlusPlus Nevermind I think I got it.
 
You can't schedule OS-level threads
 
then who schedules the scheduler? :o
 
5:44 PM
(There was a user-mode scheduling thingy in Win7, but nobody uses it and it's deprecated now or something, I don't know)
@melak47 Er, nobody?
Scheduling happens on hardware interrupts
 
You know what is awesome? This thing was crashing on exit. I decided to clean up the code a bit in some places before I fixed that. Turns out it doesn't crash anymore.
So, time to go home.
 
@CatPlusPlus But you can do user-threads rite?
 
@CatPlusPlus Lock any additional threads it spawns. I mean, at that point the Single Thread that the process was started on would be doing its own spawning-deleting and it would be responsible for how the threads interact with each other, right? The scheduler just has to give threads time: at the level of doing IO and stuff, that's up the individual process to lock-and-block on what it wants to, if ti spawns more threads. Yes? No? Am I crazy? :c
 
@CatPlusPlus fibers? they suck.
 
@Cicada Sure, if you can do context switching
@Abyx Not fibers
 
5:46 PM
@ThePhD All threads are equal.
 
@ThePhD Yes, you're crazy. I have no idea what you're talking about
 
Yeah I still suck at explaining things. ._. Back to my hole.
 
There is no thread responsible for the others.
 
Many language VMs do green/lightweight threads, it's not really rocket science
 
Side note: finally an interesting discussion here in the Lounge.
 
5:47 PM
So how do I schedule a process?
 
You don't.
 
Dammit!
 
@StackedCrooked lol
Anyway Cat thanks a lot for the explanations!
 
@Cicada You mean, finally an interesting discussion involving you, right?
 
Where I actually learn something interesting and unrelated to Shit++.
Oh that killed the room...
 
5:51 PM
Shit++? :(
 
Also known as C on Wheelchair
 
is that some ruby on rails pun?
 
Hmmm an interesting position to be in?!
 
@melak47 I don't think so.
 
async/await ftw.
 
5:56 PM
Only in Canada. What the fuck?
 
@EtiennedeMartel obviously they don't have internet or gamecubes in Canada
 
@melak47 Indeed. I'm currently stealing my Internet connection from the Americans, and my GameCube that's gathering dust somewhere is a figment of my imagination.
 
Bah, consoles
 

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