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sbi
8:07 AM
Tiredly.
Well, me, anyway. I dunno about the others.
@thecoshman Shall I hook you up with them, so you can teach them proper engineering?
@Cicada Given that one of those "local loungers" got him in touch with the company, it's very likely that he has met one or two of them. (In fact, he's even met @Xeo, who lives far out in the woods.)
 
^ NSFW? :)
 
repost I think
@Xeo Schlaf polizei?
 
@ScottW Couldn't it also be C#? Or does C# not allow the String args[] syntax?
Oh, right, silly me :)
String[] foo[] is the best :)
 
sbi
@Cicada Well, let's just say that, judging from your avatar, my hair might well be longer than yours. Also, given my age and sex, and yours, it's very likely that I have much more of it once we're counting the whole body. (I probably have more of it even if we only consider the whole head.) Would that count as "hairy" in your book?
Or were you asking about @Xeo being hairy?
 
The combination of "sex" and "I have much more of it" tripped me up :)
 
sbi
8:16 AM
@Borgleader You are probably compiling all configurations with VC, while they are probably talking about GCC. VC produces some huge debug info. I dunno about GCC.
@ScottW You a speciecist?
@FredOverflow Jealous, eh? :)
@EtiennedeMartel You're prone to knee-jerk reactions. Better?
 
@sbi Well, if somebody has more sex than Cicada, there's bound to be some jealousy, ain't there? ;)
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Nah, it's just at the middle of the continent.
@ScottW Some bacterial species are of a different race than you are?! So you're no dog at all, huh?
 
@sbi Also, I totally don't remember you mentioning having long hair. Somehow I always imagined you short-haired.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I am sure the robot would remember and dig out the relevant quote.
@FredOverflow How would I know how much sex she has?!
 
oodles of it
 
8:25 AM
morning all
 
hello
 
damn it! now I missed what the @me was :(
 
sbi
It was @you. In fact, it still is. Confused look.
 
@sbi yes, yes you should. Big me up, make them think know I am the dogs bollocks. They will be so impressed the pay me an exuberant sum to come out there and do that thing properly
@sbi I didn't notice it until it was fading away after sending a morning greeting :P
@sbi I trust you are familiar with the expression 'the dogs bollocks'
 
sbi
@thecoshman I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
8:28 AM
@sbi Come on, she does assembly for a living! How hot is that?
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, but it sounds ghastly.
@FredOverflow I bet, on average Java programmers have more sex than assembly programmers.
 
@sbi if you describe something as such, you are saying it's really good, hard to beat
@FredOverflow yeah... but she would troll any man who gets close to her so that no one stays. I bet she is a lonely soul
 
@sbi That's just because there's so many Java programmers ;)
 
guys. C and C++ are the same language
haha jk
 
sbi
@thecoshman If now one stays, she wouldn't be lonely.
 
8:30 AM
@mmmshuddup It is if you're ++ blind.
 
sbi
Someone bin the trolling please.
 
:D
I was just jokin, not trolling
 
@sbi Aw, she has a special someone? That's so cute :)
 
@sbi how does tha tlogic work :S
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I was talking in quantities per programmer.
 
8:31 AM
@thecoshman Note the difference between "now" and "no".
 
sbi
@FredOverflow How would I know? The pirate said that, not me.
@FredOverflow Watch out for that table coming along.
 
@sbi By the way, does "cosh" have something to do with pirates?
 
@FredOverflow I am one
 
I am unable to understand "primary clustering"
 
8:33 AM
I thought you where smart @fred
 
@DextOr Hashing is awesome.
 
@DextOr not much we can do then. If only you where able to, but just didn't right now
 
@FredOverflow can you make understand what "primary clustering" is
????
 
@thecoshman Google thinks "cosh" means "cos h" and displays cosine graphs :)
 
Please
 
8:34 AM
@DextOr I would guess it means that many elements end up in roughly the same spot, so you get lots of collisions.
 
@FredOverflow it's also very close to COSHH - Chemicals or Substances Hazardous to Health
 
sbi
@thecoshman You realize that this is a Berlin-based company, that this project has long since been done, that they are well-known to employ junior programmers that work their buts off for little money because they're so proud that they are allowed to work for them, that only 30% of the company's employees are developers, but another 30% are artists, and that you would have to collaborate with those?
 
ok
 
@sbi ¬_¬ dose 'big me up' not translate well to German?
 
@DextOr The link you posted doesn't seem that great, have you looked elsewhere? Wikipedia on Hashing, for example?
 
sbi
8:36 AM
@thecoshman How would I know? I don't even know what that means in Engrish.
 
I also believe that sarcasm stamp needs to be used
 
sbi
@thecoshman Do you really think that you marking your sayings sarcasm would prevent me from answering literally just to spite you?
 
@FredOverflow I am unable to get anything other then this talking about "primary clustering"
 
@sbi think along the lines of what most animals do, they make them selves look bigger then they are in order to seem more powerful. In short, I am asking you decorate the truth
@sbi no, but I can then follow your retorts by proclaiming you a douche... but I could do that either way
 
sbi
@thecoshman But that won't work as soon as you're in the first meeting and blurt it all out. And I care about that reputation I have for suggesting employees that fit very well.
@thecoshman Yeah, and it wouldn't help you a bit.
 
8:39 AM
@DextOr Imagine you have 26 tiny book shelves capable of holding 1 book only, labeled A-Z. Stroustrup goes in the S shelf, Ritchie goes in the R shelf, Reynolds goes in the, dang, R is already taken, let's try S, dang also taken, let's store it in T then. Now you already have a cluster of size 3. Get it?
Going from R to S to T is called "linear probing" by the way.
 
sbi
A well-picked analogy. You have a knack for teaching, I bet.
 
@sbi hey, I wouldn't so stupid as to sit in an interview and blurt out how hilarious it is that I trolled them so much
 
(Reading)
 
sbi
Also, would that be the Alastair Reynolds, @Fred? Because I think he is awesome.
 
@sbi Thanks :) It's probably the only thing I'm actually reasonably good at.
@sbi I have no idea, "Reynolds" was the first "second R name" that came to mind :)
 
sbi
8:42 AM
@FredOverflow Too bad. :( I thought I had finally found someone here who has read him.
 
:D @FredOverflow nice try
 
hi there
 
@sbi just encase you haven't quite cottoned on... I do not wish you to try hooking me up with a job playing with balls
 
@sbi I'm not into science fiction novels. I have no idea why, though. Maybe I should give him a try/catch/finally? :)
 
sbi
@thecoshman Too late, their signed contract enslaving you for 10 years is already on its way. Accompanied by one of their ghastly Signature Enforcers.
 
8:44 AM
@sbi (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Haha, sbi will get them all eventually. Someday the whole Lounge will be working in Berlin :)
6
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I hadn't read any SF for more than a decade (almost two, really), when I ran into Charles Stross' Singularity Sky and fell in love again with it. Since then I have been ploughing my way through lots of stuff that wasn't available to me when I was younger.
@thecoshman You might want to pick this table up again and try whether it can be employed for barring the door.
@FredOverflow Hey, you need a teaching job in Berlin? I know two FH's that constantly are on the lookout for different courses.
 
@sbi fuck that, I'm running... whilst still on the room, just don't question it too much
 
sbi
Ah, but FH's usually require 3 years of actual working experience in the industry. Well, they might make exceptions if you're a good fit.
 
FH?
 
sbi
8:49 AM
@thecoshman A German classification term for higher education places. It's less academical than universities, leaning more towards the practical side.
 
@sbi ah, I think the equivalent here would be 'polytechnic'
I say here, I mean England of course
 
@FredOverflow look at this Question "Consider a hash table with 50 slots i.e.
m : 50, and key value k : 1632, 1739, 3123.
Calculate k^2 and h(k)."
 
as you can see, I have really settled down in Ireland, I feel right at home
 
That's nice.
 
@DextOr What is h(k)? Is it a known function, or do you have to come up with it yourself?
 
8:52 AM
I dont know may be hashing function
 
sbi
@thecoshman IIUC, I think a polytechnic is even less academical than a FH. FH's are akin to technical colleges. (If "collage" is too vague a term in the English world, use the Merkin meaning.)
 
How can I help if I don't even know what h(k) is? :)
 
(a)4. (i) What are the different types of hash functions ?
How can clus tering involved in linear probing
be avoided ? Explain any two methods.
(ii) Consider a hash table with 50 slots i.e.
m : 50, and key value k : 1632, 1739, 3123.
Calculate k^2 and h(k). @FredOverflow complete Q
 
Maybe h(k) = k % 50 because of the table size? Then you get 32, 39 and 23.
And please don't tell me you cannot calculate k^2. That simply means k squared, also known as k * k or "multiply k with itself".
 
So you think its Division hashing method .. Right
?
 
8:54 AM
Just a wild guess, I wouldn't know what else it could mean.
 
This university is planing to kill with their strange looking Question papers :S
 
@sbi In England a collage is bellow a Uni. We do compulsory school, then we can stay on at school for '6th form' a sort of extended school, completely optional, but you only get this one chance to do it. The alternative to 6th form is collage, where you can get various levels of stuff. Then you can progress to Uni/polytechnic. Polytechnics are sort of looked own on for not quite being a proper university, but really, they are all equal, but some are more equal then others (read Oxbridge)
 
What does "polytechnic" mean, anyway? Multiple technics? :)
I have a Technics CD player and a Technics amplifier, so...
 
sbi
@thecoshman Don't try. I have a hard time figuring out the school system in Germany despite me having several kids in different schools. I'll never understand that of several other countries...
 
@FredOverflow I have no idea
 
sbi
8:58 AM
@thecoshman The pirate starred this irrelevant message.
 
@sbi I understand the Abitur was shortened to 12 years sometime. Anything else I forgot :)
 
@sbi it's not that hard really
@sbi I stared that in deffence
 
sbi
:b
 
¬_¬ you monkeying around again?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Actually, coming from my background it was prolonged to 13 years in some states.
I don't even see that.
Well, it seems my tracing feature test program ran well for 18hrs now, processing about 250k of message data per second. So maybe I don't have any real big fuckups in this concurrency code anymore. Nice to know.
And time now to move on to other things.
off to work.
 
9:02 AM
@sbi /wave
 
1
A: C++ vs C# Pre/Postincrement Operation

Tom WijsmanC# acts like PEMDAS, C++ instead uses operator calls where the parameter is evaluated first. int i = 0, j = 0; i += i + ++i; j += ++j + j; However in C++ I get i = 3, j = 3 which was not expected... When you do i += i + ++i you are preparing to do an operator+= call on i; before you can...

^ Is he really saying that i += i + ++i; and j += ++j + j; are well-defined in C++? Where is the UB police?
Just to be sure, i += i + ++i; and j += ++j + j; are completely undefined. Anything can happen. The C++ standard does not mandate any particular result. — FredOverflow 8 secs ago
 
it's to be clear, not to be sure
 
is there a way to replace lower case characters with upper case ones with sed? sorry for the offtopic-ness
well regex
 
@FredOverflow Really, it's basically about elitism on the part of Oxbridge and similar universities, where they want to look down on other universities. But the polytechnics won and most of them are universities now.
 
well, you could through a butt load of regex at it
 
9:07 AM
@thecoshman thx, fixed
 
... >.>
 
@DeadMG you have any idea what the term means though?
@user9000 s/a/A/ s/b/B/ etc.
 
yeah that sounds retarded lol
 
you can capture all lowercase though, s/[a-z]/<magic>/ but I am not sure what the magic part would be
 
[A-Z]?
 
9:09 AM
s/[a-z]/[A-Z]/ would be nice if that worked, but I doubt it will
 
i'll give that a try
 
well in the expression i += i + ++i, the right-hand side must be evaluated first, and so you have "i + ++ i" at this point that may have undefined behavior
 
SED or AWK should be able to do it easy enough though, they are a bit smarter
 
@thecoshman Sure. Roughly translated, it's like, "school of many arts".
 
Though if there is anything which says that expressions on equal standing are evaluated left to right, then there's no undefined behavior
i gets evaluated to i, then it evaluates ++i
 
9:10 AM
@Neil There isn't.
 
@Neil What makes you think the right-hand side must be evaluated first?
 
@DeadMG Well then it's undefined :)
 
@DeadMG any idea when people started to get lazy and fuse Oxford and Cambridge together?
 
heh, it replaced the characters with [A-Z]
 
@thecoshman Nope.
also
 
9:10 AM
@FredOverflow because it must be assigned to some value..
 
@user9000 all of them? or literally the string '[A-Z]'
 
the Standard does not mandate the whole evaluation of those expressions.
 
lower case ones
 
as in, ++i returns i + 1, but the actual incrementation of i only has to occur at some point before the next sequence point.
 
I wasn't really meaning to argue that point so much as I'm just trying to get a handle on what has undefined behavior exactly
 
9:11 AM
@Neil In the expression a = b, it is undefined which side is evaluated first. In Java, the left side is evaluated first, so i=0; a[i++] = i; means a[0] = 1.
 
@thecoshman actually no, it replaced the pattern before [a-z] with [A-Z]
 
and the Standard is written to permit parallelisation of these side effects
 
@FredOverflow Hmm, I see what you mean.. it's the "i +=" that can cause confusion
 
@user9000 so 'aBc' turned into 'ABC...XYZBABC...XYZ'
 
@Neil You have to read the standard for that. Most operators do not dictate a particular order of evaluation for their operands. Notable exceptions are ?:, && and ||. And the comma operator, of course :)
 
9:13 AM
@FredOverflow If it's not defined, then you cannot know the outcome of an expression dependent upon the order of execution
 
@thecoshman no, I did `sed -i 's/__[a-z]/_[A-Z]/g' *.c' and when i diff'ed the files it replaced __'s with _[A-Z]
 
but imho, that was a mistake not to address a proper execution order
 
@Neil No. If something is not defined, then you cannot reason about the whole program once that bit of code has been reached. It is when things are unspecified that you cannot reason about expressions, values.
 
@Neil Right. It's even worse; i++ +i can result in anything, not just the two "sane" results you would expect. It would be perfectly legal for a conforming C++ compiler to go into an infinite loop or start a Tetris game when it sees i++ + i.
 
'operation X is not defined' => 'we cannot promise that the program will not blow up when operation X is attempted'.
 
9:15 AM
@user9000 yeah, I think you are going to need to use AWK, I am fairly sure it can set a capture for [a-z] and have it convert what it captured to upper case
 
@Neil I agree. That's why Java fixed it.
 
@thecoshman stackoverflow.com/questions/4569825/… going to try that
 
From a specification point of view, you're right, it could do anything on that command
though it probably just evaluates it left to right
 
Actually, I think there was a C++ compiler back in the days that started a Snake clone when it encountered UB.
 
Not that you should count on that
 
9:17 AM
yeah, but even stating that '+' does the left side then the right, i++ + ++i is still undefined, as you can not say what 'i' the right hand side works on, or if the i++ is done after then entire line is processed and ++i before anything else in that line
 
During my last course on C, I did an experiment and asked the students to execute int i = 0; printf("%d %d\n", i++, i); They got a different result on Visual Studio than I did on gcc. The looks on their faces... priceless :)
 
@user9000 I assume sed has an \U
@FredOverflow any one get a pizza delivered?
 
lol
 
not yet :(
 
damn it, why does UB never result in a pizza begin delivered?
 
9:20 AM
According to Stephan T. Lavavej, undefined behavior can send an email to your boss, telling him you quit :)
@thecoshman Maybe it was delivered elsewhere and you just didn't notice.
 
@FredOverflow One of the GCC variants did something similar.
 
That's probably what I was thinking of.
 
@FredOverflow maybe... but that sucks
¬_¬ do you think GCC has a function some where that is called when UB is encountered...
a slight tweak to the sauce code, and you got a very elaborate pizza ordering tool
 
If I ever write a pizza ordering tool, I will call it i+++i :)
 
oh, when using a shared object, how do you deal with run time errors that a symbol is not the same size in the shared object?
@FredOverflow needs more plusses
 
9:25 AM
Not the same as what?
 
> Symbol `glXCreateContextAttribsARB' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking
@ScottW variety
 
Oh that's bad.
 
@LucDanton my error?
 
Yes.
 
@FredOverflow Call it pizza+++pizza
 
9:29 AM
Not as bad as not getting any error, so don't fret.
 
Laymens will think the pluses are decoration, but we'll know the truth
 
why are you people so stingy with your plusses? have you git pins sticking up from that key or something?
 
@thecoshman Because pizza+++pizza is perfect... pizza++++pizza is just excessive
 
you git!
 
@sehe you subversion!
 
9:32 AM
@Neil pizza+++azzip
@thecoshman monotone...
 
@sehe you'd like an ass IP wouldn't you
 
@thecoshman found it! sed -i 's/__(.*)_h/_\U\1_H/' *.h
 
@user9000 go reqard yourself with an e-cookie
 
1k2 LoC for optional sounds wrong. OTOH plenty of one-liners which definition still take 4-5 lines.
 
=)
 
9:38 AM
@sehe That's not undefined.
 
Actually I blame partial specializations.
Primary template is 400 LoCs, that's short and sweet.
ish.
 
@FredOverflow depends. int pizza, &azzip(pizza); ....
@LucDanton Well, still sounds (over?) complicated. So many specializations, don't they indicate some logic could be taken out of this particular class? Would appear to be more general, on first thought
@thecoshman regard? retard? Rénard? oh... I see
 
I think the three type definitions for optional<T>, optional<T&> and optional<T&&> are way more readable than one big mess of primary template with esoteric constraints everywhere.
 
@LucDanton Sure. If that's all that's specialized on... 1k2 is quite a lot
Ah. 400*3 ~= 1k2, so that;s accounted for then :)
 
9:45 AM
@sehe ¬_¬ I was sure I fixed that typo... 'reward'
 
sed s/re/awk/
(the pirate did not star this irrelevant message, though)
 
@sehe oh very clever
 
obviously
 
s/very clever/go fuck your self/
 
@sehe I don't think I've made you read much of my code before, and I don't know how familiar you are with the kind of generic programming that goes on in e.g. Boost.Optional, but if you don't mind I'd like to have your feedback on just the type definition of optional<T>, to see if it's understandable to an extent.
When I'm done with my tweaks here.
 
9:47 AM
@thecoshman sorry, at work. It would be regarded (note: not 'rewarded') as offensive
 
@sehe I see...
 
@LucDanton I haven't looked at much. I keep forgetting where it's at (bb 'mickey' or sumtin?) - but yeah a 'grokkability' test would certainly be something I should be good for. Not so much for correctness/completeness :)
 
foo<tuple_size::value == 1> won't SFINAE? Odd...
 
Hahaha. I just got "enlightened" for this answer:
10
A: Visual Studio "Find in Files" does not work

seheI think I recognize this wellknown, longstanding bug: http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/105511/find-in-files-says-no-files-were-found-to-look-in-find-was-stopped The workaround mentioned there worked for me when I had this problem I found a tip to try pressing Ct...

I guess, thank you microsoft for leaving your bugs in for poor SO repwhores to farm points off :)
@LucDanton is_odd<1> is indeed true
 
You'd think after all this time, microsoft would have gotten the hang of searching for files
 
9:53 AM
Whoah, I think that means I need a TupleSize alias. Did not expect that.
 

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