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sbi
10:00 PM
Also, I have to deal with Windows XP.
 
@sbi looks like a time to quit that job
 
@sbi oh god... is this company really that strapped for cash that they can't have updated software?
 
@sbi Well, it's actually better in many respects especially on new hardware (due to the fact that it doesn't require new hardware). It actually runs in less 1/10th of memory requirement of a regular Win7 (that is stock Win32 XP)
@Mysticial just not in the business of following fashion?
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, it has. But how would I get into their network without knowing any of the relevant passwords? They do not allow you to log in with your phone.
 
Man, is the internet sloppy. The linux install has been running since 2pm.
 
sbi
10:02 PM
@Abyx Yeah. You happen to have a well-paying job for me in Berlin? C++, preferably.
 
@sehe Yeah but Windows 7 64-bit allows for more memory than Win32 XP obviously.
 
@sbi I haven't been at a place that allows that. Ever. Relevant passwords is the key.
 
Ell
I've always wondered why new OSs keep needing higher specs?
 
@Ell because they do more stuff
 
@sbi nirsoft has some essentials that reveals the passwords for network shares, proxies etc.
 
10:02 PM
@Ell It's a conspiracy between software and hardware companies to make more money. :)
 
@jalf But not exponentially, if you ask me
 
Ell
Really? Doesn't look like it :L just a change in ui and some windows explorer features
 
@Ell Optimizations strategies are calibrated for a typical use
 
sbi
@Mysticial That company is an offshoot of a big one, and their IT is managed by the bigger one. And there, it seems nobody bothered to invest the time and money.
 
@Rapptz True, that. Running /PAE might help. WinXP 64 is not a recommendation I'd make (some SPs/updates haven't been done for XP64 so Visual Studio runs... even slower)
 
10:04 PM
@sbi ah... I can see how that can happen.
 
@sehe But WinXP is slow as fuck.
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 needs even less resources. So?
 
I'd rather Win7 used a bit more memory than WinXP, since it puts that to good effect
 
sbi
@sehe Well, when I'm not in their net, I cannot work.
 
@sbi Hey, I'm trying to highlight the positives here...
 
10:05 PM
If you're looking for something light, GRUB is the best.
 
@sbi Remote desktops? That would make most of the pain about the choice of laptop go away (non-local adminness, frrrurg-worthy software choice - less of a burden)
 
sbi
@sehe Right, I can very well envision that: On my second day at work, I break into their Wifi, because I am circumventing the restrictions they put into place for security reasons. I am very sure this would put me into a great position in my new job.
 
Why did you switch jobs?
 
Ok, so the linux install is nearly finished. I wonder if there's still this funny bug in hal where you start the system and everything freezes and it's normal and documented.
 
sbi
@Rapptz An important personal reason, plus me wanting to go back to C++.
 
10:06 PM
@sbi Huh? No need to break in to things. I'm just naming utilities. Also, wifi has got zero to do with that, unless you are trying to say, there is no LAN?
 
Oh I see.
 
sbi
@sehe How can I remote-desktop into some other machine when I can't get into the net??
@sehe There. Is. No. LAN.
There, I said it.
 
holy shit...
 
Who knew we had poets on the Standard committee? stackoverflow.com/a/12681690/103167
 
"I'm not saying you should breach their network, just that this company has some tools for breaching networks". And "I'm not saying XP is better for using fewer resources, just that it actually runs better especially on new hardware"
any chance you could make up your mind, @sehe? ;)
 
10:08 PM
@sbi What are you doing? Are you trying to pick on everything I say. Or even ask?
 
Not having LAN is like going back to the days without toilet paper. It makes life that much harder.
 
sbi
Really, I feel like a secretary that must be prevented from installing anything that promises to show kitten pix.
 
I asked whether your statement "when I'm not in their net, I cannot work" meant that you are using remote desktops for development.
 
I'd better get some sleep. Have fun, all
 
@jalf I don't have to decide zilch. Nor does anyone else, not on my part
 
10:09 PM
@jalf peace out
 
@jalf night
 
@sbi I guess that meant "yes - we use remote desktops". All I was saying was: on the actual development machines, you might have different (less restrictive) software specs and admin rights. In fact, pretty hight chance it is different.
 
@sbi uhm... but you are programmer, aren't you? just write and build all the stuff you need :)
 
sbi
@sehe Oh, I got that wrong then. Sorry. No, I need to access resources on their net, and I need to transfer my compiled code to the hardware it's supposed to run on using FTP.
@Abyx Yeah, but what does that help if I don't have admin rights to then run the stuff??
 
@sbi Wow. How can you do development on a box that is pretty much locked down? Well, time will tell, I guess :)
 
sbi
10:12 PM
@sehe This laptop is my actual development machine.
 
Pretty strange situation. Except for the 'the IT infrastructure is managed by the big firm'. I've seen that time and time again. And I've never seen it work for developers
 
sbi
@sehe That's exactly my question! I had to call the admin thrice before I was able to compile a checked-out copy of their code, because some tool or another needed access to some folder in c:\program files, and didn't have that access...
 
@sbi dafuq- you're a dev, not a child.
 
And yeah, I've been in the same boat so many times. And yeah, I happily subverted the policies, tunneled through firewalls, switched network cables. Always after ample thought, well within ethics boundaries, making sure at least one project manager would "kind-of know" what I was doing.
 
I'm actually kinda hungry.
I should eat some real breakfast/lunch for once
 
10:16 PM
Haven't felt guilty about that once. And only been berated once. I guess a lot of that had to do with me being able to give (and giving) after-hours support and stuff with that
 
sbi
@sehe By flipping the wrong switch I can blow up a 1MW battery that costs more than they'll pay me in a decade, but I cannot be trusted to install Thunderbird on my machine, because being able to access my private email accounts "isn't work-relevant".
 
Hehe. I'm sensing a healthy dose of frustration. You'll probably find a mode. Well, after you get that admin to install Vim :)
(half-kidding, half-kidding)
 
@sbi You can't just do it online through a browser? Or do they block gmail and such?
 
@sbi btw, what IDE do you use there? MSVS2005 without VAX?
 
The last time I worked on a VAX...
Oh wait
 
sbi
10:19 PM
@Mysticial Of course, I can, but why would I have to?? I got about a dozen email accounts at, I think, four different providers. Why would they want me to go through the hoops of accessing them all through stupid web interfaces?
 
Bah, company computers.
 
sbi
@Abyx Something proprietary employing GCC4.
 
@sbi True. I got around that by forwarding everything into my gmail.
 
sbi
@sehe The thing is, in the last two jobs I had, I was happily using my work machine for everything. Work emails, private stuff, checked out code, my music, it was all on that one machine, I had it always turned on, and would always read work emails.
If it was important, I would answer, no matter where and when. Sometimes, an interesting problem would draw me in and I would fix a bug sitting in my garden house at Saturday night. But given this state of affairs, I will need my own machine for my private stuff. And then, why would I ever turn on my work machine except when I'm at work? They're just pissing onto their own cake.
@Mysticial Yeah, but there is a reason, you know, that I do not have a dozen email accounts at gmail, but at many different providers.
 
@sbi Wait. You're still having to carry it in and back home? That's pretty useless in this context
 
sbi
10:25 PM
@sehe No, I don't have to. It's just that, in order to work from home, I would have to take it home. (You don't think they'd allow developers to VPN into work from their private machines...)
 
Xeo
AT HOME! FINALLY AT HOME!
 
sbi
Also, having to buy my own machine would be a severe stress on my financial resources, and a considerably in what they pay me.
 
@sbi The latter makes an inkling of sense. Good to hear they actually allow work from home. I can see how that makes up for a bit of the fuzz
 
@Xeo who's home?
 
Xeo
Me.
 
sbi
10:27 PM
@Xeo So will you get the job?
 
Xeo
Looking good, going to hear from them within 2 days
 
sbi
> We should think ourselves very lucky that Alan Turing didn't patent "a single machine which can be used to compute any computable sequence" Jason Gorman
5
 
Hear hear
 
@Xeo Mwahaha, I arrived first :P
 
gotta agree
 
Xeo
10:29 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes heh.
 
I'm off to bed (@sbi making progress with the getting more sleep. I'm at three days ~8 hrs now)
 
night
 
Xeo
night
 
afterevening
 
sbi
You now starred an absolute dull and stupid message.
6
 
Xeo
10:34 PM
@sbi Double-click? I need a single click.
 
sbi
@Xeo Not with XP.
 
Xeo
Oh, I read it wrong.
 
sbi
Damn, I'm in a foul mood now. I think I should go to bed.
@Xeo Good luck!
 
Xeo
Btw, I have experience with locked-down boxes.
 
Ell
sleep easy :)
 
Xeo
10:38 PM
The computers at Ingeus are all locked-down, not even right-click works in Windows or IE
 
@sbi Good night.
@Xeo Hope you get it.
 
posted on October 01, 2012 by Scott Meyers

It seems that the marketing department at Addison-Wesley has been working overtime, and one of the plots they hatched to lure you to their web site, where they're offering free shipping (within the USA) and a 30% discount if you buy one C++ book and 40% if you buy two or more, is a chance to win a free copy of the digital bundle of my three C++ books.  They even sent me this snazzy graphic

 
Ell
I can't right click at school :/
 
sbi
I didn't say I will, I only said I should!
 
Xeo
Thanks guys.
 
sbi
10:40 PM
@sehe I had too little sleep last night, on account of the robot forcing me to drink and listen to his music until 2:30 in the morning.
 
sbi
@Xeo What? At a game shop? And you're supposed to be creative in a locked-down environment?
 
@sbi That's not entirely accurate.
 
Xeo
@sbi Ingeus, the job finder helper thing.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Do you have a script that plinks you when someone types "robot"?
 
10:41 PM
No.
 
Xeo
@sbi Be glad I didn't force you to listen to my music. :D
 
@Xeo hehe
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah, that. Well, I can somehow understand that, because they'll probably have lots of stupid people there, and it's only for a short time anyway.
 
Xeo
Aye
 
Ell
What is Etiennes full @ name?
 
sbi
10:42 PM
@Xeo From what I know, you do not listen to music.
 
Xeo
It's nerve-wracking to find out you can't easily save a picture from the web, though.
 
@Ell @ EtiennedeMartel.
 
Xeo
You can't just ctrl-S, since it doesn't let you open the filesystem
"Etienne" would suffice, though, I think
 
Xeo
Oh wait, he's still in the auto-completion
 
sbi
10:43 PM
@Ell If you just type @, followed by Et, the chat will tell you.
 
Xeo
@sbi :(
 
sbi
@Ell ROTFLSHSTC!
 
Ell
@sbi I am mobile impaired :(
 
Anyone in the mood to thrash another meta post?
 
sbi
@Ell I am permissively impaired.
 
10:45 PM
@Ell Well, damn.
 
Ell
Har har
 
Oh, FFS, my audio drivers seem to have crashed.
 
switching through tabs reminds me of those memory games where you flip a square and you have to match up the images :D
 
Ell
Anyway, bedy bies. Nighty night
 
I think I'll have to reboot this crap.
 
sbi
10:50 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't whine, just route your audio through your computer.
Also, this is a written medium, so there's no need for you to talk.
 
@sbi But the plinks!
(Also, music)
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes They can be produced by your laptop, so where's the problem?
 
@sbi It was the laptop's audio drivers that blew up.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, so you lied to us? Pretty advanced, for a robot.
 
Xeo
10:55 PM
wtf
 
um...
 
Xeo
the ape trolling the robot
 
sbi
How does the cat always say? "Well, I'd never!"
 
PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT ME
 
sbi
Am I the only one who doesn't have that plink-without-@ script?
Well, bed time, now. Good night!
 
Xeo
11:02 PM
night
I'm also gonna hit the sack, been up for a good 21 hours
 
night to both of you. :)
 
24 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sbi Good night.
 
watching Dexter's Season 7 opener
 
@DeadMG Ohh... it's good! Enjoy.
 
man
why doesn't Dex just be goddamn honest with Deb?
 
11:08 PM
You'll find out later in the episode.
 
mmm
 
@CatPlusPlus Caps and shit.
 
Supercaps.
 
Cat caps.
 
Wait... why would being "expensive" even matter? "My program can pause more efficiently than yours!" — Mysticial 16 secs ago
 
11:12 PM
It's not that it's expensive, it's just enormously silly.
 
Oh, silly benchmarks.
 
Hey guys I start up two new processes to pause my program.
Which by the way is a stupid thing to do even if you don't start up two processes to do that.
 
Apparently, Apple Maps up to five times more data efficient than Google Maps. I think I know why. Reminds of "it is easy to make a fast program that outputs garbage"
 
Because they drop 5 times as much data?
Also that question links to a hilarious page.
> You must include a header you probably don't need: stdlib.h or cstdlib
OH NO
 
oh man
La Guerta found that blood slide
 
11:15 PM
A HEADER THAT IS MOST LIKELY INCLUDED ANYWAY
 
@DeadMG WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SPOILING:
 
@DeadMG Is Dexter the drug chemist guy or the serial murderer?
 
@CatPlusPlus That site is soooo bad.
 
if you're being spoiled, why didn't you mention it previously? :P
 
> C/C++ programmers are sometimes allowed to do some things they really shouldn't.
:siren:
> main() is an integer function
 
11:17 PM
Things to avoid in C++: gets, fflush(stdin), feof, system("pause"), scanf, and void main().
 
So the bottom line is void main()
* is wrong according to the standards.
* is not guaranteed to work properly.
* may cause problems for the operating system.
Ahahahahahaha
 
That's golden
It links to more pages.
 
er, I don't think the OS gives a shit
 
11:19 PM
@Mysticial It matters because even though that process might not need CPU time at the moment, it's entirely possible that another process could really use it. Granted, that's 1) not very common, 2) not a major factor even when it does happen, and 3) pretty much applicable to homework code anyway (but we can't even mention that any more).
 
> If the caller declares main() as returning int, and you define main() as returning void, the declarations are mismatched, just as the declarations of sqrt() were in the previous example. In theory, the resulting program can fail in just the same sorts of ways. But, to reiterate, here we can't fix the problem by fixing the caller (because the caller is, er, fixed). Instead, we have to fix main's declaration, which is under our control, to match the caller's expectation.
Ahahahahahahahaha
 
WTF.
What the fuckety fuck.
 
void main breaks CRT guys
Startup code needs your declaration to be perfect
 
oh yeah, just like _wmain and all the rest of them
 
> Even if the program with the misdeclared main() "works" (that is, compiles without error, and runs without crashing), it does result in a garbage (random) exit status being returned to the calling environment.
welp
Oh wait, that post is from '96.
 
11:21 PM
Some people are living in the nineties or something.
@CatPlusPlus Ok, that makes it kind of justified.
It shouldn't be on the Internet any more.
 
It's still funny, because the compiler was probably shitty.
 
> But using system("PAUSE") is like burning your furniture for heat when you have a perfectly good thermostat on the wall.
Wait, why the fuck would anyone burn a thermostat for heat?
4
 
Also, I believe C89 allows for implementation-defined mains too
Diving into standards is boring so whatever, it's funny anyway
Let's move on to the next page
All I see is broken compilers.
Aw, the third link doesn't work.
I do want to see OS that launches another OS to do system() though.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Sponsored by Bad Horse. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Hi all. Just a heads-up, for those who like C++: InformIT is having a sale on C++ books, up to 40% off. informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=138989&meyers The list of books includes a lot of great books, including most of those on The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List.
12
 
Oh noes, spam! pins it
 
11:34 PM
@JamesMcNellis I was going to joke about flagging for spam, but then paranoidly thought someone might counterflag me not realizing I was joking
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Funny, because I very nearly reflexively binned it.
but when my mouse moved over the message to bin, I noticed the name and I was like "Hang on, maybe you should read the message in a little more detail first."
 
If it came from anyone else, it definitely would've been binned instantly. :)
 
Well.
 
hmm, I wonder if I can coax my company to spring for an Effective C++ book where exceptions are not a theoretical concept.
 
11:37 PM
Windows doesn't like me, I've learned.
 
Oh good; well, next week I'll come back with a link to unbelievably low-cost Rolexes that can help you to enlarge your mortgage.
4
 
@ThePhD Who does?
 
@DeadMG Nobody. I was depending on Windows.
 
lol
 
Without it, the only thing standing between me and the razorblade is my dog.
 
11:38 PM
heh, one of the books is "teach yourself C++ in one hour a day." It doesn't bother to make any claims as to how many days :D
@ThePhD who else would feed the guy?
 
1000 days.
 
@MooingDuck I dunno. A bunch of other more-decent human beings?
 
@JamesMcNellis On my screen, that message is separated into two lines and the first one ends on "enlarge your". Given the topic of spam I was a bit afraid of what was going to be on the next line.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes me too, except three lines
 
11:40 PM
I think I'm forgetting something vitally important.
Because my Window creates itself, and then IMMEDIATELY destroys itself.
It's like Hey the- FUCK I'M OUT.
ANd I'm like "Wait come back. =["
 
@ThePhD Probably forgot to pump messages/someshit like that.
or you wrote a Window class but forgot Rule of Three and you don't have unique_ptr because you're using a suck compiler
 
Pump messages.... with PeekMessage, right?
 
@ThePhD step through with a debugger
 
@MooingDuck I think stepping through isn't going to cut it, because I do CreateWindowEx, it returns a valid hWnd, the screen flickers to go into fullscreen, and then the windows just shits itself right off the bat, before I even make it to ShowWindow(hwnd, SW_SHOW)
 
for our telephone system we're adding prerecorded reasons someone might be away for people to use. Whoever wrote this spec just wrote in everything he could think of. :( "lets spend lots of money making sure every user has that option to have paternity leave and sabbatical or being at the lab"
 
11:45 PM
@ThePhD GetMessage() normally.
 
Use text-to-speech?
 
@ThePhD the program shuts down inside CreateWindowEx when you're stepping through?
 
@ThePhD Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooode.
 
@MooingDuck Shitload of parameters on that call, that and RegisterWindowClass. All too easy to screw up:((
 
11:46 PM
@MooingDuck I can't step into that function, I don't have the source or dissasembly for Windows, roflmao. But, I step (over) CreateWindowEx and it just dies.
 
@CatPlusPlus Management doesn't like TTS unless absolutely necessary. "It sounds bad"
@ThePhD that's bad.
 
Of course it sounds bad, it's a phone.
You can step into system functions, it will disassemble on the go (but yeah, not very useful)
 
@CatPlusPlus also, an accidental experiment showed that our customers preferred the Spanish TTS to the Spanish recordings :(
 
You suck at Spanish
 
... Wait a second. Question.
 
11:48 PM
@ThePhD Answer.
 
Are Windows transparent by default?
 
@ThePhD they aren't anything by default. They show whatever was there on teh screen before them
 
Also what the hell is the purpose of that system anyway, do you each own your own phones or what
 
@CatPlusPlus it's a automated answering/voicemail/calendaring/contacts/whateverthefrickyouwant system.
 
Don't you have support guys in India or whatever to handle customer calls
 
11:50 PM
@CatPlusPlus are you still talking to me?
 
... Welp. I can't see a window. Fullscreen or not. I don't want to paste the code into here but let me see if there's some place I can dump it, like an irresponsible waste disposal company.
 
Yes.
@MooingDuck ...use computers?
 
@CatPlusPlus oh, we were testing new functionality and called a few customers into teh office to help us fix some issues with the Spanish voice recognition. During which the spanish recordings failed and it fell back on TTS.
@ThePhD ideone.com
 
@MooingDuck I was gonna pastebin, but alright!
 
Butts.
 
11:53 PM
(I'm so cool, I know how to make links.)[ideone.com/25eUs]
2
... DERP
 
@ThePhD HAHAHAHAHA
 
You're typing awfully slowly.
 
[I'm so uncool right now, it hurts.](ideone.com/25eUs)
hdjhawdkwd
WORK DAMNIT WORKKKK
 
@ThePhD http://
 
Looks this shit up.
 
11:54 PM
First of all, zero up WNDCLASSEX before you start filling it.
 
Uh, I shoulkd mention hinstance, hwn are class members, as well as windowname.
windowname is actually "Party Hard" right now. Just to see if I can get it to show up.
 
@ThePhD I'm not certain why that failed
@ThePhD I figured that, else it wouldn't compile
 
Question. Most people use ZeroMemory to zero-out structs when doing WIndows Programming.
 
@ThePhD that's not a question
 
Is it still legal to also just use memset(&target, 0, sizeof(target)) ?
 
11:56 PM
use = {0};
 
Don't use memset ever.
 
@ThePhD yeah.
 
Is... memset evil?
 
@Abyx does that work in WIndows? Oh wait, right. yeah, do that.
@ThePhD most C functions are. memset takes a void*, so yes.
 
@MooingDuck What.
 
11:57 PM
@CatPlusPlus I was thinking uniform initialization.
 
What does OS have to do with it
 
@CatPlusPlus When I see windows, I automatically (not always correctly) assume MSVC
 

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