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6:00 PM
@DeadMG But to jail people for teaching their own children their own beliefs, would be.... getting away with all sorts of shit that would never be allowed...
Extreme prejudice is just as evil, regardless of who commits it.
 
This whole discussion started on a false premise
 
I feel equally towards people who teach their children criminality
 
Yeah, what's the whole discussion about?
 
the important fact that Creation <-> Science has been omitted somewhere
 
I have nothing against religion as opposed to any other form of organized stupidity, like drug gangs
 
6:01 PM
How Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs?
 
Now you have to define <->.
 
@DeadMG But religion is not against the law.
 
@CatPlusPlus Perl to the rescue.
 
@CatPlusPlus <-> is the extreme version of != in C++
 
extreeeeme!
 
6:02 PM
@Xaade You can't legalize people's minds to become healthier.
 
@EtiennedeMartel In a lot of ways. Thankfully it isn't so bad in Europe and America.
 
That doesn't mean that I think it should be legal to allow them to spread their sickness.
well, you can try
 
@Xaade I think christianity is the least persecuted religious group if you look at solid numbers.
 
if it worked, we wouldn't have such a crime problem
 
@DeadMG Then you don't believe in free speech.
 
6:03 PM
@Xaade Cry me a river. There are idiots everywhere. Everybody's being "persecuted" for what they think. That whole "christians are victims" thing is a lie.
 
@Xaade I don't believe that free speech should be used whose only effect is negative.
not just subjective, pure negative
 
0
Q: Specializing a template for classses in a namespace

OlumideI'm using the following compile-time 'trick' (based on ADL) to create method that is only valid/defined/callable by classes in the same namespace. namespace Family1 { struct ModelA{}; struct ModelB{}; template<typename T> bool is_in_Family1(T const...

 
there are many free speech exceptions along these rules, and in the UK certain kinds of speech is a crime
libel, slander, just for example
 
In your case, speech is only free if it falls within guildlines of what you find to be acceptable speech. Then you have the problem of who controls acceptable speech. One day @DeadMG 's opinions are no longer acceptable either. And DeadMG is in jail for believing the sky is blue.
 
In my opinion, speech should be free as long as you don't spread lies and misinformation.
 
6:05 PM
@Xaade No, I have fairly objective criteria.
 
But identifying truth is a complex matter, so...
Yeah, it's not simple.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What counts as a lie?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's the whole problem.
 
and as I said twice now but you've never addressed, there are already plenty of legal exceptions along similar lines.
 
6:06 PM
@DeadMG No such thing. You can't have objective criteria for speech. You can only have subjective criteria.
@DeadMG I'm sorry, if you feel that way. We have nothing further to discuss.
 
And why do you care about free speech so much if the USA doesn't even respect Human Rights?
 
@DeadMG No, libel is not similar lines.
 
@rubenvb This as well. The US has far worse problems than free speech.
@Xaade It is exactly the same.
 
You're not harming God by saying God exists.
 
@rubenvb Good, so if they don't respect human rights, you don't have to care about free speech.
 
6:07 PM
no, you're harming the listener
 
but it's still harmful
 
@DeadMG that's not libel
 
I said similar lines, not identical ones
 
You can't quantify what harms the listener. That's subjective.
 
6:08 PM
@rubenvb Irrelevant in the current discussion.
 
belief in something which is known to be not true is harm.
 
@DeadMG Again, your idea is so fundamentally opposite of freedom, I can no longer converse with you.
 
@DeadMG not the belief, but forcing that belief on others who have no choice in the matter is.
 
@Xaade Freedom isn't some great, all-powerful thing. We restrict it every day.
 
@Xaade If I got a dollar for every time you said the word "freedom", I would be rich by now.
 
6:09 PM
You must drive on a certain side of the road. You must pay your taxes.
You can't go killing your neighbour for lols.
 
Thou shalt not kill and shit.
 
@rubenvb Speaking is not forcing.
 
Freedom is great, but there are real and serious limits to how far that goes.
@RMartinhoFernandes Teaching it to your kids, however, pretty much is.
the majority of children who are taught something like that by their parents cannot change their beliefs later in life.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If parents tell their children creation is the one true way, you have effectively indoctrinated them into never accepting science.
 
6:10 PM
hell, children are practically designed to unquestioningly absorb from their parents
 
exactly
 
I'm pretty sure that Scienceâ„¢ backs up my view.
 
Yeah, I recall seeing a study that says that people tend to subconsciously reject theories that clash with their beliefs.
 
@Dietmar: can you confirm or shoot down my my claim about you?
 
6:15 PM
"also questions the link between HIV and AIDS" <-- Wow
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's very common. but worse: people tend to interpret everything so that it fits preconceived idea. e.g., my doctor yesterday was sure i wanted help with a skin disease i had some years ago. he could not be dissuaded from this belief. i had to let him go on and suggest a treatment, and with only minutes to spare we finally got down to my real reason for the appointment.
 
@rubenvb There are also people who think that AIDS is a punishment from God.
 
@EtiennedeMartel let's teach that in school!
 
Man, I've been waiting in line at this blood drive for almost two hours now.
 
SE chat on mobile ftw!
 
6:23 PM
Actually, I brought my laptop. They have wi-fi.
 
oh, that's even better, linking answers on the mobile version sucks ass.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I just tried your example. It really works! How long have you been programming C++ and how can I become as good as you? Seriously.
 
The robot is just that badass.
 
the badass robot is badasss.
 
Captain Obvious is in the house.
 
6:27 PM
To become good at anything, study and practice. There's no secret.
 
user image
2
 
Not being an idiot helps.
 
@DeadMG Or that.
 
I've got my downloads folder grouped by date, and I had a tomorrow section?
 
Yeah but how long did it take you? I am studying the book and I its taking so long to get through. Sometimes I spend a month on a page. Specifically SFINAE. It took me months before I could understand the example in the book.
 
6:29 PM
I've been using C++ for ten months, but I've been programming for thirteen years or so.
 
@DeadMG I just noticed that this causes a time paradox.
 
well I've been working C++ for about three years now, and I am the Lawd and Master
 
@Olumide The problem with that is feedback and interpretation.
 
@DeadMG The Lawd?
 
6:29 PM
it's much faster to work with other people than to work from a book
 
@EtiennedeMartel Means "Lord of Bad Spellings".
 
if you screw up, the book can't tell you what you did wrong, and Martinho can
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh my lawd.
 
I tend to find a book and try to read it from cover to cover and then start programming.
 
and if the book doesn't tell you very clearly, you can't just ask the authors for another example
 
6:30 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes What did you use before C++?
 
I'm also trying to read various tutorials
 
@Pubby Pascal, C, C#, Haskell, and lots of minor dabblings in between.
 
I programmed a bit of C and before that some Visual Basic. I get C++ and like it but now I'm starting to realize that C++ is a very complex language and I understand why some people hate it. (I love it tho)
 
@Olumide Trust me, the fastest way to gain complex knowledge is by close interaction with a group of people who already have it
like us
 
Indeed, you rise to the level of your peers. Okay then. I'll start to frequent this chat room and pick your collective brains.
 
6:32 PM
@Olumide If you love C++, then you did not use it enough.
11
 
Or used it too much and your brain melted.
 
@EtiennedeMartel If you just edit that to say "If you love C++,..." then have a star
 
I did. My last project (my PhD thesis work) was about 70,000 lines of C++ code.
 
@DeadMG I'm such a star whore.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I use C++ and understand it somewhat (I dare not say well)
 
6:34 PM
70000 and you still like C++?
 
Only litb understands C++ well.
 
Yes. I enjoy pain :)
 
@CatPlusPlus litb only spouts arcane trivia
 
@Olumide Do some Java then.
 
Java is more boring than painful.
5
 
6:35 PM
Oh yes. Did that too. I used to be an eclipse developer before I started by PhD.
 
Generics not working with primitive types is ugh.
 
Oh, that reminds me, thoughts on Clojure?
 
@CatPlusPlus This is just a side effect of the fact that primitive types are second class citizens in the Java world.
 
It's a side effect of Java being nigh useless.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's not useless. Or rather, it wasn't back in 1995.
 
6:37 PM
It does have a plus of having nice toolbase, though.
 
Isn't everything a same-class citizen in Java? Like : public Object?
 
No, unboxed values are not objects.
 
@rubenvb Not primitives.
and that's such a terrifically bad idea anyway
 
Unlike in .NET, in Java, value types do not inherit from Object.
 
6:37 PM
Also, freaking checked exceptions.
 
I've heard that they're planning to remove those.
 
it'd be like everyone in Africa being a same-class citizen: the class of "starving and AIDs-infected"
 
I can't wait!
 
In my first year Physics, in our first programming course... ever, we had to simulate Mandelbrot with Java
 
In what, Java 10?
 
6:38 PM
@DeadMG Ow.
 
and it had to be zoomable
 
To celebrate year 3000?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Really? I thought they loved it.
Do you have a linky?
@CatPlusPlus Maybe they'll have lambdas by then!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Unfortunately, no. It's just something I heard. It's probably just a rumor.
 
The thing that puts me off about C++ is memory management
 
6:41 PM
what memory management?
I never manage any memory
 
All the heap and stuff
 
it's called std::unique_ptr
 
Heaps are cool for sorting things.
2
 
Time to go home. Bye everyone for showing me how little I know :)
 
@DeadMG Or std::shared_ptr.
 
6:42 PM
Wikipedia is blued out?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Technical issues, apparently
 
The only time when you need to manually manage memory is when you're doing interop with legacy code (generally written in C).
 
There's only 3 things I use in Dreamweaver.
-Code view
-FTP on save
-Automatically showing tabs for the linked files
 
Dreamweaver? You're doing Web stuff?
 
I really need to get a good book and read up on it
 
6:43 PM
Personnaly I used Eclipse back when I was doing PHP.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, I'm going to promote this PC repair company I set up a while ago and never advertised
 
like a baus
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd use N++ but I don't know whether that has the automagic linked file stuff
@DeadMG Hell yes. "I'm CEO, bitch."
Well managing director because it's the UK
 
some day
 
@KianMayne vim has.
 
6:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes vim has fucking everything.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I just wish it looked prettier
 
Prettier? What? A box with text on it?
 
Well, it needs lens flares and gradients, obviously.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah :L
It just feels old fashioned
 
6:51 PM
Hi :)
 
Why are there type traits that are also in <limits>?
 
Als
ola
oh this...
1
A: Accessing private members in a class

jisaakThe best way to do it: Write Getter / Setter functions and accept data hiding.

 
@rubenvb Which ones?
 
@EtiennedeMartel what does that means?
 
Xeo
6:54 PM
I'M BACK! HAIL ME!
 
Screw you.
That good?
 
Als
lulz
 
hey Als, what would been your solution for that?
 
Xeo
:(
 
@Als Sigh, I'm not continuing.
 
6:54 PM
lol
 
Als
@jisaak: friends
@Xeo: Sire, You suck.
Any Better?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes is_signed, is_integer
 
@rubenvb I don't think the standard requires them to be in <limits>.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes they're part of class numeric_limits
 
Als
@jisaak: Why do you think get, set methods are better than friend?
 
6:56 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Ah.... So use photoshop to do text editing.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: I know, there's been a serious bias towards poor keyword friend
 
> data hiding means that the members are private and using getter and setter doesnt violate this rule
Rofl.
Gotta love cargo cult.
 
@Als I dont't think that in general. The OP just said he doesnt want to change the private modifier
 
They repeat things like parrots, but so amusingly keep missing the point.
 
Xeo
Where did you read that crap?
 
6:57 PM
In that answer linked above
> Yes, it will leave a big wide window for everyone to access, but this doesnt breaks Encpasulation since the data is still hidden.
 
@rubenvb Oh, I see. Probably an artifact from the previous C++.
 
Als
@jisaak: Why does using friend need changing the access specifier?
 
Oh, they're here. Hello.
 
since friend has only access to protected members?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes also, everything should be constexpr imho, but hey... it was already 2011 :)
 
6:58 PM
friend gives access to everything.
 
Als
Kids have been brainwashed from early days to believe friendship breaks encapsulation.
 
@rubenvb It is constexpr.
It may not be in your implementation but it's supposed to be.
 
Als
@jisaak: friends are known to have access to each others private parts.
 
There were a lot of constexpr things missing, but there are accepted DRs addressing them already.
 
Als
I bet you will remember that now forever.
 
6:59 PM
@CatPlusPlus ...
 

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