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12:00 AM
6pm CST... missed 200 today. Need to get food. lol
Is it just me or is the site really slow today? Nothing good to answer...
 
Xeo
No softcap today for me too
Okay, maybe I just have a weird swapfile size and linking clang needs some 2.2ish gig memory so it stays at 50.0%..
 
Did anyone here softcap today?
 
Xeo
I don't think others in here actually care as much as we do xD
 
I'm just trying to get that badge. Afterwards, I don't care anymore...
lol
 
know what would be awesome? A C++ compiler with a spellchecker. error C4430: missing type specifier. Did you mean vector instead of vetcor?
 
12:10 AM
@Xeo Come to think of it. Yesterday was also a very slow day. It's just that both us hit jackpots early in the day, so we didn't notice.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Intellisense squiggles
 
hmm, how do I call swap with ADL in a container that has an unrelated swap member?
should I call std::swap?
 
Xeo
adl swap has 2 parameters, member swap 1
just
 
Error 24 error C2660: 'localvec<type,maxsize>::swap' : function does not take 2 arguments f:\code\utilities\mapish\mapish\localvec.h 213
 
Xeo
using std::swap;
swap(blah, blub);
 
12:15 AM
@Xeo what if the "right" swap isn't in std though? Do I give up on that?
 
Xeo
Huh? What I just posted is ADL-enabled swap
 
user406009
ADL really seems like a hack.
 
Xeo
the unqualified call to swap here will trigger ADL if needed
if there is no special swap, it will fall back on std::swap
 
@Xeo excellent, that's exactly what I wanted then
 
12:31 AM
I need to slow an audio file as if something was malfunctioning
Random question for this room but hey
 
@KianMayne In code?
 
No, in any way
 
Use audacity?
 
Xeo
@Mysticial, there's an interesting multi-threading optimization question again :)
And damn it. CPU usage <20% still, swap at 1gig still, and full 1.3gig real used
 
Will it let me stretch it dependantly like
 
12:41 AM
I remember one of my friends saw a poster and asked me: "What's a Minaj?"
 
110%-130%-170%-...1000% getting slower until the malfunctino edn
 
Xeo
Anyways, I'll go to sleep and just let it run over night.. g'night
 
That's not good: end of file found before the left angle-bracket '<' on this line of code: const unsigned mind = cursize<rhs.cursize?cursize:rhs.cursize;
 
12:57 AM
Used the Doppler Effect Plugin in Goldwave
 
@Xeo Linky?
 
1:29 AM
I know that OCIE0A=0001 in binary,
so would `(1<<OCIE0A)` just be 0010?
 
@mugetsu I've never seen OCIE0A before, and have no idea what it is
but yes, if OCIE0A is 1, the result of (1<<OCIE0A) should result in 2.
According to cs.mun.ca/~rod/Winter2007/4723/notes/timer0/timer0.html, it kinda looks like OCIE0A should be equal to 2. Are you sure it's 1? (I'm still looking, I don't know anything)
looking at it's usage it appears to be 1.
 
What is going on with VS20110?
 
@DzekTrek tell us in eighteen thousand years
 
It keeps sending some .vfe files to some remote servers constantly?
 
ah it seems like OCIE0A is not hex...
 
1:40 AM
Why then? Why not now?
 
its a RW flag, though im not sure what it is
 
@DzekTrek 2011 developer edition? Probably sending usage info so they can get the correct performance for the real release
 
RW flag?
 
yea someone on my SO question said its a RW flag and pointed to here cs.mun.ca/~rod/Winter2007/4723/notes/timer0/timer0.html
 
@mugetsu Timer/Counter Compare Match A interrupt is enabled when the OCIE0B is set and the matching flag bit is set.
 
1:41 AM
Yeah, but I checked my Wireshark, and not only usage info is being transferred to them then...
 
@DzekTrek read the EULA more carefully next time?
 
Sounds like something out of my embedded systems textbook... of course, I wouldn't remember the names exactly.
 
:( ...
 
@mugetsu TIMSK |= _BV(OCIE0A); // enable output compare a interrupt from avrfreaks.net/…;, it appears to be a bitmask
 
I have blocked the connection to them.
 
1:43 AM
@mugetsu but code.google.com/p/avrobdii/source/browse/trunk/code/time.c?r=2 does this: TIMSK0=TIMSK0 | (1<<OCIE0A); //Turn Timer0 compare A interrupt ON
 
yea i saw that google code too
 
People, how can I launch post-build events in Visual Studio?
 
I bet it's #defne _BV(x) (1<<x)
@DzekTrek rightclick project->properties->config properties->build events->post-build-event
 
Thank you Mooing Duck!
 
i see, thanks mooing
 
1:55 AM
@mugetsu I guessed a fuller explanation in your question.
which you never linked btw :D
alright, I'm out
 
2:41 AM
How to solve error C1014 in VS10?
 
3:13 AM
> The nesting of #include directives is too deep. Nested directives can include open files. The source file containing the directive counts as one file.
Dayum, that must be one hell of a codebase.
 
Yes.
 
user406009
3:33 AM
Found another rare benefit of Java over C++. You don't need to distribute both binary and source. The jar files themselves can easily be decompiled into quite readable source files.
 
Hi guys
Do you know how to call XML-RPC API in C++, More on stackoverflow.com/questions/8981728/c-xml-rpc-calling
 
4:18 AM
Hm, this question on pointers has only very poor answers :-(
 
I should be revising for my exam today
 
@DeadMG that makes the two of us. :(
 
and I also should not even be considering being up at 4:30am the morning before
 
it's 8:27am here.
I'll always be 4 hours ahead of you! lol.
 
your brain will always be 4 hours behind
 
4:29 AM
...I don't get it.
 
that's what I meant
 
damn. I just proved I'm an idiot. :(
7
why the f*ck did it have to be starred? now everyone will read my confession.
.....damn.
WTF it's 8 *C today! That's never happened it the history of Buraimi! Climate Change!!!
Guess for the first time since I came here, I'll have to buy a jacket. :(
 
owned
 
4:45 AM
damn. what's the use of living in a desert if you've got to wear jackets? I mean, it's a f*cking desert! Deserts don't have winters.
 
deserts are defined by dryness, not temperature range
Antarctica qualifies as a desert
 
I wonder what impact this will have on tourism.
people from Germany etc. usually come here for the winter.
 
where are you again?
Qatar or UAE, was it?
 
Oman, almost in the UAE.
My town's on the border.
> The town Al Buraymi is an oasis town in northeastern Oman, on the border of the United Arab Emirates. An adjacent city on the UAE's side of the border is Al Ain.
^ on the edge. kinda weird.
 
5:10 AM
many things are
by the way, I had an idea which sounds kind of stupid every time I say it but I can't stop seeing it
I wonder if concurrency and quantum physics are strongly related?
they're both non-deterministic and operate on finite, discrete quantities
 
Well, they both deal with atomic operations if that's what you mean
 
it's even called a "thread quanta"
 
I take it back. Yeah they're related.
 
after all
 
the "uncertainty principle" etc.
 
5:17 AM
quantum physics is often explained as having every possible scenario happen concurrently
therefore, logically, if one were to simulate a quantum scenario with a computer, you would be proving that quantum physics and concurrency are definitely strongly related
 
5:28 AM
posted on January 24, 2012 by Scott Meyers

I mentioned in my November announcement of an updated version of my C++11 training materials that I'd been made aware of a few places where my stuff wasn't fully in accord with the final standard.  In this most recent revision, I've addressed those issues.  To the best of my knowledge, everything in the materials now corresponds to the standard.  Achieving such conformance was

 
5:42 AM
@DeadMG I'm not sure whether people working on renormalization would agree with either of those descriptions...
 
I don't even know what that is
 
@KerrekSB thanks.
 
@DeadMG Only by quantumplusplus.com...
 
lol
 
@DeadMG In fact, your statement becomes more and more ludicrous the more I read it: Haven't the last four decades of fundamental physics been plagued first foremost by problem after problem after problem with infinities that don't cancel properly?
This is in fact, in a nutshell, the single greatest obstacle to obtaining a consistent universal theory of the world...
 
5:46 AM
finite as in
bah, that was a bad way of putting it
 
Maybe "discrete" is the correct term
 
why is this compiling?
 
@IntermediateHacker How would container code work otherwise? You would have to duplicate code with specializations.
 
@Pubby is this a language feature or something?
 
You could call it that.
 
6:04 AM
C++ is the weirdest language i know. o_O
 
I don't see how destructors for builtin types are weird
 
I was speaking generally.
c# generics are so straightforward.
 
C# generics look disappointing
Although I must admit they are much less weird
 
Hello. I once took a reference to a value returned by a function. Visual c++ compiler let me modify this reference to a temporary but gcc only let me use this reference if I said it is const(so i could not modify it). The value was a big structure and I thought my reference to it will be an optimization(instead of calling the copy operator). Where are this temporaries kept anyway? on the stack, no? why did gcc not let me modify it?
 
6:20 AM
@19021programmer lvalue references can't bind to rvalues.
 
@19021programmer It is not Standard. There are many pitfalls to modifying temporaries if you don't explicitly know they are temporary, so in the general case it is disallowed.
 
ah yes, i only modified it so i can pass it as value to a function myfunc(BigStructure) that means it makes a copy of BigStructure
 
What?
 
struct &BigStructure = someFunctRetBigStructure(); BigStructure.something = 2; myfunc(BigStructure);
myfunc takes value not ref
 
When you insert something into a map with m.emplace(a0, a1, a2, ...), is the mapped object mapped_type(a1, a2, ...) always created, or only if the key does not yet exist?
 
6:24 AM
the compiler can ellide the copy in most cases of someFunctRetBigStructure()
especially if the function is inlined
in reality, returning by value is not a significant performance detriment
 
it was a function from another module not inlined
 
being from another TU does not mean no inline
 
hey, thanks. in conlusion yes it was not a performance bottleneck. i might have inlined it if i wanted to, and it will be obvious.
 
6:48 AM
@DeadMG I think it does unless you're using link-time optimization.
 
7:38 AM
there are a million "jalf"s at twitter, I wonder which one is @jalf 's account.
 
8:05 AM
@jalfd, Copenhagen, Denmark
I write code! And stuff.
1.2k tweets, 99 followers, following 97 users
 
thanks.
I'm this person.
 
8:20 AM
@jaredpar haven't you heard? #stackoverflow hasn't been abt programming for a long time. It's about following the rituals set forth on Meta.
lol...
 
Hello
 
sbi
8:38 AM
Charles Stross' latest novel is coming true over on The Pirate Bay http://io9.com/5878633/
Oh.
 
Oh Hi
 
8:51 AM
does facebook store our passwords in plain text?
 
probably ¬_¬
 
but I like to think such an obvious target would be pretty good at keeping them protected
 
how would they be protected by being obvious?
 
I mean, as facebook is so high profile, I like to think they would take measures to secure your data
I'm not saying that passwords are secured just by being tempting to try to steal ¬_¬
 
8:55 AM
they implemented HTTPS connections last year, so that obviously took them a while
 
@John (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
I'm pretty sure they don't store passwords in plain text
a good rule of thumb is to check how their password recovery works. If they send you your actual password, they must have stored it in plain text (or some kind of reversible encryption, which isn't much better)
 
ah, but with out knowing other wise, you should assume the worse
 
@thecoshman r u japanese? awesome!
 
if they just let you reset the pass, it's probably because they don't have the plain text version
 
8:57 AM
they usually only allow you to reset the password.
 
But that is not to say that they don't still store your password as plain text
 
@thecoshman yes, but (1) they're a huge target, so the fact that they haven't been hacked yet indicates that they're at least halfway competent, and (2) they're pushing Facebook Connect as an authentication solution for third parties. That'd be a hard sell if they couldn't offer some kind of guarantees that they're at least reasonably safe
 
guess at least Facebook's safe then.
 
@IntermediateHacker I didn't say "safe". Just "not completely unprotected" ;)
 
@jalf both very good points, but I counter them both by pointing out that bigger companies have failed on the same squishy problem, human error. A simple oversight could leave data stupidly exposed. #devils_advocate
 
9:01 AM
@thecoshman absolutely. We can't know anything for sure. I'm just saying I'm pretty sure they put more effort into security than Joe Average's webshop
 
honestly, if you're worried about your data getting hacked, facebook isn't near the top of the list of sites I'd worry about. On the other hand, they're more than happy to intentionally divulge your personal information to third parties
 
AFAIK there is very little reason to store even the encrypted password. That can still get stolen and decrypted. Hashing serves the purpose of securing password and again AFAIK is a lot harder to work out the original password, and even then it is only 'guessing' the original
 
@TonyTheLion lol... can't stop laughing
 
@jalf this is true, the probably give away more information then you are aware of
 
9:03 AM
@thecoshman hmm, did I say otherwise? Just tring to figure out if that's a response to something I said, or a general statement of "security best practice"
 
> intentionally divulge your personal information to third parties
Isn't that what Google's famous for?
 
@jalf no you did not, did I say you did? It was just a general statement :P
 
@IntermediateHacker well there is probably some kind of competition between them
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion He's not grumpy, he's just weird.
 
@thecoshman ok, gotcha :)
 
9:05 AM
@TonyTheLion and he's not an Ape.
 
@IntermediateHacker yeah, but I feel Google are a lot more upfront about selling your data to offer an awesome range of services. Facebook seem to do it very underhand, the sneaky feckers :P
 
didn't mean to sound confrontational, it just seemed kind of unrelated to the rest of the discussion, so I was wondering if we just misunderstood each others
@thecoshman eh, yes, assuming you've already made up your mind in advance that Google are the good guys
They are exactly as underhand, whether or not you like their services
 
@jalf well, I do very much like what they offer me, but I am getting more and more worried about the power they seem to be exerting
 
Remember Google Buzz?
 
9:07 AM
@jalf exactly as underhand, but it fits their profile a lot better. Just don't do gmail on google :)
 
"hey, let's just tell everyone who your gmail contacts are, because that'll make our upstart facebook killer seem more popular"
"oh wait, you had contacts you didn't want the world to see? Well, that's too bad".
 
Google seem to have reached the point where they can buy out more or less any upstart that could pose a threat
 
GOOGLE is scary. O_O
 
especially when you consider they are based on a mistake :P
 
9:10 AM
but still, Google hired Jon Skeet, they are at least a little good.
 
@thecoshman a mistake? How do you mean?
 
@jalf Google rather then (than?) Googol
 
it's also interesting how Google were loudly opposed to SOPA, but didn't really do anything when oher major sites blacked out. Or that their "do no evil" motto apparently doesn't apply in China
 
not to mention their greed.
 
let's be honest. They're a corporation, no more, no less. They don't have ethics or morality. They're neither good or evil. They're just a corporation in pursuit of profits
@thecoshman well, an intentional error then. :)
 
9:13 AM
ok the google conspiracy is seriously scary.
 
@IntermediateHacker there's a google conspiracy?
 
@jalf IIRC they did actually want googol, but got it wrong :P
silly derps
 
googling "conspiracy" can be scary
 
@jalf you didn't watch the video? :(
 
@IntermediateHacker oh nah, at work. Trying to keep video-watching at a reasonable level. :)
 
9:15 AM
lol...
 
@thecoshman well, it was a brilliant mistake. Coming up with your own word with a good story behind it is a lot better PR than simply picking a word that already exists and saying "that's our name now"
makes life a lot easier for your trademark lawyers too, I guess
 
my future company name: JabberBlacky
 
@IntermediateHacker of course, it also works best if the name you come up with actually sounds like something that could have been a word in your language. ;)
Hoover, Lego, Google, to name a few. :)
 
@jalf oh it certainly turned out to be a brilliant mistake
 
and unlike Bing, one might add
 
9:18 AM
Bingo! => Bing!
?
 
Kinect is pretty decent too, I guess. Although it took some getting used to
 
Brace your self, the brand names are comming
 
@sbi lol
 
Apple's Siri means ass in Japanese
 
I hate companies who rip off other company's names for their company's names.
 
9:21 AM
gotta be careful how it sounds in other languages
 
Honda => Hyundai.
Sony => Sonai.
 
@kfmfe04 yup
 
KingFisher => QueenFisher (Damn Chinese Companies)
Toshiba => Tobisha.
 
persistent right should pain - must be the mouse 8^(
 
Hi Guys
 
9:35 AM
when I need a global state, what should I use - singleton or global variable?
 
@Abyx depends. Do you like inflicting harm on yourself?
 
but I really need global state
 
Always prefer the simple solution that satisfies your requirement. Do you need a hard guarantee that exactly one instance of the class will always exist? Then you might want a singleton. Otherwise, use something that provides what you need: an object storing global state == an global variable
(bonus hint: I don't believe the answer to my question can ever be "yes")
 
ah.. again different definitions of singleton. I don't think that singleton == private ctor.
 
@Abyx well, I think the "single" part is important. An object can't really be a *single*ton if it allows multiple instances, can it?
 
9:41 AM
how should I name a class Foo with static Foo& instance() method?
 
@Abyx In C++, I'd say don't. Put the static instance in a nonmember helper functino
 
for the most part, I think a global, well namespace global, object is better then a singleton
 
cleaner design, since then the class itself is just a class, with nothing static in it. And then a helper function outside the class provides access to a single global instance
 
signletons should be reserved for those rare case where class would fail or it simple wouldn't make sense to have more then one instance
 
but even if the you make a static instance method, don't name the class after it. The meat of the class is in the non-static part. It just has a small helper to provide access to a global instance as well
 
9:43 AM
@jalf why Foo_instance is better than Foo::instance() ?
 
@Abyx Because then Foo isn't in any way tied to the promise that "a static instance of the class exists"
and it can focus on being a Foo
 
factory classes are a good example of when singletons could be handy, but equally there might be times when you need more then one factory each keeping it's own set of spawned objects
 
separation of concerns
@thecoshman I can't see why you'd ever want to prevent multiple factories from existing
 
@jalf I can't see why you'd ever want to prevent multiple instance of any class from existing :P
 
@thecoshman me either. But then it's kind of stupid to explicitly make exceptions for it and say "you might want to use singletons for those situations"
when you don't think those situations actually exist
 
9:46 AM
Can anyone comment on this article "Efficient Use of Lambda Expressions and std::function" drdobbs.com/cpp/232500059
 
since people are going to interpret it as "those situations exist, that's why I'm telling you what you should do when you encounter them"
 
@jalf fair point
 
and then they'll try to find those situations
@user800454 um, what about it?
 
@user800454 this article is about Lambda Expressions and how to use the efficiently along with std::function
 
@jalf Just wondering how close these lambda expressions in C++11 are to the real think in Haskell?
 
9:48 AM
¬_¬ I un-installed tortoise git, now I want it back again
 
@user800454 um, they both attempt to implement the abstract concept from lambda calculus
 
@jalf I mean functional programming paradigm
 
@user800454 It strikes me as though the article is worrying about moot points. Copying of the functor object is going to be completely optimized away under the as-if rule (copies and assignments being elided all the way)
 
so they're very close in spirit. The actual implementation differs in that the Haskell ones live in a language designed basically for lambdas. The C++ ones have to coexist with an already very complex (and non-functional) language, so their syntax is messier, and when using them you have to consider a few more things
like how variables in your closure are captured
by value or by reference
and as always in C++ you have to consider ownership and object lifetime
 
The same goes for function objects in general, not just std::function<>: if the class has a trivial copy constructor, the operator() body is sufficiently simple, the whole of it will get inlined, resulting in the exact same code as for(i=0;i<size;i++) function(container[i]);
 
9:51 AM
hey guys
Any Unix wizards here?
Is there a way to make waitpid return after a fixed amount of time?
 
@jalf So is that a little like generic code and the templiate fiasco? (read: very complicated to writhe generic code in C++)
 
@user800454 I don't think you can consider templates a fiasco :)
 
Templates look more like an accidental discovery
 
and despite the complexity, C++ allows you to write code that is more generic than many other languages
but yeah, a bit like that
 
> <snark> puddle: to answer your question, I have concluded a great many things about the predictability and manipulability of large groups of likeminded people.
(that was a follow up to : http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/2441846#2441846)
 
9:54 AM
noble goals, and actually a pretty good attempt at it, all things considered, but much more complex than it would have been if it'd been designed in isolation in a new, clean language
 
Someone was trying to make writing generic data structures easier and then it sort of became a language within a language
btw is there a reason there's no way to modify variables from the closure in c++11 lambdas? I'm pretty sure you can pull that off in javascript
 
@sehe So the point is also it is hard to know exactly how the compiler will optimize since it up to the vendor? Optimizations are not part of the C++ standard.
 
[var1](){var1=2;} // Why can't I do this?
 
@GrigoryJavadyan you're capturing var1 by value
so it gets copied, so it makes no sense to modify it
use [&var1] instead
or simply [&]
 
Closure objects have a const-qualified operator() by default. You can change that with the mutable keyword: [var1] mutable { var1 = 2; }.
 
9:59 AM
hm, didn't know that
 
Since you are capturing by value however, that won't do much yeah. At least it compiles (probably... not sure about the grammar, might need some ()) :).
[var1]() mutable { var1 = 2; } is a valid lambda expression.
 
10:29 AM
Just need to say again, I really like AutoHot key!
hmmm... turn my virtual Ubuntu into a headless machine ¬_¬ and then just use putty... and then use terminator... then connect to work servers... :O genius!
 
the wonders of SSH
I bet no one's ever thought of that before
 
well, sadly, I can't install packages on the servers at work. well, I can, but they will just get reset soon enough ¬_¬ stupid re-installing servers all the time
hmm... perhaps I would have to play with it some more, but don't think I like the looks of headless virtual box
 
10:48 AM
Hey Gyz
would anybody be intersting in answering remote debugging with gdb for CPP cgi apps?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8984503/debuging-webapplication-using-gdb
 
sorry, out side my area of interests / expertise
 

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