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sbi
2:00 PM
@jalf "C++ requires a C++ compiler...." "It does?"
 
@TomalakGeretkal We're talking about programming, not running the resulting program. So yes, if you're going to program C++, then for all practical intents and purposes, you need a C++ compiler
 
@jalf: There's only one statement in your message that I could have been referring to.
 
I'm trying to say that if you want a way to teach the most in the least time, you have to throw out all those programming environments that require setups.
 
AFAIK C++ requires as much setup as Python.
Or maybe more.
 
@Xaade assuming that setup time is teh dominating factor
 
2:00 PM
@jalf I disagree. In fact, you've removed the one factor that might have led me to agree with you.
 
Then you're really left with PC based apps...
 
and that the students have to do this setup themselves
 
You can run python straight from the interpreter.
 
In order to just program C++ you don't need anything at all.
 
@TomalakGeretkal A text editor!
Or paper.
 
2:01 PM
@TomalakGeretkal note the "practical" bit. I'm aware you can write C++ code on a piece of paper
 
@jalf but all that setup distracts from class time.... then you have cases where a student can get it wrong....
 
Your brain will do.
 
Xeo
@TomalakGeretkal For compilation and linking however...
 
@jalf You haven't defined practical. If by practical you mean "in order to compile the code" then, yes, you need a compiler...
 
@Xaade How can it distract from class time if, for the sake of argument, it takes 1 hour to do, and you do it on teh first day of teh semester?
 
2:01 PM
@Xaade What setup are you talking about?
 
You can run a basic C++ compiler without installing it.
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal Nonono. Mine won't. I need to type the code and I need the compiler vomit into my face where I blew it.
 
Or what if you use your university's computers, where it is already set up?
 
The point is, C++ itself does not need to be compiled whatsoever.
 
@Xaade On Windows?
 
2:02 PM
@sbi pretty cool indeed, that heat map thingy
 
@jalf Yeah.... done that bit.... it's annoying and a waste of time.
 
Capiche?
and now, I'm heading home. Seeya
 
Out of all my classes, the quickest into learning the language was by far C++...
 
@Xaade i've seen a bunch of ppl with that Dev-C++ running straight from thier pendrives
 
You can run python from a pen drive too.
And you don't need to compile the code.
 
2:03 PM
PHP took a week for everyone to get everything working
 
You can run it as you type it.
 
MySQL also took a couple of days.
 
sbi
@hexa I've seen students do that, too. Their code was also on the pen, and they were wondering why compilation took so much longer for them...
 
doing any kind of web programming, took a while because you don't want to share one big server...
 
@Xaade Ever heard of XAMPP?
 
2:04 PM
Lisp had people confused just figuring out that it Jits and compiles.
 
That's what we used when we did PHP.
Ugh, bad memories are surfacing.
 
C++ programs are valid without compilation. Fact. Doesn't mean I'm trying to annoy you or that I'm pretending to be stupid: it means that you're wrong. Apparently that's a problem.
 
And C# turned out bad because a few people had a screwed up transaction log and couldn't get .NET installed.
 
All it took to get an Hello World program running was a couple of minutes for the download and another couple of minutes for the setup.
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal While that might be a fact, it's also useless for a student. I agree with @jalf.
 
2:05 PM
@sbi Who cares about students?
 
@TomalakGeretkal That's the same for any language.
 
(That was for Xaade.)
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal We, who we discuss teaching languages.
 
@Xaade I couldn't name one off-hand, but a hypothetical language exists that only has meaning when compiled into another form.
And even were that not the case, "that's the same for any language" doesn't change anything.
 
Well, it doesn't give C++ any advantage to say you can write C++ in notepad.
 
2:07 PM
Yea, flag my message but not jalf's. Ok.
 
@Xaade Guess what JavaScript has even less setup overhead.
 
the advantage is the fact that you can write C++ in notepad and compile it with a command line.
 
@Xaade Sure it does. I can demonstrate a computer program that will not be compiled and run by a computer, but shown to students.
 
@Tomalak: No language exists that only has meaning when compiled- how would the compiler compile something that's meaningless?
 
Fire up notepad, and your browser is probably already running.
 
2:07 PM
@DeadMG It would have to be some language whose semantics are partly defined by the compilation.
 
Type JavaScript in notepad, get output in browser.
 
@TomalakGeretkal can you tell some more about this?
 
Interestingly enough, come to think of it, C++ is almost that way with its implementation-defined elements.
 
@MartinhoFernandes The disadvantage being that Javascript isn't as verbose as C++.
 
@StackedCrooked Nah
 
2:08 PM
@Tomalak pulls shit out of thin air....
 
@Xaade Excuse me?
 
@Xaade Eeeuw
 
@Tomalak: That's not meaningless, that's just context-sensitive
 
Then doesn't bother reading what other people are saying.
 
@DeadMG What's "that"?
@Xaade What the hell are you on about? I've replied to everything. What is this personal vendetta you're on? What did I "pull out of thin air"? I am happy to address your concerns if you actually specify them.
 
sbi
2:09 PM
@TomalakGeretkal You know, when everyone appears to be driving the wrong way, it's time to check your own direction.
6
 
@Tomalak: Jeez, it might possibly be related to the thing you said in reply to the thing I said to you
 
3 mins ago, by Tomalak Geret'kal
@Xaade I couldn't name one off-hand, but a hypothetical language exists that only has meaning when compiled into another form.
 
rofl, oh the drama
 
2 mins ago, by StackedCrooked
@TomalakGeretkal can you tell some more about this?
 
@DeadMG :) I'm not sure enough to respond yet
 
2:10 PM
@sbi I don't want to be part of this ridiculous fight. I guess I'll just go back to work.
 
ok, found it
@MartinhoFernandes There's no fight. What's your obsession with "fights"? It's a discussion. Sometimes discussions get heated. Deal with it...
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Sorry, clicked on the wrong link. Already fixed.
 
@DeadMG True enough.
 
ok
 
@DeadMG: I would suggest that the meaning is incomplete.
 
2:11 PM
I think I'm just gonna ignore @Tomalak, and I recommend most of you do the same
3
 
Is that even possible @DeadMG?
 
@DeadMG Mature. What is your problem?
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal No, that's the wrong way. If we should be leaving because you enjoy a "heated discussion", then you are the one who has to deal with the fact that we don't want that.
 
why yes, it is, just click the portrait and it gives you a nice option
 
@DeadMG I have now responded directly to what you said and even compromised on it! I don't think an appropriate response is to publicly recommend that everybody ignores me.
 
2:12 PM
context sensitive languages... where the nuclear syntax has no meaning unless coupled with other syntax, and then not until compiled.
 
@sbi Who said anyone should be leaving?
 
I know what you're talking about.... I just don't know if you know what you're talking about.
To give a vaguely similar example in C++.... the keyword auto.
 
he left
 
she right
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal You. At least, that's the effect if you say "deal with it" when people say they're leaving because of you.
 
2:14 PM
well indeed that was kind of heated
 
Here's the thing.... there's something about how @Tomalak says things that just doesn't seem right. I can't put my finger on it. I can't say that he's ignorant, or elitist....
 
sbi
@hexa Well, maybe not all that voluntarily. At least I had flagged him for moderation.
 
@Xaade He's being aggressive.
 
But, it always strikes me as..... "That's not exactly how you should be taking this...."
It's hard for me to point that out to him.... because it's rather.... difficult to pinpoint what he's doing "wrong".
But the result always wants to make me just leave the room until he's not here....
 
He keeps assuming everything you say is meant in a general context.
 
2:16 PM
Just say he is the god of code and he is always right and he is better then you.
 
Even if you have established a fairly specific context beforehand.
 
he never gets what you're saying, even if the meaning is perfectly clear
and always interprets it in the worst possible way
 
It's hard for me to list concrete reasons I believe C++ is a good language to teach in, and why it appears to be better than others...
 
@Xaade: You seem to have a general problem with being specific sometimes :P
 
I have a VERY hard time communicating.
Because, I don't think in words....
 
2:18 PM
its funny how i'm like 2 weeks into the site and i already had a row with tomalak on a question
 
I think in image models.
 
and now everyone here doesnt like him
 
sbi
@Xaade That's what's called an "emotional decision". Perfectly fine in many situations. Just don't try to rationally explain it.
 
sbi
@hexa That's not true. I like @Tomalak. That doesn't mean we can't have a row, or I wouldn't flag him if he was rude, though.
 
2:21 PM
I didn't have a problem with Tomalak
now he's come into the chat, on the other hand, I find myself at odds with him nearly every time
 
@sbi Good. For a moment there, I thought you wanted me to get into the "heated discussion".
That was confusing.
 
Meh, I didn't feel it was that heated.
 
Whatever.
 
sbi
@DeadMG To be frank, I don't find this all that surprising. You two seem quite "incompatible". :)
 
lol
well, in my experience, it's just so damn hard to get the guy to carry a normal conversation
he never gets the context of anything right and he'll always become hostile if it's wrong
 
2:22 PM
That's it... right there.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes I realized my fault immediately after I saw that my message referred to you, but with the messages pouring in so quickly it took a while to find the one I actually wanted to respond to and fix my error. Sorry for that.
 
It's as if you have to keep bringing up the whole conversation every post so that he doesn't negate what you say with.... well that's not established.
 
No harm done.
 
maybe he's really a perfectly nice guy if you talk to him directly or something
 
or when he is not on his period
 
sbi
2:24 PM
@DeadMG You know, even you might be a nice chap when talking to you directly! :b
 
ooooooh
owch
 
Everyone here has gotten on my nerves occasionally, but I've always counted that as part of the ebb and flow of conversing with others.
However, when everything said is so grating.... I'm not really accomplishing much by participating
 
sbi
@DeadMG Hey, that was a joke!
 
@Xaade Sometimes it's hard to convey tone in written words.
 
@Xaade In a poetic mood, are we? :)
 
2:26 PM
@kbok An untyped language? (Not dynamically typed, untyped like ASM, the types are carried by the operators)
 
@StackedCrooked Poetic discourse.
I like that.... has potential.
 
LISP is untyped as well, isn't it?
 
@MartinhoFernandes it's dynamically typed
 
@AProgrammer from what I have read in wikipedia everything is an integer
So it should be typed
 
@sbi: So you say, so you say
 
2:28 PM
I don't really know much about B
 
Ok, what does untyped mean?
And I'm not expecting "It means it has no types" as an answer.
I can come up with that myself.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Lisp is dynamically typed, the types are carried by the values.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I know about static/dynamic and strong/weak typing. The only language I know that qualifies as untyped would be Tcl, I think.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Well, if you don't want to hear the corretc answer, what else can we do for you?
 
static typing = type checking occurs at compile time
dynamic typing = type checking occurs at run-time
that's the definition I hold
 
2:31 PM
There is type-checking in LISP?
Isn't everything a list anyways?
 
a list of what?
 
Of atoms or lists.
Hmm.
 
Of lists.
 
@MartinhoFernandes The list is a major datatype, but I don't think you can say that "everything is a list" in lisp
 
I just realized that.
There are atoms as well.
 
2:33 PM
@kbok Everything is a bit pattern, the way the bit pattern is interpreted depends on the way it is used. Integers are just a convenient way to specify and display bit patterns.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Seriously, though. We all fuck up sometimes. We've had pretty heated discussions here before. Anyone remembers Alf going over the top? He's still a decent chap to talk to usually. And so is Tomalak at other times. Heck, you and me were cross before. So? We still can carry on having useful discussions and fun with each other. I'd miss you if you would leave. And Tomalak has a nice kind of humor which I'd miss, too.
You guys need to come down from condemning others because of a row or two. IME it usually takes two parties to get into a row, and only one of them hitting the brake is enough to get out of it.
Don't get worked up when someone annoys you. Don't immediately react. Stay calm and say what you think calmly. Wait some time before you answer. Try not to shoot back. I flagged Tomalak because he seemed to need some time to cool off, not because he got me angry. (And I did disagree with him as much as most others here.)
 
@sbi: I know- that's what I think is different about Tomalak
he's only been coming here, what, a week? and I haven't had a single good conversation
 
@StackedCrooked TCL has some untyped aspect and some dynamic aspect. BCPL, BLISS and most assembly languages are untyped: there is no checks at all.
 
ok, you and I have been at odds before, but that's a vast minority in the relatively long time I've been here
with Tomalak, it's virtually the entirety of the time he's been here
 
@MartinhoFernandes some lisps have vector and hash tables as well. Lisp is dynamically typed.
 
sbi
2:37 PM
@DeadMG There's many here I hadn't had a single conversation here. So? As long as some of us sometimes enjoy to talk to them, who am I to personally demand good conversation from everybody?
 
that's perfectly true
 
sbi
@DeadMG I hear a "but..."
 
but again, I think you're missing the point of scale here, which is that as far as I can tell, it's the majority of us that don't enjoy his company, not just one or two
besides, I personally have chosen to live and let live by ignoring him- I'm not going to vote for him to be banned from here or anything like that, if that's even possible
I'm not going to interrupt whatever you can derive from his company by the fact that I can't get anything from it
 
sbi
@DeadMG I doubt that. For starters, there can't be a majority in this room unless I participate. :) But also, I have others enjoying chatting with him.
I've always felt bad for the monkeys that didn't write Shakespeare but wrote something much better but nobody noticed. #infinitemonkies
5
 
Is it age or grumpiness that gets you votes? :)
 
sbi
2:40 PM
@Ólafur, that's wonderful!
@MartinhoFernandes Look closely at my avatar. Look into my eyes. Do you really want to find out?
 
replace "nobody noticed" with "nobody upvoted"
 
@sbi: I haven't observed that, but that's just me
 
sbi
@DeadMG You haven't observed what? (When oh when will you start to properly reference messages?)
 
anyone except you getting on with him
 
@DeadMG If you're talking about enjoying a chat with Tomalak, I've done that at least twice before.
 
2:43 PM
@sbi: If I ping you in a message, it's a safe bet that it's in response to whatever you just said to me, it's not like I'm carrying on more than one conversation here
 
sbi
@DeadMG Huh?
 
I also had to steer clear from argumentative grounds some other times, but that doesn't invalidate the rest.
 
@sbi never mind :P
 
Xeo
3:12 PM
Just found this goodie in MSVC's mlock.c:
    /*
     * leave the critical section.
     */
    LeaveCriticalSection( _locktable[locknum].lock );
Useless comments ftl.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Automatic documentation generation fail? :D
 
Yeah. That search used to yield lots more results a few years back, though.
It's the documentation for the ToString() method.
Which the doc generator decided was the verb "to to" applied to the object "string".
And no one cared about it.
Which explains why the rest of the documentation in those codebases also makes no sense.
You can easily find pearls like "Sets the extra" and "Gets the size of the compressed".
 
documentation != decoration
 
I don't understand how anyone could find an automated doc generator useful.
If it's simple enough that a tool can generate appropriate documentation, then documenting that is worthless.
 
3:26 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Indeed.
 
@sbi thank you.
 
That's why I think that some people confuse documentation with decoration.
 
sbi
@balpha: What do you want from us?! :)
 
sbi
@balpha Can you put that into words? I think the blue number might be flags, yes? And the orange one?
 
3:39 PM
mod flags
 
sbi
@balpha Ah, so Tomalak left on his own then. Fine. I think he somewhat got into a temper, and started to insult the rest of the room, and people then got a little heated about it... You know how those things go, don't you? :)
 
yeah, you C++ are a wild bunch...
ducks
 
@balpha Yeah, but you need to know how to push our buttons.
 
well, I know @sbi has strong opinions on tabs vs. spaces :)
 
sbi
@balpha You know, we always get annoyed by the dozens of flags a day from that...durn! Is it the Android room? So we have eight flags once, and you dare to come here and waggle your finger at us?
@balpha Huh?
 
3:43 PM
@balpha pro tip: mention singletons
 
@StackedCrooked That will probably get the entire room against him, not just @sbi.
 
@sbi I vaguely recall a discussion in a russian cocktail bar in Berlin...
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Naw, that won't work, we all know they are the works of the devil.
@balpha I have never been in a Russian cocktail bar! At least not sober.
 
C++ room consists of a bunch of singletons arguing against singletons :)
 
Ugh, someone using those "entire-function-body-try thingies".
1
Q: Some Question regarding Exception handling.

Mr.AnubisPlease have a look at demo code : class myError { const char* str; public: myError():str(NULL) {} myError(const char* temp) { str = temp; } const char* what() { return str; } }; class ab { int x; public: ab() try :x(0) { t...

 
3:47 PM
the guy that answered, his profile says he is 62
 
Xeo
@sbi I think it was the PHP room
 
@hexa You mean James Kanze?
 
@hexa You do know that humans can live long past that, don't you?
 
my dad's age.... my dad know ASM and C. but he codes so badly in C and when i said i was learning C++ he started swearing at me.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes But 62 in hex is 98 in dec!
 
sbi
3:49 PM
@StackedCrooked He could well be that old. He'd been an old fart in c.l.c++.m when I arrived there in the nineties. But very up on his toes.
@balpha Hey, that's @Konrad!
 
@sbi Yeah, I remember his name.
 
Why did someone flag that photo?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes "Flag this message as spam, inappropriate, or offensive" Seems clear to me.
 
Xeo
@sbi You know, I like swimming against the (main)stream. :)
@balpha Disclosure of private user data! zomg :O
 
sbi
@Xeo Yeah, but contrary to driving, swimming against the stream isn't as dangerous to you and others.
 
3:52 PM
don't worry, I'll delete the image :) just wanted to prove my point
 
sbi
@Xeo I'm starting to get used to this.
 
It's just like, i tend to think that ppl that are 50+ and code are just like my dad. Having all their vars global and at tops 3 functions not including main()
 
@Xeo People can also live past that.
 
sbi
@balpha There's a couple of guys sitting at a table somewhere. How in the world is that proving anything?
@hexa Not James.
 
@sbi yeah, i was reading his answers and stuff. he seems well versed in the ways
 
3:58 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong: if an exception is thrown while another is in the process of being thrown, terminate() gets called right?
 
vaguely yes
 
didn't fred start a question on this yesterday
 
No, my question was specifically not about that.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Um, not exactly. If an exception is thrown while another one has already been thrown and isn't caught yet and its catch clause is not finished, then std::terminate() gets called. Or so I believe, anyway.
 
> This does not answer the question. "If there is already an active exception": but there is not! And delete[] p in normal code (that is, outside of a destructor) has nothing to do with stack unwinding. – FredOverflow yesterday
 
sbi
4:01 PM
"in the process of being thrown" is a bit ambiguous. If you say throw f(); and f() throws, std::terminate() will not be called.
 
Because there was no process of being thrown :)
 
Ok, specifically, when the stack is unwinding and a destructor throws (I know it's evil, I'm not doing it).
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Yep, that captures it much better than I did. Sorry.
 
That's still too vague. Replace "a destructor" with "the destructor of an object participating in stack unwinding".
 
@hexa James has his quirks, but (for whatever my opinion may be worth) I think he's one of the better coders around. Being fair, I should probably also add that he's one of the few participants I've actually met in person, and find him quite likable personally as well though, which could affect my perception of his coding.
 
sbi
4:03 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh! How have you met James?
 
How early do you think students should be introduced to Design Patterns? Our university starts at the second semester, which I find a bit too early.
 
@JerryCoffin cool!
 
@FredOverflow Here is never.
Ok, not never. But not until you go for a Master's degree.
 
@Martinho: Same here- never.
 
@sbi I was in Brussels on business, and he lived just outside Paris (and used to have full contact info in the footer of his posts) so I contacted him, and we met in Paris. Had rather an enjoyable afternoon drinking wine, enjoying the weather, and chatting.
 
sbi
4:06 PM
@JerryCoffin That sounds like you had a great time!
 
Did you go to the top of the Eiffel tour and kiss? :)
 
lol @FredOverflow
 
lol
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Whom?
 
The first girl that comes around, no matter how ugly!
 
4:07 PM
@FredOverflow 'fraid not. I've gone up the Eiffel tour and kissed, but it was with a girlfriend of the time, not a 60 year old man... :-)
 
Of course you would say that...
 
@sbi Yeah -- the weather in Paris is nice, and one of the shortcomings of Usenet is lack of any chat.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin ...which SO just fixed.
 
no chat = more time
chat is a blessing and a curse
 
@hexa FYI, James was already a member of the committee during the C++98 normalization.
 
4:10 PM
James is a member of the Committee?
 
sbi
@DeadMG I remember he once said he was a, um, technical counsel?
 
Yes (but I don't know how active he is now. He hinted once that he was doing that work as part of its job and as a consultant he switches between contract more often than employees)
 
I want to be on the Committee :P
actually, I probably don't, I'd break way too much existing code
 
Please don't let him.
 
@DeadMG You'd probably have a hard time doing that. The committee only considers something a decision when they reach consensus, and getting them to all agree on breaking code is never easy, even in cases where it's really needed.
 
sbi
4:14 PM
@DeadMG That's no problem. I think basically anyone can attend. Now, having voting rights...
 
@DeadMG Ask your national body.
 
lol
 
@sbi You have to pay several hundred dollars to become a member, and starting from the third meeting, you can vote.
 
@DeadMG "The committee" is a bit deceiving. Each national body has its own committee, then there's an ISO committee that's made up of representatives elected by the national bodies.
 
@sbi There are two kinds of vote. Votes during meetings is more or less one person one vote. More formal vote are per national body.
 
4:18 PM
National bodies are supposed to solicit public input, but each does so in its own way. Just for example, the UK has a permanent, semi-formal committee of public advisors. The US publishes a minimum of two drafts for public comment.
 
@JerryCoffin I got the impression that at ISO meetings are present those who can attend with an official Head of delegation to give the formal vote their NB opinion. (but it can be that this policy is also a NB policy)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Ugh. So when Alsidair invited me to the Berlin meeting several years ago ("sure, anyone can come!", but I had to work), he was just being friendly?
 
@AProgrammer I think that's fairly accurate, except that 1) the ISO rep isn't necessarily the "head" of the national committee, and 2) there are a few positions on the ISO committee that are separate from NB reps as well -- e.g., Herb Sutter is the current convener, and Peter Becker is the secretary.
 
sbi
I'm sorry, but I can't help this, I just have to post it:
 
lol omg
 
4:22 PM
Hey! NSFW.
 
sbi
Innit absolutely ridiculous? :)
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, you're in the C++ chat room. What did you expect? (Besides, I'm at work.)
 
@sbi It takes a real man to put his name down as author of a book like that!
 
I personally think that the idea of NSFW is quite ridiculous
either you're working and shouldn't be here at all, or you're not working and it's none of the company's business what you choose to look at
 
@sbi @sbi talking about sex is one thing. A picture with "Sex Toys" in huge letters is very noticeable. I don't mind it, but it's not about me :(
 
sbi
@DeadMG That says you, who doesn't work, but procrastinates all day!
 
4:23 PM
@DeadMG I agree with you but my US employer don't.
 
heh heh
procrastinate would imply that I actually have something to do
4
 
@DeadMG Strangely, many companies have this strange idea that when you're at work, you should be working.
 
which I do, I guess, but nothing that could be qualified as work
@JerryCoffin: Sure, but it quite goes against that to be in here in the first place
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin And how does that excuse making a difference between sex and other topics?
@MartinhoFernandes I'm sorry. It's 6:30pm anyway, and we should all go home. :b
 
@sbi, it seems that anything about sex is offensive for someone.
 
4:25 PM
@DeadMG I only come here while my code is compiling :P
 
lol
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Well, fuck 'em! :P
 
@sbi At least in the US, they don't seem to feel any need for an excuse to do that. They differentiate sex from (almost) everything else virtually all the time, whether there's any excuse or not.
@sbi ...or 10:30 AM, but I'm at home, but working anyway (honest -- I'm running some really slow SQL queries...)
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yeah, don't I know that.
 
@sbi Damn you Central Europeans. I still have one hour left :(
 
sbi
4:27 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh right! I completely forgot that not all of you live in my TZ! :D
 
@sbi Yes, I'm sure that's never occurred to anybody. OTOH, knowing actual people in a particular timezone gives a much better excuse to decide that the drinking light just turned on, so it's all good. :-)
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Oh c'mon! What did you do when I got up this morning at 6:15 CEST?
 
@sbi I was up at that time.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Still?
 
No. Already.
 
sbi
4:30 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Now you're just showing off! Why would you be awake at 5:15am?
 
@Martinho was already. I was still.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Actually, I can't parse that. (Unless you're trying to say that with chat room users from all over the world it's beer'o'clock somewhere anytime of the day, that is.)
 
@JerryCoffin Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say. I think you're trying to point some mistake in my use of English, but I can't tell what.
Oh wait, you're not talking to me.
You're just mentioning me.
Duh.
 
@sbi That's pretty much the idea, yes. Except, of course, I prefer wine, not beer.
@MartinhoFernandes Nope -- nothing wrong with your use of English at all. Just saying that in your case it was getting up early, and in mine staying up late.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I like either at different times. :)
 
4:34 PM
@sbi I'm serious. Today I didn't log in to this chat, but you can see from my activity that I usually do show up sometime between 5-6 am.
And when I go to bed at ~20pm, sometimes I wake up earlier.
 
@sbi Yeah -- I really can't stand beer at all. Makes me rather sad, really -- when you see somebody who likes beer have their first sip on (for example) a hot afternoon, it looks like they're enjoying it quite a bit more than I probably enjoy anything I drink.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Wow. So you go to bed early and get up early, too? Never understood why people like that. :)
 
@sbi, I though you had children.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah, we do! Actually, I can relate to that, since there's some food I simply can't eat. Like tomatoes. That one must be on the Y chromosome, because none of my boys can stand them. But when I see my daughters delight in eating them, it makes me very jealous.
@AProgrammer So? If you had to like to get up early in order to have kids, this would be an empty planet.
 
@sbi: There will likely be foods that you can eat that they can't
I personally don't eat a lot of foods
notably most meat products
 
4:40 PM
@sbi Not to have them, to keep up with them when you have them.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Not my girls. They seem to be able to digest just about anything. :)
 
lol
digesting and enjoying are two different things
 
sbi
@AProgrammer I never had a kid that had trouble keeping me up when it really wanted to. :-x
 
whilst of course, you can't enjoy something you can't digest, as I would know by now
 
You can't digest water.
 
4:41 PM
@DeadMG Well, you can enjoy it -- just not for very long!
 
likes being a smartass
 
lol
and I will spend an awful lot longer in the bathroom begging to throw up
 
sbi
@DeadMG "foods that you can eat that they can't"
 
@StackedCrooked Speaking of which, did anybody see the episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit, where they were getting people to sign a petition to get "dihydrogen oxide" illegalized? The show went downhill later, but that one was pretty hilarious.
 
@JerryCoffin I did read about it.
 
4:43 PM
that one is quite famous
 
@JerryCoffin That one is a classic.
 
I heard it as Dihydrogen Monoxide, aka DHMO, which sounds much scarier.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Could easily be -- I'm going from memory.
 
There's an "official" website: dhmo.org
 
@MartinhoFernandes Oh my -- I'd never seen it, but that's great!
 
sbi
4:48 PM
@MartinhoFernandes bathsheba.com/math/klein
 
I feel like giving Opera a try again, like I do every two or three years.
Lol, first fail: freshy downloaded Opera tells me I need to update
 
@StackedCrooked My experience is that it sucks.
I feel bad for convincing some of my friends to use it some years ago.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, so is mine. But I want to see if anything changed.
 
To go with that.
And it's "Microwave safe, batteries not required, Y2K compliant."
> You can convert your Acme Klein Bottle into an astonishing amount of energy, over 10^23 ergs! Enough to power a small city for years. To get you started, we'll supply the necessary equation for free.
 

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