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6:03 PM
@mavili Welcome to the underground :D
@mavili "hacking" is not bad as you think :p
 
@HamZaDzCyberDeV morning, you talking alone?
 
@kaᵠ Hello man, apparently yes hahhaha
@kaᵠ stackoverflow.com/q/16175944/1401975 to know the context lol
 

@HamZaDzCyberDeV not sure that's what he wants, btw have you seen the bitwise ops ^^ ?
 
I'm reading on it now !
@kaᵠ Gotta give you a bounty for this maaan
 
lol :)
 
6:16 PM
night
 
hn @NullPointer
 
6:31 PM
hello
 
yellow
 
wow, on a row
 
There should be a second mini-chat on the right where you can post all your close and delete votes which then won't spam the chat any more :|
 
6:39 PM
@bwoebi close your eyes ;-)
 
@NullPointer lol
 
this drags more attention
 
On a programming site I expect at least a chat filter you can program yourself!
 
6:41 PM
@Jocelyn I'm unable to. I have to sleep even with open eyes.
 
@kaᵠ i had to google MONOLITHIC lol
 
@Baba nice, lol
 
wow, joce. did you just blow all of your close votes for today in one go?
 
@Hiroto There are 22 over.
 
6:45 PM
Anybody in here understands javascript?
 
Ask, we'll see if somebody understands it
 
@PeeHaa埽 you're in the wrong room, please check out the designated javascript room :P
so, you like it @Baba ?
 
So do you understand javascript? Or more specifically javascript's prototypal inheritance flow? @bwoebi
@kaᵠ :D
 
@kaᵠ makes me hungry :)
@Ihsan thanks
 
@Baba hungry for more
@PeeHaa埽 not so much
 
6:48 PM
@PeeHaa埽 hello, how about just asking the question? :)
 
@PeeHaa埽 Partially...
 
Suddenly a wild @KamilTomšík appears
:)
 
he does :)
 
is there any room for C language?
 
@SudoReboot cLounge
 
6:49 PM
@SudoReboot I guess its called /dev/null :)
 
@kaᵠ Baah. EVERY PHP coder is supposed to understand javascript. Even when he doesn't understand everything.
 
k..thnks
 
@KamilTomšík Nooo, there I don't have replies. /dev/zero is better.
 
@SudoReboot what/why do you need to write in C?
 
@bwoebi i know some jabbascript if that helps :P
 
6:50 PM
actually i got a project on kd trees in C and i cant understand the code
 
@bwoebi so , are you trying to tell us that you "understand javascript" ?
 
so i need help in it
 
Let's say I have an object function RandomPatternGenerator() { }. And let's say I want to add some optional functionality to that object. I.e. validate(). Does it make sense to optionally include a file with RandomPatternGenerator.validate() to add extra functionality to the object?
And yes I suck at explaining this I don't understand :P
 
@tereško No. I don't understand everything. I understand some JS.
 
@SudoReboot C is not a good language for "projects"
 
6:51 PM
@kaᵠ Note: using anything other than the english letters will produce garbage results
 
i kinda suspect that you would not understand any of mine ... unless you are extremely good at closures
 
@Baba bad wording?
 
@tereško show us your javascript! :)
 
@KamilTomšík I know but i have to do it in C as required by my "institution"
 
@kaᵠ that made me laugh :)
 
6:53 PM
@Baba ohh well... sounds a bit funny but calculated a lot of stuff and tested even more, didn't feel like rewording, but.. if you have a suggestion... ?
 
@KamilTomšík +1
 
no, javascript is a self-learning language. we are teaching it far too much. soon, we will be swamped when javascript starts unleashing wave after wave of buggy AJAX webapps upon the inter- ...hang on... waaaaait a minute...
 
cat /dev/urandom >>chat

I like garbage.
 
btw: anyone here saw some talks by Rich Hickey? if not I can recommend doing so :)
 
@kaᵠ I tried var_dump("বো" ^ " "); :)
 
6:55 PM
i still cant find a room for C language
 
@Baba you wanna try ord(X^Y), but.. garbage yes?
 
@KamilTomšík yes. they're quite thought-provoking indeed.
 
@kaᵠ yes have seen similar trick see stackoverflow.com/a/7475502/1226894
 
@igorw then you might also like 4clojure.com (puzzle site, you can "follow" and see solutions by other people once you've registered and already solved each one)
 
@KamilTomšík yeah, I've been doing some of those exercises, actually.
 
6:58 PM
@Baba that's what it started from... you can XOR to invert, but what about always returning uppercase, or lowercase without a function call... therefor... my answer
 
@igorw a lot of fun :)
 
@KamilTomšík it makes me realize how much I suck at math and recursion.
 
@kaᵠ How can use use it bitwise to get Longest Command Subsequence
 
@igorw recursion is simple but it sux
@Baba what do you mean? example?
 
Hi.
 
7:11 PM
hi @Ihsan
 
$S1 = "abcdefghijk";
$S2 = "ijklmnop";
Imagine those 2 string
 
ok..
 
the LCS would be ijk
The longest common subsequence (LCS) problem is to find the longest subsequence common to all sequences in a set of sequences (often just two). Note that subsequence is different from a substring, see substring vs. subsequence. It is a classic computer science problem, the basis of file comparison programs such as diff, and has applications in bioinformatics. Complexity For the general case of an arbitrary number of input sequences, the problem is NP-hard. When the number of sequences is constant, the problem is solvable in polynomial time by dynamic programming (see Solution below). ...
 
not sure if doable with bitwise alone
 
7:12 PM
@kaᵠ recursion is hard to understand, even harder to understand why it doesn't "suck" (as you so eloquently put it), and a lot harder to effectively apply.
 
@kaᵠ I sure you have to combine with loop
 
@Hiroto I used all my close-votes hours ago...
 
@igorw to understand recursion look at the PHP acronym: PHP Hypertext Procesor Hypertext Procesor Hypertext Procesor Hypertext Procesor Hypertext Procesor ...
 
@kaᵠ I understand what recursion is. I struggle with applying it to solve a problem in a language that doesn't have imperative loops.
 
7:14 PM
@Baba This is required for genetic correlations in bioinformatics.
 
@Baba lol AGAGCGATTAGA example, and a lot of those questions on SO :))
 
see also: the link that @KamilTomšík provided earlier.
 
@igorw i'm on projecteuler instead
 
7:15 PM
@igorw hmmm, interesting :) I've realized how much recursion sucks :)
@igorw anyway, if youre interested in recursion, I can recommend reading little schemer, awesome book!
 
@kaᵠ fair enough :)
 
@kaᵠ lol
 
@KamilTomšík I have, and I have recommended it to many people.
 
@Baba you on bio too?
 
7:16 PM
15
Q: Burninate mysql-error-1064

JNKThis is discussed a little bit here as well. The tag mysql-error-1064 is on almost 1000 questions at this point. It is also useless. The error code in question is about the most generic error you can get - "There is an error in your syntax"! If you need help, searching using this tag is usele...

if you want to help...
 
sure
 
@Ihsan Not sure about that ...... but very similar
 
@igorw the greatest 2 things I've realized from clojure are:
1. lazy collections (implementing common interface) over haskell lazy-evaluation
2. set operations over recursion
 
@Ihsan there are more traits to consider in Genetic correlation
@kaᵠ you mean Bioinformatics ?
 
@KamilTomšík I'll keep that in mind, especially #2 - maybe it will click for me too. :)
thanks
 
7:18 PM
@igorw with recursion you don't need loops, that's exactly the point, the function calls itself, it usually calls itself when there's more to compute, or it returns a value and that comes back thru the que
 
@igorw its actually very easy, factorial can be described using recursion, however it can be described much better
 
@Baba bioengineering/bioinformatics
 
@igorw as multiplication of range of numbers from 1 to <num>
 
@kaᵠ I more into Payment systems and Fraud Detection
 
@Baba so a thing to consider with being bitwise on strings, it operates on each character
 
+ you've described it in an abstract way, which means your implementation does NOT even have to depend on recursion
 
@kaᵠ yeah .. i know that ...
 
posted on April 23, 2013

Ibuildings is proud to organise the seventh Dutch PHP Conference on June 7 and 8, plus a pre-conference tutorial day on June 6. Both programs will be completely in English so the only Dutch thing about it is the location. This year we have 30+ speakers gathering in Amsterdam. The 3-track main conference covers topics like PHP 5.5, software

 
Example: (not a real one)
1 ATA ACA TAG AGA CAG derivative = 121 131 415 151 315
2 TCT TAT CTG TGT ATG derivative = 121 131 415 151 315
Correlation....
 
huh.. interesting @Ihsan
 
summarized - I do not recommend using clojure in production, nor any other "cool" language as it would end up in a disaster (every language needs practice) BUT i highly recommend learning it to anybody. At least I was amazed by its core library. I've never seen so many utility functions to just anything.
 
@Ihsan true .. true ... you are correct
 
i guess bitwise would be useful there... btw: stackoverflow.com/a/16175931/731947
 
7:26 PM
@KamilTomšík because it's too new/unstable? or because most people can't write decent clojure code?
 
@Baba this is a technique to decode 1-1 easy communication cyphers...
 
need just 3 more votes for my cap today :P
 
@igorw because of nodeguide.com/…
 
You have a db of words and corresponding derivatives... you query the input delta in derivative db then look up for the corresponding words
 
7:27 PM
@kaᵠ cappin'
 
@Ihsan talking about decoding and correlation .. what is the best approach to find and generate numbers based on mapped relationship
 
@Ihsan :) yea.. my first try (2 more) first time i got close i said didn't wanna cap :P mistake
 
@Baba Rule of thumb: Now thy problem...
 
now it is @PeeHaa埽's turn to spam with links ;-)
 
@Baba LCS bitwise will be some looping with XOR and checking for leading NUL-byte still
can't seem to think of an elegant sollution atm, if there is one...
 
7:32 PM
@Baba You will find ttons of blabber saying do this and do that... First you have to understand the problem... YOU are the ULTIMATE PATTERN RECOGNITION ENGINE. So If you can figure to recognise, then you can teach and tame a beast like a computer to do it too.
 
@igorw btw if you havent already, I can only encourage you to learning node as well, again not for serious production code but for anything else :)
 
@Baba Simply saying ... I do not understand what you are asking XD
 
@Ihsan +10 for that ^^
 
@kaᵠ lol
 
@KamilTomšík yeah, JavaScript isn't really well suited for production. oh, wait...
 
7:35 PM
@igorw it is... just not suitable for everything
 
@Ihsan got that
@kaᵠ lol
 
@Baba I worked DSP, recognition, vision and hearing, they are somehow like mappings... and generally pain in the neck..
 
@Ihsan i agree
 
@KamilTomšík clojure seems significantly more stable than node. I would actually consider putting it in production. the main issue however is maintaining that code, because you need to find people who are comfortable with and capable of writing in lisp.
 
@Ihsan Let me give a basic example
 
7:36 PM
All eyes
 
user652649
my internet is slow, so i must be back in 1997... this time i will not sell my google and apple shares
 
@Baba you can write a function for each correlation and apply it in it's place when generating the number, or... generate ranges based on each correlation and mt_rand thru then
 
user652649
buffering...
 
@kaᵠ its more complex than that
imagine Luhn algorithm
 
probably @Baba
 
7:38 PM
Let imagine 10,000 number generated with Luhn algorithm and you don't know it was generated with Luhn algorithm
 
@Baba getting rich?
 
@igorw I would not... yet. Plus, I'd reconsider the reasons for clojure. Why not anything stable already out there?
 
@Ihsan naaaaa .... its just a basic example
 
user652649
buffering...
 
How can you generate Find the relationship between 10000 numbers to generate 1 number that would be valid Luhn algorithm
 
7:39 PM
@igorw and for what exactly would you consider using clojure?
 
wow @Baba that's CS domain
 
So the question is:
Feed beast with series
Beast process the series and find correlation
Beast reverses the algorithm and generates series.
 
I got the issue from 20 digit token in electric meters that use Standard Transfer Specification (STS) ..
@Ihsan where is the beast :)
 
@Baba Beast is the computer, biologic, electronic or photonic does not matter
 
call me the beast :)
 
7:43 PM
can be everywhere (distributed)
@KamilTomšík lol
 
@KamilTomšík find -c -d 435325 3243432 34324343 34343243
 
right now, beast can be found sitting in front of SO chat :)
 
@Baba so you have a method for doing that?
 
@kaᵠ not yet ... that my recent headache
 
@Baba 127404
 
7:44 PM
@KamilTomšík I don't have enough experience with it to answer that question.
 
simple observation, regex style: [2-5]{6,8} @Baba
@Baba you think it's doable?
 
@kaᵠ regex ... lol
 
well... simple way to put things together :)
 
@igorw its awesome for data processing and querying, shamefully, we dont do a much of that nowadays - at least I dont
 
@Baba Hmmm...
Assumptions: no data loss when encoding... and decoding is possible.
 
7:47 PM
@Baba here's my hunch... to get this done you'll have to apply over it different algorithms and see if each algorithm is validated by all of the strings
 
@kaᵠ Too much effort...
 
@Ihsan exactly
 
now... simple algorithms (like the one in my observation would validate all the numbers)
@Baba @Ihsan would love to hear another idea
 
Not recommending or a should do thing.. What I would do is:
Try to SEE the source and target data...
How:
 
@KamilTomšík that is the most obvious use case, but I think there is potential for a lot more. ask me again a year from now, I'll probably be able to tell you more. :D
 
7:50 PM
Implement an ad hoc algorithm mapping data on a bitmap....
To see how it changes on colors, bitplanes, thresholds....
 
@Ihsan that's cool logic, wonder how it would apply here, you actually don't really need a bitmap, use arrays
 
@Ihsan hummmmmmm
 
I mean, I would efficiently use my own brain to figure out what is going on .
The highest throughput is via visual cortex
 
It appears that I am to be congratulated.
 
@DaveRandom Is that so
 
7:54 PM
@kaᵠ In fact they are arrays. The recognition techniques for images are for big blocks, not atomic credit number tricks, But, there is a but there....
 
See, apparently, I was the 1 millionth person to visit a web page and now I am just one click away from having a wonerful prize rushed to me ovenigh
 
And for what, if I may ask?
 
@Ihsan might be difficult dealing with large dataset
 
@DaveRandom You lucky bitach
 
Ooh, glamouring,
 
7:54 PM
@igorw yeah, we'll see :)
 
@DaveRandom lol .....
 
@DaveRandom What if it is right? lol :D
 
I'd like a definition of "wonerful" before I commit to that kind of responsibility
 
@Baba In contrast, the big picture things are made for dealing with large datasets efficiently.
The but there : Discovery of trends.
traits and behaviours
This is one way... And there exists million others.
 
@KamilTomšík in the clojure programming book I saw maze generation in 12 LOC. it took me two hours to understand what the lines do in isolation.
 
8:00 PM
@Ihsan yeah, but this would require a human (either a trained monkey, or a smart one) the trick is to teach the computer to do it
 
@kaᵠ Now I can teach it... But it is hard to tell... :D
@kaᵠ The trick is: getting out of the chomsky types ...
So you go : Context dependant...
To do that you teach contexts.
 
@DaveRandom Congratulations you are the 1.000.000.000.000.000th person to have been shown that cheap banner! You are 1 click away from ignoring the website completely!
 
@igorw after which you've hopefully realized, it could be written in more lines of code, in a more readable fashion :)
 
@kaᵠ It's hard to ignore TPB, there's stuff there that if you don't get it from there you have to trawl tah internetz for days
 
@Ihsan you teach it to recognize a pattern, but when that pattern depletes you'll get another set and need another human to analyze the data and another one to teach the computer...
 
8:04 PM
A context: Is a state which is defined and triggered by a pattern.
 
@DaveRandom may I interest you in some privoxy ?
 
Context triggers the state and according to state rules: (many can be defined)
only the patterns and inner states in the state are valid until state says you can get out...
 
@kaᵠ I actually have the content filter on my router firewall set up to block an enormous list of those websites, I'll just throw it in there ;-)
 
@DaveRandom (Ihsan kneels and starts begging) no no no no no no...
 
Most of the websites I go to are full of errors and empty white spaces
 
8:07 PM
@DaveRandom what does that mean?
 
Great... just spend 30 minutes in JS chat only to find out I have done everything wrong... :(
 
@DaveRandom lol, you know you can always setup a proxy server with php and send all html thru DOMdocument to be repaired and send it back to you :D
 
@kaᵠ I just block domains like adclick and doubleclick at the router, never see any ads (they're almost always external refs). Obviously it doesn't give you any security but it makes the UX a lot cleaner
 
user652649
@PeeHaa埽 we all got to join js chat then to laugh at you :P
 
user652649
evening
 
8:09 PM
It's much faster than a proxy as well, because you don't need to preprocess the content, you're just blocking secondary resources
 
@wes Hey it's not my fault that JS is so fucked up
 
user652649
@PeeHaa埽 it was a mustache-trap
 
And evening
 
Here comes the big trick: What if you
1) Define a pattern recognition language with contexts
2) Make a compiler and engine for it
3) Feed a meta recognition script generator on top
4) Run it and leave it alone?
 
@wes Yeah. They are at it again
 
8:10 PM
@PeeHaa埽 what were you trying to do? why are you blaming javascript? (it is crippled, but mostly the other parts the people are actually fighting with)
 
user652649
@PeeHaa埽 ask to me. and it's not js' fault :P
 
@DaveRandom true, just saying...
 
@kaᵠ I have 1 and 2 done.. ^^
 
@KamilTomšík Well in general I just don't get prototypal inheritance. But in this specific case it was just extending the dom / math
 
@PeeHaa埽 tldr?
 
8:12 PM
Also JS just lacks stuff imho
I think I just got lazy by PHP where there is a function for everything
 
Have a nice time everyone... C'ya...
 
@PeeHaa埽 prototypes are actually much better than classes
 
user652649
@PeeHaa埽 for example?
 
Everybody keeps saying that and I keep having trouble wrapping my head around it @KamilTomšík
 
^^ +1
 
8:14 PM
var ExtendedMath = Object.create(Math);
ExtendedMath.rand = function(min,max) {
    return Math.floor(Math.random() * (max - min + 1)) + min;
};
@wes ^
 
@Ihsan nice, and bye
 
I like JS but I don't like prototypal inheritance. At least, I don't like JS' version of it.
 
@KamilTomšík blanket statements are indistinguishable from ignorance
 
@ircmaxell huh? :) you dont agree?
 
not in a general sense, no
like anything, I think the truth is a balance
 
8:16 PM
@PeeHaa埽 Why would you do that? Math is just a collection of "static" methods...
 
@ircmaxell what I love is that you dont pay the price of classes while you can still have all benefits of classes
 
@DaveRandom I know that now :|
It's a strange thing I tells ya
 
@KamilTomšík except that you pay the price for dynamic chain resolution for every method call or property access. And you lose any form of contract enforcement
 
The clue is in the fact that you never have to new or Object.create it :-P
 
user652649
@PeeHaa埽 what about just doing (function(){ var p = Math.rand; Math.rand = function(a,b){ ......... p(); .......... }; })();
 
8:17 PM
@ircmaxell actually there are usually two common reasons for blanket statements: ignorance and laziness
 
@ircmaxell you loose contract, you dont pay a much performance since Self, where concept of hidden classes was born
 
@wes huh?
 
user652649
or add a new method directly to Math.
 
user652649
Math.rangeRand = function(){ ... }
 
@KamilTomšík sure you do. every access needs to optionally cascade the chain, because any point may have been changed. So caching function pointers isn't really possible.
 
8:18 PM
@wes Yes that works great until ecma introduces the nice Math.rangeRand()
 
@PeeHaa埽 at which point his will override the ECMA Math.rand() for his extended object, and everything is fine
 
@ircmaxell no you dont, every change of object, also changes hidden class (creates new one), from that time, its again as fast as class based language
 
@ircmaxell unless people rely on the new Math.rand
Have fun debugging that
 
@PeeHaa埽 I was talking about your evolution being the better one..
 
aaah right :) sorry
 
user652649
8:21 PM
@PeeHaa埽 i'm lost. you can implement rangeRand by yourself, if it isn't (yet) implemented
 
@KamilTomšík which has overhead, especially on deep objects
 
@wes The yet is the important piece here
 
user652649
if(!Math.rangeRand) Math.rangeRand = function() ...
 
@wes That would be problematic
 
user652649
why?
 
8:22 PM
That means Math.rangeRand will change once it gets implemented and might do something totally different or expect ototally different arguments
 
@ircmaxell I love this talk: youtube.com/watch?v=UJPdhx5zTaw
 
Let's say my implementation of rangeRand return a random number between min and max. And ECMA's future implementation sets your cat on fire
 
user652649
well if you decide to override/extend default classes/objects you must follow the spec
 
@ircmaxell when doing javascript, you have to keep some things in mind and if you do, you'll never have a performance problems, unless you have wrong algo
 
There is no spec because it doesn't exist yet @wes
 
8:24 PM
@KamilTomšík but that doesn't hit the core of the argument you made of:
11 mins ago, by Kamil Tomšík
@PeeHaa埽 prototypes are actually much better than classes
 
user652649
so about what are we talking? possible future name conflicts? call it Math.peehaaRand() :P
 
@wes No, the paradigm of extending core objects is seen as a BIG no-no
 
user652649
not in js, @ircmaxell dozens of frameworks have, for example Array.indexOf, because on older IEs that method doesn't exist
 
user652649
exactly like String.trim
 
user652649
or Object.create
 
8:27 PM
@wes which is universally seen as a bad practice for anything but a polyfill
 
nooooooo :(
 
Where to go to now to call the mods nazis :( @Hiroto
 
ahaha. I will, however, be sad that my request to eviscerate the tag is out of sight
 
user652649
but if you follow the spec, where is the problem...
 
var math = {}, i, l, props = Object.getOwnPropertyNames(Math);
for (i = 0, l = props.length; i < l; i++) {
    math[props[i]] = Math[props[i]];
}
// define/overload your own members here
@PeeHaa埽 ^^
it's :-( but it would work for anything modern
getOwnPropertyNames() is ECMA5
doesn't inherit changes from Math either, if some other lib overrides a member at a later point than that code is run
 
8:32 PM
@ircmaxell two things:
1. monkey-patching - ruby guys would disagree with you (open-classes)
2. I've oversimplified it, but for me, prototype-based language is better than class-based one. The most hardest thing (for me) when doing programming is being focused and if language requires me to first create class (a loooot of potential design questions) to start playing with anything, I am going to use another language instead
 
You could even do var Math = math; in an inner scope to keep the identifier name right
 
@KamilTomšík again, blanket statements are stupid
 
@DaveRandom But but but it looks soooooo ugly :(
 
there are places for prototypical inheritnace. And places for traditional inheritance
 
@PeeHaa埽 It is very, very, very ugly. But I'm really not sure why you'd want to tack stuff on to Math anyway, why not just define a custom object with the extra methods?
 
8:34 PM
@ircmaxell x-based inheritance vs. X-based language, you can have class-based inheritance in prototype-based language too...
 
/me gives up
 
me too
 
@DaveRandom Isn;t that what var ExtendedMath = Object.create(Math); does?
Only the lazy way out?
 
@PeeHaa埽 I guess. But it sort of makes no sense. You can't inherit a prototype from something that has no prototype. But I guess that's the whole point of this conversation :-P
 
:-)
 
8:37 PM
Really what you want is a JS equivalent of __call()
(not the first time I've wanted that, either)
 
@DaveRandom there is no equivalent for that, yet (harmony)
 
I know, the closest is the very non-standard __noSuchMethod__ which I didn't like when I tried it out, even ignoring the fact that it doesn't work anywhere other than FF
 
in JavaScript, 3 mins ago, by Jan Dvorak
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16178639/how-can-i-copy-code-entered-into-jsfiddle
 
Apparently it's supposed to be fun to use though:
> obj.__noSuchMethod__ = fun
 
@DaveRandom however over the time I am not so sure if it is so important - coffescript generator methods are good alternative for most things
 
8:40 PM
Yeh but then you have to use coffeescript
 
eeeeeh
 
:-P
 
@DaveRandom coffee is great
 
I'm British. I prefer tea.
 
hehehehe
 
8:43 PM
/me is going to eat dinner
 
enjoy!
 
user652649
@DaveRandom nice one. also for properties would be great to have
 
i don't know if i should flag that or not, peehaa
I'm laughing too hard to look at it
 
:-P
lol @uınbɐɥs trying to repwhore like a boss ;)
 
heh
 
8:54 PM
@KamilTomšík not really, especially if you have the coffee we have at work which smells like rotting chicken
 
@KamilTomšík it's funny how the dream of "lisp all the way down" actually did come true, except they replaced lisp with JavaScript.
 
Woot! Apple had a good earnings call!
 
@igorw javascript is not homoiconic, plus all those new features in JS 1.8, are way from original scheme ideas
 
that's not my point.
 

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