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9:00 PM
that is why i love php but hate php.net design
Yeah ... that is what i do
even if i want to use a template
 
@Baba I suggested object literals in #php.net last year ago and was told that it's technically difficult. cant recall why though.
 
@Baba and how much do you charge saying you wrote it yourself
 
they are very cool, professionally designed onces
 
@Gordon over 1000x would design it for free .. let them it open
 
9:02 PM
emm .. guys
how would you make a hexagonal map in HTML ?
 
@tereško evening
 
@Gordon what is the meaning of it's technically difficult. ??
is it not template driven ? Smarty i guess
 
@tereško Canvas?
 
i am quite sure that i would a bad idea in this case
 
@Baba I was refering to your earlier question about {}
 
9:04 PM
Is $15000 enough to get someone to develop a relatively simple dictionary style (Term & Definition) app?
 
@Gordon oh ..... thanks x 10000000000000000000
at last someone agrees with me
 
@PeeHaa .. oh .. well .. i'm gonna try
 
@Baba there is an internals post here: grokbase.com/t/php/php-internals/1165vcsc0e/… - not sure if it helps explain anything
 
@PeeHaa The overhanging logo makes the whole site look like it's shifted too far to the right :-(
 
@James depends on the "relatively" part :)
 
9:06 PM
@Gordon .. hold on let me take a look at it
 
@DaveRandom I always thought that site sucked compared to what we had to offer. But hey what you gonna do about it? Redesigning your won site doesn't bring in any money does it :) And besides I don't work there anymore so meh :D
won = own
 
@James array('word' => 'definition');. That'll be $15000 please.
 
@PeeHaa i like them, is demo.guidance.nl/en/page/promotions your own software? or a cms
 
own cms
And it uses Lucene or whatever it is called these days
 
the menu seems a bit off , but that might be opera quirk
 
9:08 PM
@Baba would you mind linking me to some and give me an estimate pricing?
 
The API kinda sucks but it is ridiculous fast
 
@PeeHaa and you say that is way > then 10k?
 
@James send me the requirements via email :)
 
Next question:
3
A: Using WordPress as a CMS: Developer preferences for custom vs existing plugins

MikeSchinkelHi @pingu: Great question! I build custom CMSes for clients, I don't set up blogs for clients so I find that for the types of clients I service that I'm using almost exclusively custom plugins. My clients typically want things exactly like they want them and I find very few off-the-shelf plug...

Is the same true of Drupal?
 
@Gordon seen ..... the complication has to do with RFC specification .. but that has been cleared out ...
@Gordon thanks for the link
@InGodITrust pricing ???for what
 
9:16 PM
@Baba i am trying to get a feel for how much people charge for a decent looking website. Site similar to netlighting.co.uk. Am I way of the mark by thinking around 10000 dollars?
 
I won't pay 10000 for that crap ... others may
pricing nothing to do with what other people charge
Or are you trying Expectation–maximization
 
@Baba NO, but when someone a possible client asks me to do that for him, I want to know how much other my rivals would take from him in order to take the maximum
 
In statistics, an expectation–maximization (EM) algorithm is an iterative method for finding maximum likelihood or maximum a posteriori (MAP) estimates of parameters in statistical models, where the model depends on unobserved latent variables. The EM iteration alternates between performing an expectation (E) step, which creates a function for the expectation of the log-likelihood evaluated using the current estimate for the parameters, and a maximization (M) step, which computes parameters maximizing the expected log-likelihood found on the E step. These parameter-estimates are then used t...
 
@InGodITrust I don't look sideways.
 
One or 2 price information can not help
do a proper survey
 
9:21 PM
Determine how much would you take per hour, and estimate how long it would take to make the site.
 
use that has your estimates of parameters
 
Or, you can make packages
 
@MadaraUchiha say i determine i would take 20 dollars an hour, why shouldnt i take 50 if everyone else is
 
"Base site" = X$, "Add forum" = +Y$ "Add Blog" = +Z$ and so on.
 
that would even determine how you would charge
 
9:23 PM
@InGodITrust Because you don't care how much everyone else makes, you care how much you do.
 
by hour
by project
 
@MadaraUchiha but how do i findn the value of $x $y $z
 
or by the clients pocket ..... guess that is common this days
 
@InGodITrust Determine what seems fair to you.
 
by features
 
9:23 PM
How much would you pay, and experiment
 
@MadaraUchiha I prefer to stick with the market price rather then what seems fair
 
by Manpower
 
@MadaraUchiha Do you even look where you're going? :-P
2
 
@DaveRandom I do, and I'm appreciated by a lot of clients.
 
Say you brought out a car without knowing how much cars sell for. You would not know if you could ask 10000 or 50000 for it
 
9:25 PM
@InGodITrust Cars are a slightly different matter.
 
@InGodITrust car is ambiguous
 
Because getting a car in the first place involves serious spending.
 
@MadaraUchiha just an example
 
(Of money)
 
Totota , Honda , Ford , BMW, Range Rover , Hummer etc
 
9:25 PM
When making a website, you (theoretically), only spend time.
It's up to you to determine how much your time is worth.
 
Are you telling me there is no corelation between one developers pricing and the others?
 
Then you have Toyota camery , Toyota Corola .... etc
 
There probably are. I argue there shouldn't.
 
One could be taking 1000 dollars and for the same thing another taks 10000?
 
9:26 PM
Then why would anyone go to the expensive one?
 
Then there is Toyota Camry 2.0 ,2.2, 2.4,2.6 etc
 
If the other one is considered a shark, and you're considered "small fry"
@InGodITrust reputation.
 
@MadaraUchiha You keep your pimping activities on your own time.
 
Name, luxury, quality, insurance, etc.
 
:-P
 
9:27 PM
=)
 
@MadaraUchiha so for the same thing, you get paid 10 times more cos of your rep?
Sounds good to me
 
@InGodITrust Welcome to the world!
 
/ Lucky I trust In God/
 
@InGodITrust Have you never heard of Apple?
 
Who would you trust more? a 100,000$ lawyer, or a 1,000$ one?
 
9:28 PM
@MadaraUchiha Neither. They're lawyers.
 
What would (most people) buy? a 2,000$ iPhone, or a 300$ Galaxy SII?
 
So are you saying to start charging low, get a reputation and as the clients build up to up the price
@DaveRandom :)
 
@InGodITrust I'm saying you determine your own wage as a freelancer.
If you're confident enough that clients would still come, despite having higher prices, go ahead.
 
But you agree that I shouldnt be charging ridiculously low prices?
So at least that I should be able to get a feel for?
 
@InGodITrust I used to freelance (for fun mostly), and I determined prices to match my current life-style
So that you cover your expenses, plus get some to spare and save.
This might actually be a very interesting question over at Programmers
 
9:33 PM
@MadaraUchiha and what if I told you that people were laughing at you behind your back because everyone else was taking more for the exact same thing and you werent taking advantage of yourself?
 
@InGodITrust Who would be laughing? And again why should you care?
 
@MadaraUchiha thanks for that link, just what i am looking for
 
You're earning your own money for your own sake, not for theirs
 
@MadaraUchiha but YOU COULD HAVE BEEN SKIING INSTEAD OF DRINKING BEER
 
@InGodITrust Again, that depends on what you want to do
You set a goal, and you get there.
Do you want to go skiing? Or do you want to chill out with beer?
 
9:38 PM
I want to have the most money possible, got expenses coming along in life
 
The tricky part is setting some realistic goals (i.e. not say "I want to buy a mansion"
 
Right. Better buy a jet instead :P
 
@MadaraUchiha yeah, but if you could then why not take more money, i still disagree , it is always taking the maximum you can
 
@InGodITrust If it's that interesting for you, contact 5-6 web building companies/freelancers, and discuss the making of a website and pricing.
You don't have to sign a contract to hear the price offer.
Thing is, price differs between projects.
 
@MadaraUchiha yeah, pretend i am interested or something?
Thats how this conversation started
 
9:41 PM
@InGodITrust You could do that
 
Well Thats how this conversation started and thats how it is gonna end!!!!
Can you just tell me if this answer applies to Drupal as well? wordpress.stackexchange.com/a/4822/22656
 
@PeeHaa I wouldn't say that.
downvote? sure. Delete? Nah.
 
@MadaraUchiha It's a free country
:)
 
@PeeHaa Deleted the entire question though :D
 
9:45 PM
hehe
 
Well fellas I'm off to bed
Good night, cya tomorrowz
 
later @MadaraUchiha
 
@MadaraUchiha THANKS FOR YOU TIME apprecitaed
@PeeHaa Can you just tell me if this answer applies to Drupal as well? wordpress.stackexchange.com/a/4822/22656
 
Idunno. I try to do as little as possible with both WP or drupal
 
@PeeHaa what, roll your own?
 
9:49 PM
@PeeHaa Who told you that?
 
@InGodITrust I would roll my own CMS. That way you are sure it works, you will now how it works / what it can do and you are not dependent on 3rd parties.
I'm just an employee, but making a business around some 3rd party sounds like a bad idea to me
@DaveRandom Some people from the US of fucking A told me that ;)
 
@peehaa and reuse it every time?
 
@InGodITrust You should make your CMS as flexible as possible. If some clients wants something you don't have (yet) in your CMS you can charge them for the work while you add a module you can also use for other clients
 
@PeeHaa Those guys again? They're always causing trouble, rocking the boat. They'll be democratically electing leaders next.
 
Again I'm just an employee under contract...
 
9:55 PM
@PeeHaa but I'm sure youre CMS isnt nearly as full featured as Wordpress. Do you really have a whole admin section CMS set up?
 
@InGodITrust did you check ExpressionEngine? expressionengine.com
@in
@InGodITrust Its the best CMS for me at least :D
 
@InGodITrust I don't know what you mean by admin section. But it contains everything most clients ever want (if they pay for it that is)
 
@Matija i decided to stick with Wordpress because it has so much DOCS and plugins
@PeeHaa And how much would HIS HIGHNESS charge
 
@InGodITrust That's great until there is leak in some plugin... And trust me (although I'm not god) in WP plugins there are holes
 
And when you tell youre customers you are charging more cos of a new module you are writing for them, wont they go to someone who has it already written?
 
9:58 PM
@InGodITrust Again I do not charge anything. I'm under contract for a boss
 
@PeeHaa TRUST? :-)
 
@InGodITrust WP was developet as Blog engine thats why I dont like it and would never ever use it for a CMS
 
@InGodITrust Sure they can go to some 1-2-3 webshop supplier or some young neighborhood kid. But most (larger) organizations will not do that
 
@PeeHaa yeah i understand, it is beneath them to start looking for a cheaper alternative, you just tell them what it costs and they cough up. Right?
@Matija yeah but with custom post types and all...
 
@InGodITrust yeah and its free lol :D
 
10:05 PM
@PeeHaa Does your own CMS cater for all different types of sites like WP does. IE if you made a forum for someone and someone else wanted a gallery, does your own CMS cater for both
 
@InGodITrust It's just data, so it would be easy to implement
 
So what sort of features would your CMS have for your clients. Editing, deleting etc etc, blocking users
 
Can be anything. It is module based
 
Could be written in an hour?
 
posted on November 11, 2012 by Michelangelo van Dam

October is often the month where all PHP businesses look towards sunny California, because it's ZendCon time! This year was no exception and it was a true blast. And ZendCon means not just 4 days of PHP goodness but also 2 days and a half of Uncon power. And this year I had the honour and pleasure to be in charge of the ZendUncon sessions. Because my involvement in those uncon sessions, I miss

 
10:12 PM
@InGodITrust An entire CMS? Of course not. A module? Probably
 
Still thinking of getting to know WP like the back of my hand. I have written small CMS for individual sites before but they were specific to that site. How do you write a CMS which can cater to all types of sites?
 
@InGodITrust You just go the WP route and see how long it takes before you get a phonecall of one of your clients saying his/her site got hacked.
Especially when relying heavily on 3rd party plugins
 
@PeeHaa but it's soooooooooo secure
 
:P
 
10:20 PM
@PeeHaa but everyone is doing it? can you give me examples of what your cms does
 
Neh not really
 
Hey all of you, what would be the best way to check if class property is set, lets say I have property protected $card, and want to check if $card is set. I write method public function hasCart() { ... } would I use 1. isset($this->card); 2. is_null($this->card) 3. if(null !== $this->card) ??
 
Yoda condition FTW!
 
@PeeHaa thanks for your help!!!
 
10:25 PM
isset works fine
 
@PeeHaa I have seen this Yoda condition 100 times in Symfony2 source! And I even think Fabian always puts null first!
@PeeHaa let me check :D
 
:D
 
@ShaquinTrifonoff yeah im using isset all the time, but now I'm checking if there is something else maybe better like is_null or something else. Thanks!
Yep, symfony2 is full of "Yoda Conditions"
@PeeHaa Wait so Yoda Conditions are wrong and should be avoided?
 
@Matija is_null() asserts that the tested value is exactly NULL, but the variable must be declared - if it isn't it will trigger a warning. is_null() is actually completely useless, you either want isset() which suppresses the potential error, or === NULL which does not incur the overhead of calling a function.
 
10:34 PM
They looks a bit awkward to me @m
 
Chances are what you want is either isset(), empty() (which also suppresses the error) or property_exists() which will return TRUE even if the property is NULL and does not care about visibility (i.e. it works with private/protected properties)
 
@PeeHaa yeah they do look awkward
@DaveRandom Thanks, this explains everything.
 
my theme still feels like its missing a feature or something...ugh its kinda annoying me
 
it looks just as bad as it did yesterday... what do you mean?
 
10:49 PM
MOAR JQUERY!
 
Is Gravatar working for anyone else?
 
it seems to be working on wordpress sites... what do you mean
 
That's the list of users...
I went to gravatar.com, and it said Welcome to nginx!. I refreshed the page a few seconds later, and it said PHP works!. Now it shows the homepage without any styles or images.
 
@Nile like the post does it have all the elements? Is the sidebar missing something etc.
 
why dont you look at other blogs instead of asking the same question over and over again?
 
10:54 PM
@Nile I have...
 
@ShaquinTrifonoff works for me
 
So the issue is probably not that it's missing something... The issue is that, as previously stated multiple times, the theme sucks.
 
Mornings.
 
Must just be my internet connection then :/
 
10:55 PM
refresh your page
 
Nope... tried that multiple times :)
 
Aliens
ping www.gravatar.com
tracert www.gravatar.com
etc.
 
Ping is fine.
 
clear cache, try again?
 
Cleared the cache, still not working
 
> You've reached the maximum of 16 Deletion votes per day; come back in 54 minutes
 
super user????
 
@rlemon the has been deprecated in favor of
@PeeHaa honestly .. not a real question
but i have no votes
 
ah k. :)
 
11:07 PM
I did just notice that the review link has changed - probably a while ago I just never used it again until recently.
 
@tereško cv or dv?
 
cv & delv
 
They try to right-click, and it doesn't work, so they select 'view source' from a browser menu, or use the developer tools that come with their browser :P — Shaquin Trifonoff 14 secs ago
 
i might have few more downvotes
 
I see, but you posted cv after rlemon posted dv... and not review-pls...
 
11:09 PM
@ShaquinTrifonoff same user
 
good :)
 
now you are confusing me...
 
doesn't take much though, to be fair... :-P
 
11:12 PM
Don't know which is worse.. question, answer, or both
@DaveRandom do you want to have more holes in your body than mother nature gave you?
 
@webarto Oh yeh, I forgot I was dealing with a gun owner. Maybe you should just move to the US and have done with it.
 
Basically, he has more reputation from Questions than from Answers.
@DaveRandom Knife, sonny, knife :P I LIED
 
@webarto Just you try it, I'll set Gerald on you...
 
Is it a dag? I like dags...
 
11:18 PM
Nov 7 at 21:09, by DaveRandom
@MikeB We have a fearsome hamster in our armoury called Gerald, and we will have no problem setting him on you. He'll chew through that flimsy T-shirt in an instant, do you have any idea how annoying in it when all you clothes have holes in them?
 
HAHA
I guess, you can ask me, do you want more holes in your t-shirt than [fill in the blank]...
 
is there a way to change "One Response" to "One Comment" because for my image post type I have it say comments and for regular posts it says response
It seems logical to respond to a post and comment on an image
 
Ok, you want a solution? Why don't you encrypt the answers (simple scrambling) and then decrypt them as required? — marios polycarpou 2 mins ago
He still doesn't get it :P
 
encrypt = simple scrambling... genius...
 
Even if you did that, people would still be able to execute the decryption function :P — Shaquin Trifonoff 1 min ago
He hasn't responded yet.
 
11:27 PM
He is confused...
 
funny
I can't seem to find an answer to what I want so I don't know if it is possible unless I need to add a comments.php file?
 
Give me 10 minutes I'm about to call NASA for you... — marios polycarpou 34 secs ago
He replied...
Ah, Gravatars are displaying again :)
 
@mariospolycarpou Are you serious...? Look around you. You're clearly out of line here. For every bad idea posted on SO, a penguin dies... and you've killed at least 25 penguins just by posting this answer. Delete it before more penguins die! (and you'd be in better hands if you called the NSA...) — Nile 2 mins ago
 
Thanks for helping @Nile :)
Please delete this answer.Shaquin Trifonoff 2 mins ago
 
user1125394
11:47 PM
@ShaquinTrifonoff you're on linux?
 
I'm done for today. laters
 
@cyril I dual-boot Windows with Linux. I'm using Windows 8 RTM right now.
 
laters @PeeHaa
 
user1125394
just hesitating chromium or chrome?
 
user1125394
chrome: deb dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb stable main
 
user1125394
11:49 PM
chromium is default
 
Nothing wrong with Chromium :D
 
hello
 
user1125394
I've only Version 22.0.1229.94 Ubuntu 12.10 (161065)
 
:O
You should upgrade to version 25 :)
 
user1125394
how? don't rly want to build it every day
 
11:52 PM
31 mins ago, by benlevywebdesign
is there a way to change "One Response" to "One Comment" because for my image post type I have it say comments and for regular posts it says response
 
@cyril You don't have to build it every day, it's already done by a build bot.
 
@benlevywebdesign I doubt anyone knows what you're talking about
 
It seems logical to me to respond to a post and comment on an image and I've look on the wp docs and found nothing
@Nile when you are viewing comments/responses it says "#(the number of) Response to..."
 
@Nile It continues....
When all the penguins die, your answer is automatically deleted. — Shaquin Trifonoff 18 secs ago
 
where
 
11:55 PM
and I wanted it to say comments when its for an image post
 
@ShaquinTrifonoff I feel like that's enough...
@benlevywebdesign ...where?
 
Yeah, I think it is :D
 
user1125394
@ShaquinTrifonoff you download it or add it as sofware repositories sources?
 
11:56 PM
gangbanged
 
@nile on the responses/comments
 
@cyril Download it, and extract it to somewhere (e.g. /opt/chromium).
 
@benlevywebdesign try WP SE
 

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