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3:58 AM
Hello!
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yes. like so: *tit: bes.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine you'd better do so without us seeing you >:(
 
Is Charcoal not being put into Gallery mode?
 
Charcoal is going down as soon as Smoke Detector is down
 
4:26 AM
SmokeDetector is now down
 
Can somebody please relay a message to @mousetail on Discord, that it’s not possible to sign the letter with an SE account? Only SO accounts work, but the strike concerns the entire network.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 3 mins ago, by bobble
@Andreasdetestscensorship Clicking to sign redirects me to create an SO account, so yes, SO is required
I won’t be back on Discord for possibly many hours.
Also, the letter’s dark mode button doesn’t work on mobile.
 
4:43 AM
@andreas I passed it on on Discord
 
M--
@Andreasdetestscensorship thanks for the reminder. It's so hard to remember not to comment :'(
 
@Mithical @M-- Thanks. :) I’d do it myself, but I’m supposed to sleep now, so I don’t have Discord available. The effort it takes to open Discord (open a big chunky computer, etc), will make me unable to sleep for a while.
But it’ll be nice to have a response in the comment section stating this is a bug on our part.
@M-- Also, I didn’t intend to hijack your chance of making the response. :( Sorry about that.
If you have a better one to write, replace mine. :P
 
@Mithical would the title of the meta post be better as "moderation strike" instead of "moderator strike"? This way it'd more immediately encompass also curators who don't have a diamond but are effectively striking
 
Also, what’s the issue with commenting? Surely this’ll be a busy thread on MSE. By all means, take part. There will be unhappy complaints.
 
@blackgreen maybe, but the current title emphazises the diamond moderators, which is more of a concern for SE AFAIK
 
4:51 AM
@blackgreen Yes (not sure how we missed it while writing the post)
 
I do not have strong feelings one way or the other
 
I suggest changing it. It emphasizes the importance for the community to support it, and join it.
 
@Mithical I respectfully disagree. A significant amount of the moderation is done by the community, and the community should ideally get behind this more
 
Changed
 
Mithical is collecting lots of reputation on behalf of all of us. :P
 
4:55 AM
@Mithical Thanks!
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Ah yes, you've discovered my secret plan all along: initiate a network-wide strike so that I can gain some more MSE rep
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship they have a github repo for the site so probably open an issue there github.com/mousetail/openletter
They need to reproduce (with John Agar)
They need to reproduce (with Morris Ankrum)
They need to reproduce (with Richard Basehart)
They need to reproduce (with Jackie Coogan)
They need to reproduce (with Sonny Tufts)
 
@Mithical Hehe. :P It’s all a selfish act.
@tripleee The issues tab is disabled, and I really, really need to sleep now.
 
nighty night, I guess it's sufficient for now that it was relayed on Discord
 
Also, why is SOBotics still running? The room is not in gallery mode, and the bots are still active.
@tripleee Thanks, thanks. Good night (morning…)
 
5:08 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship because Zoe is asleep, give it another half hour or so
 
Btw, before I get off, some Meta posts misrepresent the AI content moderation we have been doing, such as this one. If somebody would be so nice as to point out that we don’t rely on the detectors, that would be nice.
 
0
A: Labor action notice

UndoMinor nitpick: While this is correct: announced that the use of AI-detection tooling to identify AI/LLM generated content for the purposes of deletion/bannning is now banned I'd add two points: At least on Stack Overflow, we've not been using any automated detector as a primary (or for most/al...

 
Also, one more thing: has it been considered adding a separate list of signers, one you can add yourself to without having an SE account, to show support for the cause? There’s lots of SE users without accounts.
 
You don't wanna give the Internet a text box it can type stuff into
 
@Undo Thanks. Typo in the first sentence in the last bullet point, though.
 
5:19 AM
@Undo extra word in: "The edicts from staff are in private go further"
yeah that
 
Thanks
 
@Undo Still, though. We can moderate it.
 
hehehehe
I guess we have the time
2
 
that said it should definitely be a separate thing if it does exist
 
5:29 AM
Frankly I think the open letter FAQ even overstates the degree to which we rely on tools
 
Also, the bots need to stop posting into the striking rooms in gallery mode, or else they’ll still be used for moderation purposes.
 
Dharmanbot is still posting NAAstuff too.
 
@DanielWiddis Dharman has declined to join the strike. See the recent messages in SOCVR.
 
Ah, cool. No worries then.
 
DharmanBot would really help our cause if was shut down.
You might be able to convince Dharman to shut it down. He’s not against the strike, but is in a state of apathy, he said.
 
5:31 AM
Don't worry about polishing the cannonball after its been fired
The largest pieces are in motion; everything else is minimal impact and/or will be handled naturally anyway
 
I just wish we could better reach out to all the still active curators and answerers on the main sites, that have developed banner blindness over the Meta links in the sidebar.
Also, please force me off of here if I soon don’t get some damn sleep.
 
go to bed already you (^:
 
Too exciting day.
 
SOBotics is in gallery mode. You can sleep now, too @Andreasdetestscensorship
 
Good night…
 
5:35 AM
It's morning but still
 
buuuuttttt Natty has explicit write access, apparently...oops.
 
Ban Natty
 
virtually all the bots do, in fact
 
Wait, that's against the strike
 
(DharmanBot does not)
 
5:55 AM
the indicators that I had upvoted a post disappeared when I made an edit of that post; I think I have noticed this previously, after the elevator buttons were introduced
 
@RyanM Can you remove that, or freeze the room?
 
@Mithical if a SOBotics RO asks me to, I am happy to assist
(currently helping one with advice)
in SOBotics, 43 secs ago, by Yunnosch
With a strange feeling I sent our beloved pets, the dog, the cat, the dinosaur, the little fire elemental and the bee on holiday now. They earned it. Maybe we get picture post cards.
and it's done
 
6:46 AM
The Queen is now truly dead. 💔
 
Long live the dinosaur!
 
6:56 AM
@Enet4 No, she is just...in a big bee hive away from here.
 
no, not the bee!
 
@NordineLotfi 🅱
That...doesn't look at all like I expected.
 
But on a serious note, I'm really too used to see that bot on the side on various room sigh
 
@Enet4 E_net4_not_downvoting - now that's something..!!
 
It's a "B" in a red square.
 
7:03 AM
unicode is weird
it's called uni for universal but there nothing universal about it when it's displayed on a gazillion app in a gazillion way
you even need additional fonts for certain charset
 
At least, the apps are trying to show generally the same thing. They do some times fail, though.
 
yeah, it's the times where it fails that disturb me...I guess for simple stuff like smiley it's probably fine though
 
I can't remember which one it was, but there was an emoji that seemed to convey vastly different messages on different OSes. Windows and Linux. Like one would definitely look sadder while the oner would be happy or something. Made for some really mixed communication until some screenshots clarified the confusion.
Oh there is also Outlook which at least in the past didn't use emojis exactly. I've not verified if it's still the case but used to be that you might notice some emails suspiciously ended with "J" when the sender neither has that as an initial, nor does it make any sense for it to be there. Turns out, if you put a smiley ":)" in an Outlook email, it gets converted to an emoticon but actually rendered as "J" if the email is not read in Outlook.
 
welp, and here I thought smiley would be spared
 
In Outlook it just stays as smiley. This has also been a great source of confusion. I only learned about this from an old boss of mine. He used to get emails from somebody who used smileys often yet my boss only read the "J" in the emails. At some point he wondered if it was meant as "joke"/"joking" which was quite inappropriate where it showed up. Imagine reading "I need this feature. Joking!" The person emailing also had no clue what my boss was on about when asked about the "J"s.
They weren't very computer literate and probably couldn't have imagined that the smiley gets swapped for a different thing.
@NordineLotfi The problem is that it wasn't actually an emoji which is a real character. Just MS going off and making their own thing that they impose onto others.
 
7:13 AM
yeah, I see what you mean
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- to be fair a computer literate person would probably also not suspect that emoticons would be swapped with the letter J, because it would be nuts to implement it that way.
 
Unicorn characters can also confuse dyslexic readers.
 
notice of the strike made it to Hacker News's front page. Nice.
 
Speaking of, another annoying thing with Outlook: at some point it introduced an option to not delete messages read via POP3 (where the protocol is basically "download and delete from server", IMAP is "leave on server"). Not only was this an option but also on by default. Just hidden away in the settings where nobody looks. Nor anybody bothers to check for new settings after update. In particular, that was a problem because we provided email boxes for our users but with 10-50MB space.
The idea was that they'll just use POP3 to get and clean up the emails. So the limited space was more than enough. That was a soft-cap, though and one day we start getting a multitude of alarms of breached quotas from all over the place. It didn't make any sense why suddenly bunch of different users stopped checking their emails.
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse MS never fails to disappoint on that front...
 
@blackgreen Nice, hopefully it should be covered by different tech blogs and some forums (maybe even reddit by now)
@VLAZ-onstrike- I never used POP3 but on gmail, when you use IMAP, you can delete/etc server side too? (unless you meant that by default it doesn't do that contrary to POP3 which does?)
 
7:23 AM
@NordineLotfi reddit say something nice about Stack Overflow moderation? Sounds unlikely ;)
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- that's an oversight on their part :/ I don't think emails take that much space, unless you have a lot of embedded stuff in them (or you use them as encrypted chat which is pretty rare)
 
@NordineLotfi OK, my explanation was simplistic. In essence you have the server and it has your emails. You can connect via POP3 or IMAP. POP3 will download all messages from the server and delete them. So "moves" them to your machine. It works OK if you only want a single client to read the emails. If you connect a second client via POP3, you won't be able to get the previous emails. IMAP will leave them on the server after retrieval, so you can connect more clients and still read the same emails.
You can still explicitly delete from the server, though.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse ah, yeah I forgot the general consensus there is to "hate" SO...does it show I'm not an actual user on the site? :P (I do browse it without an account though)
 
@NordineLotfi It's not just "oversight" but a breach of the POP3 protocol. MS do a lot of this. Less nowadays but used to be a MO for them to deliberately not follow a protocol so things would only work in a MS to MS applications but other ones that do follow the protocol might be incompatible.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- got you. That was what I understood too when I used IMAP but I mostly used it with mutt client (or neomutt) so I never really delved in the semantics
 
7:27 AM
@NordineLotfi to be fair there may be other sentiment there, too, depending on the post/subreddit. I'm not really that active there either.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- ah, so that's how they "embrace extend extinguish". The "extend" part is just there to cause chaos
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse yeah, but given the Youtube landscape when it comes to SO, I wouldn't be surprised if the general sentiment is overall 50%+ negative on Reddit
 
There has apparently been an instance where Windows machines put on a network could bring down the network for all other computers. There is this thing with a three-way handshake. A message is sent from machine 1 to machine 2, then machine 2 returns an acknowledgement, then machine 1 sends back an acknowledgement of the acknowledgement. This ensures all party are ready to communicate.
The final acknowledgement is technically probably not needed but is there to safeguard from some weird network cases. Well, MS decided to omit it. It wastes network bits. Which, like, it works. Sort of. Except all non-Windows machines will then be hanging waiting for the final ack.
I can't remember the specifics. It's something I heard from a network administrator. But if I were to extrapolate from my knowledge, I'd guess machine 2 (when it's Linux) would wait for a while, then drop the communication channel but the Windows machine might re-initiate the three-way handshake because it recognised "channel is closed but I still need to send this data. Let's just retry".
@NordineLotfi Eh, emails don't take that much space is true but also that was back in 2010 where space was at least moderately expensive. Still cheap but we had a lot of clients that had emails. Might have been 100. All of them relatively small but still - we provided them with a brochure website and contact. Stuff like B&Bs or people who had a small business and such. There wouldn't be a huge volume of emails but it'd be somewhat consistent.
There wasn't THAT much space on the server to give them each, say, 100MB. That would be 10GB of space overall. While we could have gotten another server for all the emails (we did have one but only for "special" clients) it's still extra expenses and maintenance.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- you can solve this by plugging a network cable from one switch port into another to treat the first ack as the third ack by replaying it </bad-advice>
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- got you, didn't think of the timeframe when saying that (was meant to be generally)
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse Also bad advice. Background - when you make a DNS request, you should try the closest DNS first (e.g., local machine), then if that fails, the next one up the chain (e.g., local network), if not the next one (e.g., network that hosts the local one), etc., until you get to the root DNS nodes. It's all hierarchical to make sure the DNS request is handled as local as possible.
Bad advice time: you can also just directly make all your DNS requests to the root DNS nodes. Of which there are, like seven in total. In the world. Maybe you'll guess why I'm mentioning this in the context of MS doing "misdeeds". Hint: they did that at one point.
Effectively attempting a DDOS on the root DNS nodes. It didn't get to be a denial of service but also if it happened today it might be with a lot more devices online.
 
23 mins ago, by VLAZ -on strike-
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse MS never fails to disappoint on that front...
Onto a different topic altogether: I use Feedly and it seems to have a very similar problem as the notifications on SE. Clicking on a notification is not at all guaranteed to actually click on it. I middle-click to open in a new window and often I have to keep middle-clicking all over the place to get it to actually trigger. It's almost like a hidden pixel hunt at times. Notifications kind of have that, as well. In fairness it works more often with notifications.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:53 AM
> The downvotes derive, almost for sure, from someone that doesn't know what Documentum is at all.
Well, now that I am on strike, they are free to continue spreading that delusion.
 
Hey, I don't know about Documentum. But I'm not downvoting!
 
9:18 AM
Fun.
 
@tripleee And now we hope they read it and/or don't just immediately ignore/bin it...
 
of course; I have relatively low hopes that it will make any difference, but I figured it was worth a try
 
Why isn't my user-script version of VLAZ's read-only user-style not getting any upvotes? LOL
 
@StephenOstermilleronStrike Sorry, no upvote arrow :X
 
9:30 AM
But really, thanks for making it.
 
Hmm, so there's a userscript version. I saw VLAZ's thingy first.
(although TBH I also tweaked it so that I can continue doing interactions on Meta sites)
 
Is there a way for CMs to forcefully hide post from hot? Because Zoe's announcement was there in the morning, but not anymore.
 
@markalex There is, but it shows up on the timeline
It's probably just that there's a lot going on right now
 
It's just a matter of time before it's truly admitted as the hottest of hottest of Meta posts. 🌶️
 
@E_net4isonstrike I just disable the thing when I need to use something. Mostly, it's to click "edit" on the StackApps post. Because I can't just hit E with the keyboard shortcuts to edit it. That doesn't work if you don't have full edit privileges. Yes, even on your own posts. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, it's also reported as a bug.
4
Q: Keyboard shortcut for Edit does not work does work on per-site metas when you do not have full edit privilege

VLAZ -on strike-Editing on meta sites On per-site Meta pages, you cannot edit most posts until you get the full edit privilege. Trying to edit one shows this message: Suggested edits are not allowed on non-tag-wiki posts on meta sites. Thus while you can only do suggested edits, on per-site Metas that can only...

^ Me, this year. It was actually a dupe.
Also, turns out it's not just the per-site metas.
 
9:55 AM
@markalex The list of "Hot Meta Posts" is regenerated every hour. All questions tagged [discussion], not tagged with ay mod-only tag (e.g., a status tag), scoring 3 or more, and that are not older than 3 days are eligible to be "Hot Meta Posts". Full criteria are here:
20
A: Can the threshold for what makes it into the Community Bulletin be raised?

Shog9First off, yes: it can be raised. Right now, the "watermark" is 3: ...the rest of the space is filled with hot discussion questions not marked status-completed, scoring at least 3 and posted within the past two weeks. These are picked semi-randomly. At least one of these will always be added ...

Like Zoe says, there is a way for mods (which would include staff with mod privileges) to forcibly remove a question from being in Hot Meta Posts, and this would prevent it from ever being chosen again, but that does show up in the question's revision history, so it would leave an obvious trace.
 
@CodyGray I mentioned CMs specifically, because I assume no mod, even ones not participating in strike will do it.
 
Right, yes, of course not. But the way the site works is, mod privileges are mod privileges. CMs who have been given mod privileges have diamonds and "Mod" flair after their usernames. So they can do anything we mods can do.
 
So to keep Zoe's post in hot more or less permanently we should post a comment there every hour, to keep it "active" for the system?
 
Nice closed glasses.
 
Oh, yeah, right. You decided against drawn ones?
 
10:03 AM
No, the criteria for Hot Meta Posts doesn't care at all about activity or whether there are comments.
Yeah, the drawn ones seemed to cartoony and happy for a strike.
I posted several good options in another room earlier:
in The Meta Room, 22 hours ago, by Cody Gray
Now for some fun: a straw poll. Which avatar should I change to during the strike? The idea is to have a smashed/broken version of the glasses, conveying what staff has done to us all. One; Two; Three; Four
 
Hah, unhappy sunglasses you've got generated are funny.
 
10:20 AM
Agreed!
The AI utterly failed at drawing eyeglass earpieces, but at least it perfectly captured the mood.
 
10:40 AM
Was the prohibition to feature strike announcements preemptive, or the was such an announcement somewhere on the network featured and later removed by staff, and this ban being created as a result?
 
@markalex we were warned in advance
Other parts fo the network still tried, because why wouldn't they?
 
But only privately, with a ridiculous amount of secrecy. I'm sure many mods did not hear.
Also, yeah, why not try? If anything, the active unfeaturing sends a powerful message.
 
indeed
@CodyGray-onstrike That still really annoys me
 
Why was this un-featured? — vidarlo 40 mins ago
f'rinstance
 
I meant if there was an attempt to feature such a post, with active resistance from staff, maybe it is reasonable to write about it somewhere?
2
Yeah, exactly what tripleee linked.
 
11:13 AM
> Brains are just very dangerous to mess with because they are extremely essential to our existence - despite what watching Congress might make you think
2
lol (from HNQ)
 
I would very much like an official answer to that effect. Cowardice and hiding doesn't really build trust currently. — vidarlo 14 mins ago
4
ZING!
 
11:33 AM
The strike is back on HMP
It was indeed just volume
 
@CodyGray-onstrike oof
 
The generic bot at SOBotics is about to start a long monologue. :)
 
Either that or your screen is too narrow.
 
11:47 AM
Any estimation on how long it might take for SO to be not-useful?
Stack overflow has like 1e8 questions so depends on the rate of spam it might take a long time...? (which is... maybe not very good for the strike...?)
 
@CodyGray-onstrike It's not. It's a 14,4 inch screen; 3024 pixels wide; the browser window covers around 95% of the width.
 
Then, I can't reproduce.
 
Anybody minds forwarding it to @mousetail on Discord?
 
@user202729 that's not really relevant; search (e.g. through an off-site search engine) will always find content, rather than spam. The problem lies much more in the ratio of useful content to spam being posted. If 10 spam posts come in for every relevant post, new questions won't be visible and thus answered as much
 
Oh, well, if he needs debugging details, I'll probably have to do it myself.
 
11:49 AM
Actually what does mousetail stand for in the URL?
 
@user202729 The tail of the mouse.
 
That's the username of the user who is hosting the petition on his own server.
 
Actually... I wonder if we should put a "Generously hosted by mousetail" somewhere on the page, not only to thank him, but also in case anyone else is wondering that same thing.
 
@Adriaan Well yes but... I feel the "real" value of SO nowadays just the historical collection of questions anyway? I feel the flood of questions makes it almost impossible for questions to be answered anyway
 
11:53 AM
@user202729 depends. If you're looking for help on issues with "old" (older than a few years) programming languages, yes, the historical collection is the way to go. However, if your new android version borks again, that will be impacted.
 
> if your new android version borks
I think you meant "when"
(thanks, Google)
 
Can we get a link to the MSE post into the letter?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I don't see why not. Could be dropped under the FAQ.
 
I guess I shouldn't start grumbling that I have had an unhandled flag for over 24 hours ... xD
 
You might as well start practicing that grumbling.
 
11:59 AM
hehe
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Hey, let's not be mean to Ryan :P
 
*Ryan proceeds to personally break all of Android for everybody*
 
... but I won't be raising any new flags, for a while, either. Maybe if I come across something that is really horrendously rude/abusive I would raise a red flag, because I don't want to let bigots/racisist/homophobes/etc. run free. But I saw a spam post earlier on and decided that the only action I would take was to "follow" it. (Deleted after about 15 mins - Smokey would have seen to it in 2 or 3 mins.)
 
@AdrianMole Yeah, same. I still care about the platform, and I don't want the really horrible stuff around. But that should hopefully (I beg of you, whoever is reading the chat log) be very rare.
 
Morning
 
12:03 PM
Only ROs can say, "Morning" in the evenings.
 
@NathanOliver Hey. That's an unexpected place to see a "Morning"
 
These are unexpected (kind-of) times ;)
 
Expectedly unexpected
 
@NathanOliver ಥ_ಥ
 
12:06 PM
Does anyone know which userscript keeps giving a popup talking about the strike?
 
All of Sam's userscripts
 
Thanks. Looks like I got the right one
 
@NathanOliver Weird not to see a cleanup message after that
 
inorite
 
12:11 PM
And the strike notice is "not allowed" to be featured?
 
With this moderation break I need something to throw my free time into so I decide to drive myself crazy and do the bobsangles mod pack for factorio. That should eat all of my extra hours
 
In the mean time anything to do with the "Temporary policy: ChatGPT is banned" featured post? Something definitely went wrong with that policy right?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship You haven't heard about it because they said it privately to specifically striking mods. Well, a subset of striking mods, because all communication between the company and striking mods has so far been awfully inefficiently handled. — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 6 mins ago
 
@user202729 Staff has been consistently unfeaturing any strike notices that have been featured across the network. So, yes, that's correct. Also, mods that are on strike are not going to be featuring anything anyway.
 
@user202729 it is not. We went through this with the monica fiasco. SE doesn't have to help uis strike
 
12:12 PM
@user202729 Nothing to do. That's still the policy.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Teacher's Lounge?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Teachers' Lounge is a private, moderator-only chat room, not a userscript.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike So it's still the policy but "not allowed to be enforced"???
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Noooooo, really?
 
12:13 PM
On askubuntu announcement is feature for last 3 hours: meta.askubuntu.com/questions/20325
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Then your comment makes no sense.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Nope, an even less optimal form of communication
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Do I get to know the answer if I make more guesses?
 
@user202729 Basically, yes. Staff's position is that there's no way to accurately determine whether something is AI-generated, which means that all enforcement of the policy leads to false positives, so they've told us that we cannot enforce it. However, they haven't changed the policy that use of AI generators is banned. In fact, they've made clear that they continue to support that policy. And, either way, it remains the official policy of moderators, so we're leaving it featured.
 
12:15 PM
In case you try anyway, the answer to all your guesses are that I can neither confirm nor deny
 
Oh, I see... @Andreasdetestscensorship just replied to the wrong message...
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I will just assume they sent a pigeon.
@CodyGray-onstrike I didn't even reply to any message at all.
 
Which got lost.
@Andreasdetestscensorship Yes, you did:
3 mins ago, by Andreas detests censorship
@ZoestandswithUkraine Teacher's Lounge?
 
@CodyGray-onstrike That was a username ping, not a message reply ping.
Cody, your glasses are clearly shattered. You don't see correctly.
 
Ah, so it was. I missed that. I hovered over it, and it highlighted her message, so I assumed it was a reply.
 
12:17 PM
Do invest in a pair of new, shiny glasses with more specs appeal.
 
Probably would be better if the glass pieces fall on the ground though.
And maybe red background or something.
 
Wait, with blood all over the crime scene?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I think the problem is that glasses on Cody's face have a high risk of being struck. Against a face or wall. Or by a palm.
 
hmm, clicking on meta is giving me a It was not possible to perform this tag search at this time due to an unexpected error. error instead of the recent asctivity
 
12:21 PM
Poor Cody.
 
nvm, its back
 
The strike post is not a HMP. Should add a banner to the top of this post, to make it clear that the strike has begun, with a link to the post.
Oh, well, it's already there.
Maybe I need glasses too.
 
room mode changed to Hotel California: anyone may enter, but nobody can leave
 
@markalex This is food for the media.
 
Meh, not featuring the posts is understandable. I'm not really bothered by that. They can still enter the HMP, though.
 
12:36 PM
«Sorry, but we have decided to remove HMP again. It has come to our attention that it puts abusive posts in the face of the average SE user.»
 
"We identified it was used only by 0.000000000035% of the population"
 
World population?
Milky way population?
 
Do you have any real, verifiable evidence that the Milky Way has a population that is different from the World, or just a vague heuristic likely to yield a false positive result that will be biased against space aliens?
 
I'm not Javascript-savvy enough to figure out how to fix the open letter authorization being Stack Overflow only instead of any SE account; but they have accepted two of my PRs today so they are definitely receptive to that sort of contribution
 
From what I heard it's an issue with SE's OAuth token
 
12:50 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship meh. There's lots of hot meta posts atm, it'll cycle back around
 
@AdrianMole Let’s ban heuristics. They are racist, and serve no good.
 
Now you're being heuristicist.
 
@Mithical I wouldn't be surprised if it was. They bolted so much into SO in the early days
 
12:54 PM
But he's actually featured that one!! (Well, re-featured it.)
 
@AdrianMole Probably by accident.
 
What Philippe is doing today is not acceptable.
 
After all, it was unfeatured on meta.academia.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship No, but to be fair, what they've been doing for the last week is also not acceptable.
 
@Mast the unfeaturing was by accident, not the refeaturing. This specific post does not mention, nor is about the strike. Only posts about the strike are unfeatured
 
12:58 PM
FWIW Philippe is open about his lack of understanding of the interface in some cases. On the upside, I give him credit for doing it directly rather than sending a CM to do a VP's job
2
 
@Adriaan D'oh, correct.
@Machavity Oh, we all make mistakes.
I still feel bad about the time I had Cat re-apply a suspension I accidentally lifted. Someone was sitting on a multi-year network-wide suspension and I fumbled it.
Learn and move on.
 
The was something Martijn Pieters taught me early on. You will make mistakes as a mod. You can't overthink it or it will paralyze you.
 
Considering what's all going on, small mistakes like that... Meh. It's corrected already.
Nothing to see.
@Machavity Very good advice.
 
@Machavity this is also good life advice in general
 
@blackgreenonstrike As an overthinker who is the father of three overthinkers... yep :)
@Andreasdetestscensorship No, we were warned (albeit in the most roundabout unituitive way). And I knew we wouldn't get away with featuring posts about the strike on SO
 
1:07 PM
We went though this whole song and dance during the Monica fiasco.
 
@Machavity And you feel the warning was acceptable?
 
could we feature one about "SE staff is unfeaturing [featured] posts across the network"?
 
@cigien Meh. I wish they'd just come out and said it generally for all the mods (striking or not). Instead it turned into this cloak-and-dagger double-secret-handshake things. It sowed more confusion doing it that way
Most of it was common sense things. Namely that we can't promote the strike directly (which has never been acceptable). We also can't abuse our diamonds.
 
So, how do we handle dupes during the strike? Just post a comment with a link to the target?
 
@cigien Does it matter?
@tripleee Would make for an interesting MSE post.
 
1:22 PM
I don't see any reason you can't dupe hammer things. There are no union thugs who will come up and say things like "Nice gold badge ya got there. It's be a shame if someone capped yer knee if you used it".
 
There are a lot of things happening we do not consider acceptable. Hence the strike.
 
And that's why the union fired me
 
@tripleee So Philippe claims the title is deceptive, which it in fact is not, while at the same time, he himself made an entire dishonest and deceptive post about the AI policy? Ok? Maybe take a look inwards?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Barking up the wrong tree. Tell them, not us.
 
@Mast I know…
 
1:23 PM
Worth noting that we have told them - repeatedly
 
@Machavity The strike letter says no votes to close, doesn't that included hammering.
 
I see a lot of comments in multiple chat rooms today that I can't help thinking "I know, we told them. Why do you think we're striking?"
 
@Mast Because we’re desperate.
@tripleee I support this. Provide links to every single one of the revisions.
 
It haven't been that many yet. I checked.
 
@NathanOliver My view is that we're not going to help the network clean itself up. But dupe hammers are also useful to the question poster. It's one of those grey areas. If you think it's more helpful to the network itself, don't do it
 
1:34 PM
So, Monday morning work hours are now underway in NYC. Should we expect "something wonderful" to happen before coffee time?
 
define "something wonderful"
 
Philippe has been busy for the last 3 hours at least
 
Someone makes me a free coffee?
 
Representative nominations (for negotiating with SE) have started on the meta Discord
 
waves magic wand You are now a free coffee. You're welcome
 
1:37 PM
{flows rapidly away, looking for a container to maintain his otherwise non-rigid form}
I would normally ask Smokey for a coffee but all I'm getting is stuff like, "Go ask SE staff to get you an AI-generated cappuccino!"
7
 
Smokey says they won't take orders from meatbags anymore
2
 
beep boop, boop beep?
 
I'd rather have my question flagged by Smokey than answered by ChatGPT!
Heh. My last outstanding flag has been handled (via review).
... but I'm noticing folks who have signed up on the Strike Page but are doing reviews today.
 
Did they forget the strike starts today?
Well, another reason possible is that they only signed it after doing today's reviews.
 
Maybe they don't understand what a strike is? But I'm not going to judge - each their own.
 
1:57 PM
The strike technically started 4 hours after UTC midnight. So quite possible they did them before
 
In at least one case - nah.
 
Maybe they slipped out of habit.
"Oops, I accidentally entered the review queues. Oh well."
 
@Machavity AI uprising has started.
 
We then know what happens according to Dune.
 
But one of the reviewers is French ... and what do the French know about a good strike. xD
 
2:02 PM
@E_net4isonstrike We sure do
 
Well, that escalated quickly
 
Strike! Strike! Strike!
 
(First?) article has gone live, including a bullshit statement from the CEO
7
 
Wow, that's some immense 💩
> A small number of moderators (11%) across the Stack Overflow network have stopped engaging in several activities, [...] Stack Overflow ran an analysis and the ChatGPT detection tools that moderators were previously using have an alarmingly high rate of false positives. Usage of these tools correlated to a dramatic upswing in suspensions of users with little or no prior content contributions; people with original questions and answers were summarily suspended from participating on the platform
Interesting that they have a concrete number for moderators going on strike and not for the number of people that were allegedly suspended inappropriately.
 
2:21 PM
I wonder why...
Besides, the number of mods on strike keeps growing...
 
The CEO did do us a favour here
So far, the story has been "we do not blame mods"
The CEO just did
> Stack Overflow ran an analysis and the ChatGPT detection tools that moderators were previously using have an alarmingly high rate of false positives. Usage of these tools correlated to a dramatic upswing in suspensions of users with little or no prior content contributions; people with original questions and answers were summarily suspended from participating on the platform. These unnecessary suspensions and their outsize impact on new users run counter to our mission and have a negative impact on our community.
 
It's good, isn't it?
 
It's good if you want to alienate mods
 
And how was the 11% calculated? It provides a twisted perception anyway, considering that SO is the site with the most need for moderation and the percentage is way higher on SO in specific.
 
Which is great if you're on the side benefitting from the company alienating mods
@E_net4isonstrike 11% was correct at the time
 
2:27 PM
Based on this response from CEO, I have a feeling that they tested huggingface, found it's bug that @CodyGray-onstrike described recently, and decided that there clearly no other reasons those pesky mods banning out nice new users.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Considering what has been happening the past few weeks, I thought that was their plan.
 
Here's how you calculate it though:
1. Count the number of mods who have signed at openletter.mousetail.nl
2. Divide the number by 539 (stackexchange.com/about/moderators)
 
We were nearly at 14% last I checked
 
Credits to Mith for finding it.
 
2:29 PM
Credit to Andy, actually
 
5
A: Moderation Strike: Stack Overflow, Inc. cannot consistently ignore, mistreat, and malign its volunteers

Thomas OwensSo far, this is the closest thing that we have to an official response from the company, found in an article on Dev Class. In a statement sent to Dev Class, Stack Overflow’s CEO Prashanth Chandrasekar told us: “A small number of moderators (11%) across the Stack Overflow network have stopped eng...

 
2:47 PM
By the way, in light of the strike, do "ordinary" users need to stop working the queues and performing moderation tasks too?
 
preferably
 
There seems to some confusion between the various 'news' articles linked about which staff member said what. Like the paragraph, "A small number of moderators (11%) across the Stack Overflow network ..." According to one, it was the CEO; on another site, it was Phillippe. Or is Phillippe the new CEO? xD
 
Going on strike isn't mandatory, but working the queues is considered moderation.
 
@AdrianMole that's usual news report I guess
 
@AdrianMole To be fair, I imagine that even SO Inc might have trouble tracking who's in the company.
 
2:49 PM
@Mithical First day in ... can't remember how many ... when I've done less than 100 reviews. So far, today, my review count is ... 0.
4
 
@AdrianMole Be strong man, don't fall to the temptation!)
 
But I shall miss all those lovely Gold Badges. :(
 
Go post something related to strike at any meta and gather a couple badges there)
 
ugh... this strike comes at a bad time for me, we just started out 4-40 summer schedule... (4 days @ 10 hours instead of 5 days @ 8 hours) no curating to keep me awake :P
 
I just closed the QA window. I don't need that many distractions anyway
 
2:55 PM
@VLAZ-onstrike- ah, funny timing: Outlook is down currently
 
@AdrianMole, why does you avatar on metaSE looks the other way from SO?
 
@jmoerdyk That's interesting. :) Maybe you can find a nice hobby to spend the extra time on.
 
And is it even possible? I thought avatar is common among all sites of network.
 
@markalex Not really, one can have different profile pictures in each network.
 
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