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12:02 AM
You should be able to build it from it's own directory, but otherwise that should work, yes.
 
nah I cba trying to make an ext-only build env work, way easier to just build PHP :-P
 
I hate myself, the reason why my intersection type checks didn't work was because... I forgot to increment the cache slot index
 
i.e. I understand how that process works but I don't get how all the paths are resolved when just building exts and can never make it work
@Girgias seems like a kinda extreme response tbh :-)
 
@DaveRandom Well I suppose that's a result of me trying to code at 4AM
 
buildconf --force
lol classic
@Girgias yeh doesn't seem worthy of self hatred :-P
 
12:05 AM
Haha fair fair
 
@Trowski enabled-by-default?
 
Dw i eisiau tri cwrw.
 
@DaveRandom That's the opposite of what I expected, you should have to add --enable-fiber.
 
yeh it also fails to build with .\ext\fiber/php_fiber.h(17): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'fiber.h': No such file or directory (compiling source file main\internal_functions.c)
and I actually can't find fiber.h...
I just cloned the repo into ext/fiber tho
do I need to do anything else?
oh wait I didn;t even check out the right tree :-P
 
Possible you may have to move the .h files from include up a directory.
Perhaps that build process isn't looking in include.
 
12:17 AM
ah in that case it's missing something from config.w32
I'm not sure what, but I remember that's fixable :-P
 
Probably if I just add the header files to the list, or move them up a directory.
Might need a PHP_INSTALL_HEADERS too.
 
ADD_FLAG("CFLAGS_FIBER", "-Iext/fiber -Iext/fiber/src -Iext/fiber/include /D HAVE_FIBER") is the way I expect it work looking at some of my old ancient stuff
the HAVE_FIBER def is just very old and probably obsolete convention
I think, I'm not convinced about that actually
ARG_ENABLE('fiber', 'fiber support', 'no');

if (PHP_FIBER != 'no') {
	AC_DEFINE('HAVE_FIBER', 1, 'fiber support enabled');

	ADD_FLAG("CFLAGS_FIBER", "-Iext/fiber -Iext/fiber/src -Iext/fiber/include /D HAVE_FIBER")
	EXTENSION('fiber', 'src\\php_fiber.c src\\fiber.c src\\fiber_winfib.c', null, '/I. /Iinclude /DZEND_ENABLE_STATIC_TSRMLS_CACHE=1  /DPHP_FIBER_EXPORTS=1');
}
@Trowski ^ that builds, at least (and fixes enable/disable)
nmake test running now
oh I did this with master also I just realised @Trowski does that matter?
 
Nah, that shouldn't matter.
 
cool, running now, my machine isn't mega quick
 
@DaveRandom Thanks, I'll update that. Seems like it should also install php_fiber.h and fiber.h.
At least based on the other ext in php-src.
 
12:28 AM
yeh that's where you are veering into building extensions standalone again :-P
but for this that is particularly important I guess
 
Assume it does end up in php-src, it might be in Zend anyway.
 
lol windows defender is going nuts about some of the assets used/created by these tests
(accidentally testing whole of src :-P)
 
Oh the PCRE tests?
 
Ah, ok… was going to say…
 
@Girgias not sure and cba investigating rn tbh, it's late and I'm kinda baked
 
12:31 AM
@DaveRandom I mean I think that's the usual ones which get flaged by Defender
 
yeh I have repro'd the failure cases @Trowski (y)
though I get different unexpected magic numbers output
 
Huh, interesting.
I couldn't find anything about the magic numbers that appveyor had.
 
you need to search the hex
(probably, if there is anything at all)
 
Makes sense.
Can you spin up the debugger and see what's causing it?
 
I am attempting to now
it will be a memory leak of some description
@Trowski to make my life easier can you point me at the bit of the source tree where that error is emitted?
 
12:39 AM
My first guess is a PHP_WIN32 specific part of heap.space/xref/php-src/main/main.c?r=ddfe269a#php_error_cb
 
urgh this may have to be a tomorrow job, idk if my brain is in a suitable state for comprehending C rn
 
No rush, I should probably be off myself.
 
#define STATUS_BAD_STACK ((NTSTATUS)0xC0000028L)
that's the error code I got
this does not sound like a fun problem.
:-P
and yeh what you got on appveyor was 0xC0000409 STATUS_STACK_BUFFER_OVERRUN @Trowski
which implies you are reading off the end of a stack var somewhere I guess
/me sleeps but will apply washed brain tomorrow
 
12:56 AM
@DaveRandom Sounds good, thanks. The error code you have makes more sense.
 
1:17 AM
@Trowski this is way above my pay grade, the exception is raised by ntdll.dll at the end of _zend_bailout() :-/
i.e. memory is corrupt in a way it doesn't like even though it's bailing
 
@DaveRandom Hmm… I messed around with how the VM stack is allocated, I must have goofed something with this approach.
 
sounds like it yeh
I really actually am going to sleep this time, but I do have a fully working debug env now
 
@DaveRandom Cool, hopefully tomorrow you can tell me where I went wrong. Thanks!
 
I will need some serious handholding through the codez but I'm sure we can come up with something
nn
and yw :-)
 
1:34 AM
posted on March 20, 2021

News is on the way. In the meantime: Feet !!!

 
@Derick felly cael tri chwrw?
I don't know how badly Google translate failed me
 
 
3 hours later…
4:26 AM
@DaveRandom Here's something interesting: Builds that passed under 8.0.3 on appveyor are no longer passing on 8.0.4RC1.
 
4:45 AM
Passes on 8.0.3 on Windows, so… maybe it's not my fault :P
It's late for me, so I'm headed to bed, but @DaveRandom that will maybe give you some direction. It passes locally for me on 8.0.4RC1, so it seems Windows specific.
 
5:04 AM
Found out I can shave half a second off of my website's loading time if I delete all the tabs in the markup. This makes me feel like a bad person somehow.
 
 
5 hours later…
9:39 AM
@Girgias instanceof string doesn't work either -- the RHS of instanceof is a class, not a type
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 AM
o/
 
@Trowski oh interesting, that gives up a pretty narrow range of commits to look at as well
I am doing stuff with my kid today but will be around in ~6hrs
 
 
1 hour later…
12:02 PM
@NikiC would it work if the RHS is a union of classes?
Rather, should it work?
 
12:15 PM
@Tiffany no and no
Not under the current definition of instanceof
 
12:47 PM
Hmmm
 
1:21 PM
@Tiffany @Girgias github.com/php/php-src/compare/master...iluuu1994:is-expression There are several issues with the implementation but it just a POC. Also, I'm not sure how to get rid of the parens, the precedence of the operator in this case is different than in normal expressions.
 
Weren't interfaces meant for that? 3v4l.org/7Xrsj
 
@Tpojka Sometimes you're not in control of the given classes and can't add interfaces at will. But yes, if you do have control a common interface is probably preferable.
And for primitive types, if ($value is string|int|float) is significantly more readable than if (is_string($value) || is_int($value) || is_float($value))
 
1:37 PM
@IluTov While is is shorter, I think instanceof could be reused, as they're not valid class names anyway.
@IluTov An issue with instanceof is something like $foo instanceof Foo | BAR, which is currently a bit-wise or operation, I think.
 
@kelunik instanceof accepts class_name_reference which means it accepts arbitrary expressions in parens. That would class with parenthesized types. 3v4l.org/mbeWb
 
@kelunik yeah, that's what Girgias pointed out yesterday.
 
It's possible to extend instanceof to some extent, but not fully.
 
@IluTov ugh :P
 
@IluTov interesting o_O
 
1:43 PM
It was meant to say "clash", not "class". Sometimes I read my sentences back and don't even know what I wanted to say myself :D
 
@IluTov Still the OP freeing issue I suppose?
 
@Girgias Yeah, I was thinking about was to pass an arbitrary zend_type to the opcode. That would also avoid us any headache if we add new types as it would just reuse the existing type system logic.
 
Right, I mean there are 2 functions which perform type checks
One for argument/return values and one for typed properties
And they don't really take 2 zend_type
The only one which does is the covariance check I think
 
@Girgias Which is fine. is would still compare a zval to a type.
 
Right right, so the arg/return one should do the trick :D
 
1:52 PM
@IluTov Language's concern shouldn't be covering worse options if there is better/appropriate option already covered/supported. No reason for supporting not-well thought application structure. If that is just only reason for feature. Imho.
 
2:11 PM
PDO::PARAM_INT is treated the same as PDO::PARAM_STR ・ PDO PgSQL ・ #80892
 
2:51 PM
@Tiffany no invites?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:53 PM
Bristol current status, "restive".
 
/**
 * @param callable $callback Function to invoke when starting the fiber.
 */
public function __construct(callable $callback) {}
What is the signature of the callback, @Trowski?
Variadic ..., I assume? Whatever is passed to $start?
\o
 
@LeviMorrison Yes, exactly. Callback documentation is hard.
I think Psalm supports callback parameters, so it probably can be written as callable(mixed ...$args).
 
4:09 PM
Is there any particular reason for separating the callback from the parameters?
Honestly, I think it would be nicer if they were passed at the same time, which would make inference of various sorts easier.
 
@Danack why are people not wearing masks consistently? hard to give police a simpler reason to break up the protest. we had street riots between anti-corona protestors and police yesterday for that reason.
 
Some people are morons is the likeliest explanation.
 
s/Some//
though also the messaging in this country has been consistently inconsistent, and possibly a lot of people genuinely think it's fine because it's outside
also "I'm vaccinated so fuck you" is quite common, I have found
 
@LeviMorrison The constructor originally had an optional stack size parameter, which is now an ini setting. It might be nice to leave the possibility of adding that back or adding another constructor param.
 
@DaveRandom we are just at 9% vaccination so i wouldn't know how the mood tips here when we reach the 50% that you have
 
4:23 PM
@LeviMorrison Alternatively, start could take the callback.
 
@Trowski Yes, I was thinking start would take the callback.
 
@LeviMorrison Thinking about that, it would make code like this more difficult, so I'm not sure I'm a fan of that idea.
 
@Trowski You can avoid calling start?
If not, then that code has a bug waiting to happen :)
Well, maybe. Depends on exact semantics. Is a fiber that never started "suspended"?
 
@LeviMorrison The purpose to create a single fiber that runs the event loop, but we don't want to start it at that point necessarily because it may not have an event registered.
@LeviMorrison No, all the status methods would return false in the initial state.
 
4:30 PM
A fiber must have been running in the past to be considered suspended.
 
the bug has always been there, the change is that the test now reports it :-P
 
@DaveRandom Well, that looks suspicious, doesn't it?
 
so yeh I don't really know where to go with debugging this now
btw I'm 100% on that, I'd narrowed it down to this block of commits and that is right in the middle
 
@Trowski I don't understand, sorry. I think either case will make it "harder" for the cases where the other one was "nicer".
 
@LeviMorrison Defining the callback on construct gives the fiber purpose. Otherwise it's just an empty box.
It would be like creating a closure object and then injecting the code.
 
4:34 PM
Sometimes an empty box is useful, though.
Have you read Fibers under the magnifying glass, @Trowski?
3
 
@LeviMorrison Sometimes, though in this case there's no other attributes to set, so there's no difference in creating it beforehand or at the point where you know what code you'll execute in the fiber.
 
@Trowski Except having a handle to the object :)
From Raymond Chen:
> Fibers were the new hotness back in 1996, but the initial excitement was gradually met with the realizations that fibers are awful. Gor Nishanov has a fantastic write-up of the history of fibers and why they suck. Of particular note is that nearly all of the original proponents of fibers subsequently abandoned them.

Fibers make asynchronous functions appear to be synchronous. Depending on what color glasses you are wearing, this is either a cool trick or a hidden gotcha. Over time, the consensus of most of the computing community has settled on the side of “hidden gotcha”.
 
@LeviMorrison That's interesting, since Ruby has been successful with adding them, and Java's Loom project is working toward adding them to Java.
 
@LeviMorrison NGL those are articles that would have been great to have seen prior to the vote :(
I'll read it tho to get a more informed opinion
 
The more I play with it and start pulling it apart, the more I think I want this, just as an extension, not the core language. At least at the current state.
We can encourage distributions to bundle it, and in that sense it might even be able to be usable in 8.0 (not possible with only language integration).
 
4:46 PM
That article is a bit damming, but I think modern tools like Psalm and other static analysis can highlight where code is calling Fiber::suspend.
All the other articles I've read talk about fibers in languages like Ruby as fantastic concurrency tools.
 
Having not read it, but just looking at the header of the paper, isn't this specific to C/C++ as it's part of the WG21?
 
@Girgias Somewhat, yes, and talks about TLS being a pain.
 
Okay lol
 
Also, I need to think more about the differences between generators as coroutines and fibers.
 
Hopefully I didn't just make a fool of myself on the list...
 
4:53 PM
@Crell It's too long for me to read, honestly :)
It's not that I'm lazy, but it's just not a topic I care enough about to actually read something that long.
 
Good, then you won't think I'm an idiot for it.
 
kill it with fire, sooner the better, if I have to wait until 9 then so be it
 
I mean mbstring is also getting a bit of a rewamp
 
It is?
 
if people are actually butthurt about it you can write a conditional drop-in replacement in like 2 lines
 
4:56 PM
@Girgias For what it's worth, I did provide feedback during the discussion phase. I just didn't think to search for criticisms of fibers in other languages at that time.
 
@LeviMorrison I'm not denying the fact you provided feedback, which is more than some people did... but I'm just saying it would have been nice that you found this article earlier :p
 
@LeviMorrison Fibers were introduced to Ruby in 2007: infoq.com/news/2007/08/ruby-1-9-fibers
 
@Trowski Can it suspend from deep in the calls, or just at top level? Basically, is it more equivalent to a PHP generator or a fiber?
 
@LeviMorrison Deep in calls, see second paragraph: ruby-doc.org/core-3.0.0/Fiber.html
Ruby 3.0 added a scheduler as a way for otherwise blocking functions to hook into an async scheduler: ruby-doc.org/core-3.0.0/Fiber/SchedulerInterface.html
 
Ruby doesn't have start -- it just assume the closure will close over everything it needs to start?
 
5:03 PM
The first call to resume passes the argument to the closure.
resume also always takes a variadic list of args, since Ruby functions can return multiple values.
The behavior of resume being dependent on the state of the fiber was less intuitive in our opinion, which is why @kelunik and I decided to split the method.
That, and then start could provide a variadic list.
@LeviMorrison Generators sort of work like this. To get the first yielded value you have to call current(). If you call send() without calling current(), it executes to the first yield, then sends the value and executes to the second yield.
 
Can't resume be variadic?
 
@LeviMorrison It could, but does Fiber::suspend() then always return an array?
I based the API on Ruby 2.5.0, which is a bit simpler: ruby-doc.org/core-2.5.0/Fiber.html
3.0 was released only 3 months ago :)
 
Is the fiber RFC.... ironically becoming unweaved?
 
Levi's just getting caught up in the fibers :)
 
Ruby 3.0 appears to do what Swoole does (I think?), which is replace sleep and company with versions that yield to a scheduler?
 
5:11 PM
I'm just getting caught up on the chat log, but if the issue is pausing deep within the stack, the "what colour is your function" problem... is actually a solution?
 
puts "Go to sleep!"

Fiber.set_scheduler(MyScheduler.new)

Fiber.schedule do
  puts "Going to sleep"
  sleep(1)
  puts "I slept well"
end

puts "Wakey-wakey, sleepyhead"
> Go to sleep!
Going to sleep
Wakey-wakey, sleepyhead
...1 sec pause here...
I slept well
 
@LeviMorrison Essentially yes. That would be a scary first step for the PHP community I think.
I'd rather start with targeting fibers at async frameworks like Amp and React
 
I think part of the issue is that there's a bunch of different problems that all are solved with "async", but not in the same way.
 
Let's see what technologies can emerge to integrate it with synchronous code before we start thinking about changing traditionally blocking functions.
I think the success of Swoole shows that PHP coders are capable of using fibers for concurrency.
 
There's multiplexing requests (Amp, React, etc.), there's fully event-driven code (Swoole), and then there's "I have three blocks to render on screen that all involve DB queries, but I don't want them to all block each other, can I just run those in parallel and be done with it?"
 
5:15 PM
@Crell I suspect part 3 accounts for 95% of use cases.
 
@Crell I do think the opportunities there are limited, but it would be nice to give that a chance.
 
Swoole would be a bad solution for the latter. "What color is your function" makes the first a bad answer for the latter.
@MarkR I agree. Which is why I think a very low level solution for now is acceptable, because it's the one most likely to allow for that use case.
Swoole may be great for what it does, but for a CMS to render multiple parts of its page in parallel but otherwise not change the basic request/response cycle, it's major overkill. As are Amp and React in their current forms.
 
Exactly. Apps aren't going to suddenly be using concurrency everywhere and lead to disaster. Concurrency is going to be limited to only a small portion.
 
As is the way with concurrency, those that do use it are going to run into very, very hard to track down bugs.
 
> I have three blocks to render on screen that all involve DB queries, but I don't want them to all block each other, can I just run those in parallel and be done with it?
 
5:18 PM
Whether fibers as proposed are the ideal solution for that... I am way under-qualified to say. :-) I'd still prefer something a bit more robust in core. Basically, I want one layer up from the current RFC, where Amp, Swoole, and React are about 4 layers up.
 
Is there an API for this in any of the amphp projects?
I suppose no, because the DBs are blocking.
 
@MarkR Yeah, that's true. Hopefully our more modern testing practices can catch those. Otherwise things don't have to be concurrent.
@LeviMorrison Actually yes! There is a postgres and mysql async driver.
 
Links?
Also, does Sqlite have an async driver?
 
For any meaningful scheduler, does it always fall back to some kind of blocking operation to wait to see if it can continue?
 
5:20 PM
No async driver for Sqlite yet.
 
Need a modern replacement for PDO that does async; aiodb or something :)
 
@LeviMorrison The linked libraries share interfaces where possible, so yeah, I think that could be a possibility.
Postgres has notifications that mysql doesn't, so each extends a set of shared interfaces.
Oh, almost forgot, for the fiber version you'll want to look at the v2 branch for postgres and v3 for mysql.
 
I still think we're going to need to get Amp, React, and Guzzle in a room together over at FIG sooner rather than later to avoid people running 3 different schedulers on top of each other. "Don't standardize until the market has spoken" people be damned.
 
@Crell That's optimistic considering the Swoole maintainers' perceived distrust of php async
 
he didn't include Swoole...
 
5:27 PM
If they want to do their own thing I can't stop them. They should still be invited. But the other 3 projects have already shown they're interested in playing nice together in one way or another.

Also, Swoole is a vastly different project in practice so I don't know that it's even appropriate.
 
Well standardising and ignoring the biggest player in the room is going to be kinda arkward
 
I'd say React is the biggest player in the room, not Swoole.
 
@Crell @kelunik and I just had a Zoom meeting with the React folks. We'll be creating a shared event loop.
 
That could also work. :-)
 
@Crell Maybe, I don't have install numbers but Swoole has twice the stars and 3x the watchers and forks vs React on github
 
5:29 PM
AFAIK, those are the only two event loop implementations that have wide usage.
Guzzle isn't a general-purpose loop.
 
@MarkR I have never given GitHub likes any statistical value.
 
Talking of which.....one thing I do that apparently annoys people is I change my mind on stuff. I'm planning to invite the swoole people to this room so they can discuss stuff if they want to after the vote is closed (which should have been tomorrow). I mean, they probably won't but it's probably worth making the effort.
 
But my point remains: It would be great to have them included in any user space standard, but I don't know if they will be interested. They seem to be kinda like Wordpress so far in that regard...
Or maybe more Laravel.
 
They have no interest in a user-space loop.
 
@Trowski currently. At least not while they're dominant in the market they care about.
 
5:31 PM
Swoole provides one as part of their extension. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to intermix a user space loop and one provided by an extension ever.
 
From an ecosystem perspective, what I want to avoid is "this HTTP library uses a different fiber-wrapper than this MySQL library, so I can't (easily) use them both at the same time in my application." Because that's just just a sucky place to end up.

I am flexible about how we avoid that.
 
If a common loop interface can be agreed upon among the major players, perhaps better it goes into src rather than FIG (I know the original interface was removed from the RFC)
 
As I said, I'm flexible.
 
@Crell The event loop is what really matters. The fiber wrapper actually not so much.
Though we're looking at providing the fiber wrapper in that shared lib too so that doesn't become a problem.
If FIG then standardized that interface, it would help solidify it in the community. We can get there eventually.
 
See, I don't even understand the layers involved. :-) And I doubt most developers will either.
From previous discussions it sounds like there is room for multiple loop backends (ev, stream_select, etc.), so having a common interface seems like a good idea.
 
5:36 PM
@Crell See the Driver interface here and the 4 implementations + tracing decorator.
That will form the basis of the shared loop lib, with some potential interface changes. We didn't discuss exactly what. Also the static loop accessor.
 
Heh, so you're basically saying "user space can figure out the options and best practices" and "we're already building the library to provide all the options and define the best practices so no one else needs to bother" at the same time. :-)
 
Heh, yes, though it's much easier to iterate on that in user space.
That loop interface has existed for ~5 years now.
The promise interfaces differ greatly. I'm not sure what we're going to there.
IMO Amp's simple implementation makes more sense with fibers, since you'll rarely interact directly with the promise.
 
Well, I'm happy to Sponsor any bits you want to do via FIG, because avoiding fragmentation on this topic is extremely important.
 
6:01 PM
would the process be to have PDOStatement::executeAsync() or is that not even possible because this kind of API would already need to know about scheduling?
 
6:18 PM
@beberlei Yes, that's possible. Either with a built-in scheduler or a user-definable scheduler like Ruby recently added.
But that's not possible with the current fiber proposal, more would need to be added to core.
So for now you'll have to live with Amp\Postgres\Statement::execute().
 
what is missing in core?
 
@beberlei Core needs to be able to register for events like Loop::onReadable and Loop::onWritable
 
ok, so an interface for a scheduler is needed
 
Which was originally there but removed iirc?
 
@MarkR No, an interface was there, but not a scheduler to register events on.
@beberlei if we agree on an interface in core, we can just add the implementation too, IMO
 
6:27 PM
i guess another thing to borg from ruby?
 
@beberlei We can just implement Amp's loop in C. We might want to have onWritable and onReadable implemented differently, so it doesn't depend on streams.
if we have that, we can also introduce async/ await as keywords :)
 
6:44 PM
Actually it could probably all be just C API and then stream_await_readable, stream_await_writable, and delay, where delay(0) is basically Amp's defer.
 
@kelunik Would those take a callback, or?
 
@Trowski No, no callbacks, suspend the current fiber.
 
Using async for concurrency?
 
Yes. async would still need some callback to be able to build combinators in userland.
 
Which leads us down the rabbit hole of needing an awaitable in php-src.
 
6:59 PM
@Trowski fyi I have confirmed the issue goes back at least as far as github.com/amphp/ext-fiber/commit/…, which is the last commit which touched those 2 tests
I really am not sure where to go with it now, I'm not even convinced the problem is in the ext
 
@DaveRandom There were similar tests before that. I'm sure it's existed for years then.
 
possibly @cmb can go further with it but I have hit a competence wall I'm afraid, sorry
 
@LeviMorrison That paper came up on Twitter during the discussion period, but it's largely irrelevant to PHP IMO, as threads aren't an option and we use 1:n scheduling. /cc @Girgias
 
7:17 PM
@kelunik well, the major pain point is that fibers may contain blocking calls and thus block the execution. But that's the price I guess :-D
 
@bwoebi Yes, but no different with the current ecosystem.
 
yes
 
@bwoebi seems a pretty easy thing to add to static analysis tools......"does this code contain any blocking function"
 
@Danack fwrite() is blocking depending on whether the socket was made non-blocking … Good luck statically determining whether the appropriate flag had been set … or just solving the halting problem
works to a certain extent though, yeah
 
@bwoebi Live tracing tools can solve it.
 
7:21 PM
yes - Was just replying to static analysis
 
This paper was linked to by the first fiber RFC and makes a case for introducing coroutines in modern languages.
@bwoebi Psalm I think could address many of the issues raised – it can mark blocking calls in async, mark async calls in blocking code, and highlight potential state changes around a call that is async.
 
@Trowski yes, it should be able to
 
Using psalm seems like quite the fundamental shift. One would expect some kind of inbuilt instrumentation e.g. Fiber::requireAsync(() => $this->invoke(...)); that would either trigger a callback or throw on blocking calls, for example.
At least so far as the bundled extensions go
To clarify, I meant having to depend on it.
 
7:37 PM
"depend" is a bit strong
 
The same problems exist in the current version of Amp that uses stackless generators. It would just make reasoning about async code easier, using generators or fibers.
 
8:03 PM
@DaveRandom yes, btw, assuming we are out of lockdown, and Bristol hasn't been kicked out of the UK.
 
@Danack yeh, deffo only on the basis that all relevant public/personal safety requirements can be sensibly met by then
I am optimistic we might actually have meaningful vaccinations levels by then, less confident about this June
 
btw @DaveRandom the current position of twitch.tv/riotslivestream is I think right next to the possible job you mentioned.
 
@kelunik Huh, although Twitter discussion eye rolls
 
awesome
shame they don't own the conent
what the fuck is going on srsly
I wonder if any of these people know what they are angry about
do they think avon and somerset police ground officers wrote the bill themselves?
 
@DaveRandom no, but parts of the bill are in direct response to the statue of the slaver being torn down, particularly the proposed 10 years in jail.
 
8:17 PM
someone is gonna get killed and they are going to assert it is the fault of the fire department for not putting that out
@Danack also not the fault of those officers or even really the police, that was international news
I do not agree with the bill but those people belong in fucking jail
they are endangering a lot of people, wasting a lot of public money, and being cunts
"in jail" = "should be arrested right at this moment" btw, not actually put in prison for a long time (though prob a few of them)
yeh you're also there without a mask on
 
Alisapaymn ・ *General Issues ・ #80893
 
The same 2 guys had been trying to set something alight for about 3 hours I think now. Both of them have been on camera many, many times.
 
8:34 PM
Thus giving ammunition to the people who want to pass the bill in the first place. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
 
"hey, stop treating protests like riots!" - holds protest, dissolves into riot
there will be <50 people who have turned it into this, as well
also, I worry that this is how militarisation of the police happens :-/
 
9:07 PM
Is there an end-of-day update on Fibres? From what I read it kinda looks like you were leaning towards saying it needed a lot more than what has been proposed to get the job done properly?
 
9:27 PM
@MarkR Who's that question for? Fibers do need a scheduler to be useful, though that was no secret. Concurrency presents certain challenges to writing code. I'd like to see what solutions the community present.
 
@kelunik I was referring to this part of the conversation @Trowski
 
That was speculation on what the next step could be for core. Those things can be done in user space for now.
Baking an event loop into PHP and what the API could look like.
Ruby 3.0 added a feature where the engine can turn a blocking function like sleep and hand it off to a scheduler (i.e. event loop). That would also be a possibility. @bwoebi proposed such an API at one point.
 
@MarkR I think the term "get the job done properly" misses that this is non-trivial conceptually, built on many parts, some of which do the same job and aren't necessarily incompatible, this is just one of many primitive parts which does not "solve async" on its own but is also a long way from useless on its own
throw new OverlyVagueTerminologyException("the job");
 
@MarkR Christian Lück wrote an article about what Fibers will mean for async PHP that you may find interesting: clue.engineering/2021/fibers-in-php
 
I was wondering what you thought about that article.
 
9:44 PM
@cmb ext/session/tests/bug80889.phpt failing under --repeat 2
 
@Crell The article represents my feelings pretty well: Fibers are cool and open up many possibilities, but it's not all teddy bears and rainbows, there will be challenges.
 
10:03 PM
@DaveRandom Perhaps a less vague way of putting it would be asking if people could feel confidence that what is going to land in 8.1 provides them with all the tools they need, or if people are already thinking in their heads into 8.2, 8.3 etc to add features which would significantly simplify the process where people might think it better to wait it out until they're available (are you planning on marking fiber as experimental still?)
 
cmb
@NikiC Thanks! For some reason, the user handler is still set for the second run; also the original patch didn't cater to setting the handler to the functions; I shall have a closer look tomorrow.
 
@MarkR I think the "significant simplification" you speak of requires more radical changes than could possibly be landed at once. imho
and I also think the shape of the end result is not obvious, and will emerge from an incremental process
 

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