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12:03 AM
@toohonestforthissite What, me personally? No, still a member in spirit :=)
Ah, I see what you mean; I guess all large institutions suffer from a non-zero amount of corruption.
 
@halfer "non zero" ... Nicely said. British understatement, I presume :-)
 
@toohonestforthissite Yeah, we have the same thing here. PM and Home Secretary have more than embarrassed themselves, but the angry section of the press are complicit in propping them up. So the press are barely doing their job too.
@toohonestforthissite Heh, maybe {halo}
 
@halfer The press is another subject. As it appears worldwide. But why surprised, the "journalists" become more and more precarious, similar to the "academic" community ("" intended), so they are v ery careful who's b...ackside to kick and who's to ... well ... enter. And with the need for new messages (intentionally not saying information or news) every minute, they hardly have time to do research. But wait - wasn't theat why we pay for public boadcast? Yeah, good joke.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:03 AM
It's easier to ask questions in chat (as in harder to get downvotes and people complaining about the question doesn't make sense), but also harder to get an answer.
--
Searching around a little, I already found out what I wanted to ask https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/277508/are-what-is-this-thing-called-questions-on-topic-for-stack-overflow ...
Follow-up question: so asking "what is this thing called" okay, but "how do I implement this thing" too broad?
 
@user202729 This may not be surprising, but as usual the answer is, it depends. If you ask "How do I implement an operating system?" that would be too broad, but if you ask "how do I reverse a string in Rust?" that would be perfectly reasonable, and on-topic. When asking how to implement something, note that you should make it very clear exactly what you want implemented, and so you should provide examples of input and desired output.
 
@cigien: Has this changed recently? So far, if there is not even some reasonable code showing your own effort, the latter would be OT as well (but fixable opposite to the first).
This is (was?) meant to avoid the frequent "do my homework" questions.
 
@toohonestforthissite No, as far as I'm aware, lack of effort was never a reason to close a question, and it certainly isn't one currently. Even if a question asks to "do my homework", that's not sufficient cause to close it. Of course, the question may be too broad, unclear, etc. but that's pretty much orthogonal to whether the OP shows their own attempt at solving the problem.
The whole "homework questions need effort" bullet in the off-topic page in the help-center is a bit of a bug, and it will get cleaned up in 6-8. The moderator who has agreed to edit that page is currently busy with real life, and so they have not been able to get around to it.
 
2:23 AM
@cigien Lasck of effort definitively has been and the current reasons imply it still is. It would actually be a surprise if SO has changed to a homework community.
Sure, I did not mean asking for homework directly. I thought puting it into "" made that clear. Sorry if not.
I never undesrstodd the help-center page to be about asking explicitly. Of course a different reason would apply. "Do my homework" would be clearly to broad (aka "needs details" or "needs focus" as it already lacks the level of understanding of the requestor.
 
@toohonestforthissite I understand where you're coming from; a large number of users want to be able to close questions that don't show any effort on the OP's part. This appears to be reflected in many users bemoaning the loss of the "lacks minimal understanding"close reason. For good reasons, that close reason no longer exists.
A lot of users also believe that the "Lacks focus", and "Needs Details/Clarity" close reasons are now intended to cover "Lack of effort" (as a replacement for "lacks minimal understanding" perhaps), and they vote to close as such. (Although the numbers of users who admit to doing so has decreased considerably in the last 4-6 months).
While it's difficult to understand user's true motives, they're obliged to at least claim a standard close reason. I'm not an RO, so you should get confirmation from them, but if a cv-pls request contains only "No effort", or "Homework dump", the request is liable to get binned summarily.
 
@cigien Can you provide a link to meta about this change? And no, i do not consider the two reasons I mentioned as valid close-reasons for the reason you read from my text, but for exactly what I wrote and what is stated at the reasons. However, I very well understand such questions are a cheap way to get reps. That is a long time problem with all reward-based and (in a way) commercial communities.
 
2:38 AM
Things that some people don't know the terminology for tend to be complex and needs a whole book anyway.
...
Follow-up question: Would "what terms do I need to research to implement an operating system/compiler" on-topic? It's pretty close to [terminology].
... perhaps that question in particular won't be asked in practice, since if they know the correct term (compiler) then searching for that term will bring many search results.
 
@user202729 I think that would be too broad. Asking "what terms do I need to look up to do task X?" is quite different from "What does this specific term mean?". The latter would be fine, if it's a programming term.
 
@user202729 Hardly, but as said, it all depends. One problem would already be the abstraction level you want to discuss. You don't do yourself a favour if you blindly jump between architecture, implementation, environment, toolchain, etc. And, as that seems to really intereset you: tooling is also also a topic here, from build to code-generators for special things like register headers. It is not even clear what you mean with "OS". I leave more detaisl yo your imagination.
@user202729 You might be surprised what we had here already ... (ok, maybe not OS/compiler but quite comparable).
 
@toohonestforthissite I can't provide a link to a Meta about any change, because as I said, I don't believe policy has changed in this regard. However, here's a post (possibly among others) that actually brought to light some of these issues, and how users don't see eye to eye on them. There are several answers taking different views, and the comment threads are quite interesting.
This post is also somewhat related, since it seems there's a specific bullet point in the help-center that says certain kinds of questions require effort. That generated a lot of discussion as well, and comment threads that you might find interesting. (Disclaimer: I asked both those questions).
And it's interesting that you mention "do my homework" style questions that may not mention homework explicitly (if I understood what you said correctly). A question being homework is neither here nor there when it comes to whether a question should be closed, but users will see questions as being homework when they don't show effort, and that's an issue in my opinion.
 
@cigien "I don't believe policy has changed in this regard." So what are we talking about then? All your posts implied what I said was not valid close reason.
 
2:54 AM
@toohonestforthissite I'm responding to your first message to me, where you said: "Has this changed recently? So far, if there is not even some reasonable code showing your own effort, the latter would be OT as well (but fixable opposite to the first)." I'm saying nothing's changed; lack of effort does not, and never did, make a question off-topic, and the meta that I linked to covers aspects of that discussion.
 
@cigien And I clarified already before your response that I did not mean "homework" as sole reason. At least that could have been read from my post. Anyway, it's getting late here, no idea what's your TZ.
shrug
 
@toohonestforthissite Sure, if you think a question should be closed that also happens to be homework, or also happens to show no effort, that's perfectly fine, and you can add that information along with the original reason. BTW, since this is the first conversation we're having, I should point out that I'm perfectly comfortable with long pauses in between messages, i.e. take all the time you need to respond to any of my messages; it can be hours later, or days later, it's all good :)
 
@cigien Which "do my homework"-style question actually don't fall into these cathegories, too? I don't follow C++ tag, but all I've seen there, in C or Python tags which I used to follow or other tags I sometimes visit do in fact.
Well, I don't think it makes much sense to have this discussion continue for days. Btw. not sure if that became clear, but I'm also not really new here. Just took some time out (and still not sure I will show up frequently for several reasons - not related to this discussion, just to be clear:-)
 
3:11 AM
@toohonestforthissite That depends on what you mean by "do my homework" style questions. My guess is you're referring to "how do I do X" questions where the OP doesn't show any effort at solving the problem. Questions like that get asked all the time, and while a lot of them are unclear, and/or too broad, there are plenty of them that are on-topic. Of course, a lot of them are duplicates, but that just makes them on-topic questions that have been asked before.
 
It seems you joined SO after my hiatus started. Impressive the reps you got so far. But then C++ is by far more dynamic and with all the changes since C++11 and even more C++17 it is understandable there is more new and OT stuff.
 
Wait, what do you mean by "OT"? I've been assuming you mean off-topic.
 
@cigien No, I refer to exactly what I wrote. "Do my homework" is bascially just dumping the task and hoping for some rep-hunter (the more to the point other word was banned before you joined SO already) to answer. it was even used by studens of the same course to share their HW.
@cigien OTto:-) Kidding. sure off-topic. What else, I thought that's a common term at least in this chat, if not the whole site (web-forums?)?
 
@toohonestforthissite That's what I thought. Then I'm confused by your statement that because "C++ is dynamic ... there is more new and OT stuff". What's off-topic about the new C++ language versions and features they introduce?
 
@cigien Heck, yeah, the second condition should have been negated. My bad.
 
3:22 AM
@toohonestforthissite Ah, ok, no worries :) For a moment I thought you were bad mouthing C++, and as a fan, I would have to defend that ;)
@toohonestforthissite Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean; it's not nice when OPs just dump their homework on us, and perhaps cheat on their homework as well. I'm just pointing out that those questions are allowed; if the OP wants to dump their work and hope someone answers them, they're allowed to do that, so long as the question is on-topic. Perhaps you could downvote those posts and leave a comment suggesting to the OP that they should work on solving the problem themselves.
 
@cigien Well, I'm actually not a friend of C++, but live and let live. As long you don't try to talk us C users into C++, I'm all fine. And to instantly close that pandora's box: Keep in mind I'm an embedded Engineer and I normally do my homework (pun intended;-) why I do things one way, not the other. And generally , I do it [youtu.be/w019MzRosmk?t=52]
That does not necessarily imply it is different from others'
 
I have much the same feeling about C. So long as I'm not being forced to use it, it's all fine :)
 
3:38 AM
@cigien As I wrote, there are (allmost) always valid reasons to get them closed. I fact it is vital to get them closed asap to avoid exactly what you wrote: cheating. I've work far too long with people leting others do their job of fixing their crab. Sure, it pays my flat, but my overal health is priceless.
@cigien Let me guess: you are not an embedded developer, right? At least not as a job and and bare-metal.
 
@toohonestforthissite Correct. It's not even remotely what I do. I've heard C is preferable in those environments, and I don't doubt it.
 
I'm observing rust, but it'll take years until it's ripe for professional projects at that level I'm normally working.
Well, I'm the last to say C is really a good choice. But it is the best I see so far. FYI: I started HLL programming with Pascal and was not unhappy with it at that level back then. In the 80ies I threw away K&R-C after some trials and used Modula-2 which I really liked (more than Pascal actually), but at some point ISO-C became usable and Pascal/Modula or Oberon-2 (worth a look) are not an option on MCUs. Well, that about "instantly close that box".
If there is a language I really like, it's Python. I wouldn't even consider it an option for Embedded (including MicroPython) for performance, but also code quality checking, but on the PC it's perfect for me. Otoh, I wouldn't use it there for performance-critical stuff either.
 
3:57 AM
I'm pretty sure that this should be closed - I just don't know exactly why.
Can we give "no clue, just close it" as a cv-pls reason? :)
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I went with not reproducible since they clearly expect 8 to be greater than 8
 
4:13 AM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I was too late, but I'd used "needs details". Took me a bit to understand the behaviour is exactly as expected, so I don't understand what's the problem.
Is this even about programming?
Btw. what is this "reinstate monica" thing about? who the f** is alice monica?
 
4:48 AM
@toohonestforthissite Monica was a mod that SE ejected without following their own process over a misunderstanding, and then slandered in the press.
 
@khelwood That sounds really heavy. You have any link I can get the details? (sorry, have been away from SO for quite some time)
 
5:08 AM
@khelwood Thanks for the link. That is quite a list of resignations et al. So it started with genderism. I thought that was more a German problem, but good to hear there there is no climate change, covid, etc. But agreed, however one sees the initial reason (and we don't know enough about those), it seems how this has been handled is indeed more than fishy (sorry, I'm not that good in English to use a possibly more suitable term)
 
5:19 AM
So I've come here because mods watch this line. This user needs help using the site. I'm not gonna press flag and hurt the user for no good reason. stackoverflow.com/a/66513431/14768
 
@Joshua NAA flag would not hurt the user
 
But it is an answer. The only applicable flag is custom.
 
No, it is NAA. Duplicates of other answers are NAAs.
 
Ah
 
@Yatin Since when?
 
5:28 AM
Too late. I flagged.
 
It is a comment
 
@Joshua You can retract your flag.
... if you want to.
 
@AdrianMole So... mod flag?
 
I wouldn't, except for cases of plagiarism (which this isn't). Comment and downvote.
 
It doesn't answer the question, so it is not an answer. It is just a comment on an answer
 
5:31 AM
> duplicate answers. Flag these, if they copy existing answers verbatim or just repeat some point of a long-existing answer without adding anything worthwhile to it. The latter almost only applies to short answers that show an egregious lack of awareness of previous answers. Longer answers usually offer a different explanation or presentation of the facts that is worthwhile.
 
Hmmm. Guess I've been doing it wrong, then. ;(
 
Np :)
 
But people in review queues dont check for duplicate answers.
also
Mar 2 at 13:55, by Machavity
@SurajRao Might not be plagiarism (the answer is irreducibly simple), but it's a late duplicate answer. You can mod flag those
 
this one isn't duplicate answer of accepted answer?
 
Good reviewers check for duplicate answers.
4
 
5:37 AM
@Droid looks like it ended up copying the original answer in an attempt to thank them
 
It is just an upvote turned into an answer.
 
Yeah - that one is NAA (it's a "Thanks" reply).
 
@SurajRao yes, its a dup, I flagged it
 
@Joshua Low quality could also work imo. It just gives the line without context like where to put it or why this would work.
 
6:00 AM
This kind of NAA happen because the most of the new users have impression/think/understood that SO is a forum. Perhaps it is not very clearly stated that it is not. IMHO
 
Can moderators handle NAA outside the queue?
 
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
9:31 AM
 
9:42 AM
@Yatin No, no they're not NAA. They can be custom flagged, but NAA is likely to be declined. Named flags should qualify for that type of flag based on nothing other than just the post you are flagging and should obviously have the flag apply.
@Yatin This did not reflect how NAA flags would actually be handled. I've edited it.
@Yatin If the post is deleted by a moderator or by others, then the NAA flag is marked helpful, so, yes, NAA flags can be handled outside of the moderator flag dashboard. Actually, any flag can be handled from the question page containing the post or comment. The flags on the posts and comments are displayed to and are actionable by moderators when viewing question pages, but not review queue pages.
 
10:01 AM
 
@Makyen So... this should be status complete right?: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/355230/11573842 Can I edit a question's tags to include status-complete or is it just something only moderators are allowed to do?
@Makyen Oh ok
@Makyen Ah nice :D
^ someone translated for OP, I rolled back that edit.
 
10:27 AM
@Yatin No. That question's specifically asking about declining flags from the question page. Declining NAA/VLQ flags which have not yet exceeded their time in the normal review queues isn't possible from the question page (without a userscript). It is, however, possible from the mod dashboard to bypass that time in the normal review queues for NAA and VLQ flags displayed in the moderator dashboard (i.e. from the mod dashboard we can choose to display all NAA/VLQ flags in the dashboard).
 
10:38 AM
Oh ok
 
Morning all. Any thoughts on what to do with this? stackoverflow.com/questions/66515556/extortion-by-user-agents
 
@Yatin Yep. I'd already flagged that, too
 
10:54 AM
is this spam?
 
Not sure tbh @Droid I have asked at Charcoal too. Let's see if they post any more of these.
 
11:10 AM
waffles
 
I am so sorry :(
 
np. have a waffle
 
Sometimes google translate just doesn't work :(
 
11:27 AM
^ also the other answer is the duplicate of the accepted answer 🤦‍♂️
 
11:40 AM
@Yatin Hahaha... I don't speak catalan :D The reality is not that interesting: the chat was open when I tried to undust my keyboard (I have an AZERTY)
 
xD
 
12:15 PM
Is this about general computing hardware and software? (NATO)
 
@Shree I do not see how this is about programming (ethereum tag wiki excerpt even mentions it: "Questions should relate to programming."), so to me it also looks off-topic (it's also not really a programming tool they're using). But that's just my humble opinion.
 
@JeanneDark thanks I need a second opinion before CV.
 
1:14 PM
@AnnZen So? It is closed... You cv-pls-ed it. It shouldn't be reopened just to be closed again
 
@YagizDegirmenci that is creative tag formatting, but not quite right ;) see socvr.org/…
@AnnZen just leave a comment if you feel the OP needs more guidance, we're not going to organize a re-open / re-close party and spending precious votes for the same end result.
 
@Tomerikoo Okay, but once a user in here said a post should be reopened if closed with the wrong reason...
 
@AnnZen Oh, I never saw that. From various meta discussions I'm pretty sure the consensus is that once a question that should be closed is closed - the reason is less important. As rene said, if you feel that the close notice doesn't provide accurate information to the OP you can add a comment
 
I think this one should be closed- stackoverflow.com/questions/66513814/…
The code isn't even valid python
 
@Tomerikoo ohk, thanks
 
1:36 PM
^was there any activity there? looks old
 
2:15 PM
is this closeworthy?
@mck cc @rene this one needs to be removed. I don't see any recent activity.
 
@SurajRao smells a lot like customer support to me
@mck our recent activity requirement is mentioned in the FAQ under #11: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-cv-pls-not-a-habit
 
2:50 PM
@a121 You forgot the action tag
 
@a121 Please read the FAQ at socvr.org to see how requests should be posted
 
@Tomerikoo @toohonestforthissite thanks for letting me know, will check it out.
 
@a121 for close request it's [tag:cv-pls], for other tags similar
 
@toohonestforthissite okay, thx
 
3:20 PM
please delete chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/51733693#51733693, OP clarified the question, it is no longer opinion-based.
 
3:34 PM
@Turing85 It's preferable to ping the most recent RO (@rene in this case), otherwise they might not notice the message asking for the request to be binned.
 
@cigien noted.
 
@rene, you might want to bin this request, too, as discussed or the author should confirm?
 
3:51 PM
Who needs a JVM when we have rene to collect our garbage?
5
 
@AdrianMole Why not just ... not produce garbage? You know, when you're done using a variable, destroy it immediately instead of letting it lay around?
 
Why ask me? I'm a C and C++ programmer!
 
I was going to suggest Rust
 
Who is Rust, an RO?
 
Rust never Sleeps.
 
@JohnDvorak I know that well ;)
 
4:33 PM
This is a link only answer, but I think the answer is fine according to the question (question should be closed, not the answer), What do you think?
 
@Droid The answer cannot be closed ;), no need to flag it either as the question is off-topic. CVed as off-site resource request
 
@Double-expresso thank you, I think so :)
 
@Droid That's correct; link-only answers are perfectly fine when the question asks for that. That does mean the question is almost certainly off-topic.
 
4:49 PM
@cigien thanks
 
 
5:10 PM
@toohonestforthissite That's not really a typo. The OP is just shadowing a type with a variable. It's probably a duplicate of an existing target.
 
@cigien It clearly is. He is not even using that variable in the code. So, if altering just that one character fixes that problem
Shadowing often results from such typos (and nonsense renaming)
Shadowing here is just the result from the typo apparently as OP is hardly aware of this mechanism.
 
@toohonestforthissite Ok, I see your point, and it's not a particularly useful question, so no harm in closing it. However, in general, if the question arises from a typo that people could make, it's useful to keep it around (assuming it's not a duplicate). And whether the OP is aware of the mechanism or not is not relevant really.
 
@toohonestforthissite The question has removed by its author
 
5:36 PM
@cigien So what you're effectively saying is that the "typo" close reason is not to be used? Nope, I strongly disagree with that attitude. Expecially typo questions are normally not useful for future readers. And those ar the reason we keep questions and answers, not the original author.
Feel free to continue this on meta, though.
 
What do these two checkboxes of the cv-pls userscript mean? What's "SD"? SmokeDetector? And "NATO"?
 
@toohonestforthissite No, that's not what I'm saying. Typos are usually not useful, and should be closed. However, I'm talking about some typos that are useful, as they are not obvious, and are made by many programmers. Those are reasonable, and I think can be kept open and answered.
@toohonestforthissite Thank you, I''l make sure to do that if I feel it's necessary and/or useful to do so.
@MarcoBonelli 1) Yes, SD means it was a post that was reported by Smoke Detector. It's nice to check that box when applicable, since those requests are not subject to the "reasonable number" of requests limits. 2) NATO means "New answer to old question". This is also useful to check when the post itself is older than 6 months, but has some activity, such as a new answer to it that was posted in the last 6 months.
 
@cigien thanks!
 
np
 
6:47 PM
(I flagged the wrong post, following the wrong link from SOBotics ... ooops!)
^ That's the one ... Trolling.
 
@AdrianMole There are no accidents -- Master Oogway :p
 
No accidents ... but blunders by the bucket-load! ;-)
 
@AdrianMole But happy little accidents are desired!
 
7:24 PM
@Yatin found in the H&I queue btw
 
 
8:23 PM
Might be a silly question but it's bugging me for a few days. Deleted questions are still viewable by 10k+ users. That means they still actually exist in SE's database. At some point do questions really get deleted or the amount of data just grows indefinitely with every single question posted?
 
@Tomerikoo it is never deleted.
Postid = 1 still exists in the db
 
@rene As a master of SEDE, is it possible to see the amount of data currently in the servers?
 
dbc
(Goes to check) Where, oh where, did the Joel Data go? I'm pining for years of .NET knowledge! Um what?
 
@Tomerikoo not on production ofc but I can figure that out for all SEDE stuff. Give me a few minutes.
 
@dbc LOL (undel-pls)
 
8:28 PM
@Tomerikoo here is overall sizing from 2016: nickcraver.com/blog/2016/03/29/…
 
8:40 PM
@Tomerikoo 110,393,472 * 8kb second resultset.
 
@rene According to my calculations, is that ~883GB? Sounds..... little?
 
@Tomerikoo I think they have a compression algorithm to deal with duplicated data. There's lots of that! :-)
 
Well, production has also all revisions (PostHistory for example) and logging and backups from imgur. So production data is some extra GB.
 
@rene thanks for your precious time ^_^
@AdrianMole Duplicated data? Here? Nah.... ;)
 
I mean, most of the content is text and metadata, so I think couple of gigs is enough to store all the text.
 
8:49 PM
New slogan: Delete Dupes and Save our Servers
 
@Braiam Yeah makes sense. But going 12 years back, hundreds (thousands?) of questions daily? I guess I was expecting something between 6-8 Gazilion terra bytes
 
BTW, I think that SEDE doesn't include deleted, but deleted post are like, what, 10% of all content?
 
@Braiam correct. Also missing is logging, redis cache, backups etc.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:44 PM
Heck, I shouldn't have come back. Why do i bother about velphamps at all who are miffed when they are told friendly and with directions we cannot explain the world to them?
 
Downvote and move on
 
@Dharman Problem is I sometimes pity them and try to help. Yeah, I'm getting old, years ago people were thankful to get help, even if it impies they need to learn on their own instead of spoon-feeding.
 
This site isn't designed to handle help vampires. Don't waste your health on them. Find good questions to answer, or write your own questions.
 
@Dharman The problem with the better of them is they first look like normal people. Expecially at that time of the day. And those being native speakers often learned their lessons how to twist words which cannot be defied by those not familiar with these tricks.
Anyway, I'll leave. See you someday (maybe), folks! Heads up from me if not from management!
@πάνταῥεῖ You know how to contact me - feel free :-)
 
11:58 PM
@KenWhite The link appears to be broken. There's an extra ) in there I think.
 
Heck, how can I really logout??
 
@cigien Oops! Thanks. The correct link is stackoverflow.com/q/66522719/62576
 

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