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10:00 PM
@Alf huh? It works fine at work. Not that it looks good, but it works.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I noticed they changed it in Win7. I didn't care though.
 
sbi
@Mysticial My father used to be a designer. He would rag graphics around on the screen all day, using the mouse. So he did everything with the mouse. I am a programmer. I think about algorithms, and then I type them into the machine all day, using my keyboard. I do use the mouse, but I hate to take my hands of the keyboard when I am typing some algorithm, find the mouse underneath some books and printouts, just to do a right-click.
 
You can revert it to "old style" on Win 7
There's a registry key for it
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Works fine on this machine. Could it be that someone confused it with Win+Tab?
 
Dont most windows keyboards have a key for the context menu so you don't need right click?
 
10:02 PM
Shift-F10
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik Yeah, those annoying keys, how I hate them. F10 is the menu, Shift+F10 is the context menu.
 
@sbi ah... I dunno, I'm perfectly comfortable with moving my hand to and from the keyboard.
 
@sbi no, it's just broken. for example, if you try to stop, then it starts DOING things. and it manages to often put the display under existing windows.
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf No. I can hit Tab as often as I want, and then hit Esc and it will be gone.
 
I use a Mac. Everything is in the menu bar and if you don't know a shortcut, hit Shift+Option+/ and type (part of) the text on the menu item.
 
10:03 PM
I'm not particularly picky with keyboards. Just as long as it's not too easy to accidentally hit the Windows button.
 
@Mystical remap it to control or alt.
 
@sbi well what i can say. you don't see anything wrong. i do.
 
CTRL (crouch) is right next to the Windows button. Depending on the spacing of the keyboard, I often hit it accidentally.
 
I also found that remapping caps lock to control really helps.
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Maybe I did revert it to old style, as @Mehrdad said? Where do I do that, @Mehrdad?
 
10:04 PM
it worked in windows xp
 
Remapping keys in Windows is a pain, though. Just like about anything but typing in VS.
 
@RadekSlupik ALT is chat. I was pretty close to remapping it. Then that keyboard broke down, and a got a new one that didn't have the problem.
 
@sbi: Let me find it, 1 sec
I think it's that one.
 
But in any case, the most used keys on my keyboard are W, A, S, and D. And occasionally R.
 
sbi
@Mehrdad Ah, now I know what @Cheersandhth.-Alf is talking about.
 
10:06 PM
> I tend to have 20 or so windows open at one time
What the fuck.
 
@RadekSlupik That's nothing. I've gone to 50+ before.
 
I cannot stand having more than five windows open at a time.
Everything becomes so cluttered.
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf, it's just a bigger preview, and if you stop, it highlights the window you're at, and fades out the others. It will take you a few days to get used to it, but then you won't even notice it's different anymore.
 
@Mystical WHY
If you aren't doing 50 things at once, y u have 50 windows open at once.
 
I'm just like @RadekSlupik in that respect
 
10:08 PM
Oh thanks! Now it works! Albeit with VERY SMALL ICONS...
 
Ell
I prefer small number of windows
 
@Mysticial I can't afford that amount of time, really
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Glad it worked
 
@RadekSlupik In the short term (within an hour), I rarely do more than 10 things at once. But longer term (days), I'll easily be doing 20+ things at once.
 
Hi Guys, Does heap corruption occur if "vector deleting destructor" is called instead of "scalar deleting destructor"
 
10:09 PM
I always have one editor window (except when I need two), one or two terminals and a web browser, and sometimes a chat application. That's all.
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik I am having 19 Windows at the taskbar right now. Add to that the stuff that only shows up in the tray (Skype, TotalCommander etc.). When I am at work, I often have two or three VS instances running at the same time, some TSVN diff windows, shells,... — IWO, I bet I am usually at around 30 windows.
 
I mean, now I can hold down Alt and take a little pause without that thingy starting to screw up, Halleluja!
 
@Gopikanna it can
 
Mail is full screen on a separate desktop. I can swipe to it using my mouse or keyboard, so it doesn't irritate me.
 
Right now, I have 20 tabs over 3 windows on my main machine. But I'm also remotely logged into 3 more machines that have another 30 tabs total.
 
10:10 PM
@Gopikanna UB
 
@Gopikanna: It's undefined. Maybe.
 
uhm... browser, totalcommander, one or two tortoisehg, one or three MSVS, notepad++, icq, skype, some consoles, etc.... usually I have about 10 windows opened
 
sbi
57
A: Is delete[] equal to delete?

sbiWhether this leads to a memory leak, wipes your hard disk, gets you pregnant, makes nasty Nasal Demons chasing you around your apartment, or lets everything work fine with no apparent problems, is undefined. It might be this way with one compiler, and change with another, change with a new compil...

 
... I usually have like 3 windows open
 
I have a base class with virtual destructor. When I call delete on the subclass, "scalar del destruct" gets called, but it inturn calls "vector del destruct" of base class
 
10:11 PM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Pauses are for the weak :)
 
i think instead of c++ everybody should do web design. i started yesterday with "hello world" and now i've progressed to, uh, i don't know. katika-prototyp.appspot.com
 
TIL: Windows users are crazy.
 
eventhough delete [] is not used for destruction
 
TIL: Some fool stars random messages all the time.
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik I avoid booting my machine as much as possible, So I just leave lots of stuff open all the time. Beats the shit out of waiting for it to load. Also, 7 of my 19 open windows are FF windows, and I often have a three-digit number of tabs open. :)
 
10:13 PM
@RadekSlupik Researchers had established that since .. around 1981
 
@sbi oh yeah I forgot. :P Windows apps usually terminate after closing the last window.
@sehe so? Did I ever claim otherwise?
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik Not if they're proper MDI apps. But unfortunately this is rare nowadays, with even Office gone crazy bowing to stupid secretarys' demands.
 
@RadekSlupik You said you learned that today...
 
Only on OSX apps don't terminate when you close last window.
Which is entirely silly.
 
sbi
Android.
 
10:15 PM
It makes no sense that I cannot close browser window while downloading a file.
 
@RadekSlupik: It does to me...
 
@MooingDuck I have a base class with virtual destructor. When I call delete on the subclass, "scalar del destruct" gets called, but it inturn calls "vector del destruct" of base class
 
@RadekSlupik why can't yo
 
@Alf it will stop the download because the app will terminate.
 
@RadekSlupik: Although if they wanted to, they could've just put a notification icon instead. Nothing fundamentally prevents that..
 
10:16 PM
With a warning, perhaps.
 
@RadekSlupik well i don't think e.g. firefox terminates. you just have to keep the download window.
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik I can — except for the download progress window, of course. But why would I?
 
@Mehrdad but they don't.
@sbi because too many windows is annoying if you don't use them.
 
@RadekSlupik: Yeah, maybe file a bug in Chrome :)
@RadekSlupik: Or a feature request.
 
Ell
I hate how you can't get private browse/incognito tabs
and you have to have windows
 
10:17 PM
^+1
 
@Ell do you use a shared pc?
No? No need for incognito.
 
Ell
yerp
 
Yes? You are screwed anyway.
 
sbi
@RadekSlupik A minimized window takes up a piece of the taskbar. What's annoying about that? Also, I'd have to bring the taskbar into view in order to be annoyed about that.
 
Ell
I like windows 7 taskbar mostly
how they take up little horizontal tabs
 
10:18 PM
I prefer the Dock.
 
Ell
I like unity too
 
love win7 taskbar
 
Ew Unity
 
But the Windows 7 task bar is not that bad.
 
it really scales so much better than the XP/Vista style bar
 
Ell
10:19 PM
the doc/unity/win7 taskbar are very similar to me
 
It's better than XP’s, which was horrible.
 
@Ell I prefer the Vista one actually. When you run of space on the taskbar, Win7 gives you this scroll arrow. Whereas Vista shrinks the icon.
I hate having to scroll.
 
the probability of running out of space in Win7 is vastly less
 
Ell
ahh I have never ran out of space, see
 
and no pinning programs on Vista
 
10:20 PM
@Ell In Vista, I'd typically have 3 columns of tabs on the vertical taskbar.
 
Ell
one thing I would wish was standard though, was one taskbar per window
 
@Mysticial: How big is your monitor?
 
anyone know anything about the 10,000 GDI limit on Windows 7?
 
I'll be getting a new computer this Friday.
 
Ell
as opposed to one for primary and no others
 
10:20 PM
@carleeto: What about it?
 
@Me
 
Ell
@carleeto 10,000 GDI context limit?
 
@Mehrdad I was using 1680 x 1050 when I had Vista.
 
Yeah.
 
The use a vertical taskbar because I can fit more on the screen.
 
10:21 PM
aparently, the registry setting that is used to control it no longer works
 
@Mysticial: Huh, I have 1600x900 (laptop), maybe I should give vertical a try
 
Why 10.000? Why not say infinity?
 
it can be a maximum of 65535
Don't know why
 
@carleeto: Has to do with 16-bit compatibility I think
 
Probably written by a moron who used C-array instead of std::vector.
 
10:22 PM
lol
 
@carleeto: On 32-bit Windows handles have only 16 significant bits
 
true. I suspected as such
 
@RadekSlupik unlikely, even MS can't be that dumb.
 
Might be a question for the Old new thing
 
@carleeto: On 64-bit they only have 32 significant bits
 
10:22 PM
@Mooing look at their terminal/orwhateveritiscalledonwindows.
 
@carleeto: I answered something similar here, but some fool downvoted me for no reason: superuser.com/a/380462/59271 (see the link to MSDN)
 
no, it's intentional.
a HANDLE is an index into an array of pointers- it's not an actual pointer.
it gives much greater protection/security if you use bad HANDLEs and other such things.
 
cheers
 
but, of course, that array can only be fixed size
 
Why do they need an index of those things?
 
10:24 PM
@DeadMG: That has nothing to do with the 16-bit limit. It's a compatibility thing, nothing to do with fixed-sizes.
 
@RadekSlupik Well, you can't give out a kernel-mode pointer to a user-mode program.
 
@RadekSlupik: To enforce abstraction and to help security
 
for one, the kernel might be 64bit and the user program 32bit
 
@DeadMG You can do the reverse.
Oh yeah.
 
@DeadMG: Well, there's NtQuerySystemInformation that gives you kernel-mode pointers in user-mode :P
but it's ugly.
 
10:25 PM
And… what does the kernel have to do with the window manager?
 
also, it means they can guarantee no bad HANDLE acceses
 
when you write programs do you prefer
`int main()
{

}`


OR

`int main(){


}`
 
pointer-to-pointer is pretty common for that sort of thing
 
@Mohammed neither.
 
@RadekSlupik Then what do you do?
 
10:26 PM
main = return ()
 
int main() {
    // the only sane bracing style
}
 
@RadekSlupik: That style is gross :P
 
You are gross.
 
:(
int main()
{
}
 
I prefer main = std::bind(std::exit, 0);
 
10:27 PM
:)
 
@RadekSlupik I started out using that style, but then switched to the one true brace style.
 
@RadekSlupik: cries
 
@Mehrdad I use 1080p now. But yeah, you can fit a lot more shit on a vertical taskbar.
 
I find { on new line unreadable. So many empty lines.
 
@Mysticial: Mm interesting, I'll try it out :)
 
10:28 PM
@Mehrdad pwnd
 
@RadekSlupik: Me, just the opposite
:\
 
It's probably most important to me since I'm a mouse person.
 
no program pinning = fail
 
People who do { on a new line in C-style languages, unless those languages have a standard style guide and it says otherwise, will go to developer hell.
 
program pinning?
 
10:29 PM
@Mysticial It's where a program is always on your taskbar, open or not.
and if it's not open, you click the icon to run it.
 
@RadekSlupik: Where did you learn that lol
 
so it's very "Click to receive program"
 
@DeadMG Firefox is pinned.
 
@Mehrdad my eyes.
 
@Mehrdad It's not "learned", it's an opiniion.
 
10:30 PM
it's bullshit.
 
@Chimera: Oh, I thought he got a message from the Developer God
 
agreed.
 
@Chimera no it is a fact, because it is my opinion.
 
@Mehrdad I wouldn't believe that Developer God then. :-)
@RadekSlupik heh
 
10:31 PM
I don't see the immediate need
 
lol
 
If my code has a syntax error, the standard committee will simply change the standard.
 
> Taking a very long, possibly permanent, break from the entire Stack Exchange hierarchy. G'bye.
 
@RadekSlupik: I think you're confusing yourself with Jon Skeet
 
Gee. How original
 
10:32 PM
I am Jon Skeet. :P
 
@RadekSlupik: Only Jon Skeet is Jon Skeet :P
 
Also, as you all know me, 99% of my messages are jokes.
 
@RadekSlupik: I couldn't tell
 
Wouldn't Eric Lippert actually have the power to do that? (for C#)
 
@Mehrdad loungenoob
:P
 
10:33 PM
@RadekSlupik: cry
 
YES :D
 
=(
Btw, kinda random... but does this look interesting to anyone? gist.github.com/c2482dd3adedf9f97e19
 
People crying and dying!
 
Hey guys
 
hmm, does anyone here know their way around D3D9/10/11 instancing?
 
10:34 PM
Does Eclipse support C++11?
 
@JosephPotts Eclipse is an IDE, not a compiler.
 
“Does Eclipse…” no.
 
Does the compiler of Eclipse support C++11?
 
@melak47: Only a very very tiny bit... what's your question?
 
@Mooing so? It still does syntax highlighting, code completion and (maybe) live diagnostics.
 
10:36 PM
@JosephPotts: Depends on what compiler you use with it, but GCC 4.7.0 does
 
For that, it has to support C++11.
 
Hm okay ty
 
@RadekSlupik no, its parser has to support C++11.
 
its*
 
@Mehrdad second time today in this room :(
 
10:36 PM
@MooingDuck: lol
 
@Mooing the parser is part of the IDE.
 
@Mehrdad well, there seem to be several ways to store the actual data you want to use for instancing. if you put it in an instance buffer, doesn't it get kind of messy with the vertex layout description?
 
@JosephPotts eclipse.org/downloads/moreinfo/c.php "Eclipse IDE for C/C++ Developers does not contain a compiler or debugger; if your system does not have one, you need to download and install one. Please see the "Before you begin" section of the C/C++ Development User Guide in the Help for more information (Click here for more information about C/C++ compilers and tools)."
@RadekSlupik is it? I assumed it used gcc or whatever
 
clang doesn't support C++11! Its parser, lexer and semantical analyzer do!
 
@melak47 inb4 Singletons!
 
10:37 PM
@RadekSlupik clang contains those things. I did not believe Eclipse contained a parser.
 
@melak47: Er... what "vertex" are you referring to?
 
@sehe wha?
 
@MooingDuck You'll be surprised at how often I make that mistake. Even though I'm a native speaker, the problem is muscle memory. I find myself automatically typing "it's" instead of "its".
 
@Mehrdad well, if you want to have per instance data elements, you have to put them in your vertex layout description
 
10:38 PM
Same applies to "you're" and "your".
 
@melak47: I think you're either pinging the wrong person, or I don't know what you're talking about :(
 
Fuck single(ton)s.
 
@RadekSlupik the linked eclipse page backs up your claim btw. "Improved editing support, with semantic highlighting."
 
@melak47: Is this related to "deck"?
 
@Mysticial I get that one at least :(
 
10:39 PM
@Mehrdad deck? wha?
 
@Mehrdad you said you knew about D3D9, so he asked you questions
 
Ohh lol
 
another kind of D3D? :P
 
when i do int =char why does the int now have the ASCII code of the char
 
Sorry, I got confused... I thought by "instancing" you meant "creating instances of D3D objects"
 
10:40 PM
@MooingDuck That's the problem when you're subconsciously translating sound directly to hand muscle memory.
 
@melak47 I'm guessing Mehrdad knows less about D3D9 than you do
 
like D3DCreateXYZ
 
OpenGL is superior.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil because that's how C++ defined the conversion
 
@Mehrdad ah, no geometry instancing :)
 
10:40 PM
@melak47: Nope, I don't know, sorry :(
 
@MooingDuck should a char be considered numeric?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Hell no
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil and it only has the ASCII code on your machine. On other machines, it might not be ASCII
@MohamedAhmedNabil ish. Kinda. partially. yes.
 
@Mehrdad crap. the gamedev channel is a desert.
 
@Mohamed chars are integral.
 
10:41 PM
@melak47: :(
 
i see chars as numbers that are interpreted differently
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil correct. Sometimes those values are ASCII
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Relevant: stackoverflow.com/questions/12024228/…
 
I see chars as bytes and it should have been called byte instead of char.
 
10:42 PM
@Mehrdad cant understand a word there
 
@RadekSlupik I agree, but in this context, you're merely confusing him
 
@RadekSlupik if i do char x = 'd' is the same as saying char x = 100
@RadekSlupik Yea you are confusing me :P
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Basically, no, 'char' shouldn't be just seen as "a number interpreted as a character". You're supposed to use char_traits::assign for 'char', not "="... it's meant to be looked at differently.
 
@Mooing no wait. Char must be called char since the signedness is ID.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil only if your target machine is ASCII. It might not be, so don't do that.
 
10:43 PM
Byte should be unsigned IMO.
 
On the other hand, 'signed char' and 'unsigned char' should be regarded as number
 
@RadekSlupik true
 
Isnt all data numeric
???
 
using byte = unsigned char;
@Mohammed no. Pointers are not, for example.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil not really, no. They all have numbers underneath, but what they represent is not numeric
 
10:44 PM
guys go easy on me
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Er, you asked if "char" should be regarded as non-numeric...
 
@MooingDuck i know but its all numbers
 
Objects of class types can be, for example a bigint class.
Numerical or not is about semantics of types.
 
@Mehrdad i know it shouldnt be used as a number
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Pointers in x86 can be "segmented". They might be 2 numbers instead of 1, so no, it's not all just a number, it can be more, and "different" pointers can be the same thing :)
 
10:45 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil it's numbers underneath. But you shouldn't care what's underneath. It represents a letter and should be treated as such.
 
I mean that a char is basically a number, but its type makes it go to the ASCII code table and print the charecter isntead of the number
right?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil a char is a letter. It has a number underneath, which might or might not be ASCII, but you should ignore those details
 
Doesn't have to be ASCII, AFAIK.
 
EBCDIC
 
Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code (EBCDIC) is an 8-bit character encoding used mainly on IBM mainframe and IBM midrange computer operating systems. EBCDIC descended from the code used with punched cards and the corresponding six bit binary-coded decimal code used with most of IBM's computer peripherals of the late 1950s and early 1960s. It is also employed on various non-IBM platforms such as Fujitsu-Siemens' BS2000/OSD, HP MPE/iX, and Unisys MCP. History EBCDIC () was devised in 1963 and 1964 by IBM and was announced with the release of the IBM System/360 line of mainf...
 
10:46 PM
Im just talking technicallly here
it shouldnt be taken as a number
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: Right.
 
Also I want strong typedef so I can do using byte = unsigned char; :<
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil right
 
But it is stored as a number and it translates to a char when i output it
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil it was already a char, but yes
 
10:47 PM
so assigning a number to it is the same, it will translate when outputed
 
translates to a letter
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil well yes, but you don't know what letters are what numbers, so don't do that.
 
eq-
Perhaps it's stored as a char and (transparently) converted to number when you try to look at it?
 
@eq- what are you talking about?
 
i mean a number like this =100 not like this ='100'
 
10:49 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil but there's no (easy) way to know which number is which letter.
 
@MooingDuck ASCII table i checked
 
@Mohamed the standard doesn't guarantee ASCII.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil The IBM System/360 computer does not have an ASCII table.
 
It could be any encoding, as long as the documentation of the implementation documents which one it is.
 
@RadekSlupik Though you can safely assume that pretty much everything in production now will be ASCII.
 
10:50 PM
Jup. :P
 
@MooingDuck Wha?? When i program in C++ chars are stored as ASCII
 
Or UTF-8 for u"u string literals".
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil not if your program is compiled for a the IBM System/360. It's only ASCII on your computer.
 
@Mohamed on your machine.
With your compiler.
 
Clarity please :D
 
10:51 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil No, they are stored as numbers and encoded depending upon system.
 
Im using VC++ 2010
 
The compiler may choose the encoding. It is not required to be ASCII.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Saying that C++ uses ASCII is like saying accounts speak Spanish, because your accountant uses Spanish. Other people may use other languages. Other computers might not use ASCII.
 
VC++ just happens to use ASCII.
 
so its my compiler?
 
10:53 PM
In combination with compiler flags and OS, yes.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil it's the CPU that the compiler is compiling for. The compiler can (probably) target non-ASCII CPUs.
 
Or architecture, yeah.
 
Assuming here C++ uses ASCII code
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil don't assume that.
 
Just to make this short
 
10:54 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil alright then :D
 
too late
 
Encodings that are not ASCII nor supersets of ASCII are stupid, moronic and must die.
 
Can a char be considered as a number that gets interpreted differently ????
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil yes (even if it's not ASCII)
 
10:54 PM
@RadekSlupik why compatable with ASCII?
 
it will be harder to guess if it isnt ASCII
 
char has no number semantics.
int has, double has, your class BigInt has, my class Rational has, but char has not.
 
@RadekSlupik I disagree with that. Though I agree that it ought not have number semantics.
 
Is now a good time to mention that the bits in numbers can be interpreted in a number of ways?
 
@Chimera no, we went over that already (poorly)
 
eq-
10:55 PM
Numbers don't contain bits; objects do
 
@MooingDuck oh good
 
I'm a terrible explainer-person
 
I'm a terrible person
 
@RadekSlupik yes
 
10:57 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil why the question?
 
Wow, I'm amazed that nobody noticed that this question is a dupe of this.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil (and sorry for being pedantic)
 
@MooingDuck I like to understand how things work. Curiosity I want to know more
 
@RadekSlupik Hmm...I disagree. At least officially, ISO 10646 is a superset of ISO 646, which was (ever so slightly) different from ASCII, so it's not a superset of ASCII. At the same time, I'm pretty sure some of the ISO 8859-* are supersets of ASCII, and they're clearly inferior.
 
@Mystical you did.
 
10:58 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil yeah, as far as the C++ spec is concerned, char is a number just like short. It's us as programmers who treat it separately (as we should)
 
@RadekSlupik I just found it. It'd have been closed a lot earlier had I seen it earlier.
 
@MooingDuck Understood :D
 
Why do those things always have to be closed ASAP!!!!!!!!!?
 
@Mysticial intersting concept y=y++ Why the hell ???
 

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