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2:12 AM
Hi, anybody that knows msbuild a little bit can help me with this? stackoverflow.com/questions/58600515/…
 
 
3 hours later…
5:19 AM
Morning! :)
 
 
2 hours later…
7:03 AM
Gooood moorniiiiing CeeeeeShaaaaarp! Have you seen any new patterns or anti-patterns in action lately?
 
7:17 AM
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
 
@Squirrelkiller I saw someone write the same line repeated 10 times or so
apparently this was supposed to be "faster than a loop"
I definitely would consider this an anti-pattern :)
 
He might be right you now @Neil
Not having to itterate, hard coding 10 indexes
But then again, I'd guess it doesn't really have to much of an effect.
 
7:32 AM
Still, usually the gain is so minimal that the time he took to code that will be as long as 1mio executions or osmething.
 
Hi guys
 
'sup
We still don't know about Xamarin :P
 
Lol
You know how device indipendent points works?
 
Morning
 
7:36 AM
15 minutes to copy a VM backup, interesting
alternatively, 47 minutes to download 1GB
+1 point for remote working
 
@Squirrelintraining well yeah he's right that it is faster. That's not really the point
you wouldn't write the same line 10 times because it's fugly
 
@Squirrelkiller If the code runs on 1 mil devices, then it's fine after one run on 'em all
 
Absolutely
 
@Neil No, I'd hide that "loop" in an external .dll protect it so nobody can uncompile it through godlike majority hack skillz and then call a function called TotallyNotTheSameCode10TimesToImproveSpeed
 
It doesn't matter if you run that trash in 10 trillion machines, still doesn't make up for the lack of clarity
 
7:39 AM
@Squirrelintraining I'm looking at source code, not assembly
this isn't some .dll supposed to hide a loop and repeat 10 times either
Bottom line, do you think it's a good idea to write the same line ten times for production code?
If you say yes, then there's nothing to discuss here. I have my opinion and you have yours..
 
imagine he comes back the next day like "ha I will now refactor this into ultimate beauty with minimal performance drop" and proceeds to create the function PrettyYetFast(...) and calls it, effectively hiding that pile of burning excrement deep down the code.
BTW guys you never really answered my question @Squirrel did I just ping you all?
 
Morning o/
 
@HéctorÁlvarez I dunno.. do I ping everyone starting with the letter N by doing @ + N?
 
You only pinged SiT
Not sure how SO decides who to ping
 
probably just short circuits the first matching user
 
7:51 AM
I am a ocassional visitor, so I am not up to date... Is gonna be a Caprica replacement? I have read some bot development messages lately
 
Wietlol was talking about making a replacement bot, but I don't know how serious that is
why was Caprica taken down?
 
In protest or something
Because meta drama
 
@Neil or busy! I am one of the contributors of an admin. bot in a game and I get no time to code in my personal time
 
well just asking, honest question
 
@Squirrelkiller Yet chats is a somehow hidden feature
Poor impact of a protest if that were the case
 
7:55 AM
it is probably for the best that everyone doesn't make bots for these chats, or you'd start seeing advertisements like "30% off all avocados at your nearest DotMart!"
I suppose bots like that would be banned though
 
I want 30% discount on avocados...
 
I am getting paranoid... back to work from holidays (a couple of days) and I notice my computer was on. I thought "oh, I forgot to turn it off". I unlock it, start working with it, and I notice I got the KeePass open asking for the master password
I protected it with my personal security token, so no harm done... But WTF is going on?
 
Someone tried to steal your 30% discount codes for avocados most likely.
 
That password database not only has work related stuff, but all my personal ones
 
jk, but if someone knows the password to unlock your computer, you should really change it ASAP
 
8:00 AM
I set up the password a week ago, and allegedly no one knew it
 
ohayou
 
check the event viewer, see what activity you can see from the days you were off
 
The problem is I am local admin, so a password leak could compromise all my OS
 
any login attempts?
 
hi @Proxy
No clue, will check
 
8:02 AM
if you did leave your computer on and I was your colleague, you'd have come back to David Hasselhoff naked with puppies in your background
 
@HéctorÁlvarez No one had my password
 
is your pswd safe?
 
hi @bradbury9
 
@Neil Ofcourse not. yes
 
No one had my password but colleague may guess it easily since and I dont care
 
8:06 AM
@bradbury9 no but if you had left your computer unlocked for some reason...
 
"if you guess my password, then you deserve to login my pc"
 
I mean we do that often
 
@Developer00 Is not written anywhere, only remembered in Outlook and IIS app-pool
And not a guessable password ;-)
 
But maybe someone guessed it
if it's not an alphanumeric sequence
@bradbury9 ok, fine
 
OMFG windows security event log only has today data
And I see no trace of "event cleared" log
 
8:14 AM
@nyconing So the combination is one, two, three, four, five. That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage!
 
Hey
 
An there is a log on saturday saying "the domain controller changer ur password"
something weird is going on
 
If you knows a non-it person, and guess their password by first typed char, and alternate possibly chars and numbers, you have higher chance to correct. because the combinations must be their ic or car plate or birthday or boyfriend birthday
 
Yeah it's good to have no girlfriend so nobody can guess my PW
forever alone
 
8:22 AM
"this is my favorite number, i shall make it as password" this is commonsense for human when they create their account for the first time in 13yo
 
we've been told that the best password is one with uppercase and lowercase letters/numbers/symbols, you name it
as it would be the most "difficult" to determine through an algorithm, but ultimately it's still easy to determine if it's short, meaning we have to have a long password that's difficult to remember
pick 4 random words, and memorize them. Add a number because most password validators want some sort of number
and bingo
 
!~>Convert.ToBase64String(Guid.NewGuid().ToByteArray())
@nyconing stFqj3b7SUuu4jRMdKwSrw==
@Squirrelkiller Im always curious about meaning of PSA
google and wiki dont give me correct answer
PSA, PsA, Psa, or psa may refer to: Contents. 1 Airlines and airports; 2 Art and culture; 3 Astronomy; 4 Automotive; 5 Biology; 6 Chemistry; 7 Computing ...
 
@Neil welp yes and no.
It's easier to remember, yes
 
And the top result is... Prostate specific antigen
 
Quicker to crack?
Maybe.
If you know the target is only using Alpha(numerical) characters it lessens the possible char allot (is that even writen correct?)
correct!horse?battery_stable☺ would be more secure.
Also using only words makes it easier to guess right patterns
 
8:43 AM
@Squirrelintraining if you're cracking a paypal password, are you going to assume they're only using alpha characters?
aside from the fact that I don't think you could anyway
so the whole "adding a number at the end" would still make it hard to crack
the moment you can no longer shortcut password checks means you have to brute force it
and at that point length is what counts and nothing else
you're not going to have an algorithm which throws in random lowercase english words in combination and then throws on numbers 1 through 1000 at the end for good measure
the number of possible combinations of english words alone makes that infeasible, but you're never going to attempt also with a number at the end
 
the kinds of password you'd crack would be 1234 and eatlovepray
there will always be an insecure password like that before they'd crack something like 4 random english words and a random number at the end, I promise
 
Didn't use the word "assume".
I said if you know the target uses the technique describe above (4 random words) then it makes it easier.
If you have no clue about the target and didn't do any kind of reconnaissance, then yes, 4 random words is the way to go.
 
"masterke"
 
@Developer00 typing in "ThisIsAPassword" seems to be very secure :D
Same goes for Password1234
 
8:53 AM
fail on dictionary attack
 
good morning
 
ahoy mateys
 
My first real project, client is german
Hans bring zie flammenwehrfer
ja est gecht
bitte
I'm ready
 
@Squirrelintraining sure, if you knew the password were correct!horse?battery_stable, it would take a whole 1 second to crack your password
kind of cheating to make assumptions like that, isn't it?
 
so I find myself making a web-service call in a static constructor … this feels so wrong!
 
9:03 AM
@BlackSquirrel That smells
 
@HéctorÁlvarez xaxaxa
 
am doing a hunger
@CaptainObvious i would like that sandwich pls
fanx
 
9:29 AM
not cheating boi
It's about narrowing down the possibilities.
If you know your target smashes his head into the keyboard to generate his password there is a wider variety to the possible characters than if you know that he only uses >REAL< words.
This narrows down to the roughly 170.000 different words in the english language combined in different patterns.

I don't know of any english language specific patters, but in german if a c is in a word it's (almost) always followed by an h (Chaos, Scheiße, Schizophren etc.).
Easiest way to brute force:
Check all 170.000 words
Then check all 2 word combinations
Then check all 3 word combination etc.
 
morn
 
Hi
is it fair to say, Navigation properties are like syntactic sugar with regards to joins?
 
no?
 
can you expand on your question?
Mainly because i honestly have no idea what you are asking
 
9:34 AM
\o
 
Navigation properties!
 
for what
 
great just heard the cat is here all week
 
websites?
 
9:34 AM
wtf man
 
winforms?
 
how im supposed to work when it jumps on my keyboard all the time
 
in EntityFramework
 
how you make it clear to stay away
 
9:34 AM
yes you can say that
 
maybe i should kick it
 
@Hans1984 you don't
 
But it's more like a join.
 
but that would be harsh
 
DO NOT KICK THE CAT
 
9:34 AM
No sugar
 
I'LL FIND AND KICK YOU
 
This squirrel neede to calm the f down.
:P
 
arigato
 
i would never kick an animal
maybe a human though
 
Also oh shit gotta run b4 the wrath of the captain gets to me
 
9:35 AM
Throws Pokeball at captain squirrrel
 
@Hans1984 Oh, I can imagine a situation where I'd go and kick an animal.
 
Hi madara
 
this poor cat
 
I have in-fact, kicked a dog, once. Hard.
 
It wasn't me!
 
9:36 AM
abandoned from her owner for this week
left in this office
alone all night long
 
It was to cause him to release his jaw grip on my hand, I felt bad about it, but it was effective.
 
oh my Lord Madara!
 
sucks man
 
I wanted to make my pic as Obito once
 
welcome back captain :) *hands out paw shaking in fear*
 
9:37 AM
why is this cat purring ALL THE TIME ?
 
I had caught him
 
is this specific for sphinx cats ?
 
he was in my pokeball
 
like non stop
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
9:38 AM
oh jesus
 
My cat purrs when I hold her
 
oh lawd is nyconning on again?
 
kicking cats
 
on drugs again
i've never kicked an animal in my life i think
 
you think
 
9:40 AM
Harry you are ... a bug
 
@Squirrelintraining If you were looking for a single english word, then cycling through all 170 thousand would be quick
 
why would you kick an animal
EXCEPT STUPID INSECTS !
 
If you have four english words, then that's already 170.000^4
 
4 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
I have in-fact, kicked a dog, once. Hard.
 
@Shad am i really??? thank you for saying so, i never knew!!
 
9:40 AM
but why ?
 
4 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
It was to cause him to release his jaw grip on my hand, I felt bad about it, but it was effective.
 
makes sense
 
but you're assuming that A) there are exactly 4, B) they're english C) there aren't numbers anywhere in the password
 
@Neil Are we talking about correct battery horse staple?
 
@Squirrelintraining my revenge will be swift and unexpected
 
9:41 AM
Again, it's easy to make assumptions. If you don't know any of these things, then while you can assume it for the sake of hopefully finding the password more quickly, more than likely you'll just waste cpu cycles
@MadaraUchiha yep, precisely :)
 
but srly how do i make the cat stay on the floor
 
@Neil yes but more so if you have 4 random 26 letter strings
 
@Squirrelintraining ok, and your point?
You have to crack a password.. you know nothing about it.. you want to assume it is composed of four random english words? Go right on ahead
you'll be here for a while
 
The optimal strategy is to use a good password vault and use long randomly generated passwords
 
9:43 AM
@Neil Only using words IS weaker than using random letters.
 
Also, the idea in the correcthorsebatterystaple example is that the attacker has no advance information about your keyspace
 
I disagree madara, that also uses software.
Id rely on pen and paper.
 
@Squirrelintraining If you knew it was composed of four random english words, then cracking it by combinations of four random english words would be faster..
 
Also @Hans1984 it sounds to me like you've been chosen
 
You don't know that
 
9:44 AM
The attacker doesn't know your method of choosing 4 random English dictionary words
 
oof
 
From the attacker's perspective, looking at hashed passwords -- at best, they know whatever keyspace the website gives out as instructions.
 
If you attempted to crack my password assuming they were composed of four random english words, and you come to find out later that there's a number in there somewhere, your whole strategy fails
 
Aye
Brute forcing isn't the best way in any case.
 
in 70misn my co worker arrives
 
9:45 AM
If they know it's specifically 4 correctly spelled words from the English dictionary, the keyspace shrinks dramatically
 
i hope this cat will go to her then
 
@MadaraUchiha My saying.
Anyways g2work guys ima afk
 
but since it has been with me here alone all day yesterday chances are slim
ugh
 
@Squirrelintraining But they don't know that, that's the point.
 
using a password vault is the best way only because they're statistically likely passwords
 
Unless they have advance information about you and your password selection scheme, which is an entirely different problem.
 
Oh yeah, cap is ded
 
52 mins ago, by nyconing
fail on dictionary attack
 
lol it is following my mouse curser right now
 
The thin is, the more people use the 4 letter combi thingy, the more success one has if you just assume that it's like that.

I mean if that "fast" way fails you can always reverts to plain old brute forcing if you're nto that.
 
9:47 AM
@Hans1984 just call for Alf
ALF is an American sitcom that aired on NBC from September 22, 1986, to March 24, 1990. The title character is Gordon Shumway, a sarcastic, friendly extraterrestrial nicknamed ALF (an acronym for Alien Life Form), who crash-lands in the garage of the suburban middle-class Tanner family. The series stars Max Wright as father Willie Tanner, Anne Schedeen as mother Kate Tanner, and Andrea Elson and Benji Gregory as their children, Lynn and Brian Tanner. ALF was performed by puppeteer Paul Fusco, who co-created the show with Tom Patchett.Produced by Alien Productions, ALF originally ran for four seasons...
 
i showed it some cat pic and it was almost jumping
lmao
 
if I understand correctly, relationship in entityframework can be made using ForeignKey mapping or Navigation Property.
am I right?
 
 
@Hans1984 be nice to the kitty
Also, pay your cat tax man
AKA Show us the cat!
 
@Squirrelintraining Sure, but seeing how the most common password in the world is literally password, I think that those who use the n words method are still way better off than the median :D
If you and your friend are running from a bear, you don't need to outrun the bear, you only need to outrun your friend.
 
9:49 AM
^
 
madara do you keep a blog?
I want to follow you
 
@Shad No, I've been thinking about it a few times, but I never quite gathered the energy to do it
 
cat looks like this
 
That's like the best kind of compliment you can get these days
 
9:49 AM
:(
 
I didn't ask for what the cat looked like
 
it looks like a giant rat but it damn sure behaves like a cat
 
But thank you for your kind words :)
 
I asked to see the cat >:(
 
Legend! ;)
 
9:50 AM
Looks like a cat squirrel
 
I have a cat
 
@Hans1984 I don't know, have you observed the behavior of a rat to determine if they behave like a rat?
 
she is persian
 
duck.quack();  rat.uhh();
oh right, they squeak
 
9:51 AM
fox.???()
 
this cat sort is canadian
 
rat.REEEEEEEEEEEE()
 
i just read
 
@Hans1984 Ah the famous canadian cat sort algorithm
 
@MadaraUchiha Lel good one
@Shad banana
 
9:52 AM
sorte=kind in german
@Neil
so this sort
this kind ;)
 
You don't necessarily need to be secure enough to face a targeted attack against you, when talking about password cracking, that's just a bonus. You need to be secure enough to not be swept with common dictionary and rainbow attacks. Most attackers will be content getting 10,000 passwords out of a million, and carry on with their lives.
 
@Hans1984 I imagined ;)
 
@ntohl => "dadadadadadadada-----düdüdüdüdü";
 
It is way more important to, say, not share passwords between different services, than it is to have an insanely strong password.
 
Aye, agreed.
 
9:54 AM
it's difficult to come up with a password that not only you can remember, but you strongly associate it where you use that particular password and no where else
 
Even if your password is literally ScS^2VbXTzR^8&kJl7BjgoeE2vfgN@kp9n%YKv2NY31RRW#sA62$H7jjY#kVRG#kr6E^xMVO67z@O8XFH98RRemo5A#^GbOKb^d, if it's shared between all of your services, and just one is cracked and didn't use proper hashing, you're done.
 
It's just easier to have some sort of secure master password vault
 
until that one's password is leaked. Or you used the vault's password elsewhere
I consider gmail's password as vault password
 
It happened to my wife that her account was cracked. It was for some forum site so no biggie
though it occured to me to ask her if she used that password anywhere else..
 
@MadaraUchiha that hacker might think their attack tool have a bug that given original hash out to the output
 
9:55 AM
She did. Paypal.
We checked immediately and the password had already been changed
 
not nice
 
i hate captchas
and i hat ethe ppl that invented it
 
Fortunately we managed to reset the password because the cracker wasn't apparently able to change the secondary security measures
 
they deserve to die a slow very painfull death
 
there was like one purchase for 670 euros that we were able to cancel
we were extremely lucky in that regard
 
9:56 AM
Actually, that password is a bit over the top
 
nice
 
Also, got a great opportunity to express the importance of not using dates as passwords to my wife :P
 
Seeing how bcrypt truncates you at 72 characters :)
@nyconing That's not bad though, setting your password to $2y$12$pyssx/pf7i3YHUOp8cMm1OjzOaADXj0sl7JjjCiZQ6gDGIjkYO4jy or something similar
 

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