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5:00 PM
@jalf not exactly i want to use standard template library and all.
@jalf u know any website which first check your coding standard where you satnd in coding or check how are efficient you are in coding..is it? i was thinking about this so i put here..
 
Oh god, PHP programmers are such a pain
 
that's probably because PHP is such a pain
 
Language zealotry is bad enough in general, but when you're emotionally attached to PHP of all things, you just need to shut up and keep it to yourself...
 
lol
 
@ deadMG .ya php scripting is very much poor.but dont forget some of the big website are made in php
like facebook
 
5:07 PM
@Raja: Why would I care about that?
PHP, as a language, completely sucks
that's not nullified by good things people have written in it
 
@DeadMG I hate the MSDN site, I just can't navigate it properly
 
@thecoshma: It has a search function - use it
 
@thecoshman that's what Google is for
 
@DeadMG yer, and I can still never find what I want
 
what, you don't know how to search?
 
5:09 PM
@DeadMG Unfortunately, MSDN's search still has a fondness for returning MFC, ATL or Azure or .NET results. But in fairness, it has improved dramatically. It returns results in English now. I used to get Japanese when I search for DirectX docs
 
yeah, normal use google :P
 
Merging last DeadMG and jalf comments: MSDN lets you search with Bing, which intends to compite with google
 
@thecoshman msdn is useful in asp.net .i find it very useful while learning .net
 
@Raja phft, asp.net
much prefer php over asp
 
ASP rocks PHP any day
ASP.NET, you can write in a statically typed, object orientated, compiled language
 
5:11 PM
@thecoshma phft?
 
PHP, you have to write in some dynamically typed, poorly interpreted with guesstimations crap, terrible syntax, poor object orientation
 
ASP is still a pretty messed up and crufty framework. But if you avoid the nasty bits, what's left is pretty reasonable
 
@Raja an onomatopoeic way of expressing a casual disregard for something
 
friennds i need to go now..good nite all
 
have to admit, the ASP designer sucks somewhat hard
 
5:12 PM
/me googles onomatopoeic
 
if it was actually capable of laying out elements, it'd be sweet
 
@DeadMG whoever came up with the concept of ViewState ought to be shot and set to work on PHP
 
@DeadMG I don't really see why the dynamic typing of PHP is an issue, not sure what you mean by "poorly interpreted with auesstimations2, I found the syntax fine, and oo was something that I failed to see the real advantage of for the sort of scripts I was working.
 
@ DeadMG .one last thing so which langauge u find most convenient for designing website?
asp.net
,j2ee
or php
 
dynamic typing: none of the safety and none of the performance, and all of the excessive debugging at runtime
 
5:14 PM
lets hav a vote now
 
@Raja designing? CSS3 :S
 
from what I've seen, RoR beats all three
 
@thecoshman: Imagine that you've written
 
or any reasonable language with a reasonable MVC framework aimed at web development
 
for($i = 0; $i < 10; $i++) { array[i] = $i; }
 
5:15 PM
anyway, I'd better head out and get something productive done today...
 
what happens? PHP doesn't go "Oh, you made an error!", it goes, "Oh well you must have meant 'i' instead
and then you have to find out what went wrong at run-time
PHP converts errors that could be easily caught at compile-time and turns them into hours of debugging at run-time
 
like I said, I have never had an issue with the way PHP works. admittedly I never did anything that complex, so may be I just never got to a stage where these things became an issue
 
what, you never wrote a for loop?
that doesn't count as using a language
 
well obviously I used for loops
 
guys all language has their importance.i dont know much about php-but its a open source language and people mainly preffered java due to its portabilty and asp.net as it will run same as on all window operating system
 
5:19 PM
@Raja: No, that's flat out wrong
some languages are plain useless, or only have use because implementing a better language would be too much effort
such as C
 
@DeadMG where it is wrong?
 
but all these 'flaws' that have been pointed out about php where never an issue for me. I am not sure why this, maybe they'r just obscure flaws that only come up in odd cases
 
@thecoshman: Sounds to me like you never actually tried to use the language for anything beyond $a = $b + $c;
or what happens if you try to reference a variable that doesn't exist? Oh whoops, sorry, not gonna mention that either
 
@DeadMG well, I made a blog systems with a sort of CMS, probably the most advanced thing I did with it
 
or how about inconsistent treatment of globals
you must explicitly allow each global to be referenced- unless it's $_SESSION or friends
so the first time you come to use your own globals, you spend hours, again, debugging at runtime
 
5:22 PM
@DeadMG yeah so that a pain to sort out, but I never actually came across bugs involving that, maybe I was instructivelly careful enough to avoid such bugs
But I have given up trying to write my own web site code now. Just accepted using a CMS
I have better things to do then reinvent the wheel
 
yeah
not writing any web code myself except for university
 
infuriatingly we had to do website shit in our first year... but not dynamic stuff. It's this retard common first year crap my uni is jizzing over
if you can't tell, I dislike this notion of common first year
 
I have no idea what tht is
tbh, it's not like I think that students should not be taught websites or PHP and stuff
but I think that it should be ... balanced
 
The idea is that more or less or computing course share a common first year so that if after the first year you don't like your course you can swap
 
we did four semesters web programming, one client programming
@thecoshman: That depends on the range of computing courses you offer
 
5:34 PM
look at my first year moduls;
Computer Systems Architecture & Networks
Introduction Programming & Software Development
Introduction to Computer Games Technology and Programming
Mathematics for 2-D Computer Graphics and Games
Personal Development and I.T.
Web Design
 
that's way more interesting than my first year
 
the first was basicly low level logic circuits
not as bad as I remember looking back at it
 
you only did six modules for a year?
we did twelve
 
but I see no purpose to web design when on a CGT course!
 
some were double modules
on a what course?
 
5:35 PM
computer games technology is my course
 
some games are web based
 
I can understand for say general computer science, but surely when doing a more specific course, the modules should be more specific
@DeadMG some, but they are not about web design, we did NO server or client side code for that. it was all about designing web sites
 
oh well that's different
we did
 
We had a networking module in our second year, sounded good, learning how to write networked applications and all. but no, it was networking theory, how does a switch work, how does the internet work etc. Yes you need to know this to an extent for writing networked code, but we just did theory of networking
 
Logic & Functional Programming - haskell & boolean algebra
Programming for the WWW - i.e. html/js
Essential Skills for CS - latex/unix scripts
Introduction to E-Business - ebusiness techniques
Server-Side programming (PHP)
Databases
Object-Orientated Programming (java mostly, some c++)
Computer Systems (low-level logic circuits, binary representation of float/int/etc)
Mathematics for CompSci (vectors/etc, really pre-uni stuff)
 
5:41 PM
@DeadMG yeah. my uni does two semesters a year, with 10 modules during the year, though some are combined into a year long
 
@thecoshma: We do 6 modules/semester, but some are doubles and some are year-long
this year I've got
AI Methods - PROLOG & some algorithms
Team Projects - group coursework in PHP and now ASP.NET
Requirements Analysis
2D Graphics
Operating Systems, Networks & Internets
Formal Specification
Programming Languages
Legal & Professional Issues in Computing
Object-Orientated Systems Design and HCi
 
the second year was;
Object Oriented Systems - in java
Personal Development II - notice this again? yes, its the half our first year module again
Computer Games Technology and Animation - 3d modelling
Computer Games Programming and Workshop
Mathematics and Computer Graphics - a lot of first year stuff
Data Communications and Computer Networks - the network theory module
Professional Issues - a strange module this one, did well in it though
 
my third year has choices, and some of them look sweet
 
ever year so far, they have changed the structure of our course, so we have a lot of modules that are partial repeats of previous ones
 
Computer Vision
Data Mining
3D Graphics
Lean Operations (wtf?)
 
5:45 PM
We had some awesome looking options, but then because so few of us are left in the course, many where cut.
 
Microprocessor Applications
Software Project Management
Algorithm Analysis
Implementation of programming languages
Agent-Based Systems
Robotics
Advanced Human-Computer Interfaction
 
There was an option neural networks; thought it would an amazing module, but apparently its a business module that is some how replaced the actual computing neural networks
 
I would love to do neural networks
 
@DeadMG me too! but like I said, it was a business studies module really
 
man
I wish I could do concurrency
 
5:49 PM
We did a HCI module last semester, god that was hell! it's such a painfully fluffy area
 
man, I just can't wait to be done with this shit
 
@DeadMG me too :P
 
looking at it and it's like, man, I wish I could do all the third year modules first, they're way better
 
couple more months and I am free!!!
 
fucker:P
still 13 or so for me
that's if I drop the master's section
 
5:51 PM
it just seem like unis are trying to cater too much for people who have not done things before
 
yeah
well, it's not just that, but
 
Your in UK aint you?
 
yeah
but I feel like they're disproportionately weighted towards some kinds of programming
like, we did Unix scripts- but I don't see anything on Windows .bat files, or something like that
 
if your already on a masters course stay on it dude. because you signed up for masters, you get student finance for your masters as well. I am signed up for just BSc, so even if I go straight into masters, I have to fund it my self
 
yeah
that's what happened to my sister
she doesn't get student finance for her masters in publishing
but I will get student finance for my fourth year
if I haven't gone insane by then
 
5:54 PM
it's really unfair I think. the only difference is that you have already said you want to do masters
 
yeah
and they were happy to accept
 
you could always drop down to part time for masters and do it over two years, its fairly common, especially for poor sods who have to self fund
 
nah
if I'm gonna do a Masters, I'm gonna get it done and be done with it
 
by any chance did you decide to go straight into uni and not bother with a gap year "to get it over with"?
 
no
I went straight into uni because I was a script kiddie, loved playing with code, and I wanted to do more coding
in retrospect, should have taken software engineering instead of computer science
 
5:58 PM
I am sure either way you would still get stuck with wank modules :P
 
lol
yeah
 
does your course do placement years?
 
yes, but I'm not doing one
 
in a sort of rhetorical way, how come?
 
well
because I want to gtfo this place and not spend an extra year here
 
6:06 PM
It is a year away from uni, so it would be a break
I would advise that you do do a placement. For one, employers will know you where offered the chance so you can avoid having to explain why you thought it was beneath you (as they will see it).
 
I think it's too late to apply for one
 
not sure how your uni does it, but for mine we apply our selves, though some where through the uni
 
well, I know that the application window for Intel and Microsoft have both passed
 
Don't go thinking that you need a programming related job. It's not really important what you do on you year, it's how you do it. It's a chance to show that you are able to work in a professorial environment, the sort of thing your degree can't show
 
I don't need a programming related job
but I sure as hell am not gonna spend a year stocking shelves as my placement
 
6:14 PM
@DeadMG that is one extreme :P
 
besides
I looked at the Microsoft placement stuff
 
I spent mine working in a school as a network administrator. Academically, it was a complete waste of time, not really related to my course at all. But at least I can say I have worked in a job where I have been expected to think for my self, and been put under pressure to get things sorted in very short time. Besides, it was fun year, coffee and biscuits are tasty :D
 
they wanted way more than I had
they were like
show us all of your experience working in a team!
and I'm like
I'm a second year student; what are you expecting me to fill that gap with, exactly?
 
And this is the same sort of situations you are going to get into when you graduate. with a placement behind you, gives you something concrete to base your bullshit on, I have plenty of 'team working experience' from my year in school :P
 
not helpful if you get asked before your placement
 
6:20 PM
true :P
what about group course works?
 
hadn't done any yet
 
really :O
 
our team projects module was this year
by January, none were due in
 
have you started formulating post uni plans yet?
 
none to be made except to find a job
 
6:28 PM
lol, my thoughts as well
 
maybe write some super sexy software as my masters
and get hired on that
 
6:53 PM
@DeadMg Sounds like a plan!
 
@thecoshman: lol
I'd have to get off my arse and get back to coding, though
been in real dumps since I got sick
 
I'm just finding it really hard to focus on so many projects at once.
Not sure what sort of job to get after uni. Thinking I will try to just get some money coming in and work on some real good portfolio things. I have a game that I really want to make.
 
7:13 PM
yeah same
 
7:58 PM
hi
 
hey guys
downloaded Boost 1.46.1, but I can't seem to find the uBLAS library in it
there's none of the listed uBLAS headers and no folder for them
and, for example, they've named a folder "algorithm", which obviously conflicts with <algorithm> as an include
 
How can a folder conflict with a header? If you #include <algorithm> it has to be the standard header. If you #include <algorithm/x.hpp> it cannot possibly be that
 
8:14 PM
I don't think the file system allows for folders and files to have the same name
especially as <algorithm> has no extension
 
Still... I don't know how the headers are shipped for VS, but in linux c++ headers are in /usr/include/c++/<version>/, and boost headers are in /usr/include/boost
For the two to conflict you would have to dump the contents of the boost/ directory into the directory that contains the standard headers (note, not the boost directory, but the contents of it)
 
the boost headers don't have a specific inclusion place on Windows
they just go with all the other system includes, including STL include
 
at any rate I would not throw non-standard headers in the same directory where the standard ones are, just install them in a subdirectory and add that to the include path
 
Compiler will look only for files when resolving #include <algorithm>
 
tricky to add include paths on VS, from memory
but more importantly, the uBLAS headers are still missing
 
8:20 PM
@DeadMG They're in numeric/ublas
 
ah so I see
 
sbi
8:39 PM
Anyone know if this is real or does O'Reilly do jokes?
Ah. Apparently oreilly.com links don't inline.
Anyway, it's funny.
Google has less than a dozen hits, half of which point to O'Reilly. Seems fishy.
 
look at the text at the bottom
 
sbi
@DeadMG What's a "Colophon"?
 
I have no idea
but it's the body of the text that gives it away
it's specific to the book, but instead of writing about the content, they describe the cover
In publishing, a colophon, is either: * A brief description of publication or production notes relevant to the edition, in modern books usually located at the reverse of the title page, but can also sometimes be located at the end of the book, or * A printer's mark or logotype Production notes In early printed books the colophon, when present, was a brief description of the printing and publication of the book, giving some or all of the following data: the date of publication, the place of publication/printing (sometimes including the address as well as the city name), the name(s) of the...
 
sbi
Ah. "Perhaps the most amazing thing about basilisks is that they have the ability to run across water." So it is a joke.
Well, it's a nice one. And fitting, too:
I like how Windows Update reports an "Unknown error" if you lose your network connection. That's like the #1 most obvious error case.
3
 
lol
 
8:54 PM
where's @Alf ?
 
9:05 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb i'm here
i wonder what can inspire a person to go downvoting a very old question of mine. it's so utterly moronic to do that. i think, if one found what can inspire a moron to do that, perhaps one could achieve total mind control?
-1
Q: Late binding of COM->NET call with enum value argument(s)

Alf P. SteinbachFirst, note that this is just a learning exercise for me. The intent is to produce a .NET messagebox using nothing but pure C++ (not C++/CLI) and late binding as necessary. This works fine with just a title and text in the messagebox. However, when I try to specify buttons I get back 2147942487...

 
@AlfPSteinbach hahah yea probably you can achieve total mind control that way
but it is pretty moronic
 
@AlfPSteinbach some people are douche bags, what can you do
 
other recent (today) example of douche bag, someone contacted me on Skype pretending to be Lt General Douglas E. Lute, complete with photograph and military-sounding status. Mr. Lute is the Deputy National Security Advisor for Afghanistan and Iraq. I've never met him...
i just blocked him and reported abuse. was that right thing to do?
 
I guess that was best thing you could do
 
9:28 PM
@Alf: Are you certain it wasn't really Mr Lute?
 
@DeadMG yes, unless Mr Lute has lost his marbles, do you think?
 
@Alf: Then how could blocking and reporting him not be the right thing to do?
 
@DeadMG well some of those who sail under false flag are, in my experience, vindictive.
 
does anyone know what programming languages are considered "Regular"?
 
@Tony to the extent that regular expressions can be considered a language i think they must be regular
 
9:36 PM
@Tony: I expect that they mean C-family languages, mostly
 
@AlfPSteinbach yea that seems kind of obvious
I know that HTML is irregular for example
 
HTML is not really a language
it's more like data
 
If you're talking theory, then there is no such thing as 'irregular' language. ;)
The next class after regular languages are context-free ones, AFAIR.
 
@PiotrLegnica English?
 
9:38 PM
I read that on a SO answer somewhere, where the poster wanted to parse html with regex (no do NOT try that), then sb said that HTML is irregular and cannot be parsed as such
 
@AlfPSteinbach Formal languages.
It's called Chomsky hierarchy.
 
@Tony: Pretty much no languages can be parsed with regex, as they can't even match nested brackets, for example
 
sbi
Mar 9 at 15:35, by sbi
Breaking news: HTML+CSS is Turing complete http://bit.ly/hQJfkC
 
ok I'm gonna watch Stephan T Lavavej's talk on rvalue refs now :)
 
it is now
 
9:39 PM
Within the field of computer science, specifically in the area of formal languages, the Chomsky hierarchy (occasionally referred to as Chomsky–Schützenberger hierarchy) is a containment hierarchy of classes of formal grammars. This hierarchy of grammars was described by Noam Chomsky in 1956. It is also named after Marcel-Paul Schützenberger who played a crucial role in the development of the theory of formal languages. Formal grammars A formal grammar of this type consists of: * a finite set of terminal symbols * a finite set of nonterminal symbols * a finite set of production r...
 
@Tony oh that matches up with only known easter egg of this chat, creating link to infamous question about parsing XML with regexp (it's pretty funny, if u can find it)
 
@AlfPSteinbach good you know which post I'm talking about
that's so hilarious
 
I don't think any programming languages are regular, those grammars are not powerful enough.
 
449
Q: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

JeffI need to match all of these opening tags: <p> <a href="foo"> But not these: <br /> <hr class="foo" /> I came up with this and wanted to make sure I've got it right. I am only capturing the a-z. <([a-z]+) *[^/]*?> I believe it says: Find a less-than, then ...

that is the question that explains all about parsing HTML with regex, lol
it's hilarious
 
@sbi i don't understand that Wolfram should try to suppress result about rule 110. as i recall the wonderboy included that proof (of turing completeness) in his Phat Book?
@PiotrLegnica yep, his proof starts on page 675
 
sbi
9:52 PM
@AlfPSteinbach All I know is from the wikipedia page for Rule 110.
 
@sbi ah, thanks, broken NDA and such... he he :-)
The Rule 110 cellular automaton (often simply Rule 110) is an elementary cellular automaton with the following rule table: {| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center" |- ! current pattern | 111 | 110 | 101 | 100 | 011 | 010 | 001 | 000 |- ! new state for center cell | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 |} In the table above, when the sequence of 1s and 0s corresponding to the new states is regarded as a binary number, the decimal equivalent is 110; hence the name of the rule. History Around 2000, Matthew Cook published a proof of a 1985 conjecture by Stephen Wolfram by proving that Rule...
 
ah, @Alf
i thought since you seem to be enganged in the "int" / "unsigned" discussion, maybe this is interesting to you:
10
Q: The importance of declaring a variable as unsigned

RargeIs it important to declare a variable as unsigned if you know it should never be negative? Does it help prevent anything other than negative numbers being fed into a function that shouldn't have them?

 
sbi
Well, should I disappear one of these days, then that's probably because I'm in suspension. After deleting a criticizing question of mine on meta, Jeff has now deleted two comments of mine criticizing him for his attitude towards critique.
 
@sbi Huh, is it the day for people to completely change personality? I found Jeff very helpful, now apparently he's changed. And an old over-the-net friend of mine out of the blue posts to me "I'm very angry.".
 
sbi
10:08 PM
@AlfPSteinbach I have heard him being bad in dealing with critique before. I never ran into it myself, but since he seems to delete comments ASAP, there's little chance to do so unless you're the one criticizing.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb i don't care enough to downvote, but i find it disconcerting that someone can answer like that, and even more that people can upvote the nonsense
 
sbi
FWIW, the first comment Jeff deleted was a reply to Reno's comment explaining that, when Jeff's answer was posted, the situation was much worse regarding the criticized feature, in half a sentence adding that Jeff's attitude towards critique might have played a part in it.
The second one he deleted said that him deleting critique about him deleting critique is somewhat ironic and remarked that the comments criticizing him for deleting my question still get upvotes, and my question still gets favorited, which are the only two ways left to sympathize with said question.
Apparently, that was too much for him to endure.
I suppose my latest comment will be deleted, too. Once he is in god-mode... :)
Oh, it already is! LOL! And so is user's asking whether he really did that.
Well, to complete this, the third deleted comment replied to userXXXXX, affirming his observation, and stating that, what would be fine on SO otherwise, apparently is not Ok if addressed to Jeff.
Oh well. Time to go to bed anyway..
See you!
 
 
1 hour later…
11:22 PM
ugh
not better :(
 
sup?
 
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