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wim
12:12 AM
Python is very good language for web APIs yes. Maybe even the best, currently.
 
user8729657
cool
 
5:49 AM
@OvieTrix My very first introduction to Python was back in 2012, Udacity's very first course - Building a Search Engine :D
Tuesday cbg every1 :)
 
I have a CSV file which comprises the following details(sample):

UserType-age-Class-Gender-Grade-State

Student-13-Eighth-Female-B-Bengal

Student-17-Eleventh-Male-A-Goa

I want to do clustering using K means. I converted the data into numbers using LabelEncoder() and fitted the data :

e = preprocessing.LabelEncoder()
le = student.apply(e.fit)
Then I pickled the object "le":

pickle.dump(le, open('LabelEncoder.pkl', 'wb'))
After that I loaded the pickled file "LabelEncoder.pkl" in another file:
hi a little help here
 
@AkhilAlexander Umm, I think more context is needed, but anyway it seems like you are giving the wrong arguments to le.transform.
Maybe you meant lowercase student instead of Student
Python is case sensitive.
 
6:05 AM
@shad0w_wa1k3r i tried, the error still appears , i doubt that the program structure isn't right????any suggession
 
6:19 AM
@AkhilAlexander nope, not familiar with the rest of the stuff. But I would attempt one more thing, instead of "student", try student (without quotes). Depending on the input requirements, that might be the case, not sure. But seems like new_data is what is incorrect.
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r it seems that too doesn't work,changed the error to"student not defined" the full code is here -----> repl.it/@T_SS/IckySpatialClosedsource
 
6:53 AM
@shad0w_wa1k3r can u help me
 
I tried a little, but nope. Don't have requisite knowledge regarding the things, and a little lack of time.
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r thank you for your effort,seems i have to solve it myself
 
good luck
 
7:12 AM
cbg
 
recbg Andy!
 
cbg
 
7:29 AM
Hi all, I am trying to solve an issue in flask pagination where I have my pagination working correctly however it is only submitting the part of the form where the last radio button has been selected. Which makes sense as it is not storing the rest of the form data elsewhere. I found this question which is very similar stackoverflow.com/a/49349722/3416725 but am still confused. I was wandering if someone would be able to explain? Or should I ask a question on SO again?
 
@mp252 In general, (if it's a regular form submit and not via javascript) all inputs under the form will get submitted, so better check if your form html is correct first.
<form><input 1><input 2> <submit button></form>
<some_other_input>
In the above case, only input 1 & 2 will be submitted.
 
the form seems in order, just had a thought, should the pagination be inside the form?
 
Pagination isn't related to the form right? If it's not an input, it can be anywhere.
or wait, let me read the linked question first :-p
Django has formsets, I'm not sure if there's a similar functionality in Flask.
 
7:49 AM
cool will have a read through, thanks!
 
8:09 AM
@shad0w_wa1k3r ok so its not to do with the form. But I just double checked posting the form data and the reason it is not posting all the pages data, is because lets say I select something on page 1 and then switch to page 36 and select something there, when I go back to page one, that selection has been cleared off, so it doesn't remember the state if I am thinking correctly?
 
8:24 AM
@mp252 no, if the individual forms are separate, they'll retain / remember their state. It's likely that you have a dynamic form (changes / refreshes according to pagination). Also, this is getting off topic now since it's mostly HTML & not Flask.
 
ah ok, will have a look into it. It is a dynamically created form (wtform) I read data from my model and then set the attributes on the form.
 
@mp252 Yes, but do you repeat the form when rendering in the template? If not, it's basically the same form irrespective of pagination (might refresh if you have that kind of javascript behavior), hence it won't save state. What you can do is take a formset approach (multiple input sets linked by numbers, e.g. input1_form1, input2_form1, input1_form2, etc. under same <form> tag) and handle the individual form-wise input sets.
You might find a library that does this (might even be a functionality under wtform) in Flask, Django has built-ins for it. Unsure if Flask has a built-in as well.
 
8:52 AM
cbg
stackoverflow.com/questions/51494297/… has been marked as a dupe, so my dupe comment has been removed since the dupe link is the same as my comment, but I added a second link to the second part of the question "how to do it with dictionnary comp" which was also removed. Is that automatic? an error? normal because the question's title is only about the first dupe?
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r I just had my suspicions it was to do with the re-rendering of the same form! I will look into formset approach now. Another way I thought I could tackle this is to instead of using anchor elements to link to the next page, have a form element, so it posts the data and the does a redirect. If that can work
 
9:17 AM
Anyone know how I use multiple separators in pandas profiling or just pandas, I’ve got atm sep=“,” but I also need “/“ as a separator too
 
@mp252 That approach may work, but not recommended, unless you plan on changing the pagination to "submit & fill next" or something.
 
ah ok
so I guess I need to sort something out with the get routes
 
@ghost Doc' is saying that sep argument with more than one char, if sep != '\s+' will be interpreted as regex.
 
9:39 AM
Good day :)
 
9:52 AM
stackoverflow.com/q/51495352/1222951 typo (missing comma between the tuples)
 
@T.Nel yes, it's an automatic "feature" and a pain in the butt. You can ask a gold badger to add the second link to the dupe target list
 
10:07 AM
Well, turns out he asked in the comment how to do it with a comp' list, so I commented again the second dupe. Next time I'll ask a gold badger (here I guess?)
 
Yeah, I think that's fine
 
wow, 2012
Why bother deleting comments that are not flag-related-auto-comment? I'd prefer a redundant comment than a lack of information
 
10:25 AM
... Who upvotes this crap? stackoverflow.com/questions/51486684/…
 
10:36 AM
@T.Nel we all would. But there have always been more pressing matters, such as making the flag icon very very big so even the densest users can find them
 
11:04 AM
Hi Everyone,
Is there anyone familiar with perl?
Just want to know if there is any perl module to get cpu & memory information on linux system
 
I'm afraid this is the python room :)
 
Yeah, but i dint find room for perl so
 
Have you tried the javascript room?
 
HELLO
 
Welcome, there's no need to shout.
 
11:24 AM
@ghost so once again your friend posted a question, 2 minutes later you came asking here. Stop asking about the same problem on two separate channels! This is your last warning. I'd also be cautious with the possible voting ring behaviour I asked about yesterday, since you answered that question and had it accepted. This isn't against the rules in itself, but it's easy to become a voting ring among friends.
 
Hm, did not remembered his name when answering and did not check the question trend.
 
it's fine, you're not supposed to keep track of users that ignore the rules
s/supposed/expected/
 
Hello! I'm looking for a media player that runs on Windows, Linux, and MacOS that can be embedded in other programs and built statically. Anyone know of a media player like this?

At present, I have tested VLC, MPlayer and MPV media players, all of which failed to meet the requirements.
 
12:00 PM
GStreamer might fit the bill
 
OK, thank you very much. I'm testing it.
 
I've never been as much on urban dictionary as since I started coming here.
 
I take no responsibility for that
 
12:35 PM
Then it is not thanks to you that I learn new expressions every day.
I was this close to be grateful to you
 
oh well
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
1:03 PM
rhubarb for a short while
 
woo
some kicky kicky action I see
cbg friends
can that user be reported?
I have zero patience for people thinking it is OK to internet rage and insult people behind their keyboard
And not a good play to act this way having all your personal info directly attached to you.
 
This one and Ghost appears to be friends in a voting ring. They did not liked receiving warning I guess
 
I don't have first hand experience of their history. Any of the other RO's familiar with these two?
 
1:18 PM
cabbage... insert that Simpsons gif of walking in, turning around, and walking out
 
If their is a way to report, I'd like too know too.
 
@idjaw see the private channel
 
thanks
 
Not aware of this channel sorry, I removed my explanation.
 
No need to apologize
thanks
 
1:28 PM
\o cbg
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
recbg
 
1:51 PM
@TristanWiley I've been doing Django at my job off and on for the last 9 months or so.
cbg everyone!
 
2:15 PM
cbg
 
cabbage
 
cbg
 
This project has twelve different implementations of the SplineReticulator interface, and one of them failed last night during the automatic spline reticulation process, and there's no stack trace, and when I asked the db guys if they could tell which one the failed spline used, they said "Nah. Can't you just check all of them?". Must be Tuesday.
 
4 hours ago, by Aran-Fey
https://stackoverflow.com/q/51495352/1222951 typo (missing comma between the tuples)
2 votes needed; it's now a mental typo ^ (list vs string in a tuple confusion)
 
I know the spline's flavor is spicy, so one might guess that the SpicySplineReticulator is at fault, but it's ten lines long and none of them look especially buggy
Possibly a spicy spline got fed into the UtterlyGenericSplineReticulator, which can in principle reticulate spicy splines, but why would anyone ever do that
 
2:22 PM
"why would anyone ever do that" sounds like a good start
 
The UGSR is ten million lines long. Maybe I'll go back and look at the SpicySplineReticulator one more time...
 
DSM
Tuesday cabbage.
 
cabbage, DSM
 
cbg DSM
 
DSM
Pet peeve: when I ask a clarification question which I've carefully designed to draw attention to an ambiguity, and the OP decides to answer a different question which preserves the ambiguity instead of ANSWERING THE QUESTION I ASKED.
I MAY NOT LOOK LIKE MUCH BUT I AM ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD AT THIS LET ME DO MY JOB
(whew) We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.
 
2:27 PM
Piggyback pet peeve: when my masterful clarification question is answered by a third party with "the OP probably meant [...]"
The third party's reasoning tends to be sound, but only if you accept the implicit assumption that the OP is a sane and reasonable human being
 
we need a zoo for all our peeves, and a big one
 
Not really interested in writing an answer based on the third party's speculation, only to get a reply from the OP 8 hours later saying "actually, I wanted [ridiculous thing]"
 
I want to contribute chameleon questions to our menagerie
 
It's gonna have a lot of pandas
 
DSM
"I want the most common". "What if there are two that are equally common?" "Give me the one which is the majority." "Again, what if two have the same count? Say it's [1, 2]. Do you want 1 or 2?" "If I have [1, 1, 2], I want 1".
How hard is it to say "I don't care", or "the first seen", or "the smallest", or "randomly sample one, to eliminate bias" or whatever?
 
2:42 PM
Write five separate answers, receive upvotes for all of them from sympathetic readers that know the pain of ambiguous requirements
 
@Kevin that sounds a lot like my job
but then I have some amount of power to make decisions when requirements aren't entirely clear. And if they client doesn't like it, they give slightly clearer requirements and pay for more hours to work on them.
 
3:00 PM
super dupe attracting some awful answers stackoverflow.com/questions/51501402/…
 
Suboptimal target
OP also needs to loop...
 
Yeah definitely a suboptimal target.
 
And their example output seems wrong
 
I edited it to fix syntax errors, it's sitting in a queue somewhere I suppose
 
3:18 PM
I think your edit is wrong too
that's why I don't like it when OP's ambiguous stuff is messed with by others
hmm, OK, perhaps yours is right after all, I just looked at the numbers but not the years
good thing I voted unclear
 
Luckily the accepted answer is not garbage and might actually help someone
 
3:49 PM
I seem to take it personally when people upvote Python answers with blatantly wrong information. :-/
 
is it because by now there already exists a Martijn answer to all python problems that should be upvoted instead?
 
DSM
Heh.
 
Why people? Q: Can I share a local variable value from a method to a function I call, as a global? Why doesn't global <name> in that function work?. A: You can't. <something about member variables, what are member variables Martijn asks?>, You have to know the instance to do that, followed in a second paragraph the actual answer, (put the global statement in the method instead).
 
wim
I can't pass the value as an argument because we haven't learned that yet and my teacher says argument passing is not allowed
 
throws up hands.
 
3:52 PM
I don't think many things make me more irrationally angry than pointlessly contrived programming problems in courses
 
You have to know the instance? That's not what the OP is asking, they are calling from a method so the instance is right there as self. And it's a local for **-sake. But they got 4 upvotes.
</ rant>
sorry bout that.
 
wim
They should just do global self easy fix
 
That pains me for reasons I can't explain
 
recbg
 
3:58 PM
yah, that, too
 
europython tomorrow.
 
too far away for me
 
cbg
Is anyone familiar with file handling on Google colab?
 
can you be more specific?
 
it's the same issue I came in here last time with but instead of numpy, this time I'm using the normal file handler open()
 
I don't know what your issue was the last time but with numpy
 
This should be our official Room 6 bug report form ^
 
@Code-Apprentice I would fill that out if it were editable (ie, not an image).
Ok, so here's the link to the notebook: colab.research.google.com/drive/…
Typical file not found error.
 
MCVE isn't just for the main site
 
You have given us a piece of string in a haystack, but I have an okay nose for string... is '/content/sonar.all-data.csv' supposed to be an absolute path?
 
4:10 PM
you forgot an umlaut
 
häystack?
 
:D
 
@MoxieBall This is the csv I wanted to read: drive.google.com/open?id=1yUDrhuFlKS75qurGJPlKEeiGWmdFvI6B
It's in the same folder as the ipynb file, so I assumed just the name would do.
 
That doesn't seem super pertinent to your problem
have you tried cat /content/sonar.all-data.csv?
 
4 mins ago, by excaza
MCVE isn't just for the main site
 
4:13 PM
@MisterGeeky print it, fill it out, take a pic, upload
 
programmatically upload to a collaborative Google notebook*
 
@MoxieBall cat: /content/sonar.all-data.csv: No such file or directory
 
rb folks
 
typical file not found error -> typical solution?
 
A suggestion: spend less time trying to be funny and more time providing details necessary for others, who are not omniscient, to help you
not sure how many other ways it can be stated to you
 
4:15 PM
@MisterGeeky I find this unsurprising
 
@excaza just read what that was actually. Sorry for that but the problem stated is quite straight forward.
 
@excaza go old school...Crayola!
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, I don't know how to solve it. The typical solution which is?
 
@MisterGeeky You do understand that 200 lines of code and telling us you got a file not found error is in no way, shape, or form a MCVE
 
@MisterGeeky use the right path
 
4:17 PM
@Code-Apprentice would you like Tickle Me Pink or Macaroni and Cheese
 
Jun 27 at 19:37, by wim
Maybe he understood MCVE as Maximal, Complete, and Verbose example
 
@excaza yes
 
whos doing pure fp in python
 
falcon punching?
 
functional programming duuh
 
4:19 PM
like lambda, map, reduce and all the other stuff haskell is known for?
 
file pointers?
 
fruit punch.
 
yeah exactly
 
okay, so what's your actual question?
 
that was it
 
4:20 PM
funky pin-ya-tas!
 
@MisterGeeky from what I understand, list comprehensions are preferred over map and filter.
 
34
Q: Why doesn't Python allow multi-line lambdas?

treecoderCan someone explain the concrete reasons why BDFL choose to make Python lambdas single line? This is good: lambda x: x**x This results in an error: lambda x: x**x I understand that making lambda multi-line would somehow "disturb" the normal indentation rules and would require adding mo...

"[GVR] says that although [lambdas with embedded statement blocks] is possible, it's not congruent with how Python is. "
 
one of the HackerRank regex problems is parsing HTML
 
4:29 PM
> Detect HTML Tags
 
sounds dangerous
 
GVR isn't calling the shots anymore, time for statements in lambdas.
 
I can see tentacles emerging from my screen
 
@excaza one could essentially build a browser with that, no?
 
sure
 
4:30 PM
@excaza sushi would be nice.
@excaza but a browser would need protocol management as well, not just html parsing.
 
4:44 PM
You can't embed an html tag inside another html tag, right? That might make the problem tractable
"find the html tag within this string" being a very different problem from "determine whether this string is legal html"
 
Most of the time when someone says "parsing HTML with regex" it actually means "extracting a tiny amount of information from input that just so happens to be valid HTML"
 
DSM
I will admit there are times when I've wanted to yank stuff, one time, just to check something, where I've regexed it. But even for my own "huh, it'd be nice to read this webcomic without being in a browser" tools I use a real parser.
 
HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo​͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liq​uid pain...
 
Zalgo can't get us as long as we don't recurse
 
same with Bloody Mary who has a re-curse limit of 3
 
4:52 PM
you're fired
 
PEP 666 suggested adding a -TOnly flag that wouldn't run your code if your blocks were indented with anything except tabs... that's evil
Upon further reading, the author wanted it rejected, so it was intended to be evil.
 
Well...with that number
 
wim
@excaza we're not here to judge. what you do in the privacy of your own home is fine.
 
but I'm at work
 
5:06 PM
I don't know if this is the rejecter's reasoning, but: that's not what it looks like in the REPL when you define a one-line function
C:\Users\Kevin\Desktop>py -2
Python 2.7.11 (v2.7.11:6d1b6a68f775, Dec  5 2015, 20:32:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def range1(start, end): return range(start, end+1)
...
>>> range1(1, 10)
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>
You omitted the "..."
 
you also shouldn't be editing other peoples answers in a way that changes the intent significantly
leave a comment
 
wim
It does not change the intent significantly
that improves the answer
 
DSM
5:18 PM
My work notebook has been flaking out lately. Our service desk has been slow to get back to me, and now the online ticket tracker is broken and not letting me authenticate. As plans go, making it hard for complaints about your service to be tracked isn't the worst I've heard.
 
Yeah I was confused because that doesn't change the intent at all, it just gets rid of the named lambda. Not sure why that was interpreted as a bad thing
@wim thanks for editing that
 
wim
well your edit was rejected by a user who never asked or answered a python question so ... :)
they should have click "skip" instead
 
All I really care about is it being right now
 
yeah, the reviewer needs domain knowledge for that one
 
wim
fight on, phyton! ...pyhton is far ahead of you
 
5:30 PM
I guess our alias isn't working
 
wim
pythn watching from across the street
 
ponthy and the 700 other permutations of python that never get accidentally used are in an undisclosed location, preparing for the uprising
 
Ah, the less-known tribute troupe, Ponthy Myton
 
pytonh made its way into someone's directory structure
 
wim
5:51 PM
hehe
pytohn tree point fhour
 
Anyone know if there's anything in the Python bug tracker about uncollectable reference cycles when a class has no __dict__ and empty slots? For example, this is uncollectable:
class Foo:
    __slots__ = ()
    def __del__(self):
        print('__del__')

x = Foo()
I didn't find anything when I searched.
 
Is that in 3.7? Can't repro in 3.6.5
 
wim
it got collected for me
[MCVE]
 
wim
ideone blocked sorry
maybe your cpython build is off
 
5:58 PM
I vaguely recall that sometimes __del__ doesn't get called at the end of a program
 
Try this one:
 
> It is not guaranteed that __del__() methods are called for objects that still exist when the interpreter exits.
 
class Foo:
    __slots__ = ()
    def __del__(self):
        print('__del__')

Foo.x = Foo()

del Foo
 
wim
yeah it didn't go not even after a gc.collect()
 
6:04 PM
A class variable that's an instance of the class sounds like a bad idea to me, is there a use for that pattern?
 
"keep track of all instances" class?
 
I'd prefer the garbage collector to work, even in highly impractical situations
 
The logic in type_new thinks it's safe to make instances of a new class GC-untracked if the base has untracked instances and the new class adds no instance variables, but it doesn't account for reference cycles through the type pointer.
 
@MoxieBall That's how the singleton pattern is implemented, sometimes
 
wim
which is also a bad idea
 
6:09 PM
I don't think that's the consensus opinion
 
wim
This fixed it for me:
class Foo:
    __slots__ = ('__weakref__',)
    def __del__(self):
        print('__del__')
I mean, it doesn't really answer your question, but maybe CPython gc needs/uses that slot ?
 
Anything that makes the subclass instances bigger than instances of the parent would make the type_new logic add the Py_TPFLAGS_HAVE_GC flag. __weakref__ does that, but a __dict__ or any other slot would do it too.
 
wim
LMAO
>>> class Foo:
...     __slots__ = '__dict__',
...
>>> foo = Foo()
>>> foo.x = 'wtf'
that the greatest life hack I've seen today
...anyone want to invest in this memory laundering scam?
 
only if you steal pennies from transactions and put them in the bank
 
Hello Guys, Can anyone help me on how to split text which is in a single row to multiple rows? I am trying .split() but it's giving me an error. The text has whitespace upto 5 characters and I am looking to keep 1 text in one row.
 
6:20 PM
"row" -> what framework? What object? What error?
 
it's a csv file.
 
That's not an answer.
 
i am using csv.DictReader to read the file
 
better, thanks
 
And this is the error: AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'split'
 
6:22 PM
@wim That is priceless
 
@KaranM you should only be splitting strings, not lists. For more specific advice you'll probably have to provide an MCVE
 
@AndrasDeak Thanks for your time and input Andras! I'll do it. :)
 
@staticmethod
def foo():
global self
self.bar = 'b'

won't work, i'm sad
 
@wim I think I've seen that in a tutorial. It shouldn't exist?
 
wim
6:43 PM
did I say memory laundering scam? I meant "exciting new opportunity"
 
Is there a way of linking pyramid and scheme in an attractive way whilst using your class? I could do with a change in my line of work.
avon doesn't look to be taken as a library name
 
you mean MLM :P avon is legit as a brand
 
insert a clever play on LuLaRoe
 
I though ponzi might be a catchy name that avoids brand-shaming but there's a repo with that name already :/
 
DSM
Too bad, that would have been very clever.
 
6:58 PM
does nothing but install pyramid and scheme
 
Correction, it was here https://stackoverflow.com/a/28059785/6345404
But now I'm confuse
 
@excaza you need to up your fraud game, mate
We're out to steal memory. It's like a reverse Inception.
Where we fly around in helicopters and ski and... profit.
 
I'm ashamed already, but: outception
oooh no, hold on, exception
 
Yeah, I was gonna say, we have a word for that one
 
sP_
7:00 PM
What do you call the processes that require terminal to be running? Idk if I'm asking this correctly but for eg, celery worker needs to be running for it to perform, or a django server needs terminal to be on all the time. Is there any term for such type of processes?
 
@sP_ that's a bit weird question. When a process is running in the background it's a demon(ized) process, but the fact that the process is running in a terminal seems like a different kind of detail (that can be changed by disowning the process)
perhaps I misunderstood
 
sP_
@AndrasDeak Quite possible, I'm not good with words.
 
I've got a CharField in my Django form. I also have a subclass that extends that form. I only want the CharField to show in the parent, not the subclass. What's the best way to do this?
 
DSM
@AndrasDeak: daemonized. Because it looks cooler.
 
I wager 2.71828 quatloos that at some point How to extract file name from folder to variable and not list? will ask for variable variables. "Rather than one list of N strings, I'd prefer to have N variables, each one being a single string"
 
7:07 PM
quatloos could do with having a smaller denomination me thinks
 
Side bet: they're actually asking "given that I know that my list comprehension evaluates to a list with exactly one value, how can I get that value by itself, not wrapped in a list?"
 
wim
I use [val] = somelist trick all the time
 
Side track: I've been talking about how the current job I'm working on has... antiquated systems. We have products in our database that list price in d instead of pence, so pre-decimalisation of our currency.
 
wim
just got gold .. give me something to hammer!!
 
Congrats wim
 
7:12 PM
@wim Would a second star do? Congrats :D
 
grats pineapple :D
 
I would pay a princely sum for a "variable variables" dupe target whose accepted answer actually contains a persuasive, detailed, and accessible argument for why it's always a bad idea
 
@DSM that was actually the first version I wrote...
 
... but what about when you need a variable variable? runs away
 
The ones at sopython.com/canon/20/… are all to apologetic, for my tastes. "well, if you really want to do this...". No. I don't care what OP wants. I want OP to be drubbed with the clue stick.
 
wim
7:18 PM
just retag them and pretend it not our problem
 
hehehe, showing a non Python coder print(1+True) is quite entertaining :D
 
I think I sometimes use 'em when routing an http request with dynamic path portions. helps with making request handler that can actually handle requests dynamically, instead of having to write every route ever.
 
wim
variable variables? nah, python can't do that .. you probably want a more mature language like php
 
whistles innocently
 
DSM
7:21 PM
Executive decision: I don't think DSMScript, which definitely needs a better name, will have bools be subclasses of ints.
 
@Kevin but yeah in all honesty, in python I've no opinion, it might effectively be always a bad idea
 
DScriptM
 
What should be done with this question? The OP is leading me down a hole on the except but it has no organic close votes and I don't think it can be clarified? CV unclear?
 
that question is quite too broad
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/51483716/… either too broad or unclear. I think it's just going to lead to discussion to try and answer.
 
DSM
7:34 PM
I like numpy as much as the next guy, really I do, but people who are having trouble understanding basic algorithms shouldn't always just be pointed in the direction of a black box. :-/
 
Is there context?
 
What inspired that comment?
 
just yesterday or so I was arguing that using a pandas dupe for a native csv problem wasn't appropriate. Not the same thing but I share the sentiment.
 
DSM
I was looking at the comment/answer here, but it's not actually a great example of the problem, so I wasn't going to link it-- it just made me think about it.
 
I see
 
DSM
7:37 PM
Every now and then I see people recommend pandas for dealing with a poorly-formatted file, which is actually one of the things pandas is worst at.
 
Well, suggesting numpy on something non-trivial isn't particularly appropriate
And I do dislike answers that use pandas as some parachute drop-in to sort out CSVs
 
I don't mind seeing an answer with "If you are willing to use a third party library, you can do...". But hammering a question with a target that requires pandas? That's just wrong.
 
But I am guilty of trying to use vectorized approaches when the question doesn't ask for it. I wonder where the line should be drawn?
 
@Kevin my point exactly
 
We have decided that you will use pandas for this task, and let no man set aside our divinely inspired judgment
 
DSM
7:42 PM
I think Kevin's drawn the right distinction there. I've written "if you can use pandas" versions of answers when the native way was really painful, but I'd never dupe it unless the OP asked for a pandas solution.
 
@Kevin Pretty sure jpp ranted asked a question about that on meta a few weeks ago.
Interesting that highly qualified people would think so very drastically opposed things about that.
 
Two can play dirty pool: edit the dupe target so it doesn't explicitly require pandas, then post a non-pandas answer
 
their name came to mind, yes
 
I could imagine being on the pro-hammer-with-pandas-targets if I was a very big fan of pandas and I thought it was criminal that it wasn't in the stdlib, and if I thought that I could get it into the stdlib by tricking everyone into thinking it was already in the stdlib, by hammering questions that ask for stdlib solutions, using dupe targets that provide pandas answers
Sort of worming my way into the collective unconscious. One day the BDFL (or equivalent) wakes up, looks at the code base, and thinks, "hmm, wasn't pandas in here before? Must be a file system error that it's not here now. I'll add it in for the next nightly build"
 
Problem with pandas/numpy/scipy is that people use it without knowing Python basics/constructs. As far as I remarked here.
 
7:54 PM
BDFL or equivalent successfully [I N C E P T E D]
 
I'm trying to find the meta question; was it deleted?
 
DSM
There's no way pandas should be stdlib. Changes too frequently, and has way too many dependencies which would also have to become stdlib..
 
I would wish BeautifulSoup or something similar in stdlib...it's really comfy
 
We have always been at war with Eastasia had stdlib modules that change frequently and have wacky dependencies
If not, then how do you explain pandas being in the stdlib?
 
DSM
I'm perfectly happy to have a tighter stdlib and an easy-to-install ecosystem.
 
7:58 PM
@roganjosh If I remember correctly it was quite downvoted, having been deleted after a while is not impossible.
 
DSM
I think D went through a period where they rebuilt their stdlib in a different namespace. There are some builtin modules which could benefit from that (logging, e.g.)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm curious what side of the line they were on?
I don't suppose that's a bad question for me to ask if the opinion was shared publicly on Meta
 
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