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4:01 PM
Isn't there a static process you can run that makes sure that it at least compiles?
i.e. that you don't pass a string to something that says int?
 
php is rather well tested, seems pointless for you to test it again ...
 
I'm definitely not testing that PHP works.
 
@JoeWatkins Nah, I kind of get what he means
 
I'm testing that someone didn't change the type hint.
 
types are enforced at function boundaries at runtime, some checks during inheritance is done at compile time ...
 
4:02 PM
He means that if he has a function accepting an int and someone changes it to string, that nothing is broken
 
I test getters and setters for the same type of reasons.
 
@JoeWatkins But you don't have real compile time, you'll only ever discover when you run it.
 
^
 
More so if you remove the type hint, since strict types + type hint changes should break your tests anyway
 
Exactly @Sean. I'm not so much worried about testing that it's a different type because I'm testing getters and setters.
 
4:03 PM
What's lacking here is some sort of build process to make sure everything simply compiles.
 
It's someone removing the type hint that would break stuff potentially.
 
@Allenph How do you test for removing the type hint?
 
Good point. Didn't think of that one.
 
To be fair, if you have any coverage at all for the function, changing the type hint would instantly fail the tests
Because the tests would try to invoke the function
(I'm using an umbrella term "function" to describe declared functions, function expressions and methods)
There's nothing you can test for, save for actually reading and parsing the code, to prevent someone from removing a type hint.
Because no type hint is strictly weaker than any type hint
 
You're right. I guess that answers my question.
 
Add an ::interface magic constant similar to ::class – #76083
 
wat
 
Why?
Interface::class
 
@Trowski Yeah couldn't make it this year.... looks like the pub crawl was fun though.
 
Anonymous
class_implements(SomeClass::class)[Bar::interface]
 
Anonymous
4:13 PM
hm
 
burninated
 
@Trowski if only it were somewhere closer to me
 
@Tiffany Submit some talks, maybe you can get your ticket paid for.
Or pitch it to your work, maybe they would sponsor your attendance.
 
like I have anything/know anything regarding PHP that would be worth presenting
 
Phar::isCompressed always returning False – #76084
 
4:16 PM
@Jeeves I am intrigued by this though, nothing seems to have changed in that SAPI between 7.1 and 7.2, I'm even considering building it and setting up IIS...
 
Speaking of which, when is the next decent conference?
 
in fact @Tiffany what version of PHP do you run under IIS?
 
@Tiffany I'm certain you do actually. If you've used Amp at all, there's a lot of presentations you could do.
 
I'm in a pretty good position to get work to pay for it, so.
 
@DaveRandom mumbles5.3.28mumbles
 
4:17 PM
errr... lol :-P
 
Anonymous
waaat
 
Anonymous
NW ended
 
This weekend I spoke to someone still supporting an app on 5.2… so yeah…
 
Anonymous
when was that a thing?
 
announced at the end of last year
 
Anonymous
4:18 PM
I thought they were making a killing out of that.
 
they did say "never say never" but I suspect it won't happen again unless someone else takes on the responsibility of being an organiser
 
nominate Jay
 
Anonymous
black jack and hookers.
 
@JayIsTooCommon not really, it was costing Magma money in the sense that they were devoting many unpaid business hours to it, not to mention the unpaid non-business hours that Jeremy, Rick and many others were also putting into it
the ticket sales/sponsorship more or less covered the venue costs on the day etc, but in the last couple of years I don't think even that was true
 
Anonymous
sucks :(
 
Anonymous
4:21 PM
Left with PHPUK...
 
yeh which is ridiculous, price-wise
 
Anonymous
indeedy
 
I'd rather do dpc/bnl I think
there's scotland and yorkshire though
 
Anonymous
Scotland i've heard bad things about
 
Anonymous
not the place, the conf
 
4:22 PM
they've only done one
same goes for yorkshire
 
Anonymous
Yeah - but the organiser is .. apparently a bit meh meh.
 
dunno. I haven't paid much attention to either of them thus far, because I couldn't attend either
 
Anonymous
PHP Amsterdam has always appealed to me
 
Anonymous
but then that might be because of Pieter
 
I can do booms and learn about PHP at the same time?
 
Anonymous
4:24 PM
:B
 
heh should already be able to do that
 
"do booms"?
 
smoke it up
 
sounds like a child-friendly slang for taking a dump
 
@DaveRandom I thought they were annoyed at Scotland for scheduling their on so near to NW.
 
Anonymous
4:25 PM
You're such a dad.
 
ya lol
(=
 
Booms are mushrooms you uncultured swine.
 
evenings room
 
@Danack thanks, a colleague was able to find the exact issue in existing bug reports... unfortunately the cause is still a bit unknown as it is very hard to reproduce but seems very related to reaching opcache limits... bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=71135
 
4:26 PM
you might have a better understanding of PHP after that...
 
ah. well I doubt you would get much learning done in that case
 
yo @Linus
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom stop it. This isn't you.
 
@jjok no idea
@JayIsTooCommon don't get me wrong, I'm very much pro-shroom
 
@JayIsTooCommon There's a very good chance of a PHP unconf in Bristol this year.
2
 
4:27 PM
but my main memories of shrooms tend to be related to colours and how much I enjoyed watching inanimate objects
@Danack orly?
 
RLY.
 
Anonymous
@Danack I imagine Bristol would be a popular location, especially after the SW end
 
Our user group is almost big enough to justify doing a conference thing by ourselves e.g. getting 40 people for the normal meetups, so for a big event, could get 60-75.
With people coming in from elsewhere, and yes @JayIsTooCommon Bristol is an easier place to get to for a large number of people, could get quite decent numbers.
 
@DaveRandom You definitely didn't go deep enough.
At least 5 grams. You'll learn some shit then.
 
4:31 PM
I can't remember how it worked tbh, it's a long time since you could buy them legally here and I haven't really bothered since then
 
So lame. We've been using mushrooms basically forever. Several studies I can point to for their efficacy in treating mental disorders and having positive effects on people.
All you hear about are the morons that treated it like Meth and ended up freaking out or teenagers who did it at school or something.
 
tbf that's true of basically every recreational drug except cocaine
 
really do not do that :-P
 
Why? The CIA gets to sell it and use it.
 
4:36 PM
I'm pretty liberal when it comes to this sort of thing but seriously, fuck cocaine
 
I don't want to do it, but.
It's better for everyone if it's legal, IMO.
 
@DaveRandom look at it as natural selection
 
@Danack Have you heard any more about that? Lee was talking about it around the time of the EM unconf.
 
Anonymous
@tereško this
 
Anonymous
though probs not fair on the innocent walking around a bunch of smack heads
 
4:46 PM
@sumitkumarpradhan and? why are you spamming?
 
5:04 PM
What do you mean Tiffany? What a great technological break through.
 
@Allenph I didn't click on it
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I clicked on it. Your gut instinct was right.
 
5:44 PM
Moenigngs
@JayIsTooCommon you needed me?
 
@jjok No, hoping there might be an announcement soon.
 
@MadaraUchiha til naruheso
 
you learning japanese?
 
6:20 PM
Anyone watched the "Last Week Tonight" last night?
 
Seen the nra one last
 
Yesterday, he talked about bitcoin and blockchain.
Keygan michael key was there too.
You know from key & peele
It wasn't very descriptive but still valuable
 
I don't remember what that is
But I think I remember I don't like them :)
 
Yeah, it was from cautionary point of view.
 
Ginna watch it tonight
But first fooood \o/
 
6:27 PM
it's creepy when all the electricity goes out and computer stays on ...
I was too brave, trying to make tea and cook at the same time ...
 
I am used to it by now.
 
6:50 PM
@JoeWatkins problems with wiring still?
I should get a battery backup for my computer... I grew used to living diagonally from the fire department and my power never going off, even if 1/2-3/4s of the city lost electricity.
 
@mega6382 I saw it.
It was pretty high level...but definitely worth watching for the normies.
 
yes
 
I've known a ton of people that got sucked into that without knowing how it worked and what it was for.
It was just a straight Tulip fest.
@LeviMorrison Vivint AF
 
So, true, and not just bitcoin but other cryptocurrencies too, especially the fake ones, with ponzi scheme models.
 
BitCoin has bin a big win for the cyber anarchists. And you know, people call it volatile but it makes sense for it to rise extremely fast (too fast) and then die down in a big way when it is so obviously a better alternative to modern fiat currencies.
People are tired of having their savings manipulated by the central powers that are supposed to be preventing that kind of thing.
 
7:16 PM
 
@Tiffany it's not a problem, as such ... it's just that when you draw more juice than you signed up for, they cut you off for a couple of minutes ...
 
Wes
7:31 PM
@kelunik should the class synopsis contain the methods inclusive of parameters and types, or should it show just the method name?
 
@Wes Not sure.
 
@JoeWatkins o_O
 
Wes
@kelunik i am trying something and hell it's a fuckton of information
it might be useful if the method name is not great, otherwise is very superfluous
 
8:05 PM
potential money to be made: a better sudoku website
web sudoku is a decent site, but if I want to share a puzzle with someone, it only lets me do it via email. There's no link.
 
Wes
8:25 PM
@PaulCrovella ever tried to read documents at unicode.org? it's like jumanji
 
@Wes yeah, finding what you need can be kinda hit and miss
 
Moderator elections are happening
 
is @Jeeves eligible yet?
 
Don't think so.
 
not interested
 
8:31 PM
... let's nominate Jeeves and have the ai respond to the comments
 
Lets nominate @PeeHaa
 
Wes
i was wondering if unicode has/suggests a character to be used as base character for grapheme clusters composed only by combining glyphs
 
or @DaveRandom, or @tereško
 
lol, can you imagine @tereško as mod? like, in two weeks, there won't be a single question left on SO
 
Wes
"x@@@@"
@ = combining character
x = base character
@PaulCrovella
if i don't have "x", what could i use there? apart none obviously
 
8:35 PM
today in international news, large uproars in India as a popular website seem to have banned most countries in the world from using it
 
Wes
i need it for grapheme sequence concatenation. i don't want
"x@@@@" + "@@@@" to be "x@@@@@@@@", i want it to be "x@@@@?@@@@"
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier India would be mostly okay
 
Wes
swift mentions something in regard but it's vague and i have no idea how to try out apple stuff
 
@Wes ...I'm kind of working with Swift atm... mainly Xcode though. Though I can't offer any suggestions for what you're doing, sorry. :(
 
8:37 PM
Is it okay to have multiple assertions in one test?
On one hand it makes the failure ambiguous...
 
Wes
@Allenph yes
 
But on the other hand sometimes methods can't be tested independently from each other.
 
Wes
@Tiffany thanks, anyway i don't even know what to check there
all languages have a primitive unicode implementation, even new languages
 
From what I've read so far, Swift seems like a fun language, but I also haven't dug very far either. There's probably some pile of crap if I dig far enough.
 
Wes
because all the graphemes stuff is relatively new
and it's no surprise since unicode is massive
and wtf that site is a jungle
 
8:40 PM
@Wes why and could you point me to what swift said?
 
Wes
hold on let me find it again
 
on the face of it I don't like it, as anything you put there for ? will be indistinguishable from that ? already being there
 
Wes
it's here developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Swift/… -__- but apple has no knowledge of html #anchors
@PaulCrovella what ? already being there?
 
@Wes 'i want it to be "x@@@@?@@@@"'
that ?
 
Wes
if a grapheme cluster is "incomplete", i'm adding a base character, don't know which, so that:
"x@@@@" . "@@@@" is equivalent to writing:
"x@@@@" . "�@@@@"
that concatenation gets you two grapheme clusters rather than one
 
8:47 PM
@Wes and I'm saying I don't like it as you can't tell the difference between you adding that character and that character already being there... also I don't see where in that doc it's discussed
 
Wes
i don't know, i just had the page bookmarked
it was long time ago
need to tackle this unicode thing
i've read like 30 documents while in the bed earlier today, it's like i read nothing
i don't even know where to start reading :\
i ended up on pages that looked like erratums
maybe i should read icu's documentation instead
 
@Wes I don't know, but I would use zwnj probably
 
if you need your thing to start with a non-combining character, then validate that on creation. either way concatenate things as they are. I would not be munging in characters yourself without very strong justification.
 
is "shits and gigs" not a suitable justification?
 
Wes
$a = u("x@@@");
$b = u("@@@");
assert($a->count() === 1);
assert($b->count() === 1);
$c = $a->concat($b);
assert($c->count() === 2);
i expect this to be valid
but if i don't add a base character i will only get a single cluster with that concatenation
 
8:54 PM
$b doesn't represent a valid (complete) grapheme though
 
Wes
indeed, an error could be another solution
which is probably better than adding characters at random
 
the thing is though, concatenating those two things is still a valid thing to do
what exactly is $c?
if the answer to that is "a unicode string", then the issue is that count() is not a specific enough method name
 
is u supposed to be any valid unicode string then just having combining characters is fine and should not error
and concatenating them should not add arbitrary shit in between
 
Wes
@PaulCrovella yeah, that's the dilemma
 
Hey, besides phpinternals.net and phpinternalsbook.com, is there any other source to study internals as well? :)
 
Wes
8:58 PM
@DaveRandom another u(), which is a sequence of grapheme clusters (not code points)
 
what do I do if I want a sequence of code points?
 
Wes
@DaveRandom u("...")->cps()
 
@Wes if your count is in graphemes, then there is no reason to necessarily expect $c's to be 2
 
@GabrielCaruso hang out in this room
 
9:00 PM
a unicode string is a sequence of code points, the resulting sequence of graphemes is what you might call an "emergent property" (I suppose)
Something that explicitly represents a sequence of graphemes is a presentation-layer thing
 
@ircmaxell Thanks, I'll start to study than, and when some relevant question arises, I'll make it!
 
Wes
i need to read more about it before i can pick a decision
 
I'm about to go ask for a raise and part of it is going to one conference per year. When's the next one you guys would suggest?
 
I'm not really familiar with the US conference circuit, sorry
 
Do you guys usually not travel out of country?
I was hoping I could get on that. I've never left here before.
 
Wes
9:05 PM
@DaveRandom @PaulCrovella it is weird that a sequence of length 4 concatenated to a sequence of length 5 produces a sequence of length 8
of course i could not give a fuck, but that's the easy solution i'm doing currently
it's probably misleading and thus wrong :P
 
@Wes not when that length is in something like graphemes
 
Wes
arguably, maybe
 
that unit is dependent on what it is next to. when you change what it is next to, it can hence change.
 
...which betrays the fact that it is not actually a unit
it is a composite
 
Wes
9:08 PM
unicode probably does specify the behavior for this scenario
i just need to find it.... just :B
 
if you have two buckets of soup and dump them both into one larger bucket, you no longer have two buckets of soup - you have one
i've no idea why they're buckets of soup specifically, but the point stands
 
Wes
i don't disagree... i'm fine with all solutions except there is one that is explicitly suggested in the standard
wanna know how it feels being in a gravitational singularity? visit unicode.org and start reading
 
I still haven't escaped the gravity well of the xsd spec
 
Wes
lol
 
@PaulCrovella no I would say this is more like having a car, and a bag full of spare car parts. When you combine them, you don't necessarily get two serviceable cars, it's quite possible that you only get one really stupid looking one
 
9:13 PM
@DaveRandom can the car be full of soup?
 
sure, but try to keep it off the upholstery
 
@Wes also keep in mind that your logic breaks down when you start splitting strings, e.g. "@@@" (with a count of 1) broken up into "@" "@" "@" - each won't have counts of 1/3
 
Wes
you are not allowed to do that, you can split graphemes, not in the midst of a grapheme. you can do that only if you are working with code points
 
the tl;dr here is that your basic unit should be a collection of code points, and counting the graphemes in it is a computation
 
Wes
no
tried that, doesn't work
well unless you are fine with normalizing all over the place
brb need dinner
 
9:17 PM
I am fine with normalizing all over the place.
 
counting code points is already a computation
 
only if your underlying storage is a byte array has an associated encoding
 
if he's using an array of integers he's probably better off just going with utf-32 strings
 
yeh that is the problem with that approach, but I'm not convinced it's a particularly big problem for typical modern applications on typical modern hardware
anyway, /me has rl to do
continue tomorrow
o/
 
Wes
9:22 PM
\o
 
@Wes you don't need to normalize all over the place
 
@Trowski hey I wanted to thank you. I was able to get this figure out. I just had to refactor the code a bit to accept dependency injections.
 
9:41 PM
@Danack nice :D
 
Wes
@PaulCrovella well, it's not transparent
but will update you all once i read more on the topic
i might have found a path
 
@mega6382 I tend to balance on and over the edge of what SO wants from people and SO is broken and the SO team is actively looking for ways to break it even miore. So no thanks :)
 
@PeeHaa don't worry, you'd just be a puppet. we'd put jeeves in charge of your account.
 
I like that idea
Jeeves for mod on monsterboard SO \o/
 
10:17 PM
@Trowski however. I do notice when dealing with large datasets that the amp-process can get pegged at 100% utilization and never come back :-(
 
@systematical Please report it as issue with a reproduce case.
 
@kelunik do you have any debug setups you can provide that might be pertinent to the case?
 
Segmentation fault in buildFromIterator when directory name contains a \n – #76085
 
@systematical debug setups?
 
@kelunik yes, would amphp be writing logs somewhere or anything like that
 
10:59 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I think you have no clue how lazy I actually am
 
more skyrim?
I guess one more episode of Code Geass then I need to do something productive tonight
 
unrelatingly, humble bundle is quite ok. I've bought more books I'll never read about functional programming than I'll ever read, but the bundles are often quite cool
.. but I did manage to get that sound bundle, with actual programs that I do use when recording violin, stuff that cost like 500$ for 30$
 
11:24 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier this?
 
11:42 PM
@Tiffany that's the site, yes
Who's owning the creation of the html representation of the photoUrl property of an entity?
I use this hack with <object> to have a photo fallback to a default image if the photoUrl is not-found jsfiddle.net/gqbhzyfz/2
@Wes around?
 
Wes
ye
 
11:58 PM
Do you think that is more suited for html & css ^^
 
Wes
i'm not sure about that
i haven't used object in ages
 
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