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3:12 PM
I know this is probably not the place, but does anyone know how to determine the running time of simple functions. I can't seem to understand it
 
@MalikBrahimi Do you mean python functions?
 
This is, in fact, the place.
 
time
 
Just a generic algorithm (not talking about time modules)
 
This is, in fact, not the place.
That looks like homework. Maybe ask your teacher?
 
3:15 PM
Here's an opportunity to act upon the thing we discussed during the room meeting. MalikBrahimi, what gives you the impression that you can't ask Python questions in the Python room? We want to encourage an open and friendly environme-- oh, it's not a Python question. Never mind.
 
okay then
 
@Kevin nice try :-)
 
I am trying to accept input from Python, am using Sublime Text 3. I am following stackoverflow.com/questions/70797/… but after pressing Enter it inserts new line instead of executing the program. What could be the problem
 
DSM
This is definitely not the place to explain the sort of thing covered in junior-high Sunday school classes, so I'll resist the temptation.. morning cabbage for all!
 
I'll leave a single parting hint: runtime and computational complexity are different things, and only one of them can be measured on pseudocode.
 
3:18 PM
Funnily enough, just searching "computer science complexity analysis" quickly arrives at a good resource on cs.se.
 
computational complexity is what I know to be measured on pseudo code
 
What happened to the good old days of just smashing the keyboard until the computer did what you wanted? Oh no wait... I think that's still a technique in use...
 
ik,juh .' works for me wazsdefe
 
@JonClements It does not work, after all I dont see why would you continually press the keys if the program is behaving oddly
 
DSM
Devs kept doing it so eventually they decided just to make golfing languages out of keyboard-smash syntax. I mean, have you seen the shortest codes on golf these days?
 
3:22 PM
pineapples with your cbg DSM (referring to the star wall that the ninja has posted)
 
@DSM I was looking at some Jelly code the other day... At least - the author said it was code... I thought Tony the Pony was coming for me after referring to that html regex post so much...
 
DSM
I have to admit I think using languages intended for golf isn't quite cricket.
 
@JWizard are you running the program from the command line? I'm afraid I don't know what sublime text is. Is it a shell?
 
DSM
Sublime is a popular code editor.
 
Then pressing enter in it .. will just insert a newline and not run any code
 
3:28 PM
@DSM "I've managed to get this Javascript/Python/C/whatever code down to 90bytes!" is more impressive than "Hey look 7 bytes of characters you'd never normally find/use on a keyboard - here's an essay explaining what that 7 bytes does!" :)
 
@JonClements srjvjsytrayeayejyaejejaeayeuaujsrytjrstrsij – and it still doesn’t work any better than in the past…
 
Maybe when you're a more experienced keyboard smasher you'll go far - you've clearly got potential :p
 
DSM
@JonClements: yep. I'm sure there are very clever tricks being performed in some of the golf languages too, but it's much harder to appreciate them.
 
@Jon Thank you, wise puppy.
 
@DSM I'm not sure things like having a single character for "create a list of ascii upper case letters" are that impressive either...
 
@davidism sorry won't happen again
 
@DSM I should just create a language called "golfer" and it takes a code golf question number and nicks any working answers already present and runs those in the language given :)
Ahhh... but - by then KevinScript (tm) shall be here to rule them all... so not worth it...
 
is there anything more idiomatic to pytest for requests other than just using requests-mock?
 
not pytest specific, but I've used responses
 
KevinScript - The Language At The End Of The Universe
 
3:46 PM
Grr... annoying when people do things like that.
 
That comment under the answer too: "this is just what I needed". Proceeds to ask about problem with it.
 
It is annoying for sure but I think that is a good example to the harsh environment chat/the main site has sometimes. "down vote due to lack of effort"
 
DSM
@ZackTarr: hover over the downvote button and read the official description of when we should downvote.
 
Flag a comment if you don't think it's appropriate.
 
Very true. Its more just the way it can be read. Its not too bad, just saw it as a good example of the tone discussion we had yesterday during the meeting.
 
DSM
3:58 PM
Time to go try to explain to a data provider that sending passwords in plaintext is not exactly best practice..
 
Downvoting due to lack of effort is fine. Commenting "downvoting due to lack of effort" feels a little to me like twisting the knife.
 
@Kevin Thats how I saw it. It needs down voted. But they are kicking them while they are down.
 
@davidism Thank you for the link to my question, but still unsure about it, but as you mentioned it was a recently asked question and I would not be following the chat room rules. Should I ask you on my original question or the post you linked to as I am still getting confused with the matter?
 
Posting a new question with "I asked a question about this code previously, and the answers fixed problem X, but now I'm getting problem Y" is fine. And in fact it's far better than the usual alternative of "ask the answerer follow-up questions, stringing them along and never giving them an accept". I guess it's a little skeezy if you copy-paste the code that fixes X without mentioning your old post in your new post.
I'll take a little skeeze over thirty minutes of "one more thing..." though
 
@mp252 You just have to give it some time on the main site to get as many eyes on the question in a space where they can get credit for answering the question. All about that rep life.
 
4:04 PM
ok, but @davidism marked as possible duplicate, so wanted to ask a question about the duplicate. But I will wait
 
You shouldn't ask me, you should ask Stack Overflow with a minimal, complete, and verifable example and someone might be able to answer.
Also, please stop pinging me.
And if I had marked it as a duplicate, it would be closed, I just left a comment because I don't really have time to dig through your post and figure out if it really is a duplicate.
 
recbg
 
ok sorry, noted.
 
@davidism ah yes! I'll give that a go. thanks
 
Progress meeting. Boss' boss' boss doesn't seem very interested in the 300 hour task I'm working on, but is very pleased about the fifteen minute task I completed last week.
Lesson: end users don't give a dang about how many man-hours a feature required; they care about how it improves their experience.
The 300 hour task only improves user experience in the sense that it reduces the likelihood that the whole site permanently 404s because the regulatory standards committee crushed our server into a cube and threw it into the ocean
Our server is already a cube, but they'll crush it anyway on the principle of the thing.
 
these sqlalchemy engine events seem to be funny
 
5:04 PM
Who here is taking a lunchbreak at 130pm EST?
 
"I've yet to produce a MCVE" seems like a good way to get filtered into the "look at this later" bin
 
130pm? Is that 130 hours after noon? So 10pm +5 days?
 
I took a lunch break yesterday at 1:30 PM est
my general lunch break is at 1 PM est...
 
@Kevin That comes right after the “I cannot expose more than I already have since I am bound by legal obligations” which I got today.
 
Im taking mine at 1:30 est due to my manager seeing the need to have a meeting at 11 and noon...
 
5:08 PM
When question askers give woefully incomplete code with no justification, you have to ask yourself how much begging will be required to get something useful out of them. At least with "I am legally not allowed to give you an MCVE" you know where you stand: no amount of begging will work.
Save for begging in the form of lobbying congress to repeal all NDA laws
@toonarmycaptain I assume you are asking this because you're in UTC+7, planning on having a 1:30 AM snack, and decided this would be an excellent time to coordinate an Earth sandwich with a UTC - 5 conspirator.
 
But that also says “I cannot give you more information, and I don’t want to bother trying to reproduce the problem in a MCVE, so help me anyway”
(The question was basically about “If I do X, Y should happen but that doesn’t work. Why?” and then I said that that’s exactly what happens, asking for more information about the specific problem that could cause this)
 
As someone who has trouble letting go of bad questions, I appreciate a nice objective indicator that it's time to abandon ship, such as "I can't give you more information than I already have"
NDA-bound askers drag down the average quality of questions, but drag up the average quality of my daily experience.
 
The usual response to "I can't share, there's an NDA" is "get a consultant" and as a consultant, that worries me because there's some times where I'd definitely need SO's help.
Unless there's any potential clients in here, in which case, I'm an expert. Ignore the above message.
 
When asking questions about NDA code, I just write my own MCVE with dummy names using the same concept/library/syntax/whatever under question.
 
Working the the heathcare field I have run into the same thing and Ive always done the same practice as @Code-Apprentice
 
5:21 PM
@toonarmycaptain me me! T-minus 69 minutes!
 
@Kevin There's a small rocket launching today.
@Code-Apprentice :D
 
I already have the YouTube feed open
@toonarmycaptain /cough small /cough
 
@toonarmycaptain More like Elon is towing his own car out of this world, you know, to see what other worlds feel like...
Or maybe it's just a small gift (feed) to the megatrons!
 
I want to listen to the call to the DMV. "Hi I want to deregister my car."
"Has it been sold, stolen, written off?"
"No, I launched it near Mars."
"I don't have a procedure for that. Please hold for my supervisor."
5
 
supervisor scratches head, writes it off as "sunk in the Milky Way".
 
5:33 PM
"can't reproduce" stackoverflow.com/q/14424842/2301450 dead old question, no roomba
 
Alternatively:
"No, I launched it near Mars."
[completely unimpressed] "Fill out this form and turn it in down the hall in the space travel sub-department"
 
I just want there to be a call recorded. I imagine the unsuspecting operator would hang up.
 
user6568562
6:00 PM
Come oooon, just launch it already. It's already there!
 
They have to wait until the hole in the ozone layer is directly overhead or else they'll smash into it
3
 
user6568562
I wonder how long after the colonization of Mars, Flat Mars "theorists" will exist.
 
user6568562
@Kevin Ha !
 
user6568562
That's very reasonable.
 
Mars isn't flat. Flat implies two dimensions and it's clearly 0-dimensional because it can only be resolved as a point with the naked eye
 
6:03 PM
Currently it says T-2hrs
 
It's fitting that this conversation about space is generating so many stars
 
DSM
Heh.
 
Did the launch get delayed? My YouTube feed says "Live in 117 minutes" rather than the expected 17 minutes.
 
T-0 delayed to 2:20 p.m. EST, 19:20 UTC due to upper level wind shear. Continuing to monitor winds and will update as info becomes available.
 
6:15 PM
What if the car he is sending is an autobot who got lost on Earth and is now being reunited with his family on Mars, the exact location of which the rover found out!?
 
wim
Is there a good existing answer for this thing anywhere?
i.e. setup.py should not import your package if it has external deps
surely this has been answered a million times
 
@AshishNitinPatil Because Elon is from alien reptile race who are allies with the autobots
and he built tesla as a cover for his ongoing alliance with them.
 
I don't trust that guy.
He is the PayPal Mafia, who created a boring company which sells flamethrowers.
 
Ooh, apparently they're gonna recover the fairing?
 
wim
@Kevin define 'resolved'
>>> 1 or unresolved + expression
1
 
6:23 PM
@wim: From the traceback, it looks like that person explicitly imported their own package in setup.py. It's not something pip or setup did for them.
 
wim
@user2357112 yes, that's what I wrote?
> In order to do that, you're importing Identicon
 
@AshishNitinPatil what's not to trust about that?
 
wim
It's ironic that he wants to get the car industry of fossil fuels with Tesla and then he burns up all the fossil fuels with SpaceX anyway
maybe the whole Tesla thing was just part of the grand plan so there's more fuels avail for flamethrowers and Mars domination?
 
6:39 PM
what fossil fuels are used by spacex?
oh...kerosene, prolly, huh?
 
I thought it was more of a mix of simple chemicals to make the fuel. Now Im curious
 
@wim: ah, I misunderstood you
 
Looks like Kerosene is used. Didnt know that. interesting!
 
RP-1, right?
 
@toonarmycaptain Thats what I read.
This isnt a python question but Im pretty sure this is a question straight from a homework assignment asking how to do questions 0 to 17.... stackoverflow.com/questions/48649794/…
 
DSM
6:43 PM
Complete troll. I don't even think it's homework.
 
Does stack get a lot of troll questions?? Ive not seen any but I am still pretty new to stack overall.
 
DSM
Not that many, all things considered. The trolls tend not to stop at just one, though.
 
If OP is not a troll, they seem to be operating under the assumption that we all know exactly what labs they're talking about. Theory: the assignment instructions say "if you have trouble, ask on StackOverflow" without explaining that SO is not the dedicated website for that textbook
 
@DSM Umm... I'm not sure if I'm abusing pandas or not on stackoverflow.com/questions/48648773/… - feeling I might have overcomplicated it?
 
4
Q: How to iterate through two lists with iter() and yield?

DuckQueenA simple example: popen = subprocess.Popen(cmd, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE, universal_newlines=True, shell=True) for stdout_line in iter(popen.stdout.readline, ""): # how to add popen.stderr.readline check? yield stdout_line We read from popen.stdout, yet we also wan...

wat?
 
6:48 PM
Just was trying to think of a way of just adding a column, sorting on that, then dropping it again... but that may well be better overall because of how things work anyway
 
DSM
I'm confused by that question, because I don't yet understand why a sort isn't acceptable.
 
aww, more SpaceX delays ;-(
 
@DSM took me a bit to work it out - but they should be together based on the ordering of the key's appearance in the frame - not the value of the key itself...
 
DSM
But that doesn't seem to match with "If it retains order of appearance that's fine, but not mandatory."
 
Oh - didn't see that bit - thought the OP confirmed what I was asking... grrrr.... lemme look again
 
6:54 PM
Launch auto-sequence initiated (aka the holy mouse-click) for 3:45 liftoff #FalconHeavy
 
DSM
Yet another meeting to attend. Let me know how this one turns out. :-)
 
@DSM have fun... think I'll leave that one alone for now - I'm back to confused myself again... :p
 
user6568562
@Code-Apprentice Man oh man oh man.
 
@JonClements that is included in the standard loopholes :(
and cbg
 
@Code-Apprentice I interpret this as "given two objects that both implement a blocking read method, how can I read both at the same time and yield whichever one stops blocking first?"
So... With threading, I guess
 
7:08 PM
stackoverflow.com/users/234/orion-edwards – is that a Martijn imposter? :o
 
SO has a chronic small ninja problem, pay them no mind
 
@poke much longer-time user of SO than our ninja, actually
of course that doesn't say anything about the avatars
 
Yeah
 
I think Martijn has gone on record as saying that he doesn't have a worldwide exclusive license to use the small ninja avatar, and so we should not accost other small ninjas and accuse them of being big phonies when we see them on the street. Paraphrasing.
 
i.e. Martijn is the phony one D:
 
7:12 PM
I have seen pictures of Martijn and his head is not shaped like a loaf of bread, as his avatar might lead you to believe
 
7:32 PM
Just so I know. Anything that makes his answer "better" than mine on this stackoverflow.com/questions/48650477/…
 
Yours is better than Justin's but worse than marmeladze's. Yours returns a concatenation of exactly two words, when OP wants the potential for far more, such as "howwhywhatwho". They probably also want to ensure that there aren't any duplicates, such as "whowho". Marmeladze's avoids duplicates and yours doesn't.
 
sigh Classic
 
Ahh I see I see. I figured it had something to do with the duplicates. Just didnt know random.sample existed
 
Before I knew sample existed I would get N non-duplicate items randomly from a list with random.shuffle(seq); print(seq[:n]). But I suspect that's inefficient
 
Naturally, the documentation doesn't mention the time complexity of shuffle or sample, so it's hard to say
 
7:44 PM
Let's see, grepping cpython/Modules/_randommodule.c for shuffle shows... zero hits. And zero hits for sample. Is this thing on?
 
shuffle is a Fisher-Yates shuffle, so this is linear..
 
Maybe cpython/Lib/random.py is a better place to look
 
And generating the next random number is constant time too, since this just calculates the next step in the period.
 
Here is sample: github.com/python/cpython/blob/…. Looks like it avoids duplicates with a regular old set.
So getting N items can take considerably more than N iterations
 
random.sample should be asymptotically linear to the sample size (in worst case, the random algorithm could repeatedly choose already choosen elements from the population but that won’t weigh too much)
 
7:47 PM
There's also random.choices
 
choices, with default weighting is absolutely linear.
 
Hmm on second read it changes strategy depending on whether the input list has fewer than 20 elements, or more. Only one branch uses the set approach.
 
The other branch copies the population in a list and then basically probes one item from it which is then swapped to the end to avoid duplicates. I guess this is a micro optimization which uses knowledge about how sets and lists are implemented..
won’t affect complexity though
 
Yeah that's O(len(population)) which is no worse than the asymptotic behavior of the set-using branch
Conclusion: sample and my hacky shuffle-then-slice approach have the same complexity.
 
I would assume that creating a list out of a sequence is actually better than O(len(sequence)). Sequences are likely arrays with consecutive memory anyway, so that can be copied as a block.
 
7:55 PM
I would expect copying a block of contiguous memory to be blazing fast, but I'm not convinced that it would be better-than-linear
 
But wait, isn't shuffle linear with the size of the input, and sample is linear with the sample size?
 
These conversations are the reason I sit in chat all day.
 
Maybe mumble mumble caching handwave hardware acceleration
 
Yeah, using shuffling for sampling is perfectly fine. I’d say that’s the usual approach in more native languages (at least that’s how I do it and how I’ve seen it being done in C all the time)
memcpy will be a lot faster than iterating a sequence of the same list doing whatever :P
But we’re micro optimizing here anyway. None of that matters :D
 
I don't want fast, I want efficient ;-)
 
7:57 PM
(a statement which is not actually confirmed by the implementation which micro-optimizes sampling for population sizes below 21… lol)
 
@Kevin Is there ever an example where efficient code would not be the fastest? Just curious.
 
alriiight. I'm going to try to put together an MCVE for something I'm not convinced is the only way to do this, and we're going to constructively criticize my MCVE and hopefully help me in my dilemma
 
@Aran-Fey Don't let the for i in range(k): fool you; it's the pool = list(population) that pushes it to O(len(population))
 
go go gadget MCVE
 
sample = [4, 6, 1, 6, 2, 8, 1, 9, 3, 5] # chosen by a fair d10, constant time.
@idjaw Now I’m excited.
 
7:59 PM
I'm currently trying to use requests_mock (having a hard time with responses) and pytest. The code I'm using is using requests.Session
 
… and there goes my excitement.
 
LOL
Now. Because I'm using requests.Session, I believe my mocking has to be done within the session adapter. So far, I've managed to get it working like this:
    adapter = requests_mock.Adapter()
    adapter.register_uri('GET', 'mock://stuff', text='data')

    my_client.session.mount('mock', adapter)
 
@ZackTarr Consider this image:
 
in my real code, I'll simply be using session.get()
 
@Kevin Please tell me you just drew that pretty thing and didn’t get it from Google
 
8:01 PM
I got it from google.
 
*sigh*
 
Among these, the efficiencies from best to worst are: constant, logarithmic, linear, quadratic. But towards the left of the graph we can see that quadratic beats the other three for small Ns, and linear beats logarithmic and constant for small Ns, and logarithmic beats constant for small Ns.
In other words, the less efficient algorithms can be faster than the more efficient ones.
 
My issue is that it seems like I have to hook everything using mock:// so it uses that particular mock adapter? I've tried with the context manager in my fixture, and I can't get it to hook in to mocking the request inside session
 
(Note that linear does not always have to have such a slope)
 
Yep that clicked for me @Kevin its just been awhile since I worked with O() and all of the actual math that goes into CS.
 
8:03 PM
Yeah all of these lines might intersect at totally different points depending on the constant coefficients which are traditionally ignored during complexity analysis
 
Right. The graph really helped. I was thinking all linear. Rookie mistake ;)
 
They might even intersect to the left of the Y axis, which would mean e.g. that there are quadratic algorithms that are always slower than their linear counterparts
 
How could N become negative thought? Sorry lost me on that piece.
 
Also, there are other factors which are important when saying whether something is efficient or not. You likely wouldn’t use a super fast algorithm, if it wasted hundreds of gigabytes of memory every minute. So memory efficiency is important, and I/O efficiency, network, … you get the idea
 
@poke That makes sense as well.
 
8:08 PM
@ZackTarr Consider two algorithms: a constant one that takes ten seconds, and a linear one that takes 12 + N seconds. If you graph both of these, the lines intersect at N = -2.
 
I think it would be more correct to say "the lines never intersect" rather than "they intersect left of the y axis"
 
@Kevin Yep that makes sense too.
You really can learn a lot by just hanging out in this room!
 
Not on every day, but every other day :P
 
and today is every other day
 
@Aran-Fey I think then we'd have to call them rays instead of lines. But yeah, it's valid to say "it's meaningless to consider behavior to the left of the y axis so we'll just not draw anything there"
 
8:11 PM
oh wim is here...maybe he'll see my pytest question....ahem ahem....
:P
 
But, hmm, you can't call the quadratic and logarithmic curves "rays" because they're not straight lines. Terminology crisis!
 
@ZackTarr by using an unlist.
@Aran-Fey or "they do not intersect for nonnegative values of N"
 
(sorry @idjaw >_< pytest and requests is a really bad combination for me)
 
We could call them "curves". ...Except for the linear one, because it's not curved. Dangit.
 
What’s your definition of curve?
 
8:14 PM
@Aran-Fey in mathematics, a line is a curve.
 
Lines are just circles of infinite radius :^)
6
 
@Code-Apprentice What was this in reference too?? Not sure what unlist is.
 
@poke no need to apologize. Threw it up to the room to see if anyone found a nice way to do it that maybe did not require that mock:// hook. It's not horrible and seems like I'm only doing it in one place when I'm crafting my mock...
 
@Kevin oh god
 
@ZackTarr just something I made up that might make sense to have negative values of N
 
8:15 PM
Ahh I see. Just making sure I wasnt missing something.
 
I was trolling, but it looks like most of math.stackexchange.com/questions/82220/… agrees with me
 
Not really…
 
For a second I thought we were heading towards a flat earth vs round earth debate
 
there's no debate because it's flat
 
that just says that yes, circles with infinite radius do have circle sections that asymptotically are lines.
 
8:19 PM
@AndrasDeak gets it haha
 
DSM
It's easier to make a case that the Earth is at the centre of the universe than that it's flat.
 
everyone knows it's a flat disc carried by four elephants standing on a giant turtle flying through space...
 
@AndrasDeak Flat is actually such a terrible word for it because it’s absolutely not flat. Do people never try to drive around on their bike? There are hills everywhere.
 
just a few bumps...
(also cbg)
 
oh oh wait wait
flat earth time. I have something
 
DSM
8:21 PM
The Earth is really flat (i.e. non-bumpy, not not-round), considering its size.
 
Even if the Earth was perceptibly flat, it still wouldn't be flat because atoms are round and you can't make a flat surface out of round objects
coming up next: a two hour debate on whether atoms are round
 
@idjaw I was so mad they didnt let him launch his rocket. At least I think thats the same guy. (Havent read it all since I am still in this meeting)
 
I think atoms are points, so they don’t have a “roundness” property.
 
@ZackTarr I know....They need to fund this person to launch the rocket, and provide the video equipment to film the entire thing, so that he and the rest of the flat earthers can finally see that the world is in fact....not flat.
 
8:23 PM
I adhere to the Plum Pudding Model of the atom, which supposes the existence of "a sphere of uniform positive electrification"
 
DSM
Bring back the aether, that's what I say.
 
and that atoms do in fact taste like plums
when I was learning about the plum pudding model, I kept getting hungry.
I really wanted plum pudding
 
If atoms are points, then the Earth still isn't flat because you need an infinite amount of points to make a flat line and we only have 10**50 atoms, which is well short of infinity
 
DSM
Not that short. Infinity sets in around 10**72 or so.
 
why do you need an infinite amount of points?
 
8:25 PM
Depends if you consider that point to have mass or no mass right?
 
there's space between the atoms though, so you don't need an infinite number
 
DSM
You're running a hotel and everyone will want them? #mathreference
 
I get that reference.
 
@Kevin @poke the current CVE is rather big :D
 
@idjaw Starting a go fund me? Im sure we can find some country to let him launch if he has the cash to do so. :D
 
8:27 PM
@poke Because for any points A and B on a line, then (A+B)/2 must also be on the line, and therefore... Hang on, I used to know the rest of this proof. Has anybody got a high school geometry textbook I can leaf through?
 
it means I wrote the bug down before having dinner so that if zzzeek happens to be not so busy he can test it on some code that he's having or then frown, shake head and groan... which is ok
 
Ok, I'll compromise. If there are a finite number of rational numbers, then the Earth is flat.
 
Let’s start counting then, so we can finally get this over with.
 
@Kevin Isn't this an axiom of geometry?
 
@poke actually...
 
8:31 PM
@poke MemoryError
 
@Kevin perhaps more accurately, a curve appears flat on a small enough interval.
 
The axioms of euclidean geometry as listed on Wikipedia don't actually say what lines are. Maybe Euclid goes into more detail in his book.
 
@ByteCommander it's tortoises all the way down
 
> When geometry was first formalised by Euclid in the Elements, he defined a general line (straight or curved) to be "breadthless length" with a straight line being a line "which lies evenly with the points on itself".[5] These definitions serve little purpose since they use terms which are not, themselves, defined. In fact, Euclid did not use these definitions in this work and probably included them just to make it clear to the reader what was being discussed.
 
8:34 PM
> In modern geometry, a line is simply taken as an undefined object with properties given by axioms,[6] but is sometimes defined as a set of points obeying a linear relationship when some other fundamental concept is left undefined.
Modern geometers don't know what lines are
 
know, they know what it is, hence they don't need to define it
 
you know it when you see it :P
unless it's really a circle and you're seeing it from too close
 
T-9:30
 
I have discovered a truly marvelous definition of the line, which this margin is too narrow to contain
 
8:36 PM
@ByteCommander What’s that thing falling down?
 
@poke Rincewind?
 
Rincewind went over the edge in a bathysphere in an early book, IIRC
Oops beaten
 
Guess I have to read the book(s) to understand.
 
@poke I bet its rocketman trying to launch up to show us that the Earth is indeed flat.
 
I have Kevin'd Kevin. A new feeling of accomplishment pervades my life.
 
8:38 PM
I see the starwall got flushed today...
 
Let's see... It was in The Colour Of Magic, the first book. "Early" indeed.
 
the name of the vessel was Chelonion or something
*Chelonian? I can't google right now
 
@toonarmycaptain It's happening!
 
@Code-Apprentice Indeed.
 
lspace.org/books/synopses/the-colour-of-magic.html describes the vessel as The Potent Voyager. The occupants are called astro-chelonians.
 
8:41 PM
hmm, what am I confusing it with
 
I think it's reasonable to confuse the name of the vessel with the name of the explorer.
 
it wouldn't be the first time I got confused, nor the last
 
@KevinMGranger Reminds me a little of that rocket in Austin Powers…
 
In the stream, you can see the clouds streaming out of the vessel. This confuses the sky into thinking that the ship belongs there, preventing gravity from yanking it back down.
8
 
8:45 PM
How do I invite a user to the chat?
 
LIFTOFF
 
I would assume I can only do it through '@'
 
Now it is emitting a great deal of other clouds, as a distraction tactic
 
It’s also gotta rain, which is a big problem when launching rockets because that can totally extinguish the rocket’s fire…
 
@Neil Pretty sure the at sign doesn't do anything unless they've been in the room in the recent past.
There's no direct way to invite users, or else Jon Skeet would have to wade through ten thousand invites a day
If you've already got their attention in a comment thread or something, though, there's no rule that says you can't drop a link to the room...
 
8:47 PM
Yeah, I suppose that wouldn't work too well. And the link idea sounds good. Thanks.
 
Wow, they really need to work on that camera work, you can’t even see a thing…
 
@Neil It's possible to create a dedicated room for you and the user
 
just dropping the boosters like that.... someone ought to give them a littering ticket
 
@KevinMGranger I was just typing that exact comment.. grrr haha.
 
We call that getting Kevin'd, but because it's usually by the main Kevin.
 
8:49 PM
When my car's engine glows red like that, that usually indicates there's a problem.
 
Ahh I wondered what being Kevin'd meant.
 
… is that a car?
Did they seriously launch a car into space?
 
Yes, the whole thing is a PR stunt for Elon, so why not double dip if you can?
 
Is it a Tesla though?
 
8:50 PM
Good for them.
 
Ol Musky hasn't yet grasped that once you joke about doing something, you don't actually have to do it
4
 
First car into space: Tesla. Good job.
 
See also: The Boring Company, The Boring Company Flamethrower
 
It will be ready for the first person on mars to drive it
 
8:50 PM
to be fair, same
 
I mean is it a big deal like due to the weight or do other rockets have the ability to launch a car into space?
 
Do they have Tesla Superchargers on Mars though?
 
Are they at Mars yet? It's been like five minutes already.
8
 
@KevinMGranger the boosters will both land for reuse
@poke they will eventually, I'm sure
 
It's the biggest rocket in the world so far I think, and SpaceX is basically the only one trying the reusable thing
 
8:52 PM
@ZackTarr Google tells me that for the space shuttle, "The typical payload capacity was about 50,045 pounds (22,700 kg)"
 
They should really label those videos feeds, I have no idea what I’m looking at.
 
Hey, they're going down. That's the wrong direction. Get it together, rocket scientists.
 
@KevinMGranger the Gemini is the only bigger rocket
 
This is so much science porn within 10 seconds.
 
Even with my home spun country wisdom, I know that rockets are supposed to go up
 
8:53 PM
or whatever the one that was used to go to the moon
 
Ah, that's why they said "operational"
 
I’m really impressed that they managed to get this good at this.
 
I just saw a bunch of smoke and the video cut out, did something go boom
 
The announcers seem happy so I don't think anything that wasn't supposed to explode exploded
 
“towards Mars”, wait, they are seriously shipping that to Mars?
 
8:55 PM
I believe that was their plan, yes
It will get there in a hundred million years or something ridiculous
 
the car will land on mars
 
The lump of superhot metal that used to be a car will land on mars
 
Holy shit… is there anything useful in there for when there’s actual stuff going to happen on Mars, or is this just Elon’s way of sticking a flag pole into the ground?
 
@KevinMGranger oh thanks, that was brilliant
 
8:56 PM
it's a test to land a payload on mars. Eventually will be people on these flights.
 
Actually, hmm, does Mars have enough of an atmosphere to burn things up on entry?
 
yes, it does, from what I remember reading
 
This was great. Thanks to my general lack of interest I had no idea about the mission details. "Oh, so it's a test flight, neat. Oh, they're cheering a lot, must be the first test of the missile. Oh, they've got one of those cars aboard, to test what it'll be like to take to Mars? Oh yam, they're taking it to Mars"
 
@internet_user Thanks!
 
> the general consensus is that the payload won't be in orbit around Mars, it will be in an eliptical orbit around the sun and 'touch' the area of space that Mars orbits within. Reaching an orbit around Mars requires much more fuel
 
8:59 PM
So no actual landing on Mars (that would be a bit too extreme for now)
 
Meh good enough
 
(Musk's tesla sniffs the ground) "Mars was here, I can smell it"
 
Plot twist: The Tesla is a space car and can actually ride to the Mars using its Tesla super battery.
 
it's actually an invasion
 
Electric spaceflight? what are you a hippie
 
9:02 PM
It's actually Jimmy Hoffa in that space suit.
 
@poke It would be pretty neat if they had some experimental Xenon ion thrusters hidden aboard, so they could eventually put it into Mars orbit, or something. Or return to earth, this proving superior mileage.
 
"Bazinga"
 
> i am new to python and i am struggling with this problem for minutes.
 
poor guy, minutes are the worst
 
Plot twist: they're having trouble converting minute counts into the correct datetime delta
 
9:10 PM
they need to identify minute differences between two images
 
@vaultah Just got your message, how do I create a chatroom for just me and the another user?
 
Those two boosters landing together...spectacular.
 
The room will be public though
 
@vaultah thanks
 

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