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Wes
1:07 PM
the grand tour
 
ooh
 
@James ThingFactory. Unless it's doing something more specific, like ThingParser.
 
I came in a half hour early... oops
 
@Wes yeah :D
@Wes Told you should have just torrent it like the rest of us
 
Wes
i renewed also for high castle tho
and there are other series i want to watch... i hope
ah there's the expanse
i am using switch(){} and i don't remember anymore how it works
first time i've used it in like 5 years?
 
1:18 PM
do your countries support the two-day shipping?
wondering how much it costs for only the streaming part
 
Wes
yes they do ship in 2 days here. sometimes even just one
 
nice
 
Alright, so I've got a function which uses money_format to output the locale-formatted version of a given amount. Another dev has gone in and wiped out the part about using the currency symbol entity for a few reasons. First, he's stored the country in the config and prefers to use that over storing, say, the locale. Secondly, he says it ensures the right entity is output for the currency symbol, since it's hardcoded while money_format outputs a unicode escape sequence
Am I going crazy or is that a worse way to approach that?
Like, he removed it from the money_format format string and is just concatting a currency symbol defined in the system config to the beginning of the formatted string.
 
Not all locales put the symbol at the start of it
 
i mean, both versions are pretty awful, but here's the difference‌​. obligatory boolean flags and handling "money" using floats
Would be nice if you could pass the locale through as a second argument or something, to money_format
 
1:42 PM
mornin room
 
yo
 
yo
 
\o
 
Today i can't able to deploy some java application.
\o
 
1:45 PM
array_values don't work on empty array – #75653
 
@Jeeves why can't elephants use computers?
 
@Linus They are too heavy. Maybe they could do it if they drink Red Bull lol.
 
^^
 
lol
 
@Sean Both are meh :P Does that count too?
:D
 
1:54 PM
:P
I'm just a bit peeved and I'm not sure why
I wrote that function quite a while ago. I think i'm just salty that he's changed my code without prompt and because I think he's made it worse than it already was, but I feel kind of bias when making that judgement
 
@Sean, i stumbled across some other cases regarding my regex problem and i can't figure out how to do it...
 
Fire away
 
i found a lot of occurences like this: sector.2 , blablasector2
 
@Sean Pick your fights
 
i somehow need to ignore everything between sector or sectorul (except for numbers)
no matter the number of occurences
 
1:57 PM
Is it a guarantee that "sector" is always followed by a number (after whatever characters in between) which relate to that sector?
 
it should be , but not guaranted, and i can't do anything for those
i also found many other which have only sector ,but that's no more my problem
i dont think i can 100% cover every case
by now, this is how the regex looks like /\b(sector|sectorul)\s*0*([1-6])/ix
 
Wes
@PeeHaa i'm trying to explain myself that i've spent months developing that testing framework, and it probably doesn't have a purpose :B it's a pretty big one to swallow...
 
@Sean Why not make that a method on the entity? Then you don't need so many boolean parameters.
 
@Wes You didn't learn anything from it?
 
Wes
i learned that i can't make testing less painful than that
which is not good news tbh :B
 
2:03 PM
regexr.com/3hoc2 That's a big blanket one for you
 
:P
 
@PeterCos
.* is normally greedy, but the ? tells it to match as few times as possible.
 
@Wes I think I tried to tell you that few months ago
 
it will pick up lines like "sector somecity 5 park lane" as 5 though.
 
Wes
you just told me "you are doing it wrong"
 
2:05 PM
@Sean, that would be aproblem because it is an address input and can also be the street address and so on
 
You could maybe try and limit it by turning it into .{0,5}? or something to limit how many characters it would match.
 
@Wes "tried" ... I also recall failing to convince you why it was wrong
 
@PeterCos Have you considered instead of dicking around with random input just provide separate input fields
 
Wes
the problem is, it doesn't give me confidence in code when i write new code. if i want to spot errors in code that i know is well engineered then it's fine. but it's not good for code that is still in the works
 
the point is not to spot the errors, but to spot unexpected results
you basically test the "interface"
 
Wes
2:07 PM
because with the testing framework i've written i end up validating the wrong behavior
 
@PeeHaa, it wasn't made by me,i just came by to clean it ... the solution is to add multiple fields and no longer let the user do whatever he want,then solve the already registered users with a script that extract that substring to insert the reference where it need to be
 
no
you start by writing a test, that shows the correct behavior
then you check, if it matches the reality
 
Wes
re-read
 
well .. yes
btw, I also write such test (internally called "migration tests"), when I don't care if the result is correct, but it is critical for responses stay the same (even if they are wrong) ... but those tests get deleted after migration/refactoring is done
 
Wes
at least i've learned what not-to-do... let's put it this way
or maybe i shouldn't use it for everything. it is useful for certain things tbh
i'm still happy somehow, because i have probably accepted that i cannot avoid testing the old state-verification/classicist way
 
2:14 PM
@Sean, this seems to work pretty well actually /(sector|sectorul).*?([1-6])/ix
it also match strings like zzdawsector 3
 
Wes
live and learn
do you say that in english? :B idioms.thefreedictionary.com/live+and+learn yes
 
i think it's a world wide expression
 
2:36 PM
accessing the internet is giving me a headache, a really fucking expensive headache
I've shouted at so many people from so many mobile networks about so many things ... I'm exhausted, and poor ...
 
Anonymous
we're all exhausted and poor
 
Don't even need (sector|sectorul)
just sector or (sector) would do, since .*? matches the ul in sectorul too
 
/me waves
 
\o
Convinced Jay has actually been eaten by bears
 
sounds like something he'd go and do
 
2:48 PM
@Sean Probably did it on purpose too. Think @DaveRandom has his number? Did you ping him? Is he alright?
 
I just did. But he hasn't been online since tuesday I think
 
Wes
@JayIsTooCommon <3
 
Anonymous
Dec 1 at 12:28, by JayIsTooCommon
I dislike this room
 
Anonymous
Judging by his last comment, I would say he doesn't want to be here anymore
 
3:03 PM
Last seen yesterday
Tbh when I'm extended away, I don't miss this place
 
Anonymous
 
maybe he did it intentionally to make people freak out
and he was going on a mini vacation or something
 
Anonymous
honestly, do people who are -16 take vacations?
 
@MadaraUchiha shall we play some OW today, then? :3
 
Anonymous
I mean, what's the point?
 
Anonymous
3:07 PM
you whole life is a vacation :/
 
Is it just me or are people with a website from 1980 all assholes on internals
 
I think we should all travel to his house, and camp in his garden until he comes back
 
Wes
link? @PeeHaa
 
Maybe I'll get the first r11 restraining order
 
Wes
the best are those that have a profile pic from 1980. you are old, deal with it :B
 
3:09 PM
@Wes Well that rhsoft dude for one
Then there is tony
And lester
I see a pattern
 
Wes
lol
 
@Wes I could do one from 83...
 
Wes
:B
 
Not sure whether the 1980's website is cause or effect
 
Wes
i'm not a fan of that rfc tho. i mean it should've been like that from the very beginning (& specified on both sides) changing it now is... meh
 
3:12 PM
I don't like it too much either
 
So what you're saying is
don't subscribe to internals
 
!!rfcs
it doesn't work anymore?
 
Wes
it's not voting
 
Shouldn't it say something like we can't have nice things when nothing is on vote?
!!github room-11/jeeves
 
Failed fetching repo for room11/jeeves
Room-11/Jeeves Chatbot for Stack Overflow - Watchers: 37, Forks: 21, Last Push: 2017-10-30T12:11:22Z
 
3:21 PM
Oh right. Forgot I am on internet--
...
hmm it should at least give something back
 
Hi all
 
!!rfcs
Weird
 
!!version
 
Err, wrong command.
!!uptime
 
3:25 PM
╔══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
║ [1 day, 1 hour, 57 minutes and 1 second] without an accident ║
║                 since [2017-12-07 13:28:52]                  ║
╚══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
 
hmm... @Jeeves y u no rfc?
 
Nothing dodgy. o.o
 
@SaitamaSama How can you tell the difference?
 
jay is alive and is taking a break
 
!!plugin status RFC.PHP
 
3:27 PM
@Sean Invalid plugin name
 
@Sean I think it's a bug when there are no rfcs
!!plugins list
 
@PeeHaa Invalid plugin name
Plugin 'RFC.PHP' is currently enabled in this room
 
Weirdly slow with your repsonse
 
nah, edited in the right name
 
Ooh
 
3:29 PM
!!issue RFC.PHP plugin doesn't respond if there's no RFCs - !!rfcs command yields no response from Jeeves if there's no open RFCs.
 
Ta luv
 
this seems like an incredibly safe authentication method (Special Note for CAS, CGI and Shibboleth Authentication part)
 
Just found out our servers aren't being snapshotted
Now I'm panicked
 
3:45 PM
@Tiffany urgh :(
 
@Leigh yeah, makes me uncomfortable. Feels like the whole thing is a glass house.
and to top it off, I'm not sure this will work with the SSO provider we're switching to... >.<
 
I just had a sick round with Genji \o/
 
> Laravel, on the other hand, uses traits and magic methods on a regular basis. Thanks to that the code is not only much shorter and without many repetitions, but it’s also easier to understand and change the behaviour of applications.
oh boy...
 
I later proceeded to kill that other genji as well
so... a pentuple kill in total
 
@pmmaga It's as terrible as you think it is :P
 
@pmmaga First time I've seen traits and magic methods used as evidence for code being simple.
 
@pmmaga some of the Laravel proponents have been saying recently that refactoring the code to make it testable, makes it too difficult to read, as you're then having to use dependency injection, rather than hard-coded static methods....
 
4:20 PM
(=
happy frydai
 
o/
 
I feel dumber now..
 
yw
 
@Trowski When I started reading that sentence I totally expected it to go the other way, you know. Waiting for the "And that quickly becomes messy!" that never happened.
 
4:26 PM
@pmmaga Exactly. I stopped reading at that point.
 
@PeeHaa it's friday, we have the weekend to recover now :P
 
Recover with booze \o/
 
I started that last night already.
 
seems like the weekend started earlier for some,i'm still working :(
 
I learnt integration today!
 
4:34 PM
@SaitamaSama you're finally letting the coloreds into your swimming pool?
 
@Danack ... mmm I didn't actually get that :P
 
@SaitamaSama icollector.com/… - integration is another term for desegregation.
 
@ircmaxell A project I'm doing requires soldering some pretty serious QFNs. Send help.
 
@Danack oh, :P
 
@PeterCos You don't need to stop working to start drinking.
 
4:38 PM
tho, I've got to admit Integration is more daunting than Differentiation
I rather enjoyed doing differentiations, but for integrations... meh
 
@Trowski , but i need to be alone in the office to do that :))
 
And... I had a doubt as well... So, integration of f(x) is supposed to be the are under the curve of the graph of f(x)... If I consider f(x) = tan(x). Shouldn't it not work, since afaik the graph of tan is discontinuous, as it gets undefined at certain angles like pi/2
so, how can we even get -ln|cos x| + C?
 
4:59 PM
@Allenph Ha!
 
@SaitamaSama yeah, I was the same way when I took calc 1. I actually enjoyed solving derivatives. Then we were introduced to integrals and how they're the opposite of derivatives. Then they throw more complex stuff on top of it...and keep going... X_X
friend and I made heavy use of Khan Academy
 
Guys I'm having a bit of a dilemma in PHP, can someone help
 
@Tiffany same here actually
Sal does a great job at explaining difficult things
 
@TheCodesee Don't ask to ask. Ask a specific question with an EXTERNAL link to you code and provide some domain knowledge. (Tell us what you're doing.)
 
PHP Crash Using PDO ODBC – #75654
 
5:15 PM
@SaitamaSama Please open an issue with a small demo config regarding the cookie issue.
 
alright... will do, might take a bit of time tho
 
Anonymous
About to watch Justice League in 4D. Hope not to be disapointed
 
5:37 PM
4D
where'd you get that non-existent dimension?
 
so, which of these starred shits is the rebbeca link this time?
 
none?
 
incredible
are we really frydai?
 
5:41 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm watching your messages really close now, son.
 
hue hue hue
 
@SaitamaSama You generally integrate over a certain domain
 
Wes
@Jeeves bullshit 3v4l.org/1bYJv
3
 
@Wes Would you like kids?
 
@Jeeves Stop threatening him.
 
5:44 PM
@Allenph Never.
 
> mscorwks!WatsonLastChance+47
wth is that a function name?
 
Wes
a process or service in windows
damn that was too hidden maybe
does @Tiffany use windows? 3v4l.org/1bYJv i'm directly targeting people now
 
@NikiC could you explain it a bit more? :B
 
@Wes how did you that?
 
Wes
Sjon added the video :P he owns 3v4l
 
5:51 PM
i never didn't understand logic of that program
could anyone tell me :P /cc @Sjon
sorry for ping
 
Wes
it's not that the php code produces the video
sjon just added the video to the page if the url is equal to 1bYJv
 
i know but what about face?
 
Wes
each $char in $chars is repeated $repeat times
$chars = "@";
$repeat = [3];

is @@@
$chars = "@#";
$repeat = [3, 5];

is @@@#####
 
@Wes how that $chars and $repeat array is formed ?
 
@SaitamaSama First of all, you have to distinguish (definite) integrals, which integrate a function from x=a to x=b, and indefinite integrals, which are anti-derivatives, in that the derivative of the indefinite integral is the original function. Both types of integrals are related by the "fundamental theorem of calculus"
 
hmm
@NikiC that makes sense
 
I hope it's clear that if you integrate tan(x) only from -pi/4 to pi/4, where no discontinuities exist, then the integral exists and will be -ln|cos (-pi/4)| + ln|cos pi/4|
 
@Wes ah :) thnks
 
yeah, right
 
Basically you could choose any two points a,b and perform the definite integral, as long as a > -pi/2 and b < pi/2 (or any other range that doesn't hit singularities)
If you set one of the bounds to pi/2 (or (n+1/2)*pi in general) then the integral is undefined
 
6:01 PM
ohhhh, yeah
 
So the -ln|cos x| works as long you stay within the domain where the integral is defined. You'll also note that if you stick x=pi/2 into that formula you'll get -ln(0), which is also undefined
 
yeah, should've tried sticking pi/2 in that formula first :B
mm, that totally makes sense now
 
@NikiC What do you think about swift's copy-in, copy-out approach?
For inout parameters?
 
At least, that's the basic notion. There are extensions of the basic Riemann integral which allow integrating over different kinds of singularities. Some keywords for that are "improper integrals" and "(Cauchy) principal values"
@LeviMorrison depends on how that would work ^^
 
so, should I look about those keywords after finishing indefinite integrals, or now is fine as well?
 
6:06 PM
if you get interest you can :P
 
@NikiC Basically if you read from the original zval during the call it's an inout parameter for you get the original value, not a potentially updated one.
I'm honestly surprised that is the semantics Swift chose given it's a compiled language but in any case that's how it is.
It's basically implemented as sugar for multiple return values, and as an optimization sometimes it's directly passing a pointer.
 
@LeviMorrison you mean if you somehow access the value from somewhere other than the parameter?
 
@NikiC Yes.
 
Sounds reasonable
 
I think we could even support object properties with those semantics because they get copied at the end so why not?
Even in the face of magic properties, potentially.
I'd have to think more about how that affects arrays, though.
What's the point of an inout array if it's going to trigger copy-on-write, you know?
 
6:13 PM
@LeviMorrison yeah
good point
That would kinda defeat the whole purpose
 
On the other hand the idea of adding a new type of zval to represent a pointer-to-stack value does not sound appealing.
Or alternatively termed "a reference that doesn't reference count"
And it has to be a little bit smarter than that to support array stuff.
 
posted on December 08, 2017 by CommitStrip

 
I think I'm personally fine with only permitting out/inout to things on the stack. Things like $x[0] and $obj->property I don't really see the point of inout'ing.
Well, I guess properties which are arrays...
I don't know, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe we can just optimize references for common cases if we have an explicit call-site &?
Related: doesn't sort essentially make a copy due to the refcount increment on the parameter then copy-on-write triggers when you swap the first thing? If so I wonder why bother with references at all... just return the copy.
I guess the "use array as a stack functions" would be annoying to use that way.
 
6:39 PM
How to deal with ppl that don't want to pay you.
 
that would depend on the amount, the people, the degree of control over their product you have, and how nice you feel
 
I'm so annoyed by them. Keep telling me to bull shit to extend the project. Finished most of it.
I have full control.
 
do you have a contract?
 
yes
 
well, if there are clauses on payment, you should apply the things that are decided in them
 
6:44 PM
I took it down.
 
What if inout works by move-in, move-out? Basically we set the zval to IS_UNDEF or IS_NULL and then the called function has ownership and we move/copy it back out? This avoids the refcount. Would have to think of other side effects...
 
When they stop playing. They can contact me and I can upload it again.
 
@LeviMorrison sort() doesn't (necessarily) copy. usort() does though
 
If that's what happens we probably need to use something other than & at the call site...
 
7:00 PM
Segfault when using magic methods AND reference to self in property – #75655
 
@SalOrozco You gots to fire the client, my dude. Good book. amazon.com/You-Pay-Me-Adventures-Trying/dp/1974168727
If you let them scope creep once, they will do it eternally.
 
@Allenph thanks
 
@Allenph nice
 
imagettfbbox fails to find my font – #75656
 
Hi all, can't enable phpcs due to permission in PHpstorm MAC
 
7:18 PM
whats
 
exif_imagetype returns 18 for webp – #75657
 
@Wes goddammit, haha
 
Wes
:B
 
how the fuck
 
Wes
the owner of 3v4l added that :P
 
7:22 PM
lol
 
Morning all.
 
@Wes so only that specific 3v4l?
 
Wes
yes
 
nice
 
My SO account was suspended today for 24 hours. But the suspension got lifted after 10 hours, when I told them it was just a misunderstanding.
 
7:25 PM
what was the misunderstanding?
 
I was deleting my old answers from questions that had better answers.
And apparently thats against the rules.
It didn't feel good to not be able to do anything on SO for that long.
 
And those 10 hrs were exactly in the middle of my office hours, and I got so bored at work.
@RonniSkansing Thanks.
 
7:41 PM
@mega6382 Yeah, a lot of people post university questions on SO, then want them removed so they don't get caught. It happens a lot around this time of year
 
Yeah, makes sense.
 
Who is dumb enough to leave a crumb trail back to their actual identity if they're trying to cheat?
 
@Allenph may not even be that, but the question they're asking, and it's easily identifiable by the instructor
 
103
Q: How to cope with complaints from tutors who want to fight cheaters?

Thorsten S.One tutor complains here (the answer is deleted now) How to solve exception in thread "main", java.lang.ArithmeticException: / by zero? This post contains solution code to one or more of our homework assignments here at University of [redacted]. It is indexed by Google, which enables student...

 
I mean...I guess. But...I see that as unlikely.
 
7:51 PM
granted, there's still the "whodunnit" if they use a relatively anonymous account
 
@Allenph The problem is... what if you verbatim copy the answer? Easy to identify then, which is what that professor said in that Meta
 
Ahhh. I see.
Actual picture of that professor...
 
lol
 
if you go through the edit history, his name is in there
2.5 on ratemyprofessor
 
His name is also on the original deleted rant
 
8:03 PM
I can't access that :P
 
nite all.
 
Wes
daily reminder on why phpstorm is awesome: if you run tests you can't edit the php files while phpunit is using them, right? phpstorm runs the tests from a copy of the directory, so you can continue working while tests are still running :P
 
@Wes if I remember correctly, it saves to temporary files, then moves those files into the folder. It fucks up if you have custom permissions set up in Windows :/
because the copied files don't have the same permissions. I had to turn that feature off.
 
I wonder if people still remember where that came from
that particular meme
 
8:17 PM
> if you run tests you can't edit the php files while phpunit is using them, right?
ummm, why not? filesystems allow multiple open files at a time
 
Wes
@ircmaxell if i run phpunit and i edit a file i can't save it (note: phpstorm and many other editors save automatically these days)
more precisely it saves on focus loss and periodically
if the file is blocked against writes because phpunit, i'm going to get errors in phpstorm when it tries to save the file, but it doesn't do that if i run phpunit through phpstorm
 
that's weird.
 
Wes
isn't it normal?
for example, i cannot unlink() a file that i've just require()d
 
OS?
Maybe you're on windows?
 
8:27 PM
> our bytecode optimizer can detect when locals are dead and convert a CGetL (push a reference to a local to the stack) into a PushL (teleport the local to the stack)
> because of references and destructors we don't get to do that very often which is one of the reasons we plan to kill both of them
> as for passing values contained inside arrays via inout, we don't currently do anything but I'm planning to add some special bytecoes that preform this optimization when it's known to be safe
 
Wes
@NikiC yes :B
i thought... "mmmmm brownies" @Danack twitter.com/MrDanack/status/936991892457312257
then i realized it's dirt :B
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier having our weekly work social call, we're currently bashing french speakers, it's delightful
 
lawl. poor French ;)
 
mostly the French ones, yeah, and mostly for just being mean to people who do not speak French perfectly
 
oh. you mean they were being judgemental of other people? are they, French from France, that pronouce "the" with a z, like "ze" by any chance?
please, thoroughly destroy them
 
8:41 PM
There aren't any present, sorry. We're cowards
Or are they cowards for not showing up? No. It's still us.
 
!!? what's the simplest way to find elem.getImmediateChildrenElementsByTagName?
 
Search for "what's the simplest way to find elem.getImmediateChildrenElementsByTagName? -site:w3schools.com" (https://www.google.com/search?q=what%27s+the+simplest+way+to+find+elem.getImmediateChildrenElementsByTagName%3F+-site%3Aw3schools.com&lr=lang_en)
• .children() | jQuery API Documentation - The .children() method differs from .find() in that .children() only travels a single level down th… (https://api.jquery.com/children/)
• Node.childNodes - Web APIs | MDN - 14 jul. 2017 - Simple usage. // parg is an object reference to a <p> element // First check that th… (https://developer.mozil
 
ThW
@FélixGagnon-Grenier $elementChildren = $xpath->evaluate('*', $element);
replace * with tag name
 
hmmm ta :)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I know a girl from France who lives in Montreal. She's told me she cringes at how French Canadians "butcher" the language
 
8:50 PM
LOL
well, tbh she's probably right for the most part. most country places in quebec have really terrible way of butchering the language
I'd totally have a delightful argument with her on that
mostly going around "yeah start by getting your english accent right"
 
only if I can eat popcorn and watch
 
:D
that'd make for a very funny skype conference
@ThW if ever you have to do it only with javascript, the querySelectorAll method is marvelous: xmlDom.querySelectorAll('Layer > Name')
 
Wes
jsfiddle.net/8x9oxrwg @FélixGagnon-Grenier
 
ThW
@FélixGagnon-Grenier css selectors, yeah - god for HTML, not so good for most XMLs
 

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