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2:01 PM
Sure :D
 
Ven
You know when you start debugging something small and 4h later you're grepping the systemd code and it's like "how did my life go so wrong?"
3
 
user784668
@Mgetz They could parse the module table to get kernel32 address instead :P
 
@Fanael they could but it's probably forwarded to either NTDLL or KernelBase and because that changes across versions and you have to manually map the DLLS it's probably not worth the pain. Moreover by not loading them and loading on NTDLL you limit attack surface.
 
user784668
@Mgetz kernel32 is always loaded though
 
@Fanael yeah I just did a processExplorer look at it, dunno
 
user784668
2:09 PM
@Mgetz try running this code: gist.github.com/Fanael/a03966b58b62ded072b1
 
user784668
It prints hello world on all windows version I tested it on.
 
user784668
Even though the import table is empty.
 
also did @rightfold get a new job
 
@Ven because systemd
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz yes
 
2:13 PM
@Fanael isn't NtCurrentTeb imported or is that a macro to an intrinsic that gets it from gs?
 
user784668
@Mgetz It's an intrinsic or inline function with inline assembly.
 
@Fanael hmm if you had sandbox permissions wrong that would let an attacker get out if they can get their code running. Yet more reasons to code defensively.
 
@Ven :o
 
Ven
@Morwenn ¿
 
I didn't know.
 
2:16 PM
I'm interested to see if MS exposes the virtualizing API that they are going to use on edge in the next update
 
user784668
1 hour ago, by Mgetz
@Fanael uh no, maybe office 2003. But MS has VERY VERY strict policies that internal products cannot under any circumstances call 'Internal' or 'Undocumented' APIs
 
@Fanael edge is considered OS (currently), but I do expect they will expose it because they decoupling its releases from the OS
it's probably the same APIs to an extent they are using to support the SFL and docker
 
Gawd! The Visual Studio C++11 mutexes and stuff implementation is stupid.
People using log4cplus keep hitting the issue where the whole process dies or deadlocks because my library dares to try to lock a mutex during process shutdown.
 
> Incorporate D0584r1 (module partitions) into the PDTS? 0 | 8 | 11 | 16 | 11
AKA "fuck module partitions" it seems.
 
2:32 PM
@wilx that's not a VSC++ issue
that's a loader lock issue
don't do it
 
@Ven The trick is to stop just short of systemd and leave for drinks.
 
@Mgetz It is MSVC issue. Win32 API primitives do work. But because MSVC implements their C++11 mutexes through some DLL shit it does not.
 
@wilx that is getting fixed in the next toolset update IIRC, currently they use the concurrency runtime
 
@Mgetz That would be pretty cool.
 
but either way, taking a mutex after someone has said they are exiting the process is really really dumb. Because at that point the walls are already starting to be torn down.
 
2:36 PM
@Mgetz Do you have a link to this information. I could provide that as feedback to users.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes #offtothepub
 
"Stop short of systemd" is great life advice.
 
> Must the PDTS include support for module partitions? 0 | 10 | 16 | 10 | 12
 
@wilx it was on the VC++ blog awhile back, I'm not sure when or if it was just in a comment on one of STLs posts. But they've wanted to remove the dependency for awhile but bincompat
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still do not see the problem with systemd.
 
2:42 PM
Oct 28 '16 at 15:38, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I've ranted about systemd way too much in this room already.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll exceptionally allow you to rant about it once more.
 
@wilx Long story short: the constantly repeating episodes of blaming other projects for systemd's mistakes and forcing everything else to accommodate their wrong decisions instead of actually fixing shit. It's primarily a problem with the people in charge of systemd than with the software itself.
 
apparently this codebase uses streams
whatever those are in java
they look like something you have to always call before you can do regular processing on stuff
 
Ven
comonads of course
 
2:50 PM
@wilx Argh, I actually went back and dug back up a few of those episodes, but I'll take my own advice and leave it be.
Pub time.
 
actually
I am kinda liking the fact that in Java you can override methods on instances
it looks absolutely useless otherwise but is great for hacking stuff
like when a function expects "SomeClass" and you just write new SomeClass and the IDE creates that class ad-hoc and allows me to override everything
 
@BartekBanachewicz anonymous subclass, they are very nice before lambda's when you needed a listener and didn't want to write another nested class that only gets used in a single spot
 
@ratchetfreak I remember using that at school :)
 
@wilx Actually, there are also serious problems with systemd itself. Its ubiquity, vast scope, complexity, and pace of development make it close to unauditable, which is bad for such a low level component of the system (PID 1).
Well, ubiquity doesn't hurt auditability, but ubiquous and unauditable are a bad combination.
 
sounds like a system2
 
2:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whatever the state, it seems to me it is a necessary component. The way services were handled before was not optimal, AFAIK.
 
Ven
@StackedCrooked funfact: systemd is short for SystemDeux.
 
it is? lol
 
something you might not know with java is that you can put whole classes inside functions. that "class" can also be an interface or abstract. That way you can access any new members you put in it inside the function it's declared in
 
well deux
 
@wilx Your assumption that systemd is just about services is an example of the problems with its scope.
 
3:01 PM
@ratchetfreak that's the case with c++ too, no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah
but not many java people seem to know that it's possible in java as well
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you're stating things a little too weakly. Just to pick on one point, "close to unauditable" is only technically accurate. For any practical purpose, it flat-out is unauditable.
 
or I've never seen it in the wild, they always just go for a class level nested class
@JerryCoffin auditability also depends on how easily patches get integrated
 
it's also inaudible
Ok. I'll be gone.
@Xeo @Mysticial I hate these inter-seasonal gaps. Just finished watching One Punch Man again (for the third time now).
 
@sehe Wow! Do you have a link to ml archives for this? I want to see the shitstorm.
 
3:05 PM
@StackedCrooked I know you meant this as a joke--but the sad part is, it's not true. At least with correct configuration, systemd can play sounds...
 
@Xeo @Mysticial Also rewatching Shingeki no Bahamut Genesis. I forgot how good it is.
@JerryCoffin Oh, crap.
 
@JerryCoffin as a compromise we’ll say that’s unheard of
 
@LucDanton I think I may have to go take a shower. The puns in here are making my mind feel dirty... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin I know where is the ml archive. I can't find the start of the thread though.
 
@wilx check previous months
 
3:14 PM
@wilx There isn't really a single thread to follow--but the majority of what's been posted this month has been related to the review of Beast.
 
 
3:31 PM
But what is it referring to?
 
@wilx what I can't figure out is what he's replying to
that seems to have been excised
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes eh... If I'm going to throw around insults I prefer 'nitwit' and 'imbecile' both of which were trigger words for idiots long long ago
 
I'd say both responses are completely overblown.
 
3:35 PM
agreed
 
Pretty disappointing.
Anyway, the abuse of "ad-hominem" to refer to insults triggers me.
 
feel free to ignore the drooling idiots who come up with that sort of stuff
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wonder how many times over the years I've explained to people what ad hominem actually means. If memory serves, I've even been accused of an ad hominem attack specifically for having the temerity to point out what the phrase actually means...
 
@StackedCrooked I'm so far behind on everything atm. lol
 
@JerryCoffin on the other hand if you were explaining to a human specifically
 
4:31 PM
Hello!
Found this gem in the school library today:
(Know what's less funny? They actually still teach us programming using Tubro C++)
 
@Rahul2001 It would only be a gem if it were in the library and the library were under tons and tons of earth for billions of years.
Wait....that would be coal. It would never be a gem!
 
Diamond ( or ) is a metastable allotrope of carbon, where the carbon atoms are arranged in a variation of the face-centered cubic crystal structure called a diamond lattice. Diamond is less stable than graphite, but the conversion rate from diamond to graphite is negligible at standard conditions. Diamond is renowned as a material with superlative physical qualities, most of which originate from the strong covalent bonding between its atoms. In particular, diamond has the highest hardness and thermal conductivity of any bulk material. Those properties determine the major industrial application...
@wilx ^ ?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you trying to ruin my joke? :)
 
5:20 PM
@wilx Queen knew how it could become a gem.
 
@JerryCoffin đź‘Ť
@JerryCoffin I still do get goose bumps from this song.
 
Seems like a good use for old nukes. Surround the bomb with lots of graphite, all inside some extremely strong container. Set off the bomb, and in a few milliseconds you have lots of diamonds--and unlike others, these even glow in dark. Well worth a very slightly increase chance of cancer sometime down the road...
 
hello
is anyone using wsl for cpp coding?
 
@David WSL?
 
windows linux subsystem
maybe is a noob question xD
 
5:37 PM
ok
 
@David We are waiting for you to come up with the actual question regarding your actual issue.
 
current plan for dealing with that fucking lightbulb: superglue packaging tape onto the bulb and pull it out that way
@wilx You might be
 
@Puppy Pluralis majestatis.
 
first, you'd actually have to be majestatis in any way
 
@w
 
@Rahul2001 India? Sadly, we know. I've always wondered why is this the case though (that is, why they continue to teach with Turbo C++). Anyway, my condolences go to you.
 
@wilx sorry :) im trying to debug my code from wsl with gdb on vscode is that possibile?..i only can build and run the code (with success) but i have some problem to get gdb working
on this topic i've posted a question on the website
brb
 
@Xeo @Mysticial Aho Girl is hilarious to the extreme!
cc @ScarletAmaranth
It's also extremely stupid.
 
6:06 PM
Can't think of more stupid anime. (Except perhaps for Koi Koi Seven.)
 
btw, I've finally had the time to watch Shingeki no Kyojin season 2 - that was so unsurprising :(
 
You didn't like it?
 
it's not that I didn't like it, but there wasn't much new revealed to be honest
 
I thought it wasn't bad. However, not as exciting as the first season.
@ScarletAmaranth True.
 
everyone kinda knew that titans are humans(more or less)
and that was their "biggest" reveal
 
6:07 PM
lol yeah
that was obvious from the beginning
 
ok and they gave away identities of the 2 big titans
 
I did not see that coming.
 
the only mildly amusing thing was the coordinate ability thing
 
Oh right. I almost forgot.
That was interesting though.
Also Mikasa's confession was sweet.
 
yeah it was alright - although it obvious somewhat obvious that he would either "evolve" his titan form and be stronger (given his main character-ness) or get a weird ability - which I guess could be considered evolution anyway
 
6:48 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I have that on my to-do list. No time yet. Been overwhelmed with Skylake X stuff. The Anime Midwest convention in the middle of all that didn't help either.
 
@Mysticial I've ordered 7820x, but I think I should have bought the ryzen 1800X :-)
 
@ScarletAmaranth No. All the shit going on about Skylake X overheating and stuff only happens when you go above 4.5 GHz. And the reason this happens is because Skylake X can go above 4.5 GHz. Ryzen, OTOH, can't go above 4.0 GHz at all. Therefore there's less bad press about it.
And Intel still has the IPC advantage over AMD.
 
I am not delidding my CPU, that's for crazy people :)
running stock, "yeey" :(
 
So if you're gonna compare a $600 7820X with a $450? 1800X, I would argue that the 7820X is still a fair choice.
 
oh well, what is done is done :) also I'd welcome more pcie lanes on a 600$ CPU, I think the 7900 has 44 already
(ok I've just realized 7900 is 1k, lel)
 
7:04 PM
I was going to buy the 7820X. But when I saw the reviews saying that only the 7900X had the full AVX512, I went with that instead. But I found out yesterday, that the reviewers got it wrong and that all the Skylake X chips have the full AVX512.
And now a bunch of people (including myself) are waiting on Intel for an explanation.
 
@fredoverflow But you only have to make a small effort once every 3 years :o
 
honestly I would be willing to pay a thousand for a CPU if the jump from the cheaper one was a bit more than 2 cores and 16 pci lanes
 
News from Toronto: std::complex gains constexpr support.
 
7:22 PM
Meh.
I mean, I never use std::complex anyway.
 
Me neither, but it keeps being updated. I think every standard revision brings small changes to std::complex.
But I do remember that some guy was glad to find my constexpr implementation of complex and imaginary numbers in static_math.
IIRC he was implementing constexpr polynomials or something.
 
7:58 PM
@StackedCrooked Certainly neatens up the code to calculate fractals...
 
8:42 PM
Finally, a one-stop link for it
 
@sehe One-stop for half an hour? :)
 
That's what makes it one-stop
One stop means there is no need for another stop somewhere else.
 
nwp
8:59 PM
@sehe I don't like that he makes an intrusive list.
 
Ven
@nwp But is it a linked intrusive list?
 
nwp
@Ven Yes, unless that means something else than a linked list that is intrusive.
Also he is taking a non-const struct * to sum elements. Would not recommend to people who do not know about these things.
 
@nwp Who cares. It's C (so, bad) and he needs a simple things that's easy to reason about etc.
It's not about the code review. Also, the compiler sees right through those.
 
nwp
9:30 PM
The final conclusion is that you cannot know if a list or an array is faster because it depends on the architecture or something. In other words we learned nothing that can be put into a general rule. I don't like that conclusion.
 
I don't like how he uses the name p for 2 totally different variables.
 
@sehe link for what?
 
nwp
> Confusing variable names. But then, I'm a C programmer.
 
9:59 PM
FWIW, VC++ has apparently added some AVX512 support. CC:@Mysticial
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. Problem is that ICC still has trouble integrating with the latest VS.
But I am looking forward to intellisense not puking over the AVX512 intrinsics.
It used to work with them. Then upgrading from VS2015 update 2 to VS2015 update 3 broke it. And I get red underlines everywhere.
 
10:28 PM
@JerryCoffin I was also mildly surprised that Windows 10 had AVX512 support out-of-the-box. So that episode back in 2011 where I waited a month for Win7 SP1 to get AVX support didn't repeat itself this time.
Microsoft actually had this shit together on that front. And they also had their shit together for the Turbo Boost 3.0 in these chips.
Their compiler also has its shit together because it's still a pile of shit. And a pile of shit is by definition, a bunch of shit together.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, I seem to remember you mentioning something about it at the time.
@Mysticial It really is too bad that some equivalent of the ABIOS (Advanced BIOS) that IBM put into their MicroChannel Machines hasn't survived. It was a set of BIOS functions that would be usable from a real OS, so (for example) as soon as you installed Windows on a new box, it would immediately have code to deal with the latest processor (or whatever).
Really wouldn't take a whole lot to put a little table in the ROM to tell it "you need to set aside this much space to store state", and then "invoke this piece of code to (save|restore) state".
 
10:50 PM
@JerryCoffin They have that now in AVX. There's an instruction that dumps all the registers into a memory address or reloads them from it. And there's a way to query the processor for how much space is needed for that scratch space.
Perhaps that's why Windows 10 already has support.
Because Intel picked up the tab.
 
11:03 PM
@Mysticial Yeah--Intel has included various forms of saving and restoring state for a long time (e.g., pusha and popa have been there forever). Problem is that it's normally be specific instructions that did exactly one thing, rather than an extensible framework (so to speak) so existing code would do the right thing with new processors.
 
11:30 PM
@Puppy What do you guys use for authentication/authorization of your ASP.NET web api?
 
> Three new commander icon colors have been added: cyan, magenta, and white.
@EdgyAlpaca as you can tell anet have their priorities in order
 
I assume yellow and black were there already
 
@milleniumbug good catch, but actually black is missing
or the other way to see it, why did they bother with white? that can’t look good on a light background
 
@Shoe 2FA your nuts and your squirrels.
 
wat
 
11:41 PM
@Shoe Do you want to authenticate or authorize?
 
Both
 
Ah the authentication is easily done by the login component. That sets a cookie and a role.
@Shoe We should probably do this in the ASP.NET questions and answers room.
 
Login component? Cookies?
I'm talking about Web API
 
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