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1:04 AM
New Zealand bike routes for those that love wine
such a good idea - drink wine then ride a bike
 
1:25 AM
@Telkitty Or just do both at the same time.
 
even better, drink riding is probably legal
 
I mean, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to ride a horse drunk in Montana, so you never know
oooh, looks like I was wrong:
> I wouldn’t recommend that anyone does that. But as the law says, you can ride your horse after drinking.
 
@Mikhail lol
 
2:22 AM
Howdy peoplez
If anyone still remember me lol
 
we know that’s really you
 
Its not
 
@ProblemSlover I remember Nick (may he find his nick niche of Nick where he may go)
you are far more recent
 
@jaggedSpire ohh at least someone still keeps my dignity in this group lol
 
2:37 AM
It's simply that I choose not to interact with you very frequently. Why the absence?
 
@ProblemSlover Dignity? In the Lounge? Seriously?
 
@jaggedSpire i just figured out that i can iterate on twitter with tech guys as good as here lol
@JerryCoffin i still have some good faith left in this group:/
 
lol
how can I best destroy it?
To make sure I never do, of course.
:3
 
@ProblemSlover I have tremendous faith in this group. But I also know them well enough to have at least some idea of what to trust them to do.
 
@jaggedSpire it is up to your programmers creativity
 
2:42 AM
@JerryCoffin <3
@ProblemSlover Error: this is not very informative.
Request: please elaborate further.
 
3:26 AM
so cgi php & .net which is a more reliable security wise?
 
4:05 AM
.net encourages better security practices
 
when you are on ubuntu, with root access, you can control your security pretty well too if you know what you are doing
the problem is ... I don't know exactly what I am doing ...
 
Uh... the local debugger launches an .exe in the output folder and attaches to it which means you dont have to do anything? — Borgleader 10 secs ago
 
WHAT'S UPPPPPPP
I have just ordered Pizza
 
4:21 AM
@VermillionAzure I can haz pizza?
 
@JennaSloan No my pizza
 
Hello. I checked the English language chatroom but found it empty, so I am sorry to ask you an off-toic question: I want to know if, in English language, there is a noun that refers to this meaning "a person who feels thirsty"?
 
Jan 30 '15 at 2:30, by Borgleader
"Hi I have a question about my retirement fund"
"Sir this is a convenience store..."
"I know but it's the only thing open at this hour"
 
I'm still impressed by the mileage we get out of that one xD
 
@BillalBEGUERADJ like "vampire"?
 
4:29 AM
@BillalBEGUERADJ The fake answer: fukbois
@BillalBEGUERADJ The real answer: Just "thirsty people"
 
4:41 AM
@BillalBEGUERADJ Do you mean thirsty as in "I want water" or thirsty as in the euphemism?
 
4:51 AM
I'm not aware of any commonly used experessions
 
5:06 AM
Yes, I mean thirsty for water @jaggedSpire
 
Thirsty people's probably your best bet. There might be a synonymous word, but I suspect most people won't know it
 
damn, private mail server stuffed up
I suspect that some items that have been stuck there for a month is finally sent
 
5:24 AM
Thank you.
 
altogether 2 emails, but they are private emails and receiver will think that I am dumb
 
5:39 AM
or maybe I worried too much
checked log, no old emails sent
 
6:32 AM
@Telkitty: You suck at email server setup. :D
What MTA server are you using?
 
that's so true
@wilx like ... no idea
 
@Telkitty ...
 
yeah ...
I didn't set it up
 
@Telkitty Ah.
 
the company that runs my vps set it up for me
as you see, I learn a lot of new things every day still ...
>_<
 
6:48 AM
Integer.parseInt("123\n\n"); does not work ~_~
who would have thought </trollololo>
 
7:04 AM
Did you mean to ask this in /r/eli5? — Borgleader 8 secs ago
 
7:20 AM
@Telkitty throws an exception?
@Telkitty nor even vaguely what you are doing, I am willing to guess
 
@Code-Apprentice yeah
trying to do as little work as possible on the server to send app some info
last field end up with \n
which has to be stripped
 
Late one night, a cop sees a man crouched on the ground beneath a street lamp clearly looking for something. The officer walks over to offer help. "What are you looking for?" he asks. "My keys," the gentleman replies. "Where did you drop them?" "Over there," gesturing into the shadows. Confused, the officer asks, "So why are you not looking over there?" "The light is better here."
@Borgleader @Mysticial ok, that was longer than your convenience store example. Every time someone quotes that, I think of this joke.
@Telkitty try trim()
 
used replaceAll("[^0-9]","") instead
 
That seems less safe. Don't you want some kind of error for invalid input?
 
pretty sure the Java way is to use regex
 
7:33 AM
Once I met someone who lost car keys after came back from a 15km bushwalk.
 
I hope that is sarcasm @Mikhail
 
@Code-Apprentice server side is handled by me too, so should be fairly safe (for my standard) >_<
 
@Telkitty you mean that is when they noticed the keys are missing?
 
yeah
 
That is harsh
 
7:34 AM
@Code-Apprentice its not
 
AFAIK, the Java way is to use string methods
But then I do not know why I am using such broad over generalizations. I believe in using the right tool for the job.
 
Instead of sscanf you have regex
 
7:52 AM
Regex does not do any data type conversion, so that does not to be at all equivalent to me.
 
Yeah, but regex won't throw crap at you either
Looks like Scanner is the way to go
Wow, I forgot just how terrible serializing strings is in Java
 
Yes, Scanner is standard for getting input from stdin. Not sure that it is helpful for string passing.
There are many other tools for parsing
Such as the aforementioned Integer.parseInt()
 
user784668
8:20 AM
Clang-tidy is awesome.
 
user784668
It warns on argv[0].
 
9:07 AM
Damn, Veritasium's yt videos are amazing.
 
9:35 AM
@Fanael Isn't, argv[0] the full path of the executable or something?
C++Now 2017 (51 videos)
10
Are persistent data structures finally catching on in the C++ world? I never thought I'd see the day...
 
user784668
@fredoverflow But it's ~pointer arithmetic~
 
So *argv then? :)
Parents lock up your daughters, argv[0] is adding 0 to a pointer!
 
@Darklighter Thanks. Interesting.
 
user784668
@fredoverflow But no, it's not. It's what the caller of execve or CreateProcess passed there.
 
user784668
You can pass any bullshit in argv[0].
 
user784668
@fredoverflow Also, what if the executable has no path?
 
@Fanael I have no idea, that's why I ended my question with "or something" ;)
 
user784668
10:04 AM
@fredoverflow "Finally catching on"?
 
user784668
They were here the whole time!
 
represents the name used to invoke the program itself (or an empty string "" if this is not supported by the execution environment).
not quite *any* bullshit
 
user784668
@Darklighter That's against POSIX and Windows though.
 
@Fanael it’s what cppreference says
 
user784668
@Darklighter It's also what actual real-world implementations don't care about.
 
10:08 AM
@Fanael Many apps use that to set their working folder.
 
@Fanael i guess they can do anything
 
@Darklighter lol
that's better
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy wandbox.org/permlink/7nOl8LvwDYTia2gb /cc @Darklighter
 
user784668
10:24 AM
As you can see, argv[0] is "LUL", because that's what the execve caller passed there.
 
user784668
The path to the executable is /memfd: (deleted) according to /proc/self/exe.
 
user784668
Which is pretty funny, because that's a valid path to a file that's may or may not exist, but is certainly never the actual executable.
 
Does that imply that you can invoke a C++ program in a wrong (per standard) way?
 
user784668
@Darklighter This code does just that, so yes, it does.
 
@Fanael Interesting. I’m wondering what requirements other languages have.
 
10:41 AM
@Fanael Oooo. That's not very nice for the app that depends on it.
I don't think there is a equivalent to fexecve on windows. There is definitely an int 21 that does that on dos. But I haven't used that in a long time
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy There's CreateProcess.
 
you can only pass one string, not the argv array.
 
user784668
fexecve is mostly a red herring here, it's just that unixes are retarded and can't spawn new processes without fork + exec.
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy Yeah, but the called program then parses it into argv.
 
user784668
And the same thing with argv[0] applies there.
 
10:48 AM
@Fanael what’s up with posix_spawn*?
 
you pass 2 strings to CreateProcess, the exe name and the args string. The exe name always ends up in argv[0], and the args end up in argv[1] and up.
 
user784668
@LucDanton They're emulated on most unixes.
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy No, the second argument ends up as the result of GetCommandLine.
 
user784668
From CreateProcess docs:
 
user784668
> The new process can use GetCommandLine to retrieve the entire command line. Console processes written in C can use the argc and argv arguments to parse the command line. Because argv[0] is the module name, C programmers generally repeat the module name as the first token in the command line.
 
10:50 AM
@Fanael oh right, that’s its whole point
 
I mean in the argv list passed to main(). No console apps started with CreateProcess would be able to run otherwise.
 
user784668
@LucDanton So you still fork and thus have to mark the whole address space as CoW, which is linear and thus fucking slow, only to discard it microseconds later.
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy They parse the result of GetCommandLine before calling main.
 
olk. I'll give it a go and hack that for fun. sounds interesting.
 
.@TungYin Is there any special reason why you start your calculation of deaths from terrorism on Sept. 12, 2001? http://goo.gl/Bxss9k
 
user784668
10:54 AM
@MichaëlRoy See for example __getmainargs and CommandLineToArgvW.
 
^ I am apparently no the only one who noticed. :)
 
Shouldn't the count have started sometime in Nov '63?
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy The count should've started in 1776.
 
Since the guys on the Mayflower were considered dangerous religious extremists by the crown, we could also go that far back.
 
@MichaëlRoy End of WWII would be a good start.
 
user784668
11:03 AM
@wilx Define "end of WWII".
 
define who really won WWII ?
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy Hitler, because he killed Hitler, obviously.
 
@Fanael I think we can be pretty arbitrary with this. Let's say start counting from January 1 1946.
 
On a totally different subject... who has already used FLT_ constants to evaluate errors in floating point ops?
like the 1 bit error is +- f * (1.f + FLT_EPSILON)
for addition/subtraction
 
user784668
@MichaëlRoy I dunno, why not just use boost::math::float_distance?
 
11:16 AM
That's what they use.
 
I'm trying to find a reliable way to define a number as real or imaginary after a rather long series of calculus. I've got a solution, but it's not so reliable. My next solution is to keep track of intermediary values which should all be real, in the real case, but that's becomes quite expensive. It's to calculate zeroes of polynomials with 200-1000 roots.
@Fanael That's what std::numeric_limits<> uses, so boost does.
 
11:54 AM
@MichaëlRoy Aren't there like existing and well proven techniques how to do that that you can just copy/paste? :)
 
I've seen different patterns. Some I've seen are so different than the others, they've obviously been computed for the task. I'm not too bad at math, but not good enough for that kind of calculus.
I know that the rounding error for multiplication is f * 2.0 * sqrt(2.0) * DBL_EPSILON, but calculating the error for a series of multiply/adds involves quite a bit of heavy duty calculus.
Maybe it's a good subject for an app. This is probably the way to go. It's got to have some sort of mechanical solution.
There has a good thesis or white paper about it, I haven't looked in a while. Thing is, I wrote this library quite a while back, and I'd like to put it up on github, It works great, but I'm not quite satisfied with this one specific case of real polynomials having once in a while imaginary roots. Only starts above 450 or so roots. I'd like to push it a bit more.
It's there. basically unseen since 2006. mroy.chez-alice.fr/polynomials/index.html
 
12:25 PM
Excuse me, I'd like to ask
The link is for you library docs, right?
 
I frankly don't know if it compiles on gcc either. it does on vc++ 2005.
Yes.
 
Polynomial<T> inherits from std::vector<T> publicly?
 
yes. But it always has at least one member, for the coefficient of x^0.
It makes it quite easy to use. I don't know if I'd write it the same way today. But it works
It handles any kind of floating point, and imaginary numbers as well.
 
It's interesting
It does make it really easy to use
Just bothers me that std::vector doesn't have a virtual destructor so that could be bad
 
@EnnMichael don't inherit from it
EVER
 
12:31 PM
I don't
This guy did
 
Yes, it could be bad.
 
@MichaëlRoy not could be, IS
always compose with std::vector
 
I wrote this 10 years ago.
 
don't ever inherit
 
12:32 PM
I know, but it's so much boilerplate :P
 
nwp
@Mgetz unless it's tax-free cash
 
Having to retype like 8 functions that just delegate
Is annoying
 
But it's not a Herculean task, either.
 
Agree
 
@nwp eh... the tax man finds a way
 
12:33 PM
I do have to rework it a bit. For one, I don't know if gcc can digest it.
 
@EnnMichael honestly you're probably going to want to support things like term&& anyway so you can emplace bits
 
Hey, what you can do is inherit from vector privately and then do using for the functions you want to expose
 
@EnnMichael no you can't
 
That doesn't work?
 
you'll still have the same memory leak
 
nwp
12:35 PM
@EnnMichael I think you can do some using std::vector::whatever; instead which is slightly better.
 
The email is dead. Arrg! I'll have to reinstall latex. What a pain.
 
Well that what I said @nwp
But @Mgetz is shouting at me for it
@Mgetz Where's the memory leak when the inheritance is private?
 
@EnnMichael because if the destructor is non-virtual it still won't get called
 
I couldn't. this is pure C++98, with unknown MS extensions.
I know
 
@Mgetz You're wrong
 
12:37 PM
@EnnMichael show me the line in the standard
 
You'll always be calling the Polynomial<T> destructor which in turn also calls the std::vector destructor
 
@EnnMichael except that's not how inheritance in C++ works
 
You can't convert Polynomial<T>* to std::vector<T>* so you always know exactly what object you're destructing
 
The non-virtual issue arises only is if someone casts the Polynomial to a vector and deletes
 
@Mgetz It's private inheritance
 
12:38 PM
@EnnMichael as I said, show me the line in the standard that makes this less undefined behavior and I'll believe you
 
...Eh, whatever
 
... and it is a non-issue, really, since Polynomail<> has no other data members.
... according to the doc, and the source. No other data members, no virtual functions either
 
So, we all know that when you have D inheriting from B
And an object of type D
Not D*, D
Say, we have D d;
When this d object goes out of scope, D's destructor is called
Inheritance rules are that also B's destructor is called
So everything works fine
 
But it only bugs/leaks when D has data members with a destructor.
 
Now, the scenario of having a D* d = new D()
Doing a delete d; in this case calls the D destructor, in turn calling B destructor
Again, both destructors are called, so no leak
 
12:42 PM
And if D's destructor calls nothing, it doesn't matter if it's called,
 
And sizeof(*d) returns more than sizeof(B) (it returns sizeof(B) + size of D's extra members)
So what the fuck are you talking about?
 
Especially if D has no extra data members at all.
If class A does not have a virtual destructor, having an b object of type B->A.

No... If you cast B* object b to an A* then call delete, b's destructor is not called. And b's data members's dynamic data end up dangling.
In this case, can't happen. AND you can cast from vector<> to Polynomial as well, which can be handy. In any case, that's untested atm.
I initially wrote this to create audio filters.
It does work as is.
except for this nagging limitation of polynomials of degree 450+ in the Jenkins Traub roots solver. That's quite a bit of zeroes, already.
Thinking about it, this one may have a patent on it, though,
But it's really fast:)
 
1:10 PM
@Mgetz just don't call delete
:)
not on the base class pointer
 
This function shows some useful usage of the FLT_ constants. It evaluates a scaling factor so that the result of calculating p(x) doesn't overflow, provided that x < sqrt(DBL_INFINY). mroy.chez-alice.fr/polynomials/a00107.html#l01253. Gets the min and max coefficients, and finds the factoring value to avoid overflow. Useful for finding zeroes since these do not change with scaling
Yup don't ever cast to a vector
And some mechanical rounding error evaluation here mroy.chez-alice.fr/polynomials/a00107.html#l01063. That's one of the value I have to track to reduce the error statistically.
My idea is that since I'm supposed to get a real result, but get a complex number (with a small imaginary part), I need to recalibrate some intermediate results to increase precision, trade off some rounding error for statistical error that would bring me towards the real result, or spread the error across all 500 or so results. to reduce the 10 or so points I consider out of specs.
I have tio get this running on linux, and see how it works on long doubles with gcc. Changikng hd. Bye guys.
 
1:36 PM
@milleniumbug I got out of the conversation as soon as someone resorted to name calling because they couldn't bother to be civil. Honestly I try to avoid code that's not 'Jimmy' proof. Because allowing that sort of behavior just leads to pain even if it can be used safely and it's just slightly tricky.
2
 
@Mgetz Sure, I mean, I'm mostly fine with a bit of tricky code, if it enables you to do things you wouldn't easily do otherwise (basically passes through cost/benefit analysis); and in this case... it doesn't
 
@milleniumbug agreed, hence why for me it's a "try" not "always"
 
I used private inheritance once, and replacing it with your regular composition resulted in clearer code
 
@milleniumbug I have yet to find a valid reason to use private inheritance
 
user1804599
EBO
 
4:08 PM
The "Explaining Postmodernism" book is awesome.
 
4:21 PM
Thanks for the review.
 
@Columbo :D
I have not finished yet.
I am 65% through.
@Columbo It does what the title says, IMHO, nicely.
 
@wilx Noted. My sister sent me a few books I have to read first, though. Sapiens, and Hitch22.
 
@Columbo ...by Stephen R. C. Hicks.
 
Alright, so what is postmodernism?
 
@Columbo Left's reaction to crisis of faith in socialism.
Among many other things. :)
 
4:30 PM
What is Left
 
@Columbo In this context, those who have or had faith in Marx' socialism.
 
A camera falls from an airplane and ends at a trough for pigs. https://t.co/sKuZkeFUR6
 
Xeo
5:12 PM
That looks so weird due to the rotation....
 
@Xeo That moment when the cameras fps matches the rps
 
5:53 PM
@Fanael Persistent data structures were always there in C++? Have I been living under a rock? I only saw them in Clojure and Scala...
 
@fredoverflow There are plenty of usable libraries in the wild :p
 
Do they use reference counting or GC for structural sharing?
 
No fucking idea :D
I don't think there's a single "standard" library for immutable data structures, but several have a few hundred stars on GitHub, so I'd loook at that first.
 
> dig the sound. Guy needs to be working with larger equipment so he doesn't look like an angry mentally challenged guy trying to untangle Christmas lights, though.
rofl
 
I've seen several ones that used the names of the functions from the standard library, but returning new collections instead of altering in-place.
@fredoverflow Haha. He plays the guitar now :D
It's apéritif time. Lauter :)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:08 PM
I have finished the Explaining Postmodernism book. It is interesting read. You should read it, too! /cc @sehe
 
 
1 hour later…
8:13 PM
> 30 Years of Developing Software, 20 Years of Being a Parent, 10 Years of Being Old. (Effective: 2017)
That's a one-line bio I can appreciate
 
1 message moved to bin
 
WHy was my comment removed?
 
because this isn't Lounge<Blockchain>
 
lol its a lounge room and I'd like to dev a blockchain in C++...
 
@faceless read the last 5 paragraphs of this: blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160725-00/?p=93945 (starting from the "How should the customer [...]")
 
8:25 PM
Everything makes sense, except the "lol"
 
haha so it hasn't been done
okay, good...
 
:37686996 I like that you've seen it
 
omg this is hilarious
7 mins ago, by faceless
lol its a lounge room and I'd like to dev a blockchain in C++...
in C++ Questions and Answers, yesterday, by faceless
wowzer, i spent 5 hours total figuring this bubble algorithm out
 
Hey. You're stealing it :)
in C++ Questions and Answers, 5 mins ago, by sehe
@faceless that's why people start out with simpler algorithms, like block-chain from scratch
 
not stealing, but giving it a larger publicity :)
 
8:33 PM
You guys are really good at belittling a peer trying to learn
congrats to the both of you
 
I think you should start with the fruits on the lower hanging branches
 
*fruit
 
@faceless Sorry guy. Not belittling. But you know. @milleniumbug is somehow the nestor of that room. He is quite good at helping, I can assure you
To me it looks like you are the one who tries to manipulate people around you with fallacies. I think it's only fair someone told you.
 
Please explain how was manipulating?
 
8:36 PM
Man oh man, I've come here for help, not to be belittled...
Im here to learn, not to be berated by my peers
you guys really know how to make someone not want to come to them for help
I'm interested in blockchains, and would like to learn about them? And I asked someone who is a lot more knowledgeable in software development if they know of any resources that could help me in my path of learning
And sense I'm learning C++, I thought it would be appropriate to ask you people.
but I guess not, so thank you for making me feel like a shitty person for asking and for making me feel ignorant for something things i'm learning about...
 
@milleniumbug Lets be real, this is a log scale block chains are hard
 
daamn, too late to edit now
 
none of the articles about young people moving to socialism are titled "Seizing The Memes Of Production" and that's why print media is dying
4
 
8:55 PM
@faceless I'm sorry. It's not our fault that we can sniff up on the cluelessness. Dunning Kruger is a bitch. You asked experienced people and got an experienced response. You can knock it, or you can learn.
 
@milleniumbug Thanks for making this. I'm going to print it out and hang up on my wall as motivation to prove you wrong
 
+1 That is a spirit that will get you there. No irony here. I've batlled some stupid battles myself. And learned a huge amount. But be prepared to go walk the path alone if you don't accept any authority. Yes, that's also me speaking from experience.
You know. Sometimes people just try to prevent you from wasting effort. Or pain. But it's utlimately your choice. Go go. On to google. Those block chains won't learn themselves.
 
Thank you @sehe
 
Did not expect this turn of events.
++hope_in_future_programmers;
Has anyone tried Google's Bazel? (And if so, how was it?)
 
9:05 PM
Millenials finally getting serious about buying houses https://twitter.com/TIME/status/876174212964208641
That's. Quality nerding.
 
@sehe The replies are awesome (at least the first few)
 
lol I live in oxnard, where the guys stole the avocados...
 
10:00 PM
 
10:40 PM
Captain America: Civil War was longer than I expected.
@blobert @TIME I'm here for the diversity mug shots. Progress.
LMAO.
@Mikhail It is all their fault!
Also, I am drunk on some Port.
Also, I should go to bed.
Geebus. I have good mood. Too bad it is alcohol driven.
 
It's been so many years I didn't write anything in C++, man I hate declaring pointer arrays.
 
nwp
@wilx Well, you've come to the right place to fix that.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Literally anything or just mostly something else?
I have been doing too much Java last 3 years.
 
nwp
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Not that bad if you don't use C-arrays.
 
@wilx Yeah I haven't touched c++ for years.
@nwp Well I want to get back into electronics and I think I'll limit myself to C-Arrays
I wanted to use the syntax suger new int[4][4] {{},...{}}; but the compiler doesn't let me assign it no anything;
 
nwp
10:52 PM
I don't understand why you think limiting yourself to the thing you hate is the correct course of action.
 
@nwp well the chip is running at 16mhz I have to handle 2 motors. Maybe I'm over optimizing
@nwp Well in fact, it seems arduino doesn't have the std containers.
 
@Mikhail how many avocados is that?
 
FML. I got a BrainBox's RS232 card that doesn't like my MAC 5000 stage controller. So, every time I boot Windows I need to reinstall the driver to get a new COM number. On other machines the RS232 card and MAC 5000 controller connect out of the box.
idk, is something just bad with these brands?
 
11:17 PM
The first step into a good C++ future is done with a new standard proposal https://github.com/FelixPetriconi/future_proposal/blob/v1.1/proposal.md by @david_sankel, @SeanParent and me.
/cc @sehe, I think you weere interested in this too?
@jaggedSpire JAGGY <3
 
@Borgleader BORGLEADER <3
 
^.^
 
1:22am! I will be so sleepy in the morning!
 
11:44 PM
It's time they knew … https://t.co/wt7XfXqTM6
 

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