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1:04 PM
sorry for the poor description of my question. I have just restarted my Linux machine and all works fine now. — vimalnath 14 mins ago
Huh? ^ That question is 5 months old...
 
sbi
@sehe It took that machine a while to boot then.
 
lol
 
Questions that get tweeted by someone with a lot of followers receive so many more votes than conventional questions, it’s not even funny
I can’t help thinking that this system is really unfair
 
sbi
Someone just felt the need to downvote my most important rules of thumb for operator overloading. Of course, they didn't comment. Oh well, it's got 15 times as many upvotes as downvotes.
@KonradRudolph Votes correlates mostly with views, not with accuracy. Welcome to the web!
 
hi :)
 
1:08 PM
some of the biggest downvoters are in this room
 
Wondering at which subject @GManNickG is graduating.. CS?
 
@classdaknok_t Shouldn't it be Intergalactic?
 
Maybe.
 
@sbi Yes, of course
 
@sbi Trying to integrate CMake somehow with Visual Studio made me understand why you refuse to use it.
 
sbi
1:09 PM
@Scottymac I only know the size of very few of the most frequent users. None of them are particular big. (Well, maybe I am.)
 
@Nils maybe blue to red via violet?
(using a slightly different meaning of the word “to graduate”)
 
sbi
@Nils Oh, I had to use that. A PITA at the best of times.
 
hehe
 
I'm pretty small myself.
 
@sbi Right now using VS 2008 and svn. I am looking for a solution to automatically build everything (release and debug) and also run tests..
 
sbi
1:14 PM
@Nils For builds, use msbuild.exe. For automated tests, use Jenkins.
 
@sbi Last time I used CMake it was under Linux where I compiled everything on the command line anyways, there it does not make a difference.
 
Jenkins is cool.
 
@sbi thx for the recommendation, I guess I have to have a look at Jenkins.
How much time would you plan to setup a build server?
 
sbi
@Nils A couple of years ago I was in a two-developer team evaluating automatic build and test tools. There were some that had very appealing features Jenkins is missing, but none was easier to setup than Jenkins. By far. I suppose you can be up and running your first tests after an hour or two.
 
ugh COM
0
Q: COM: Access violation making a SafeArray of BSTRs

Sideshow BobThe following code worked just fine thank you with one COM client, but with a new client (the updated version of the same software) string_array_to_bstr_safearray_variant throws an access violation and everything dies. Can anyone tell me if I'm doing something wrong that I was getting away with ...

 
1:17 PM
Jenkins has virtually no setup friction, AFAICT.
 
@sbi True. But the accuracy often determines the polarity of those votes :)
 
19
A: Pros and cons of PHP vs C,C++ as language in a programming interview?

jalfTwo points to keep in mind: do what the interviewer wants. If you're interviewing for a PHP position, then write your code in PHP. PHP is a terrible language. Don't uses it unless the interviewer wants to see it.

LOL those comments.
 
yeah but it has to checkout automatically, then build everything, run the tests and show the results somehow..
 
sbi
@sehe Most postings that go viral are good ones (although there are a few notable exceptions).
 
I think integrating googletest might takes some time.
 
1:24 PM
@Nils googletest supports JUnit XML output, and that's pretty much the lingua franca of test reports.
Jenkins supports that out of the box.
 
@sehe I am being banned from asking question. So. just correcting the questions I asked, so I can uplift the ban. — vimalnath 17 mins ago
 
I'm just sad that Catch seems to generate broken output in JUnit mode :(
 
ah.. I never bothered with the xml output..
 
So, all you really need is to invoke the test runner with the flags to produce xml output in your build configuration, and tell Jenkins where to find the output file.
 
sbi
@sehe I was surprised how you managed to get quoting style plus replying to another message into one message, but then I saw oneboxing did the former for you.
 
1:28 PM
nice
.. so we will have either working builds or somebody who brings breakfast the next day :)
btw I am not sure weather I understand "to graduate" correctly. Does it mean that somebody completed his BS or MS?
 
That flagged pic was hilarious
 
Yes, when someone completes the bullshit, they graduate. SCNR
 
:)
 
sbi
@sehe I validated the flag, because I understood "gay" to be used as a swear word there.
 
sbi
1:33 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I was thinking the same, but didn't manage to tickle that joke out of it. It's spelled BSc, isn't it?
 
@sbi I did too. But I found the pic used hilarious
 
will you flag me now? :P
 
It was my immediate though. I thought about factoring: BS / MS = (B/M) S = (Bull/Micro) S...
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Why?
 
so.. back to work, enjoy the Weekend!
 
1:34 PM
1 min ago, by Tony The Lion
gay
 
@Nils Have fun.
 
@TonyTheLion missed that the first time
 
I will not flag fags :)
SCNR
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion I don't see anything bad in using the word. I dislike it being used as a swear word, only, as if being "gay" was something despicable.
 
1:35 PM
RT @walkingrandomly: EU rules that computer languages cannot be copyrighted. http://ow.ly/1LEmCx
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that was on Reddit three days ago
repost
 
> “The functionality of a computer program and the programming language cannot be protected by copyright”.
@TonyTheLion :(
 
@TonyTheLion It's not a repost here!
 
I know, I was being a dick
 
1:36 PM
(I'm totally guessing, I might have missed it)
@TonyTheLion How could it be there three days ago, if the press release is from two days ago?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes don't be pedantic
lulz
why did you remove that?
was entertaining
 
sbi
:3576497 Those are merely errors in the implementation of the language. I think @jalf was more hinting at the language itself being horrible.
 
@TonyTheLion It's up there with the P.SE question. I figured it was a bit overkill to cross post here since the Q had been linked
@sbi Not just. Also manifestations of broken design
 
strange though, that the string comparison of a number fails when it's near MAX_INT
it's NOT a number but string
it's just a matter of comparing the ASCII values of the digits, isn't it?
 
@TonyTheLion The algorithm which compares two strings use an int to loop through its characters. :)
 
user784668
1:43 PM
@TonyTheLion It's a number.
 
It's a thing.
 
I don't get it
:(
 
@TonyTheLion So, when the integer index approaches MAX_INT, it cannot move beyond.
Rather, it can, but likely not with desired results
 
@sbi: this logic in the responses:
> ok, enough arguing. There is no bug here
Also, gross violations of the principle of least surprise
 
1:45 PM
looping though this as a string, "9223372036854775807" does not need a loop that goes to MAX_INT
 
@TonyTheLion Oh, thought you meant the size of the string.
 
user784668
@sehe The principle of least surprise doesn't apply to PHP.
 
@TonyTheLion There shouldn't be any problem with that. That, in fact, is how BigInteger is implemented.
 
std::string number = "9223372036854775807"; for (size_t x= 0; x < number.size(); x++) { std::cout << number[x]; }
x is never MAX_INT
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion warning: y u compare signed and unsigned
 
1:46 PM
@sbi That second one was in Java as well.
 
@Fanael PHP has no principles
 
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion PHP has a principle of greatest surprise.
 
Basically, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
user406009
@TonyTheLion IIRC PHP automatically converts strings to numbers whenever it can.
 
1:50 PM
@EthanSteinberg And probably even when it can't.
 
@EthanSteinberg But also in cases where it cannot not, leading to surprises comparing identical strings, which compare as different. IIRC from that linked bug
 
user784668
Moral of the story: if you have to use PHP and you want to compare something, use ===. Always.
 
user406009
Or just don't use PHP.
5
 
user784668
@EthanSteinberg Fixed.
 
'True' !== 1
 
1:54 PM
@Neil even in C++, 'True' != 1
 
@Abyx That's a syntax error!
 
as well as "True" != 1
@sehe it's not
 
Convince me. Are you saying some compilers accept that as an unusually 'wide' char literal?
 
'True' is a valid int
 
@sehe it's not.
 
1:55 PM
@sehe It's crazy, but it's valid.
 
aargh, the vim on our cluster is 7.2 which hasn’t undofile yet
 
let me open standard...
 
@Abyx I'm ready for a big surprise...
 
@KonradRudolph What's that?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Infinite, persistent per-file undo history
 
1:57 PM
> /test.cpp:3:13: warning: multi-character character constant
 
% cat foo.cc
int main() {
  'True';
}
% clang++ foo.cc -pedantic
foo.cc:2:3: warning: multi-character character constant
      [-pedantic,-Wfour-char-constants]
  'True';
  ^
1 warning generated.
 
user784668
@KonradRudolph 7.2? Is it something from pre-WWII?
 
@Abyx so... indeed, a very wide char. I stand corrected.
 
@Fanael hmm? No, it’s actually relatively recent
 
It gives the warning because of -pedantic. That's strange.
 
1:58 PM
it's just a "character literal"
 
user784668
@KonradRudolph Wikipedia says it's from 2008. IOW, terribly outdated.
 
character-literal:
’ c-char-sequence ’
 
@classdaknok_t g++ gives the warning without -pedantic
 
@Fanael Yes, of course it’s outdated. Hardly WWII or any other kind of hyperbole though
realistically, which server only runs the current software?!
 
1:59 PM
@sehe clang too, but it explicitly says that the warning is due to -pedantic: "warning: multi-character character constant [-pedantic,-Wfour-char-constants]"
 
1 min ago, by sehe
@Abyx so... indeed, a very wide char. I stand corrected.
 
user784668
@sehe csharp_grammar.html. Nuff said.
 
character-literal:
’ c-char-sequence ’
u’ c-char-sequence ’
U’ c-char-sequence ’
L’ c-char-sequence ’
c-char-sequence:
c-char
c-char-sequence c-char
c-char:
any member of the source character set except
the single-quote ’, backslash \, or new-line character
escape-sequence
universal-character-name
 
@Fanael Oh I found the wrong link
 
@Abyx then what's the type of 'True'? int or char?
 
2:00 PM
@Fanael Fixed the link. And, you didn't actually read. Possibly a few of my last messages.
 
In C++ of course. In C all character constants are ints.
 
@classdaknok_t the type is "int"
 
In other news, that hyperlinked grammar contains c++11 stuff too
 
@Abyx and 'x' is also an int?
 
@classdaknok_t no, it's char
 
2:01 PM
Thanks for the clarification.
 
user406009
Wait, so what is the type of 'hi!'?
 
@EthanSteinberg int.
 
@EthanSteinberg 3int/4.
 
> An ordinary character literal that contains a single c-char has type char, with value equal to the numerical value of the
encoding of the c-char in the execution character set. An ordinary character literal that contains more than
one c-char is a multicharacter literal. A multicharacter literal has type int and implementation-defined
value.
 
What's the type of '??!'?
 
2:03 PM
std::trigraph
 
user784668
@sehe You're trying to say you're discussing C# now?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Depends on whether you enabled them
@Fanael No I'm not. I'm saying you are not reading well, since you still ask that.
 
damn you markdown =\ I'll never learn how to use it
 
Rule #1 of chat markdown: don't use multiple lines.
 
5 mins ago, by sehe
@Abyx http://www.nongnu.org/hcb/#character-literal
 
2:04 PM
Something like int main() <% std::cout << "WTF??!\n"; %> would be great for an IOC++CC.
 
@Fanael try that link again? It would be the first C# grammar that implements C++0x features, AFAIK
 
@classdaknok_t Not really.
A computer program can make that readable.
Which makes it not very obfuscated.
 
Point.
 
user784668
@sehe I have noticed that you fixed the link.
 
@Fanael Then I fully don't comprehend why you suggest I'm discussing another language.
 
user784668
2:06 PM
@sehe Because you did post a link to C# grammar. You fixed that, of course.
 
user784668
@sehe I cannot remove nor edit the message where I pointed out that it's a C# grammar now, it's too late, you know.
 
sbi
> Thinking you can learn about making love to a woman from watching porn is like thinking you can learn to drive from watching 'The Fast and the Furious' — Mary-Beth Williams
 
@Fanael So what. It's not about that. That message was from 15:59, whereas you still went on about it 16:03, 4-7 minutes after I acknowledged the mistake, fixed the link etc.
 
2:13 PM
Guys I've done something really weird! ....
Check this out ...
 
user784668
@sehe Yes, because you accused me of not reading.
 
sbi
@Olumide Oh boy. What's it gonna be...
 
user784668
14 mins ago, by sehe
@Fanael Fixed the link. And, you didn't actually read. Possibly a few of my last messages.
 
oh my... you're still talking about that C# link
 
template<typename T>
class PropertyGenerics
{}

class GizmoProperties : public Foo , public Bar , PropertyGenerics<GizmoProperties>
{

};
 
sbi
2:14 PM
@Olumide It's called CRTP. Read up on it.
 
@Olumide you forgot ; at 3rd line
 
So its valid!
I was worried.
 
sbi
@Olumide Not without the semicolon.
 
@Olumide Worried that your compiler would jump at you and eat your left pinky?
 
Hurrah! I reinvented the wheel! :)
5
 
sbi
2:16 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'd miss my right one more. I just found out I use it a lot — to type the semicolon.
 
You type with your pinkies?
I only use them for modifier keys.
 
I see, CRTP is on page 295 of "C++ Templates : the complete guide" but I'm on page 271.
... And I think I've started to understand SFINAE via Traits :)
 
Since I've moved to Italy, I've had to completely relearn the standard asdfjkl; keyboard, since here it's more like asdfjklò. When am I going to use freakin' ò more than I'll use ; I ask you!? Huh!?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes On German keyboard, the semicolon is on the comma key and needs the shift key. The right shift key I type with my right pinky.
 
@Neil you have a strange definition of "standard". Most non-US layouts change the keys after l
@sbi Same here. Is { and } as stupid on German keyboards as it is on Danish? alt+8/9?
 
2:23 PM
@jalf no 7 and 0
 
Of course, that wasn't bad enough for Steve Jobs. So on Apple, it's alt-shift-8/9
@bamboon but with alt modifier?
 
@jalf it's altgr
 
sbi
@jalf AltGr, which replaces the right Alt key.
 
@sbi yeah
Such a pain to type without tying your hand into a knot
whoever came up with it was NOT a programmer
 
user784668
I don't have that problem, Polish keyboard layout is the same as the US one.
 
2:24 PM
wow, I watched this go down 4 votes in like 10 seconds...
 
sbi
Yeah. I usually hit the AltGr key with my right thumb, and the 7 and 0 keys with the forefinger. It takes a lot of stretching to reach the 7.
 
-5
Q: Some questions on C language (C89)

BushSorry for my English. Below I listed questions answers on which I look for for C language (C89). How can I get processors count? How can I get processor cores count? How can I get processor name? How can I get RAM size? How to learn level of loading of this or that processor (or core)? Regards

 
@sbi oh yeah sorry, it's 7 and 0 on normal DK keyboards too. Just on my mac now, where it's AltGr+shift+8/9
 
Well, you did miss the fact that I had already conceded my mistake on the whole 'syntax error' business before that point. I guess my tacky remark about not reading was prompted by your rather snarky 'Nuff said'.
I mean, come on, you'd _think_ I know the difference, no?
@Fanael Anyways, I'm happy to close the book on this one. We misunderstood, and chat can be disorienting. It is easy to track one's own messages and how they were intended. Not so much for others, sometimes :)
 
2
A: Some questions on C language (C89)

sbi You need an OS API. You need an OS API. You need an OS API. You need an OS API. You need an OS API.

lol, nice :)
 
sbi
2:26 PM
@Mysticial I managed to answer that question 37 secs after it was closed. I have no idea how I did that.
 
I read somewhere on meta that there's a grace period
 
user784668
@jalf But you guys don't have to use modifier keys to type national characters, which is nice when not writing code.
 
sbi
@Mysticial One more reason to like Grace.
 
lol
 
@Fanael that's true
 
2:29 PM
Too many grace periods :)
 
sbi
@Fanael We Germans only have four of those: äöüß. As a programmer, however, I never need them. What I do need a lot are those: {}[]\~@, and they need AltGr. :(
 
@sbi (Grace presumable has a period too, once in a while) SCNR
 
user784668
@sbi You never write German?
 
sbi
@sehe I think her/his sex isn't undisputed.
 
Oops assuming too much again
@sbi What! Outrageous. Can't you just buy a US-INTL layout keyboard?
 
sbi
2:31 PM
@Fanael Not "as a programmer." All the programming languages I learned are based on English.
 
user784668
@sbi You can always switch the layout when writing code.
 
user784668
@sbi Ah, right.
 
sbi
@Fanael Some do that here. But then I'd have to deal with two keyboard layouts. (Most programmers don't do that, so when you're at someone else's keyboard, your busted. Also, I do have to write some German once in a while, where I need those pesky umlauts.)
 
@sbi have you learnt PHP?
From its error messages, I can tell it's based on Hebrew. :P
 
@classdaknok_t "Learn't" FTFY
 
2:34 PM
I don't care, I'm based on Dutch.
 
@classdaknok_t Well, at least it would be RTL, gcc likes to put it Bottom-To-Top IYAM
 
sbi
I have recently installed a keyboard app on my Android phone that allows switching between languages and has äöüß in the German layout. But I have to look at what I type on those touch screens anyway. It's different on a real keyboard when I program.
@sehe ROTFL!
 
T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is a real WTF among the noobs PHP programmers.
 
sbi
@classdaknok_t No. In fact, since I learned a bunch of programming languages as a student, I have learned very few new languages. I guess I'm an old fart, and too conservative.
 
@sbi Ha. You got the reference
 
sbi
2:36 PM
@sehe Yep, saw it earlier.
@classdaknok_t Is that Perl? Because it looks like you're cat's been on the keyboard.
 
I plinked you only to make the message traceable in case @classdaknokt wants to know what it's about :)
 
It's PHP.
Paamayim nekudotayim is Hebrew for double colon.
 
sbi
@classdaknok_t Is it? I thought Hebrew doesn't use vocals?
 
The scope resolution operator. PHP uses it in error messages.
 
Transliterated, I presume
 
2:38 PM
> In PHP, the scope resolution operator is also called Paamayim Nekudotayim (Hebrew: פעמיים נקודתיים‎, pronounced [paʔaˈmajim nəkudoˈtajim]), which means "twice colon" or "double dot twice" in Hebrew.
 
Hebrew: פעמיים נקודתיים‎, pronounced [paʔaˈmajim nəkudoˈtajim]
you beat me to it :) Let me at least link to it then: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_resolution_operator#PHP
 
user784668
@sbi I would probably kill myself if I didn't switch layouts. I mean, usually I use Polish layout (which is the US one with the addition of AltGr for national characters), but sometimes I need to write German, Finnish (okay, that's easy, both ä and ö exist in German) or Irish. And I don't want to memorize Unicode code points for all the characters I need.
 
@sehe but how is that pronounced?
 
sbi
@classdaknok_t One of my students called :: "the dice operator". I liked that. :)
 
2:39 PM
@sehe meh
 
sbi
@thecoshman It says so right there: "paʔaˈmajim nəkudoˈtajim"
 
user784668
Yay, glottal stop.
 
Turns out there isn't an audio link, I could find
 
@sbi pah-dah mah-jim nek-you-doh tah-jim
yay, I can speak Hebrew :D
 
sbi
@sehe It's not like he would had clicked on it anyway.
 
2:42 PM
@sbi ¬_¬ you know me too well
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, you spoke that with British pronunciation. Try again.
 
@thecoshman No. You 'meh' out loud
 
@sbi I best not, I'd only end up being racist :(
 
Anyways, it is probably also the reason why PHP is a palindrome. That way, it doesn't matter whether the text direction is RightToLeft or LeftToRight.
This came in handy, when I tried to google more info, but wanted to skip all the php related articles:
 
mawnin
 
2:44 PM
@sehe you're implying that the inventor of PHP had this kind of foresight and awareness of the problems a web programming language might have to face?
Yeah right...
 
@jalf I think you missed a bit of the conversation. PHP has Hebrew roots, as we were discussing at length.
Must be Friday
Just star it instead of doing the kneejerk scepticism (because you spot the word PHP) :)
 
@sehe It was originally invented by a dane. Whatever hebrew influences it may or may not have came later
 
sbi
@sehe What do you mean, "only"?
 
@jalf Chauvinism? On PHP?
@sbi Fixed. I can still strip 15 more words :)
 
The name was retrofitted as well. It originally meant "Personal Homepage Processor", or something catchy like that. The whole recursive acronym came later, after slightly less incompetent developers were involved
 
2:47 PM
Whoa, now that I'm migrating my data from my old hard drives to my new hard drive, I realize how loud my old hard drives were!
 
PHP: Horrible Pieceofcrap
 
sbi
@jalf Actually that's a slight simplification:
> PHP development began in 1994 when the Danish/Greenlandic/Canadian programmer Rasmus Lerdorf initially created a set of Perl scripts he called "Personal Home Page Tools" to maintain his personal homepage. — Wikipedia
 
So we should blame Perl?
 
I find it ironic that normal people say, "PHP?" and you'd have to explain what the acronym means. Though, if you had said "Personal Homepage Processor" to a programmer, he'd go, "Personal Homepage Processor?" To which you'd have to respond "PHP." "Oh.. oh I see.."
 
@sbi Yeah, but very slight, I think. Born in Greenland (which, technically, is under Denmark too), grew up in Denmark, moved to Canada as a teen.
of course, I'd be more than happy if we could pretend he had some other nationality :)
but yeah, I remembered the name wrong :)
 
2:51 PM
I like Scandinavia. Sane governments, good music, no extreme heat during summer.
 
@classdaknok_t That depends on how you define "sane"
 
Yes, for me 30º is extreme heat.
 
@jalf In Scandinavia, hamburger eats you!
Or that's Soviet Russia. My bad.
 
user784668
@Neil s/Scandinavia/Soviet Russia/g
 
@classdaknok_t I'm not even sure whether you'd ever reach the end of that expansion, should you stream that as part of a HTTP response with php.
Somehow I have the feeling that php will detect 'eof' midstream and close the connection. Of course, a lengthy discussion on the PHP bugtracker would patiently explain how that feature was specificly designed to protect php developers from 'crap'
 
2:55 PM
Wonder where that derived from.. there had to have been some guy who actually meant it to begin with, before someone took it and ran like the wind.
 
@jalf Here it's Alt+7/0.
 
PHP is really the most horrible language I have ever used. It's difficult to set up a web app, because you need to install a web server, you need to install PHP and all that crap and it's just a real pain in the ass. You cannot have multiple web apps on the same machine with different configuration without having multiple installations of PHP (due to php.ini). Besides, PHP is more inconsistent than French.
 
@classdaknok_t yeah, I get rather uncomfortable at 25 :P
 
℃, of course. I was just too lazy to look up that character. But now I did.
"ºC" is incorrect to me.
ºC is degrees Coulomb.
 

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