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12:00 AM
52 secs ago, by sehe
36 mins ago, by sehe
night owl all
wow, I just figured out how to do that
permalink FTW
 
cheers
 
I find that quantum hot article to be really funny, it's basically a synopsis of an episode of Nova + a simplistic explanation of why relativity f*cks with quantum stuff when you get really hot
I want to delete that article, or word it more strongly to suggest that it is not an actual thing
everyone is gone and I am all alone
gossip girl is there for me, though
 
@stdOrgnlDave Actually on Bruce Schneier's blog there are a number of interesting comments on this topic
> Stego is not effective unless your opponent is your little sister
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I figured it out, it requires me to store one additional iterator, but I can do that.
 
@sehe I haven't gotten to any comments yet that don't look like they were written by my hypothetical little sister
 
12:09 AM
@stdOrgnlDave (I overlooked this message) How trivial is the sort? The sort is short, but confusing. I have to rewrite it though, I thought of an optimization.
And now: I'm off to the movies with my fiance.
 
Austria is not an arab country
 
@stdOrgnlDave We should pin that. That is an important news flash :)
 
omfg, austria is not an arab country! all these commenters keep talking about if the dude was arab! grawr
nobody is even mentioning "plausible deniability" being a reason to stick it in a physically carried porn movie. you know, plausibly deny there is anything to hide. GPG makes it obvious you're hiding something
"Take a whole rgb snapshot then compare the light(hue) fluctuation, as encryption would have large difference say 0x31 ->0xff." these people are tards
 
Wait, are you saying that anyone and everyone that uses GPG is hiding something?
 
no, I'm saying that people saying "why not just use GPG!" are stupid
in the comments there
the reason is so that they can't detain him, say he's a terrorist, and demand a key. "it's just a porno!" is a much better defense than "no you can't have my password!"
 
12:18 AM
Also known as steganography.
 
@stdOrgnlDave you're highlighting the bad comments. You can do that everywhere, as long as the internet is a public place, there will be plenty to highlight
> "They'll never think to look for my explosives hidden in this big bag of cocaine!"
 
I just made it to the bottom of the comments and only found one that was any good
@sehe Sherlock Holmes 2 (movie) did that already. "who looks for a gunshot in an explosion?"
 
> a) They went to the trouble to use stego to hide the documents; then b) Hid the USB key in his underwear, which is just makes a mockery of the whole point of hiding secrets in plain sight
@stdOrgnlDave similar, though not quite the same. It's also not about the idea. It's about the point he was making.
 
what was the point?
about the cocaine thing
 
Well, for one, it wasn't about cocaine.
 
12:20 AM
:-P
it was about hiding one illegal thing in another. but he was an austrian traveling through germany both of which places porn is absolutely allowed
half the posts are invalidated by everyone saying he's an arab
 
@stdOrgnlDave The choice of carrier (porn) and hiding place (underwear) are bad choices especially in combination as it attracts attention. This defeats the purpose of stego
 
@sehe that was the only worthwhile comment
 
@stdOrgnlDave Hehe. That was mine. It summarizes some of the things I thought were on-target
In isolation I'd say using porn as the 'medium' is a very good choice. Only, you'd need to be cool about carrying it to pull it off
 
Alan Kaminsky's comment was a pretty good crypto joke though
 
@stdOrgnlDave Too bad that it hinges on the assumption of a public key. I'd say there was none
 
12:25 AM
...that's the joke
 
@stdOrgnlDave Oh. I thought it fell flat because it didn't add up. I appreciated the attempt, though
 
@sehe I actually don't read schneier's blog much, so, are comments always that low quality?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I mind that stretch of reality more than the 's/a-muslim-al-qeada-member-who-was-on-an-international-watchlist/arab-stereotype/g' (at least to the average joe customs)
@stdOrgnlDave yup. But he has friends in the field that come by too. So on larger comment threads you can usually find some insight. Not anymore on the mandatory rehashes of 'why passwords are bad'-type of actuality-posts
It's a lot like the internet, really. You know, reddit, y-combinator, chat, or indeed, popular guys' blogs :)
 
I usually generalize to clients that security is not about the ability to keep an intruder out, but rather, how hard you can make it for the intruder to get in. in that sense, I think they actually did a pretty good job making that information secure
 
43 mins ago, by sehe
I must admit I'm pretty impressed with the skill and grit required to hide the information that well
 
12:32 AM
security != degree of hiddenness
 
@stdOrgnlDave That, and limit the damage: prepare for breaches (recover and contain)
 
I wonder if he was a courrier and thought "well gee they told me to becareful with this so I'll hide it in my underwear" and everyone in al qeada has a palm imprint on their face after reading this
 
That sounds likely. However, some rumours state that the steg software was sitting on the same memory device(s). That doesn't jibe with the idea that he was 'just a runner'
 
how could it have taken them weeks of effort to run the program against the movie? unless that means "it sat on someone's desk for a few weeks until he thought he should look at it"
 
So either he wasn't a runner and didn't have the guts to carry it out in the open. Or he was a runner and was trusted with more information than he needed to know. (Or they rushed things)
 
12:36 AM
well, here's a signalling problem
 
@stdOrgnlDave Finding out the encryption scheme + password
 
if he's a known to be a runner by the enemy, and he doesn't hide it in his underpants, that is more supicious
telling him whether or not to hide it in his underwear leaks information
 
We can't really make these fine judgments without a lot more background info.
So, once again, I'm going to try to reach the Shutdown button before the chat scrolls
 
I know, that makes tons of assumptions. the article is very lacking. for all we know some Arab guy could've walked up to him and given him $1000 and said "go here with this drive in your underpants"
no, before you do that -
 
(Thx for insightful comments. I like that happening here. I'm in no way a security expert but I like to hone my thinking)
 
12:39 AM
what is your background in security?
ahh, tx
goodnight
 
@stdOrgnlDave Yours?
 
@sehe applied academic? is that a good way to put it? hm
I have to go for a bit, ttyl
 
I'm always the expert malgré-lui. Pretty much regardless of topic. The most important lesson: (1) the expert is the one with the most patience and stamina (2) try to know what you don't know and relay to real experts when appropriate
Cheers, night
 
ha, I have so much patience and stamina when it comes to security it's ridiculous
 
:)
So... you've reimplemented tarsnap for online backup purposes ?
(that chat keeps scrolling. perhaps I'll try <Scroll Lock>)
 
12:47 AM
I really am starting to like the power of C++
Is there a good resource where I can learn it
 
@Michiko c++-faq tag questions are good source.
 
@Mahesh Where can I find that?
oh i see
 
Yes, I guess I want to do a hello world app
up until this point I just pinvoke methods in C#... feel like im flying blind
although slowly it's starting make sense
everytime i get frustrated with C# there's a C++ solution for that
 
12:58 AM
Every time I get frustrated with C++ there's a C# solution for that.
 
Every time there's a Haskell solution for that.
 
But there's never a Java solution for that.
 
No, sir.
 
Or, at least, there's never one that does not include pain and suffering.
 
Java solves problems by heaping other problems on top of them and hoping for an overflow.
 
1:00 AM
What's the purpose of making a "dll" and having a "lib" as an external dependency for it ?
 
@Mahesh There's two questions in there.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know what is dll and lib and the differences between two. But I don't understand the scenario of making one dependent on other.
 
The lib essentially contains the stubs that the compiler will link to. Those stubs will be linked with the actual functions at runtime when the DLL is loaded.
 
IS cin cout C++?
 
Yes.
 
1:05 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Declarations would any how come from the header file and definitions from the dll ? Thats it. I don't understand the role of lib here.
 
what is that for?
 
@CatPlusPlus all it gets for its efforts are NullPtrExceptions. talk about fail.
 
@Mahesh You don't link with the DLL.
 
can i use that for my hello world app?
 
I know on UNIX you can just link with the .so, but on Windows, you need the .lib.
(Or, at least, you need it if you don't give a shit)
@Michiko Woa there. You must be new.
 
1:07 AM
@EtiennedeMartel I am confused. Dynamic Linking Library, I clearly see the word linking
 
@Mahesh Yeah, you link with the DLL... at runtime.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, it's true.. i use pinvoke methods in C# all the time but i want to start programming in pure C++
 
@Mahesh But at compile time, you need the function definitions, and those come from the .lib
@Michiko cout and cin are stream objects (declared in iostream) that respectively represent standard output and input.
 
@Michiko Do you have a C++ compiler?
 
@EtiennedeMartel At compile time, all it needs is declarations. Compiler should see it's declarations. Its happy. It doesn't bother about definitions. Until linking phase comes, definitions doesn't come to picture. Would you agree that ?
 
1:10 AM
@Mahesh Yeah, but the linking is split in two.
First half is done by the linker, with the .lib, and the second part is done by the runtime, with the .dll
 
@GManNickG I'm using visual studio 2010
 
@Michiko Okay, so what was the question?
 
@EtiennedeMartel So, if I am making a dll, should it definitely have a lib associated with it ?
 
@GManNickG I want to make a hello world app in C++ and go from there learning it
 
Ok, so what are you stuck on?
 
1:13 AM
You can generate an import lib from any DLL.
 
is printf c++?
 
@Michiko No, it's C.
 
oh
yeah i guess this old borland book is confusing me
was only 50 cents
 
Yes, it's C++. It comes from C, but C is purposefully included into C++ with (minor changes here or there for compatibility.) Whether or not you should use it in a good C++ program is another question.
And you're definitely going to want to get a new book, pick one from the book list.
 
std::printf is C++
 
1:16 AM
nice book list.. im broke though
doubt i could get any of this stuff :(
 
@MooingDuck is this learning C guy in C for real?
 
Thinking in C++ sounds like the perfect book
 
oh, he's here too
 
@stdOrgnlDave Did you think he was a bot?
 
yes, now I'm not sure he's over 13, which is fine, just...this whole situation is odd
 
1:18 AM
@stdOrgnlDave he's actually in college, just poor teachers
 
@MooingDuck aww :-(
 
@Michiko Where do you live? I have a copy of C++ Primer I've never opened and never will open.
 
I live in Central LA
That book might be good too.. are you local?
 
I'm in Washington. Let me see how much it would be to ship.
 
@ScottW The band Phoenix says they love you too
 
1:24 AM
@Michiko I highly recommend reading C++ Primer (not C++ Primer Plus) and Accelerated C++
 
ok
i can paypal the shipping cost
 
I wonder if fundamentals C++ books are gonna change a lot to accommodate C++11, or if it'll be recommended you learn C++03 then C++11
 
I think the next editions will simply incorporate C++11 idioms alongside C++03, with the editions following that being purely C++11. That's my guess...
 
C++11 kind of makes a lot of C++03 stuff obsolete though
I mean, you know what I mean
 
Yeah, but guaranteeing people will have a C++11 compiler readily available on their systems probably won't happen for another couple of years
 
1:28 AM
but C++ takes years of experience to master - should you be teaching them wrong? and GCC is free, even if MSVC11 has it (currently) beaten on C++11
 
gcc-4.7 was just released and it still doesn't have all C++11 features
To my knowledge, gcc is beating MSVC11??
 
GCC is beating MSVC on paper, maybe
but it still crashes over trivial cases
gives unhelpful errors etc.
MSVC is a lot more consistent/less hackish ATM
 
Hrm, I haven't run into any problems myself with gcc. I also don't use MSVC, so...
 
@RGeorgeMartinez had a really trivial failure case the other day, actually he had like 4 of them
one of them was
int main() { int x = 4; [&] (int) { x = 2; }; }
it wouldn't compile unless he put a "return" in the lambda
...if I remember correctly
and its concurrency support is...lacking, to say the least.
MS is all over concurrency
 
I take my statement back. I have run into funny things before, but they were fixed by using the latest version of the compiler. But all this just goes to my original point that these things won't be ironed out for a while. :)
 
1:33 AM
@Michiko My email is gmannickg@gmail.com, send me an email.
 
Herb Sutter had a nice graphic in one of his talks giving an outline on the status of the good books for learning C++.
I'll see if I can find it.
So it appears C++ Primer will be updated this year!
 
@GManNickG kk
 
I think Bjarne is waiting for a while on his book so that he can write all examples in C++11. I highly doubt C++ Primer is going to have everything written for C++11.
That graphic comes from channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/… the entire series of videos is pretty great
 
2:02 AM
if someone has you on ignore, do you auto-ignore them too on SO?
 
Probably not.
 
2:24 AM
Anyone here proficient in COM development? Need some assistance.
 
user406009
Quick question: If a class's first member is a char array, is it legal to stuff bytes using a pointer to an instance of the class with something like memcpy?
 
Not in the general case.
IIRC you need Standard-layout and use the common initial subsequence rule.
 
2:51 AM
is anyone else here an archer?
@EthanSteinberg if it's POD, it's legal-ish. is it UB? I forget
Wow, I'm outspoken, sweet
Apparently only 202 other people in the whole world are outspoken on StackOverflow
 
I have an issue with COM reference counting. Can anyone help me?
 
did you use a smart pointer?
 
@MatthewHooker there is no help for users of COM. give up now.
 
3:08 AM
@MatthewHooker Well, we can't know until you ask. Keep in mind if you've got a question that isn't very minor it should go on the site proper.
 
I ask all my major questions here where they can be discussed
because my questions are interactive
 
3:29 AM
0
Q: Array of Pointers to Type

Nima GanjehlooI missed my class today thanks to my car breaking down. Would array of pointers to type be something like the the following? void *ary[10]; ary[0] = new int(); ary[1] = new float(); I'm still kinda fuzzy on what it is.

"I missed my class today thanks to my car breaking down." - best excuse ever.
 
Ha.
 
I guess it isn't as awesome as "tripping and falling into a lifeboat".
 
3:48 AM
@MatthewHooker I used to be somewhat proficient at COM development. I've since become more proficient at avoiding it...
 
@stdOrgnlDave exactly ,often chat is waist of time
 
0
Q: What is the point of olympic archery?

std''OrgnlDaveI know that this question sounds like trolling, but I promise that it is not. I'm a beginning traditional archer, and I'm wondering what the point of olympic archery is. As far as I can tell, it's about perfect form. If you miss, you adjust your scope a little and keep trying to get perfect cons...

 
@Mayankswami In the other chat rooms it might be, but getting to chat with me couldn't possibly be a waste of time! :-)
 
sehe and I had a nice discussion about security earlier
we've had adventures getting compilers to dump core
there's reasons to come here
 
@JerryCoffin might be sir
 
3:53 AM
@ScottW aim is done by the scope
anyone have any interesting C++ they did recently?
 
@stdOrgnlDave If he included that code from his own header it is.
 
I did a yes once
then I FELT BAD AND EXPOUNDED ON IT
 
4:30 AM
sigh
rep whoring
 
I see that.
I always feel the need to post how to do things like this with idiomatic C++.
 
Hi. Is it possible to compile c++ code in my program by calling some APIs from something like "libgcc" or does it exist?
 
#include <iostream>

int main()
{
  std::string string1, string2;

  std::cout << "Enter the first string: ";
  std::cin >> string1;
  std::cout << "Enter the second string: ";
  std::cin >> string2;

  std::string string3 = string1 + string2;
  std::cout << string3 << '\n';
}
 
@JamesCuster use std::getline
 
I was assuming he only wanted single words.
 
4:39 AM
consider what happens in an interactive program for single words. at the first prompt i enter "moo haa"
 
Oh right... nevermind.
I blame it on the fact that it's almost 1 am
That's a user input problem anyway ;)
 
user406009
@solotim Doing something like that is going to be a huge pain. But you can always just use system("gcc fileIwantToCompile.cpp"). Comping code inside a program seems like it should only be a last resort though.
 
4:52 AM
@JerryCoffin is SO as addicting to you as it is to me?
 
@CheersandhthAlf Looks like you're gonna want to update your answer now. :(
OP has edited in some code.
 
@JamesCuster string = string1 + string2 doesn't work. you need to do std::stringstream o; o << string1 << string2; std::string(o). there's a simplification but I forget it.
 
@stdOrgnlDave What do you mean it doesn't work?
 
wait, blah
nevermind me
 
I guess it's late for all of us :)
 
5:02 AM
damnit, no, I used std::stringstream all over the place in some code I wrote a bit ago because I forgot you can just append to std::strings.
 
i just deleted it, simplest
 
	std::stringstream foo;
	std::string foos;
	kc::log::event* evf;
	while (!_stop_requested) {
		if (do_it) {
			do_it = 0;
			foo.str("");
			foo.clear();
			foo << "Thread #" << thread_number << " checking in.";
			foos = foo.str();
			cout << foos << endl;
			evf = new kc::log::event(kc::log::event::params().auto_time().target(kc::log::enums::et_main).message(foos).type(kc::log::enums::et_informational));
			kc::logger().add_to_queue(*evf);
			delete evf;
		}
		boost::this_thread::sleep(boost::posix_time::milliseconds(sleep_duration));
ergh
lots of <<'s like that when I could've just used +
(yes I know there's other problems with this code)
 
You used stringstream there because thread_number is an integer I assume.
 
oh.
yes! that's the reason!
duh.
 
But in C++11, you wouldn't need to do that.
 
5:07 AM
thanks for making me feel less dumb
 
In C++11 you can just use itoa.
 
yes well this is cross-platform VC10 & older GCC that doesn't do C++11 strings
wait, can't you use itoa in C++03?
 
itoa will return a string I think... let me check
Wait... I'm thinking of something else I think
 
yes, it'll return a pointer to the buffer you passed, so it'll work fine
you just need the buffer
(this is stupid threading pool simplified inheritence RAII modeled thread test class, is why the code is so pointless)
 
Well I can't keep my eyes open anymore... so I'll have to check later
 
5:09 AM
either way, stringstream does have its conveniences, like all that implicit conversion
 
you know what really pissed me off?
 
@GManNickG That's what I was thinking of
 
microsoft reserved the 'event' keyword
they reserved event
so log::event was a pain to write
 
5:11 AM
lol.
 
log::event is so intuitive, why are they dicks? because they're microsoft
in the end, by the way, I ended up getting rid of those enums, and just sticking to static const int's right in the classes. thank god for new C++11 strong enum typing
bjarne + bjork would be great
@GManNickG how high is the rep cap?
 
@stdOrgnlDave What? Per day it's 200 I think.
 
user406009
Sometimes it seems like questions on this site make less sense the deeper I look into them.
 
5:27 AM
lol, although I rarely hit the repcap... whenever I do, I lose a LOT of rep.
 
5:38 AM
wait, you lose rep for hitting the cap?
 
I think he means lost in the sense that he's never going to get the extra rep.
 
ahhh
like if you hit the repcap it's because you get 50 up votes on one question
I wish there was a way to force people to hit the check mark
 
@stdOrgnlDave I've had quite a few days where I've shot 50 votes over the repcap...
 
That prehistoric weapon. I wonder how many jabs it takes to kill an animal or enemy with that.
 
Hmm:
November 30 - 60 votes
December 18 - 158 votes
December 19 - 154 votes
December 20 - 49 votes
January 19 - 53 votes
February 16 - 129 votes
February 17 - 243 votes
February 18 - 46 votes
March 11 - 58 votes
April 30 - 86 votes
So yeah... I hate the repcap.
 
5:46 AM
@StackedCrooked where does it say what kind of weapon was used? too tired to read
 
@stdOrgnlDave There's something that looks like a little axe on the picture.
> Otzi, whose nickname derives from the German word for the area where he was found, had brown hair and type-O blood and was believed to be 45 when he was felled by an arrow while climbing the high mountains some 5,300 years ago.
He reached age 45. Not bad.
 
@stdOrgnlDave I agree to some extent. Especially when missing that checkmark denies someone both the Enlightened and Guru badges. Green also look better on the profile.
Not having an accepted answer will disqualify a question from StackMonthly.
 
I'm rep whoring up to 800 before I hit the sack
@StackedCrooked archery at 5300 years ago in germany would be fairly primitive. basically it depends on how accurate the arrow was and if the archer even knew that aiming for the heart is better than the shoulder. it's the same as a gun: shoot someone in the shoulder and it takes a while for them to die.
I'm really, really tired
can someone up-vote this for me stackoverflow.com/questions/10425070/…
there's a few others that are possible
I just want to go to bed and I need one more damn upvote
 
6:06 AM
I'll upvote it after you hit 800. :D
 
@Ethan
 
how about this one
0
A: Creating a timed game in c++

std''OrgnlDave#include <ctime> // ctime is still quite useful clock_t start = clock(); // gets number of clock ticks since program start clock_t end = 5 * CLOCKS_PER_SEC; // this is 5 seconds * number of ticks per second // later, in game loop if (clock() - start) > end { // cl...

 
@EthanSteinberg The problem is that the source code to be compiled by gcc is sensitive data, I can't just put them out there. Any suggestion? (except obfuscation)
 
lol voting rings...
I think the only time I've asked someone to upvote something to my benefit was to bump an accepted answer to 11 so I could get a Populist badge.
@ScottW You still haven't gotten the badge yet?
 
YAY I used the power of knowledge of 2's complement to get over 800
and also esoteric microprocessor history
 
6:21 AM
And here's your promised post-800 upvote. :)
 
why thank you mysticial
it was extra incentive
 
I love tormenting people. :P
Been watching way too much bloody and disturbing anime...
 
@Mysticial you can take out "bloody and disturbing" and that sentence is still valid
this is coming from an anime veteran who thinks FLCL is one of the best things ever made
and also knows about the different levels of super saiyan
and wishes outlaw star got more exposure cuz outlaw star > trigun
anyhow, goodnight
 
lol, night
 
now I need to re-watch FLCL
sigh
 
7:32 AM
morning all
 
7:48 AM
mawning
 
By any chance, would you know much about using ClearCase?
 
oh well
 
I'll just carry on not working for a bit
 
7:50 AM
work?
 
yeah
 
some one really clever thought that paying a load of money to use a really shitty source control system was a great idea
 
hahah
 
seriously, taking back ups and just using a shared folder for common work would be a better source control system then ClearCase
 
8:05 AM
stupid outlook. I've not replied to that email, I am writing the response.
 
trying to work out what these values mean that get passed into a function
`createMO(arg0, arg1, arg2, arg3)`
<face palm>
 
8:44 AM
Obviously, "MO" means matrix object and the arguments are the values in the matrix.
 
your half right :P
it's a 'Managed Object'
 
Ah. What's a managed object? An object in a data base? Somewhat like ActiveRecord?
 
and my god you will be amazed how many hoops you have to jump through to work with those fuckers, even after years of developing code to work with them
 
Something*
 
erm... it's some sort of freaky way of storing settings. which nest in a convoluted way
like more or less every thing done here. Some one once thought it was a good idea, and no one has felt the need to point out how stupid it all is
need to write code... erm Java is a programming language
need a source control... erm clear case can do that
need to be able to write documents... erm we could each have a stamp stuck to our for heads, and work together to stamp out letters
 
8:54 AM
@thecoshman: You seem to complain a lot about your working place. I used to do the same and decided to leave 3 months ago. Isn't that an option for you too ?
 
@ereOn I do want to leave, but I also need to get at least a year or two to build my work XP points so I can get a new job
unless you are offering me a job :D
 
@thecoshman: I did the same.
Unless you want to work in France, I highly doubt you would be interested ;)
Even I don't want to, but have no choice for now :p
 
¬_¬ you might be able to tempt me... but I doubt I could batter the pay to make it worth it
barter?
haggle?
 
@thecoshman @sbi might be interested. He has a garden.
 
yeah, Haggle will do :D
 
sbi
8:57 AM
@classdaknok_t What?
 
@sbi @thecoshman is looking for a job. :P
 
@classdaknok_t I don't think I garden remotely
also, people here have seen my programming
 
@thecoshman: In my previous company, we had all sort of crappy code. While I didn't learned much on a technical way, I however learned a lot about people and how to manipulate them for their own good.
 
sbi
@classdaknok_t I inexplicably fail to see what my garden has to do with that.
 

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