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18:00
yo dawg...
I heard you like programming languages...
1 hour, TeXLive installation at ~50%
Go Turbo.
So we made a programming language so you can write a programming language in a programming language that lets you modify the programming language in the programming language
I opened a new tab to check something and I forgot what it was.
18:01
@CatPlusPlus I do this at least 10 times a day.
@CatPlusPlus reddit
No.
Oh, hey, Go 1.
@CatPlusPlus: TVTropes
Windows support you say.
Oh my, an installer.
@CatPlusPlus That's what I was talking about with the rune thing.
I forgot to check RSS.
anyone here know chinese
@Insilico Gosh, what?
@CatPlusPlus Oh my god. And I'm annoyed that stuff takes forever on my box. (About 10 minutes; Linux)
When I was in high school, I remember asking my Portuguese teacher about the correct way to write certain "profanities". She happily satisfied my curiosity without expelling me.
Fucking retarded USA.
Ell
Ell
18:07
haha my mum is a spanish teacher
@RMartinhoFernandes: I live in the US and I wholeheartedly agree with you!
Although to be fair nobody in my high school really cared for profanities
As long as you didn't do it during a presentation or something
It wasn't even like "Fuck you <principal of school>" or anything like that
It was making an obvservation about the usage of the word
Ell
Ell
my highschool is catholic >.< Its incredibly annoying
we aren't allowed meat on fridays :O and we dont get sex ed, and girls arent allowed to be slutty, etc. etc.
yet our headmistress is divorced herself, stupid hypocrite. Hmmph!
@Ell: I suspect that every single one of your classmates didn't follow the rule to the letter. :-)
This Be The Verse........

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
 They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
 And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
 By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
 And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
 It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
 And don't have any kids yourself.
Philip Larkin 1922--1985, poem dated around '71
Ell
Ell
@Insilico no they don't :L only 3 more years and I will be free from that :D
18:11
These are 14-18 year olds we're talking about here after all
Ell
Ell
its so rediculous - my older brother (18) was threatened with expulsion because he was holding his girlfriends hand outside of school grounds before school time
@Ell: Why are you going to that school, again?
Arab Emirates?
@StackedCrooked A catholic school in the Arab Emirates?
Ell
Ell
@Insilico it supposedly is a good school but in reality it thrives on mediocrity. I don't have a choice in the matter - my mother is head of languages, although she despises the headmistress too
18:13
@Ell I can see how that would be a problem, unless the girlfriend was still properly attached to the hand
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked Uk :O
Ell
Ell
@sehe are you suggesting he was holding a severed hand :L
What I would really like to see is schools that taught people how to learn shit on their own
18:14
@Ell duh... shouldn't spell out lateral jokes, really :)
@Ell Severed or chewed off, doesn't really matter.
Here people would just laugh at school doing that.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus holding hands? why?
No, school making silly threats.
18:14
There needs to be a LMGTFYARTFM class or something
Ell
Ell
oh and also she has threatened expulsion/suspension for going to the local park. Yes.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus the thing is though - they aren't emtpy threats - she follows them through. Ugh its not fair :'(
A "let me Google that for you and read the fucking manual" class.
@Ell: For going to the park?
@Ell what country's this in?
evenin' folks
18:15
@Ell Is "The Local Park" some strip joint nearby or something?
Are you sure this isn't some kind of a sick prank that the school is in on?
@Mat That reads like: #define ever zoidberg
@je4d Hi there.
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes no - literally the park outside school
@je4d uk
If your mom hates the headmistress so much then why doesn't she get you to a different HS?
@Ell ouch.. makes me ashamed to be a citizen
Ell
Ell
@je4d yeah :/
@Ell state or private school?
Ell
Ell
@je4d public... so state :L
@Ell: Really?
18:17
@Ell So complain to the local government rep
this shit’s illegal
@Ell public != state here :)
Here in the U.S. Catholic schools cannot be public schools
Ell
Ell
@Insilico because it is the best school education wise - as in it gets highest grades
@Ell: n/o, but we're getting to see 1 side of the story here, you could be largely exaggerating or leaving out facts that rationalize answers (as people oft do when they have some problem with parents/school/whatever).
Ell
Ell
@je4d okay I might be confused :L public as in, not private?
18:17
Tip: every school sucks.
Ell
Ell
@KillianDS probably right :L
@Ell: Psh. What I care more is that you know how to learn shit
@Ell In the uk school system, public == private
@je4d Is that a joke?
18:18
except for a minor distinction where "public" is used to refer to the older, posher ones like eton
@je4d Everyone is your friend.
@RMartinhoFernandes no, i'm serious
Ell
Ell
@je4d huuuh? are you sure? o.O Thats not what I learn't? To me that is the old system
If you get into college or a university you're pretty much expected to learn stuff on your own or find help yourself
@je4d Then you’re wrong
Ell
Ell
18:18
@je4d Yeah I'm pretty sure you're wrong? I will google :L
The terminology was based on the first schools being available to anyone who could pay, ergo "public"
The term public school is commonly used in the United Kingdom to refer to a select group of about 10% of the independent schools in the country, which are in general older, more expensive, more exclusive and members of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference. Such schools were originally termed "public" in the sense that they were open to anyone who could pass entrance examinations and afford the fees, without religious or other restrictions. Until the late medieval period most schools were controlled by the church and had specific entrance criteria; others were restricted to the...
@je4d: Wow, that's news to me
Ell
Ell
@je4d wow... I never knew that. Now I am ashamed of myself :L
hence why I asked, "private or state" :P
Ell
Ell
18:20
Okay - state then :L
So, what are "public" schools called in the UK?
Super-public?
@RMartinhoFernandes I never really know what to call them!
"non-private" schools?
@Insilico Or non-public?
Ell
Ell
state/private/special schools.
18:21
we used to have the term "grammar schools" and "comprehensive schools"
which were a 2-tier system for govt-run education
@RMartinhoFernandes: I live in the U.S. The U.K. terminology is confusing as hell
Here in the U.S. things like catholic H.S. are always private
Ell
Ell
@je4d we dont have grammar schools anymore? I thought?
By the way, even the Guardian refers to these “public” schools as private schools though
U.S. public schools can't have any religious affiliation
@je4d What is a grammar school? A school where they teach you grammar?
18:22
(that's not to say that religious people can't go there, of course)
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes where students are split into streams
@Ell I'm not sure actually... I thought they got rid of them and we only had comprehensives and the new "academy" schools
@Insilico lol, that would be silly.
@RMartinhoFernandes: I interpreted grammar school as "elementary school"
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes aka - classes aren't mixed ability
18:22
@RMartinhoFernandes govt-run schools for the clever kids
@Ell Woah, calm down. You're confusing me with all these terms.
Ell
Ell
@je4d we had the "labour academy" (a school in need of funding because they are under achieving) and the "tory academy" (a school that is overachieving so recieves funding). My school is a "tory academy". That is what I think?
@KillianDS in the US that's a common rule. Students cannot leave the school grounds during school hours.
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes uk education system history is confusing, what with labour and conservative parties wanting opposite things :L
Okay why the hell is it so confusing in the U.K.?
In the U.S. you had elementary schools, middle schools, high schools and universities and colleges
K-20
18:24
@Ell I have no idea if you're right or wrong.. I went through a private school, and that was 12 years ago
Ell
Ell
@je4d I will look it up :L
@Insilico whats an elementary school/middle school?
@Ell: In the U.S. students go through "grades"
Each grade is a year long
elementary school is grades 1 to 5
middle school is grades 6 to 8
high school is grades 9 to 12
@MooingDuck At my high school it was the same. And honestly, in that case I find it normal that you punish offenders (also happened there). If it's a rule, it's a rule, you don't have to complain you get punished when breaking it.
Ell
Ell
@Insilico ahh - they are called years here :L - and what age is grade 1?
@Insilico the actual number of grades in each "school" varies accross the US actually
18:26
@MooingDuck: Yeah, but that's the most common from my experience
@Ell age 6 normally
Ell
Ell
here we have "nursery school", "primary school", "high school", "sixth form", "university" :L
I think nursery school == elementary school
Before age 6 you can go to kindergarten
@Insilico From your experience? How often did you go through the school system, then?
@Insilico mine was k-6, 7-8, 9-12. Several places are dropping middle schools for k-7, 8-12.
18:27
I'd say s/high school/secondary school/ there.. i always considered high school a US term
@KonradRudolph: Once. But I've visited lots of different schools (I played a sport in high school), and most of them did it the way I've described it.
Ell
Ell
@Insilico I think kindergarten == nursery
and elementary == primary by my calculations
Ell
Ell
@je4d yea good point, highschool is an american term for secondary
18:28
@Ell US Kindergarden is usually age 5, before that is preschool. Kindergarden is "year 0"
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck whhatt? preschool and kindergarten?
right okay now I am totally confused :L
@Ell thats how it was where I grew up
@Ell: Yeah. Preschool isn't actually required, AFAIK
I did go to preschool though
Most states start compulsory education at 1st grade, but they don't really tell parents that. Most parents send their children to kindergarten at age 5.
You are all nuts.
18:29
@Ell no, preschool is just babysitting before they can get in school.
@Ell It's more of a daycare thing to get kids started with larger groups
"K-20" usually refers to kindergarten to university education, collectively
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck ohh okay, that is "nursery" here
@CollinHockey and so kids learn things even if they have parents who don't teach
@Ell we used both terms
@Robᵩ Psh, once they're ready for kindergarden I can't imagine a parent that wouldn't want to get their kid out of the house for a while each day
18:31
@CollinHockey: But when it comes time for that to actually happen (think college), they feel almost the opposite
An alternative to the pair "middle school / high school" is "junior high / senior high" at roughly the same grade levels. Middle schools are structured more like elementary schools; junior high is structured more like high school.
We could avoid all of these terminology problems by just heeding the advice of the poem @sehe pasted
I just call it K-12 to refer to the education before the university/college
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
You are all nuts.
@Insilico Exactly. My mom was ok with college, I was only half an hour away, but now that I've moved out of state for work, she told me I'm not allowed to have any more big life events for a few years :-P
18:32
I mean, there's C++, and then there's this mess of X schools you guys have.
Ell
Ell
haha
:3099816 still lurking eh? and fixed that
@RMartinhoFernandes: Well it is Lounge<C++>
^ Windows API: CommandLineToArgvW parsing is incorrect
He he
Contrary to popular belief, the C++ part of Lounge<C++> is rarely the case.
18:32
@je4d Still "larkin". You missed an opportunity for a neat pun.
Ell
Ell
I think we should make a new general chat room and everyone jsut migrate there, I think that would please the c++ people?
@Ell: We do have a general chat room
@RMartinhoFernandes Can't believe I didn't see that :-(
And it's nowhere near as interesting or popular as Lounge<C++> for some reason
Ell
Ell
@Insilico oh :L Nobody will follow me there will they?
whoa, my school's CompSci server is down! O.o (It was basically a playground/server for CS students, as long as we don't go nuts)
Ell
Ell
If I go now?...
@Ell We just talk about shit here.
Ell
Ell
Meh. Bye folks, I'm going to the general chat room :L
18:34
As long as no one gets pissed off, it's all fine.
Bye bye
@CheersandhthAlf: As a workaround, you can use __argv and __argc.
@MooingDuck And what happened? Someone went nuts?
(They are of course specific to Microsoft's C runtime libraries)
(I haven't ran across problems using those)
@MooingDuck: The students have admin access?
@RMartinhoFernandes no idea, I'm not a student anymore so I don't get notification emails.
@Insilico not really. the wide char extension is not in general supported by MingW g++, only (to some degree) by the "64" distribution. whatever its name was.
18:36
> They are of course specific to Microsoft's C runtime libraries
@Insilico each student has a folder for putting PHP files, and an account on the local SQL server, with limitations on the tables. So, no admin access.
@MooingDuck Glad you have a comp-sci server, You have no idea how many of my helpdesk calls were asking the guys down there to kill some physics student's 20 matlab instances all suck in infinite loops
> the Windows API is probably the biggest bug nest that you have
@RMartinhoFernandes :(){:|:&};: was a favourite when I was at uni
lol, can't deny that really :P
18:37
@CheersandhthAlf: I think you can just hack together a command line parser
That should be well within your abilities
assuming you really, really need the command line functionality
@TonyTheLion At least it's relatively stable. :-)
We don't have servers for anything :(
(Well, master's students do)
@MooingDuck: And they still manage to hose the server with their PHP scripts?
We used to have a student-run society that ran a few hosts to hold societies' websites, and give shell accounts to anyone who wanted them
18:39
does anyone use TeX or LaTeX as a replacement to a word processor?
@CollinHockey The CS dept had a private cluster server and a LAMP server we could toy with slightly. (Though the cluster was used by the bio department when we weren't using it)
Ell
Ell
We dont have servers - oh but we did just get a new batch of windows xp programmes
@Insilico PHP is probably buggy as heck.
The uni were fine with it because they didn't have to pay anyone to do the sysadmin work
@TonyTheLion I do, but I rarely need a word processor.
18:39
@TonyTheLion: I do for anything with equations in it
@Insilico I dunno. Maybe they decided it wasn't worth hosting anymore :(
For really quick relatively small documents involving no equations
(e.g. a letter to grandma, professor or something)
I was unable to attach the source code file, so I just pasted it as a comment. Bugs everywhere!
@MooingDuck Or they just forgot to turn it back on after sudo shutdown
I use a word processor
18:40
@RMartinhoFernandes PHP is the very definition of the word bug
But for super technical docs I use LaTeX
@Insilico I find it silly to send printed letters.
Why not just send an e-mail?
@RMartinhoFernandes: These are nice letters we're talking about. :-)
@RMartinhoFernandes not all grandma's can read email or even use a computer
@CollinHockey student's shouldn't have had those rights on that server, but it's possible someone found a hole.
18:41
@Insilico I don't get it. What does nice mean here?
Complete with stationery and heavy paper and stuff
@MooingDuck I was thinking for a kernel upgrade or something
Do you write letters to the Queen of England or something?
@CollinHockey very possible of the profs who ran the servers.
@TonyTheLion: I live in the U.S., so no
But some people expect stuff in writing
18:42
@TonyTheLion I do. Haven’t used a word processor in years. Very liberating
So I give them stuff in writing
> A Font point equals 1/72 of an inch
I didn't know
I'm sure as hell not going to send chicken-scratch for printed letters
If you want something in writing from me, you should be expecting a damn handwritten letter.
Cuz I ain't going to the typography to print a damn letter to you.
You know what writing is, don't you?
Hint: It doesn't involve printers
18:43
@KonradRudolph this is thus a doable cause, abandoning all word processors for LaTeX
@RMartinhoFernandes: Oh, from me you really don't want to see the handwriting
@TonyTheLion Yes … no real problems until now.
@RMartinhoFernandes printers aren't that expensive, you know
@TonyTheLion Let me just install my 5GB worth of LaTeX compilers here
@KonradRudolph good to know
18:44
@TonyTheLion They are if you print one page every three years.
You know printers (the ones you use at home) are more than capable of printing on nice paper
Less than 10 cents every three years vs 50€?
@CollinHockey oh, shit, is that the size of these things?
@RMartinhoFernandes as a bot, don't you have a printer built into you?
@TonyTheLion Slightly exaggerated. But not overly
@TonyTheLion I dunno, the windows one I had was gigantic
18:44
I mean, that's a feature for yourself's next version :)
@TonyTheLion I have, it's called my right hand.
@TonyTheLion MiKTeX or something
If you want text on paper by me, it's handwritten.
Ell
Ell
@CollinHockey yeah miktex
@RMartinhoFernandes print at work/library/kinkos
18:45
Dec 28 '11 at 22:40, by sehe
Hehe. Removed latex* packages and online resized my root partition. Now 20Gb free. Now, where is that 3d porn again?
The compiler itself is sure as hell not 5 GB
But all the packages
^^ @TonyTheLion
sure add up.
@MooingDuck I don't work.
@RMartinhoFernandes orly? Didn't know that
18:45
@sehe oh yea, my pron
@sehe: 20 GB is nothing by today standards
Go get a 1 TB drive for your 3D porn
doesn't matter, I'll put it on my server in Russia, that's where all pron lives anyways :P
Mat
Mat
@Insilico, then why does copying take so long?
@MooingDuck I'm currently finishing university, but I had a job for the past year or so.
@Insilico It is if your application files are on an SSD
18:46
@Insilico 3D pron sounds exciting :P
Ell
Ell
@Insilico I have a 1TB drive + 128gb ssd
@Mat: Because eSATA is not mainstream enough?
Ell
Ell
Wooaah has anyone used kinect for that? not that I watch porn. I find it degrading and depressing.
@Insilico not interested.
> not that I watch porn
the lie of the century
18:47
@Ell Used Kinect for what?
Don't tell me.
looking at porn
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes 3d porn :D
Fap fap fap
@Insilico I know. Just today I found out I'm not using 20Gb of my SSD - due to a part of my LVs not being striped. Oh well, just means I can throw Mint on Btrfs without reshuffling :)
@TonyTheLion I read an article about some dudes in canada trying to do a study on what effect watching pron has on guys.. they couldn't find a control group
18:48
@sehe why, isn't 1tb enough?
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion seriously not a lie - doesn't it depress you that you are so far from human touch you have to watch other humans being touched?
@Ell: No.
Ell
Ell
@Insilico meh. each to their own I suppose :L
18:48
Humans just like seeing other humans touching each other
Humans suck anyway. Pun intended.
I'm not going into a discussion as to what the good and bads are of watching porn
Ell
Ell
@Insilico wouldn't you much rather be touched by another human yourself?
Only in Lounge<C++> do we go from talking about schools to porn in a matter of minutes.
6
you're already here, might as well come along for the ride
18:49
everyone to his own, on this matter
@Ell: Yes.
Ell
Ell
@Insilico specifically elementary schools
That doesn't automatically make porn a bad thing.
@je4d I have more than that in my fileserver. I have 3d stuff, and perhaps some ancient porn in some backup. Nice for historians
Ell
Ell
@Insilico Im not saying porn is bad - its perfectly fine - just saying that I don't watch it and thats not a lie :L
18:50
@sehe historic porn, woah
I wonder if the Egyptians or Romans had porn?
@TonyTheLion I say, Beatrice, you sure are showing some ankle there!
@Ell: Me neither. But it gets to a point were you've seen everything on the Internet and nothing surprises you anymore :-P
@TonyTheLion They had orgies.
lol
@RMartinhoFernandes fair enough
@TonyTheLion You /wonder/? Ever went to Pompeii?
Ell
Ell
18:51
@Insilico hahaha
@sehe covered in volcanic ashes
Erotic art in Pompeii and Herculaneum was discovered in the ancient cities around the bay of Naples (particularly of Pompeii and Herculaneum) after extensive excavations began in the 18th century. The city was found to be full of erotic art and frescoes, symbols, and inscriptions regarded by its excavators as pornographic. Even many recovered household items had a sexual theme. The ubiquity of such imagery and items indicates that the sexual mores of the ancient Roman culture of the time were much more liberal than most present-day cultures, although much of what might seem to us to be ero...
that's not porn, that's erotic art
@TonyTheLion: And thus lies the crux of the problem with porn vs. erotic art
@TonyTheLion Here, take this monocle and tophat
18:52
@TonyTheLion Pff. Same thing. To them, at least
@TonyTheLion The line is quite blurry between the two.
blurry or not, a line is a line
and it has to be drawn
and I've just drawn the goddamn line
@TonyTheLion: That's the problem. Everyone draws it at different places
@TonyTheLion Looks like porn to me.
@TonyTheLion Also historians agree that there was more going on than just murals. I doubt they had it on DVDs but who's to blame? They were waiting for the DMCA I guess
@sehe: They had live performances.
@Insilico even better
I want live performances
lol
I think it's called "sex".
@RMartinhoFernandes ♩ "DMCA" (♫na na-na na-na na-na) "DMCA"! ♬
Ell
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel what is this sex you speak of?
18:54
@EtiennedeMartel not if I'm a spectator, then it's called entertainment
@Insilico exactly.
Around here, technically, prostitution is illegal. But if you film it and sell it for money, then it's porn, and it's legal.
@EtiennedeMartel that's funny
Mat
Mat
@EtiennedeMartel, So if you don't sell it then it's not porn?
18:55
> Transcranial direct current stimulation works, and you can try it at home.
anyone here know chinese?
@Ell Ooooh, drouds.
@JohnSmith: I don't.
^ There are a lot of things you can try fry at home.
brain porn
18:56
@TonyTheLion A bit redundant, if you ask me.
I'm not gonna say what I was thinking
Don't ask him!
Pleeeaaase.
@JohnSmith I have a few of those "Learn Chinese" fortune cookie fortunes laying around, does that count?
Tony The Lion was clearly thinking about Brainfuck.
Mat
Mat
I'm not going to think what I'm saying.
18:57
@EtiennedeMartel I think the distinguisment is between paying to participate, and paying to observe.
@Insilico that wouldn't be disturbing enough for me to think about :P
Yeah, I'm starting to think that the reason prostitution isn't legal in Canada is that there's not enough lobbying in its favor. Same thing for pot.
That kcharselect tool worked quite niftely there.
Ell
Ell
its legal in nevada, is it not?
yea, I bet you politicians and pron companies do lots of lobbying, "You'll get a free lifetime membership if you pass this law"

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