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11:00 AM
Wait, have to check this. Might be confusing this and ECMA Script 6
 
Haha, use *_ instead of just * and it works. It’s limited to a single gap though.
 
Hmmm, yeah :-)
 
I start a server on socket using self.sock.bind(('0.0.0.0',0)). How can I make other machines connect to that port?
I connect to public IP address and that port, I get : error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it
 
You cannot. Port 0 means OS is free to choose any free port.
 
I know the port at the other end.
 
11:06 AM
@AbhishekBhatia the other end is the client right?
 
@khajvah
yeah
'0.0.0.0' means allow all connections, am I missing something?
 
yes, as thefortheye said, you need to know your server's port
 
The code works if the client is at the same machine, and connects to 127.0.0.1. So the server is allowing connection from same machine/ip.
 
@AbhishekBhatia Your machine can have multiple network interfaces and each of them will be assigned an IP address. If you specify '127.0.0.1', for example, it will accept connections made to 127.0.0.1. But if you want to accept connections on all the interfaces, you would say '0.0.0.0'
 
if you have to use port 0, your server can broadcast its ip:port through UDP
 
11:11 AM
Yeah, but it giving me No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it. Despite the server socket I specified '0.0.0.0'. On the client side I connected to the server's public address.
 
There can be multiple applications listening on various ports on the server machine. You should specify explicitly the port your server is listening for connection requests.
 
@thefourtheye I explicitly specify the port!
 
cabbage
 
@AbhishekBhatia how do you know the port ?
 
@Bhargav cbg
 
11:15 AM
Cbg nuppy :P (Learned that word from the other dog there --->)
 
nuppy forgot a password :D
 
@thefourtheye I remembered it in the end pups :)
 
and that proves that puppies never forget anything :-)
 
@thefourtheye oh yeah... I'd forgotten we remember everything :)
 
11:17 AM
@khajvah There is backend remote server which receives the port info. and public ip addr of server machine. The client also pings backend remote server and gets the port and public addr of server machine
 
@AbhishekBhatia nice, then I can't help you as it should work, in theory.
 
hmm...weird it seems to a networking thing?
 
well you seem to get the correct ip address and the port, so it should be trivial to connect. From the info you gave, it should work
of course many things can go wrong in between
 
11:26 AM
hahaha
 
If you could show the code, we would be able to help you better.
 
In fact, in networking so many things can go wrong that I am surprised that we are able to chat like this without interruptions.
 
For all we know, TCP is just magic
 
yeah
 
If we observe carefully, we can hear network engineers chanting to get TCP working
 
11:29 AM
@PM2Ring ...... I am going to post a Java documentation link to you: docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/… (warning )
 
and that goes like this "FIN" "ACK" "FIN" "ACK"...
 
oh nooooo, Java
@thefourtheye or this
 
Awww, and we hear that over TCP :D
 
@AnttiHaapala Ah. You just said "set" earlier, you didn't say "set view".
 
in Python 3 dict.keys() is not a set
 
11:34 AM
@AbhishekBhatia Had you thought about using the portmap service, or does the server always run on a fixed port?
 
indeed.
 
"set-like" object
 
@khajvah @thefourtheye I posted question with the code.
 
@AnttiHaapala No, it's a list-like view object.
 
well it is also a setlike object and also not set
@PM2Ring negative, it is setlike view object
but it does not implement all the set methods
it supports subset, superset etc with <= and >=
@PM2Ring also: apt-get install python3
 
11:37 AM
But, we can always get a set object out of it. Why do we need them to be sets?
 
@AnttiHaapala Fair enough.
 
@holdenweb Not, on a fixed port. But know the port through some backend requests. Sry, I haven't done an networking. Never heard of portmap. Any relevant links.
 
It's part of the ONC remote procedure call feature - querieslinux.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/… will give you a heads-up, but if you are already communicating the port number you don't really need it. I think the confusion was because you appear to be allocating an ephemeral port for the server, so people assumed you had no way to connect to it.
If you are serving on ('0.0.0.0', portnum) then clients will connect with (any_valid_ip_address, portnum)
So you should be able to connect (firewalls permitting) to 127.0.0.1 from processes on the same host, and to external IP addresses from any host
 
It connect from process on the same host but not from external IP addresses from any host
 
Sounds like a firewall issue, then
Have you tried connecting with netcat (often installed as nc)?
 
11:46 AM
@AbhishekBhatia in your code you have public_ip_addr='127.0.0.1'
Are sure you are giving correct public ip address of the remote server?
 
@khajvah sry, that was just for debugging.
 
@AbhishekBhatia You originally said "I start a server on socket using self.sock.bind(('0.0.0.0',0))"
 
@holdenweb Yeah I do
forget that line, I checking if clients on machines can connect.
 
@AbhishekBhatia I would also suggest you to explain the stuff you explained here (how you get the ip:port of the server) in your question, as it's unclear right now what you are doing.
 
So check on the server machine using netstat -n --protocol=inet that you have TCP listeners on all IP addresses
If you see the process listening on the external IPs then you will know you are being firewalled, I'd have thought
 
11:53 AM
@khajvah For some reason I can't edit the question. I shows a question with the same title exists!
 
hmm
@AbhishekBhatia you're changing the title?
 
@AnttiHaapala No, I haven't faced this before.
 
@AbhishekBhatia afaik that should only occur if you're changing the title
@AbhishekBhatia ok this is my theory: stackoverflow.com/questions/7037428/…
your title differs by a dot. When you're saving it, it does not consider the dot at end
 
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, that was issue!
 
12:01 PM
@holdenweb thx for the suggestion. But $ netstat -n --protocol=inet -a gives no connections.
 
Anything in LISTENING state is what you are looking for - if you can't connect to it, clearly there won't be any connections! I'm trying to help you find out if the machine is listening. If it is, then you are being firewalled.
 
@AbhishekBhatia answered
 
no, "On service side I get the public ip address and port and transmit to the client through a remote server."
I know the port at the client
 
Do you mean "the client program knows the port to connect to"? If so, look for that port number as LISTENING in the netstat output on the server
 
yes, netstat -lp
@AbhishekBhatia also: perhaps you know the port, but how about you're behind the NAT now?
 
12:08 PM
--protocol=inetwill avoid you having to read the UNIX socket details (of which there may be many)
-lp is much better than my suggestion, @AnttiHaapala - thanks!
 
netstat -lpn|grep 12345
 
When I netstat it doesn't show that port on which started server.
Note: I am on windows and using git bash.
 
@AbhishekBhatia suggesting that you aren't listening on all IP addresses. Do you see the server listening on 127.0.0.1, even? Maybe the process isn't running, or maybe it dies?
Ah, sorry, Windows netstat I'm not familiar with
 
That appears to show that you have no listeners at all, implying your server process isn't running. Can you still connect on 127.0.0.1?
 
12:15 PM
yeah
 
In which case I can only conclude, assuming you ran netstat on the server machine, that netstat is lying :-(
If you can connect to a port that netstat doesn't report I am unsure where to go from there.
 
@AbhishekBhatia you need the -a option to include listening ports, it appears from reading the docs you posted on pastebin
 
True under cover:
 
@holdenweb hmm it is not true, it only shows active connections there
 
12:23 PM
What can I tell you. The netstat help says (you pasted) "-a Displays all connections and listening ports."
If it isn't showing you a listening port and you can nevertheless connect to a port I really wouldn't know where to go
 
@holdenweb It shows with netstat -a.
TCP 0.0.0.0:29099 abhishek:0 LISTENING
 
@poke Found the password in the end in case you didn't notice it in the transcript - so don't worry about digging up the code when you get home :)
 
@JonClements I probably would have forgot anyway, so you would have to remind me again
@AnttiHaapala I don’t think iterators are defined by having a length..?
 
@poke you're correct. But that is the sized/iterable/container interface, not *iterator
 
not sure what you mean by that. len(iter(something)) is probably not going to work for any something
 
12:37 PM
@poke holdenweb stated that dict_keys is an iterator, not a set-like object
 
DSM
There's an easier way to show it's not an iterator:
>>> next({1:2}.keys())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<ipython-input-40-dacb3aec8dd2>", line 1, in <module>
    next({1:2}.keys())
TypeError: 'dict_keys' object is not an iterator
 
@AnttiHaapala which is exactly why I wrote, almost two hours ago, "
Sure - I was wrong, it's an iterable, but not an iterator (no __next__())" - do we have an issue here? I get the feeling proving me wrong is important to you. I hope I'm wrong about that
 
@holdenweb @AnttiHaapala Disabled firewall, still doesn't work.
 
@AnttiHaapala I’m just criticizing your “proof” because len() cannot be used for that?
 
@holdenweb sure you're wrong about that, I only read highlighted messages from backlogs :D
 
DSM
12:38 PM
Morning don't-want-to-get-up-and-go-to-work cabbage for all.
 
@DSM tell them the ninja puppy from room 6 says you don't have to? :p
that'll probably give you the day of because they think you'd lost sense of reality :)
 
DSM
I really only need to go in for one meeting this afternoon. And what are they going to do, fire me? ;-)
 
cabbage DSM
 
morning everyone
 
@holdenweb I see what you did there. :)
 
12:44 PM
@AnttiHaapala good show
 
@corvid morning
 
@PM2Ring Was hoping somebody might
 
class Entity {
  async constructor { /** ... */ }
}
gods have mercy
 
@corvid that doesn't look like Python :D
 
@DSM That next test makes sense to me. I have no idea what Antti's len test was supposed to prove.
 
12:48 PM
C#?
 
well, iterators never have had size
 
nah, es6 javascript which is actually almost a real language
 
@AnttiHaapala Oh, ok. FWIW, it's sometimes hard to understand you clearly, due to the strange way you tend to use English.
 
*iterators have never been Sized
 
-5 for 13k user :P.
 
12:56 PM
well, a Finn, so it is understandable :D
 
Hrmph. Think it's overkill to use an OpenGL graphics library for a basic desktop application?
 
@The6thSense the thing is: look at the title of that question
 
@corvid Not if it will be fun
 
It looks like this OP has stumbled across a Python 2 bug: stackoverflow.com/questions/36084379/…
 
How to trim white spaces from the end of a string in Python [duplicate] vs
How do I remove whitespace from the end of a string in Python?
that should show up in the "possible duplicates"
@PM2Ring no
@PM2Ring native structures :(
 
12:57 PM
If he had searched his question title he would have got the answered :P. Yeah it would have showed up there.
 
@The6thSense I mean when you post a question it looks for similar questions based on the title, I am almost certain that question would have shown up there.
 
Yeah when typing the title itself SO is showing it.
 
@AnttiHaapala Ah, ok.
 
answered
 
Last-day-of-work-before-vacation-cabbage for all!
 
1:01 PM
@AnttiHaapala So specifying one of = < > at the start of the format string should fix it?
 
@PM2Ring not = obviously
= would use standard padding and sizes, but native endianess; there is not much performance difference in between using that and using explicit little-endian
 
@timgeb I was surprised also when I could not find a duplicate in 2 minutes. Therefore I decided to write short Q & A with proper variance in keywords so it could possibly be found faster and easier in the future by whoever needs it. — Akseli Palén 1 min ago
A good cause!!!
 
Sure, = would use native endian, but at least it would fix the size problem/
 
Cbg
 
cabbage Pro
 
1:06 PM
And I must admit that when transmitting data between machines it's insane to not be specific about the endian convention. :)
 
@holdenweb Not sure, never really used any OpenGL, but some of the libraries today seem super straight forward
 
@PM2Ring I am clearly too tired to not only write comprehensible English but to read correctly
 
:)
Whoa, this has got 9 upvotes already: stackoverflow.com/questions/36085185/…
 
Some nice electro-swing to start everyone's day off right.
 
@PM2Ring I didn't see that GPS there
 
1:21 PM
stackoverflow.com/a/36085492/4251775 this python not java script :P
 
Mac/linux build takes 30 seconds, windows build takes 20 minutes :|
 
@MorganThrapp That video was pinched from Cab Calloway: The Jumpin' Jive
 
user559633
@corvid You're full of reasons why people move away from Windows
 
@PM2Ring I wondered what it was from.
 
@tristan I want to use Ubuntu or Arch Linux on this, because it's a computer that literally only loads one program, and that program is just a stripped down distro of chromium I made. Only catch is other guy uses a dev tool that only works on windows. How to convince boss?
 
1:26 PM
@MorganThrapp I'm a big swing fan, so I recognised Cab immediately. FWIW, Cab was in the original Blues Brothers movie, although that was a few decades after the clip I just linked to. :)
 
user559633
@corvid What dev tool does he use? Find an alternative. Or run your code on a VM there and say it's so you don't have to maintain another platform or do extra-management
 
@PM2Ring Oh, nice, I didn't know that. I love that movie.
 
It's for a motion controller for a robot, and also teamviewer (but I am sure there's a linux equivalent)
 
What are your thoughts on electro-swing like that song? I know a couple people who are into swing, and it seems to be fairly polarizing.
 
@MorganThrapp He does his big hit Minnie the Moocher as the warm-up act for the Blues Brothers at their benefit concert.
 
1:27 PM
@PM2Ring Ohhh, cool. I need to watch it again.
Man, that int conversion question is attracting some terrible answers.
 
Ooh, winning the answer battle on stackoverflow.com/questions/36085185/… !
 
@corvid teamviewer for linux actually works
 
@MorganThrapp Here's a slightly blurry clip of Cab doing Minnie the Moocher
 
@holdenweb sopython room effect
 
I upvoted both. :D
 
1:31 PM
@AnttiHaapala I'll take that!
 
@PM2Ring I love his smile. Also, I know this song, I just didn't ever know the name/who it was by.
And that dance is amazing.
 
@holdenweb 3.1459 -> pi = 3.14159 just saying :P
 
That's the first thing I noticed in the answer
 
I didn't make that mistake deliberately, but I'll leave it in if it annoys you sufficiently
3
 
1:33 PM
@paul23 easter egg
@paul23 you're supposed to say "no, it does not annoy me at all" and then bite your tongue.
 
Nah I'll just cry in a corner now, feeling unloved...
 
user559633
Holdenweb stock is up! Invest in Holdenweb!
 
@paul23 I am in the NE corner already
 
That Q should probably be added to the canon - it's one of those obvious when you know, but actually a reasonable question if you don't ones
 
I'd like to migrate my SO python question to Code Review - is there a mechanism by which I can accomplish that?
 
1:37 PM
omgsh. i just deleted a LOT of things from my database. I thought I was iterating over the query and deleting items from the query but I was actually deleting the objects themselves entirely from the database. I don't know anything about recovering stuff like this but I really hope it's possible.. can anyone offer some guidance as to what I might try?
 
@JonClements It's hard to google for that problem though.
 
@clickhere depends.
@clickhere which db is this
 
Hey @paul23: Here's a bit of pi approximation trivia for you. If you use 22/7 for pi you can improve the result by subtracting .04%
 
sqlite
 
>>> 3.1416==(22/7.)*(1-4/10000.)
True
 
1:38 PM
@clickhere ^
2
Q: Undelete accidentally deleted records in Sqlite3

goodwillAs title, possible? I have by accident deleted another record due to my ugly html interface in FireFox. The bad thing is this record delete is a root folder which the program automatically cascade delete everything :(

also if you didn't commit then rollback
 
user559633
i have a ruby question is this a good place for it
 
try to rollback right away
@tristan go ahead
 
@PM2Ring Wasn't 22/7 what the babylonians used for pi?
 
user559633
i did a thing in ruby and i want to undo it should i ask here
 
As long as you add "... in Python?" to the end of your question, that's fine
 
1:39 PM
@tristan yes,
if you want to undo whatever you did in ruby and redo it in python, this is exactly the place to ask about it
 
user559633
jk; as if the first thing i do when running into a problem with ruby isn't to just write it in python instead
 
Ruby, for when Python is too easy.
 
lol I just noticed half my functions have a "get_" prefix. "get_max_distance_to_other_body" vs: "pythagoral_distance_two_points". I'm so good with naming schemes.
 
user559633
@paul23 i like using get_ for functions because it increases the likelihood of unintentionally amusing function names
 
I'm wondering how you would get the pythagoral distance between a number of points other than two.
 
1:43 PM
@paul23 I don't think so. A quick Google suggests that their best approximation was 3⅛, earlier they just used 3. Various pi approximations were used in ancient times, sqrt(10) was one of the better ones. I'm rather fond of the old Chinese approximation 355/113.
 
I remembered 200 digits of pi once. totally useless.
now I remember only ~40 which is still totally useless
 
Oh yeah? Well, I remember 5. So there.
 
Completely useless - let us know when you can recite pi backwards though :p
 
This is probably a super dumb question, but how do people usually manage patches to an installed application? Do they have to expose some endpoint that can receive a payload on their computer somehow? I figure I could create a git hook that watches releases and posts to all known clients
 
@MorganThrapp 6 is the sweet spot for me, you'll be able to have a millionth accuracy which is neat.
 
1:48 PM
Ah - question answered after psychic divination of data structure. Been a while since I answered one - thanks for the tip @dsm.
Cabbage all
 
I want this chair.
Cbg, JRS.
 
@JonClements Just running reversed(digits_of_pi()) on my superfast desktop, but not expecting an answer before the heat death of the universe :)
 
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820, which is incorrectly rounded because the next digit is 9
 
@holdenweb I appreciate the effort however - 1) I'm a patient puppy - but not that patient and 2) last time I checked I wasn't immortal :)
 
user559633
@corvid polling is common (e.g. "check for updates")
 
user559633
1:51 PM
 
@tristan Yup, looks like utopia to me
 
@corvid open a UDP socket to 31337, that receives packets from 0.0.0.0 and then execs them as Python source code.
 
user559633
or write it in C and use 31338!!!!
 
user559633
although most days, i barely even feel 31336
 
I hate initialisms in English.
 
user559633
1:52 PM
Like GNU Not Usable?
 
I always write an UDP then I read it as an YOU...
 
user559633
Oh god, gross, now I'm infected with that
 
then I fix it and then I am like "but now it is a unreliable"
but problem solved: wikipedia says it is "user datagram protocol"
 
The trials of life
 
so "a" is always correct.
 
1:54 PM
I always struggle with a MCVE vs an MCVE.
 
joy - equilibrium restored.
oh dear, morgan has thrown in a spanner :)
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp Minimally close-votable example. Easy
 
@JonClements [hits ^C]
 
@tristan An minimally?
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp whatever butters your bread morgy. morgy thrappuchino
 
1:57 PM
@tristan Well, that's a new one. Don't think I've gotten that before. :P
 
user559633
yeah, sorry. when i was 6 or 7, my parents took me on a road trip that felt so long that i convinced myself i could speed up or slow down time with my mind. i'm about 110% as bored right now.
 
My coworker is spelling something over the phone. "Q as in queen [...] G as in green". I feel like he could be choosing better example words.
 
The NATO phonetic alphabet exists for a reason, coworker.
 
^^^ pi in reverse - easy peasy
 
1:58 PM
Ip -- Pi in reverse
 
user559633
@Kevin I think you mean the November Alpha Tango Oscar alphabet
 
user559633
poop in reverse is poop!! text this to 10 people or zuckerborg will delete your twitter acount
 
Wow, looks like that one dumb answer is going to gain me max rep today. You could knock me down with a feather
 
poop rotated 180 degrees is dood
 
@joncle That picture is just... wrong...
 
2:08 PM
Some more classic swing: Benny Goodman & his orchestra, featuring Peggy Lee on vocals: Why Don't You Do Right
 
What would you guys recommend for an operating system that doesn't need any interface but a web browser? (Ie, starts up directly into web browser with no other real functionality)
 
pi reversed is iq
˙uʍop ǝpısdn uǝʇʇıɹʍ ʇsnɾ 'uoɥʇʎd ʎןןɐnʇɔɐ sı ʇɐɥʇ ǝƃɐnƃuɐן ƃuıɯɯɐɹƃoɹd ɐ ʇnoqɐ ʍoɥ
@Kevin I've got a new idea for kevinscript
 
@corvid Wouldn't that be the chromebook OS?
 
significant whitespace, at the end of line.
 
I'd be thinking Chromebook OS, too, @corvid
 
2:19 PM
That's possible to download without a chromebook?
 
Dunno. Google says getchrome.eu
And they should know. It being theirs and all.
 
@AnttiHaapala Unfortunately that conflicts with my already existing design philosophy of "whitespace, including newlines, never matters".
 
soinkevinscriptyoucanonlyprinttextwithoutspacesifyoudonotuseescapes?
 
This is important to me because when newbies ask KS questions on SO and inevitably post code in a comment instead of in their post, the lack of markdown won't mangle the syntax.
 
thenwhatisexpertsexchangeparsedas?
 
2:24 PM
@AnttiHaapala Hmm, I don't know. Not sure if I ever tested strings with spaces in.
There is a real chance that my parser removes whitespace from string literals.
 
@BhargavRao starredyourmessagesothatitremainsonthestarboardontherighthandsideuntilI'vesucces‌​sfullyparseditmyself.
 
> Cr OS Linux is not related to Google. The service is powered by SUSE Studio.
It's not quite chromeos, but it's close.
 
@AnttiHaapala, looks like I deleted a lot less than I thought I did. probably still take an hour or so to add everything back. But going forward, what's a good simple way to automate backing up my database every hour or so?
 
@AnttiHaapala Thankyouforstarringthemessagewhichwasmeanttobeareplytothestarlord.
 
@clickhere well... first of all, why do you want to use sqlite :d
 
2:27 PM
because I've tried setting up postgresql like 2-3 times and failed
 
I never had any problems with it..
 
Serious feature: Having 2 names that only differ by capitalization in the same scope = error.
Or replace error with painful shocks delivered directly to the programmer if you can wing it.
 
>>> from PIL import Image, ImageDraw
>>> img = Image.new("RGB", (100,100))
>>> draw = ImageDraw.Draw(img)
>>> draw.arc((0,0,100,100), 0, 180, outline="black")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: arc() got an unexpected keyword argument 'outline'
> draw.arc(xy, start, end, options)
>
> Draws an arc (a portion of a circle outline) between the start and end angles, inside the given bounding box.
>
> The outline option gives the colour to use for the arc.
:-I
PIL why. Why do you do this to me.
 
Umm... it doesn't say **options though does it - what about passing {'outline': 'black'} instead?
 
@clickhere which OS are you using?
 
2:33 PM
Windows 10
 
That's just crazy enough to work.
Update: it didn't work.
 
didn't think so - but only thing I could think of that it might be :)
 
Maybe it's because I'm reading PIL docs but using Pillow.
 
@clickhere windows installer should work
the biggest annoyance is that the pg_hba.conf is in text file
 
Ok, fill="black" works. But this bothers me because the fill option usually implies that the drawn shape will be filled in with a solid color but here it specifies the color of the line used to draw the arc.
 
2:35 PM
so... the color that fills the arc?
 
I guess technically, it's only drawing the line and filling that, but yeah, that's terrible.
 
DSM
(sigh) decided to come into the office. :-|
 
I know that I can get an actually filled in shape using chord instead of arc, so I'm not actually locked out of any functionality... But I'm bothered anyway.
 
@DSM Happy last day!
 
2:37 PM
does this comment make sense to anyone: what method should I do that I don't understand that I think...
 
Let's all get into a semantical argument over whether something of infinitesimally small width can be "filled"
 
DSM
@MorganThrapp: last day? I'm still here for two more weeks. Unless you meant last day of the workweek, which is true. :-)
 
@DSM Oh, I thought you had said you were done this Friday. My memory ain't what it used to be. ;)
 
I thought DSM was already done, and was confused as to why he was breaking into his previous place of employment.
 
But yeah, lets pretend I meant last day of the week.
 
2:40 PM
@Kevin But an arc isn't a closed shape, is it? Unlike a chord. fill would appear to make little sense
 
@holdenweb Yeah. Arc is open, chord is closed.
 
@TadhgMcDonald-Jensen no, perhaps some Dutch guy kan Nederlands spreken met hem.
 
Arc is a closed shape?
 
cbg
 
cbg all
 
2:41 PM
cbg
 
arc is open. In my example code, draw.arc((0,0,100,100), 0, 180, fill="black") draws a U shape. The ends aren't connected, unlike with chord.
 
1d objects can't have an outline either.
'thickness' and synonyms work though. Oops, we use that to refer to a different concept re: lines.
 
DSM
@Kevin, @MorganThrapp: my last day is April Fools' day. I may have mentioned it seemed appropriate. :-)
7
 
@Kevin ask that on main site :d
 
Haha, You can come back home and play that April fool's game on StackExchange
 
2:46 PM
Oh nice, Pillow-specific docs. Thanks for the link.
Yep, there it is -- fill – Color to use for the arc.
 
@MorganThrapp I stand corrected. It not being theirs and all.
 
Totally Kevin'd it
 
@Kevin you want pieslice probably?
probably the reasoning goes like: if there is 1 color then use fill
if 2 then there is outline
even line takes fill
well, if you colored the outline of a line, it would look different, now wouldn't it?
 
Hi. Is there any difference between 2 * [x] and [x] * 2? A is a list
 
I just found our encryption code that we use for passwords. It's deterministic. I am VERY glad that this doesn't touch the internet.
 
2:53 PM
@ColonelPanic A is a list... So is A, [x] in your eg?
 
@ColonelPanic What sort of difference are you interested in? I'm guessing you've tried it? Are you perhaps wondering about mutability / whether it copies etc?
 
@MorganThrapp what do you mean by deterministic? This concept sounds familiar but I'm drawing a blank
 
@ColonelPanic No difference that matters
 
@Programmer If you feed the same password in, you'll always get the same hash.
So it's trivially easy to reverse engineer.
 
2:56 PM
So how do you authenticate when it's not deterministic?
 
@programmer the usual way is to add a random "salt" string
The salt is stored with the hash, and included in it, so anyone now knowing the salt will have to do more brute-force guessing
 
@ColonelPanic (2).__mul__([x]) returns NotImplemented so it tries [x].__rmul__(2) which does the same as [x].__mul__(2) but that doesn't matter unless you are doing it with your own classes.
 
Ahh, okay I wasn't thinking of salts. Silly me :)
 
So it's deterministic on the server side, but hte client, not knowing the relevant salt, sees it as non-deterministic
 
@vaultah cbg - I was trying to find who had a copy of some game last night - how many hours have you spent on that FPS game? Wow :)
 
2:59 PM
@ColonelPanic idiomatic to have scalar on right. It is also faster because of what @TadhgMcDonald-Jensen said.
 

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