« first day (102 days earlier)      last day (4846 days later) » 

4:00 PM
but I'm very scared by the admissions page :(
"Skills and abilities": I'm Diamond League Starcraft 2? :P
 
why?
 
"Submit your CV": What CV? I don't have anything meaningful to put on it
especially since they already asked me about my education history and work experience and my degree
 
your skills and abilities
you could put your pet projects on it
I did that
cuz I had nothing else
 
lol
I don't quite think that they will accept my half-developed game engine as a source of excellence
 
well, it at least shows you have a passion and ambition to do what you do
and you have motivation
 
4:02 PM
there is that
 
and you have code you can show them
 
but, hey, it's my source and I like to keep it to myself :(
 
ok, then keep it for yourself I guess...
 
if I wanted to show them, I'd have to upload the source code to the Internet
meaning anyone could access it
 
mem stick?
private ftp server?
 
4:03 PM
uploaded on to my CV?
 
yea, put it on your CV
see if anyone can make sense of it
in HR dept
 
don't think the internship applications go through HR
the person at Intel said that their interships went to the head of department
 
shud be fine then
 
it's not that I have nothing to say about my programming history or experience
I just don't think that it applies in the sections that are asking about things like, previous instances where I demonstrated effective teamwork
doesn't help that I'm a loner by nature
 
3
Q: How to pronounce "E = mc²"?

user3780This is a physic equation, I think.

That question horrifies me
not the question per se – the adjunct explanation
> This is a physic equation, I think.
*shudder*
 
4:08 PM
ROFL
 
LOL
@DeadMG I'm a loner too
so what?
 
well
so I don't work in a team unless my university assigns me group coursework
which is currently unfinished
 
I think writing code is mostly loner business
 
it isn't
if you have a team of engineers, because your project is of a certain size, they have to communicate effectively about designs and that kind of thing
 
yea
 
4:12 PM
the implementation of interfaces is typically far less time than the design time
 
sure, but I was talking purely about actually writing code
 
sure, but that's a long way from the only job of a software engineer
 
true
 
more importantly, there are new practices called pair programming
which is exactly what it says it is
 
so what industry would you like to work in then?
 
4:13 PM
Writing code used to be mostly loner business -- but as software projects are managed today, there's less room for that.
 
hmmm yes I've heard of that
 
hell, I'm perfectly happy to work as a software engineer
 
coding what type of application though?
 
@KonradRudolph Konrad, perhaps you need to look up the flat earth society... :-)
 
probably games, I find them more interesting
 
4:14 PM
cool
 
but hey, software and algorithms is software and algorithms
I'm in it for the challenge, not because I like pew pew lazorz
 
Games are probably the most collaborative type of development out there. In professionally developed games, nobody tries to have one person do the story line, the character drawing, the animation, etc. It's actually done very much like a movie, with a the different tasks carried out by different people...
 
@Jerry: believe me, even these loons know their arch-enemy well enough to have stumbled over this weird “E=mc” thingy ;-)
 
@KonradRudolph Well, yes -- in fact, I know at least one physics prof who's a member (thinks it's great fun, and knows exactly where the holes in lots of the standard theories are too...
 
0
A: C++: Defined my own assignment operator for my type, now .sort() wont work on vectors of my type?

DeadMGNo, no, no. It's not supposed to work that way at all. Your current assignment operator destroys the object it's called on, then calls itself (oh hey, infinite recursion) on a destroyed object (oh hey, undefined behaviour). You are not supposed to destroy the existing object. At all. And this cod...

 
4:23 PM
waaaait wait wait wait, lemme get this straight
 
this must be a dupe of a billion questions
 
You know a physics professor who is a flat-earther?!
 
DeadM: Get into CHI if you can't do math.
 
@KonradRudolph Yup! LIke I said, he thinks it's a lot of fun, though he obviously doesn't take any of it too seriously...
 
@Jerry: Duh. The Wikipedia article needs an update. I’ve just noticed that the current society is a hoax
it didn’t start out as a joke …
 
4:29 PM
@KonradRudolph I don't know about "hoax" exactly -- but definitely for fun, not seriousness.
At least in the typical case, "hoax" implies that they're trying to mislead others, which I don't think is the case here. This is more on the order of pastafarians...
 
4:56 PM
I've always been wondering why they ask concepts related to OOPS during job interviews... Do they actually follow what they ask from us ?
 
I still believe uncommnented downvotes are a problem.
 
OOPS or oops may mean: *A light-hearted interjection made in response to the observation of a minor mistake or error, usually standardized onomatopoetically as "Oops!" or "Whoops!" *A small accident *Linux kernel oops, when some programming defect or otherwise unexpected event interferes with the normal operation of the Linux kernel *"Oops!" (Frasier), an episode of Frasier * Oops!… I Did It Again, a 2000 album by Britney Spears; see also, "Oops!... I Did It Again" (song) * Ooops!, French-Canadian comedy television series
 
@JohnDibling I think you're right, but doing much about it would be difficult. Requiring a comment is likely to lead a lot of "asdf jkl;" types of comments...
 
@Jerry: I thought my idea of awarding rep for up-voted comments explaining downvotes was good. Difficult to implement, maybe.
 
@JerryCoffin These could be consistently flagged for moderation and the relevant downvotes removed
 
5:08 PM
@Konrad So we suppose that someone downvotes and doesn't really want to explain that the post (commented on) was so stupid it just deserved a downvote?
Those downvotes get removed simply because someone doesn't feel like explaining the obvious?
 
@Xaade: The big problem is when someone downvotes an already-upvoted, or even accepted answer but doesn't explain why.
 
@Xaade if you can’t explain your downvote, you’ve got no right to downvote, simple as that.
 
If there is something subtly wrong with the answer, but they dont explain it, then the information on SO ends up being wrong, and that is bad.
 
@John Would it be more fair if downvotes showed more equal to their relative effect on rep?
 
@Xaade: Elaborate, please?
 
5:12 PM
Like 1 upvote = 1, an additional downvote = .5 total
or .8 even to be exactly equivalent
Or maybe, a downvote shows up as -.2, but a commented downvote is -1?
If the comment is flagged as useless, the downvote goes back to -.2
 
@JerryCoffin yes, "asdlkj" comments, but then everybody can see that that one is not serious
@JohnDibling aol
 
America On-Line? I dont get the reference.
 
I just think that if you give people the power to strip downvotes away, you're just deferring the abuser one level.
 
@JohnDibling Means "me too", in old Usenet jargon. Because AOL was a bunch of me-toos. Connects with expression "Eternal September"... ;-)
 
LOL I dont get that reference, either. But I get what you're saying now.
 
5:20 PM
@JohnDibling This is a real problem. I don't think requiring a comment would help. I always either comment or upvote an existing comment if I downvote (unless the post is offensive or so ridiculously off-topic that no comment is necessary).
 
I suppose I could google Eternal September
 
@JohnDibling Oh; maybe that's what the Green Day song "Wake Me Up When September Ends" is really about!
 
@James, to quote @Alf, "aol"
@James: I always figured it was just an excercise in being a bunch of whiny hippies. :)
 
@John So are you manually reversing the meme, or is this now an actual meme all its own.
 
I hate Green Day
 
5:22 PM
I only hate Green when it tries to impose something that's the exact opposite of green in an effort to "try anything".
Like solar panel farms.
 
@Xaade: Ultimately, I'm trying to find a solution to the core problem: That SO disseminates far to much incorrect or blantantly wrong information.
 
Because SO relies far too much on Rep to restrict moderation tools.
 
And at the end of the day, I honestly don't care much about rep.
 
It's easy not to care once you reach 4k
IFF
You actually care about the betterment of the site
 
@JohnDibling IMO, the "accepted" answer being moved to the top is part of the problem. In many cases, the person who asked the question is in a poor position to judge which of the answers is best, so the "accepted" answer often isn't (even close to) the best, but still gets moved to where it gets the most attention (and often subsequent up-votes...)
 
5:25 PM
The core problem isn't the incorrect information, as much as, a number is never adequate to relate trust.
 
AOL! n.
[Usenet] Common synonym for "Me, too!" alluding to the legendary propensity of America Online users to utter contentless "Me, too!" postings. The number of exclamation points following varies from zero to five or so. The pseudo-HTML

<AOL>Me, too!</AOL>

is also frequently seen. See also [572]September that never ended
 
@Jerry, @Xaade: I think you both said essentially the same thing
 
But how do you flag a question for an expert to judge the correct answer. The expert might as well answer every question himself. Then you're back at square one.
 
@Xaade: In theory, by posting on SO you flag a question for "expert review." At least that's the intent of the site, as far as I can tell.
Problem is, nobody knows everything.
 
5:28 PM
I think it would be best to implement Wiki method of backtagging. Then let people outvote for the "accepted" answer. Allow people to tag questions for various reasons, not just mod review.
 
@Jerry: :)
 
For example. Tag a question with a "Come outvote the accepted answer because the OP is a dumbass" tag. Then create a system that allows a community vote from high Rep people to outvote, but then you're at square one with abusing outvoting.
Ok, rewind a little.
 
@Xaade Not to advocate for it, but I can't agree -- picking the best of a number of answers if often a lot quicker and easier than writing an equally good one (at least for me -- but maybe that just means I'm not an "expert").
 
Let's try this idea. Maybe another part of the problem is that rep confers adequate knowledge, but doesn't express the context of that knowledge. Tie the ability to outvote to a Rep system per tag. After expressing some knowledge in the subject, (determined by SO tag "topic"), a person is allowed to override an accepted answer, or cast a poll to override, which gets the attention of others who are capable of doing the same.
I have 130 Rep on Stackoverflow because I know Regex, C++, and logic. That doesn't mean I have any clue how to run a webservice on a server. So I have my rep distributed to the tags that I answered the questions for. Then my rep reflects where my knowledge lies.
 
I think I've said this before, but. Worth repeating. The current idea where the OP can only show gratitute (conferring rep) by selecting "the answer", is sort of braindead. The OP, who had to ask the question, is in general the one that's least qualified to select an answer. But is of course most qualified to show gratitude. So the latter should be possible without the former. Preferably, in my view, the former shouldn't be possible.
2
 
5:36 PM
Given that from @AlfPSteinbach I think another problem is that we're equating a system where people ask questions and get answers to a system that holds valuable reference material in a Q&A format.
 
@Alf: Do you think "voting to accept" is a good solution?
 
Typically in Q&A, the user asks a question to a known audience (he knows who will answer) and receives an answer that is correct as far as that expert's knowledge extends.
In other words, the expert "accepts" their own answer, and the OP gets whatever he gets.
 
@JohnDibling Don't know. And I'm kind of tired. Still able to cough up old views, but don't ask me to think... ;-)
 
The rock and hard place lies in the balancing act this site tries to perform. Between having a satisfied OP, and having correct information. The OP doesn't feel involved if he can't know his audience. How does he select the expert he wants an answer from? He accepts an answer to reflect that.
Therefore REP reflects just that, Reputation, and not the degree of expertise. And answers reflect REP and aren't tested for validity and verifiability.
@Alf @John Is that about it?
 
@AlfPSteinbach the OP is in the best position to say which answer helped them the most. an accept is only 15 rep – a pittance compared to the 100 rep for a "nice answer"
 
5:44 PM
@FredNurk However, it's cap-exempt reputation, which for some people, is quite useful.
 
@JamesMcNellis In particular, the cap exempt rep is pretty much everything that separates the top 100 (or so) rep-gainers in any given week.
 
only 128 epic badges on SO so far, though 50 days must be quite hard to hit, and mortarboard isn't useful to compare
@JamesMcNellis I imagine for some users it really does matter, but only the top 1%? 2%? should what affects them determine how things should work for the other 98%?
 
@JerryCoffin Yep. Were it not for the cap, I'd be over 100k now. Granted, the people that are currently over 100k would probably be over 200k.
 
and Jon Skeet would be over 500k :P
 
@FredNurk I'd say yes, at least to some extent. In particular, a small percentage of the users account for a disproportionate percentage of the content that's useful enough to make the site popular. Catering to them (to at least some degree) is good for the site and the community.
 
5:50 PM
can't argue with "to some extent", but the thick of it is determining how far
 
I'm here often, I don't have that much rep :(
 
@FredNurk as long as it doesn't affect the quality of their answers. I don't care how far.
 
but then again, I don't answer many questions either
 
@Xaade be wary of creating elitist cabals
 
@JamesMcNellis Yup -- that brings to ming another point that's often bothered me. I think it would be much more reasonable to have a cap on the rep gained from a given question, rather than per day...
 
5:52 PM
@FredNurk reread, affect the quality of their answers to also mean the quality of their interaction with other users.
 
@Xaade be wary of creating elitist cabals
 
Elitist cabals would break both of those requirements
Therefore you've gone too far in catering to them.
Besides, you could always hard reset their rep....
 
@Xaade: for example, there's this post on meta.stackoverflow explaining how meta works differently from others sites (e.g. voting); meta has an elitist cabal to a large extent, to the point where I'm turned off from participating there, I often see people turned off when joining in for the first time, and I've heard more than one person say the same (sbi being one of those, iirc) – even though meta should be people that participate more and where it would, under what you said, be preferable to…
…cater to those that participate more
 
@FredNurk First, no, the OP is not in position to say which answer helped the most. The OP doesn't know the problems further down the road, and being the one to ask, doesn't know enough to imagine or reason it out. Like being told to cast. Hey, worked nicely, "that's the answer". Misleading others who look it up via google or whatever. Re your points about how much rep, that's not wrong by itself, but it is irrelevant as I see it.
 
@AlfPSteinbach also, accepting isn't the only way to show gratitude: the OP can also upvote.
@Alf: the OP is the only one who can determine which answer is the easiest for them to understand, which is the largest part of determining which answer helped them the most
 
5:58 PM
@FredNurk yes, but there's a difference, so much that people (well, reddits) thought Hans had asked the OP to accept his answer as "the answer"
 
what does that have to do with this?
 
@FredNurk No, ease of understanding isn't that good a criterion. By that criterion, Herb Schildt is the greatest C++ author ever. But really, he isn't. I think we can be happy that he isn't answering questions on SO. Possibly he would have got a lot of votes.
2
 
do you mean C?
even if understandability is a horrible criteria, it's the best we have
 
@FredNurk I meant C++. Schildt wrote, among other books, "The annotated C++ reference manual". Famous because it was half the price of the standard and quoted almost all of the standard. Difference in price due to Shildt's commentary.
 
I have no doubt that plenty of people have learned things from schildt that have helped them be productive, for example, enough so that he's had a high net positive affect; yet I will still link to bullschildt in the jargon file if required, because people can do even better
@AlfPSteinbach surely you have something wrong, the ARM was written by stroustrup and ellis
 
6:03 PM
@AlfPSteinbach No -- that was the Annotated C Standard. He's written some books about C++ though, and they're equally bad (e.g., C++ The Complete Reference).
 
Again, you're trying to solve two problems and they are incompatible. You're trying to answer a particular person's question with limited scope, in such a way that it becomes good reference material.
 
@Xaade I don't think the two are necessarily incompatible -- and if you read their blogs, that's definitely one of the goals for the site in any case.
 
@Xaade that's the wrong way to do it; answer the question asked
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, i got the title wrong. thx.
 
I've seen it explicitly stated that if an answer can be written that serves the question, and serves a wider topic as well, do so. Also, I've seen it told to people with moderator tools to edit questions so they serve a wider topic.
So that we get good Google results
This undermines the concept of answering a person's question. Replacing it with an attempt to turn existing Q&As into good google reference material.... IMO.
 
6:08 PM
I agree
An answer should answer a question and no more
2
 
@AlfPSteinbach No problem.
@DeadMG Yes and no. Overgeneralizing to the point that it's hard to find the answer to the original question is a real problem -- but in many cases, you can provide an answer that's much more general while still providing a direct, useful answer to the original question.
 
sure
but that's really not helpful, because if I'm searching to see if my question is already answered, the similar questions list is not going to show general answers
You can't search answers or index them by additional topics covered or anything like that, you can only search for questions
writing an answer that covers Situation Y in a question about Situation X is worthless, because if I'm searching for questions about Situation Y to prevent a duplicate, there's no way that I can find that answer
not to mention the subjectivity of how general an answer really is
 
@DeadMG Pretty much the same thing got discussed when we started working on a FAQ. It's true that the questioner probably won't find the more general answer on his own, but others can point him to it...
 
true
only if I remember about it
 
6:18 PM
if I read an answer that covers both X and Y, then you're depending on me to both remember and find that answer later when answering about Y
if I just forget, then the idea is broken
or if I can't find the link
or what if I just happen to be on holiday and nobody who is around saw that answer? Now we have a redundant question on Y
 
@DeadMG True -- it won't always provide any extra benefit. But I've referred people to answers I've given before often enough to say it has some benefit (and sometimes done minor editing to make the answer more general, rather than write a whole new one...)
 
0
A: Permutations of multiple ranges of numbers

NimHere is a slightly modified version of your generation algorithm (which is broken). int generatePermutations(vector<int> &myVector, vector<vector<int> >& swappable) { bool p1, p2; do { // print copy(myVector.begin(), myVector.end(), ostream_iterator<int...

 
well, I will admit that there are some answers where the cost of making them more general is trivial
 
@DeadMG that is overlap between answering the question asked and targeting a general audience
 
but I think that in general, it's not something that should be relied upon at all
 
6:28 PM
Besides, I've noticed that I'll type the same thing on this site's search and on google, and the question will be here, but not on google.
I wonder if there's a way to get google to wire their website search to pull from your own search results, instead of searching the website?
 
search terms site:stackoverflow.com works pretty well for me
 
yay, got over 20k rep now
 
@Dead: grats
 
thanks
I wish I had a free-threaded renderer
I want to play with concurrency
 
Is it OK to post a new question that simply asks to check the validity of a block of code?
 
6:43 PM
no
questions are about problems, and if there's no problem, there's no question
there is a code review beta stackexchange site up
 
oh, cool
 
not that I can recall the URL
ool
private beta for one more day
 
private, as in i cant get to it?
found it
i'm going to put the first post up :)
 
lol
 
@JohnDibling if it's about a specific block of code with specific concerns (UB, exception-safety, performance, etc.) then that's fine: consider that you can show "what you've already tried" in this case; the questions that are just "here's 100 lines of code; how to improve it?" are different
 
6:51 PM
Well, the block of code I'm curious about in particular... I am wondering if I have any undefined behavior. I think it's OK, but I want peer-review. Is this acceptable?
 
can you narrow down by eliminating specific lines where you know there isn't UB?
 
Yes, I can narrow the question down to 1 line of code
 
it's perfectly valid to post such a question on codereview.stackexchange.com
as long as it's not too much
 
The entire test app will be perhaps 50 lines of code
 
@JohnDibling I see no problem with that
 
6:52 PM
But the code I'm curious about will be 1-5 lines
the rest is just the test harness
 
@JohnDibling I'd say go ahead and post it along with a question about your concern(s).
 
hell, just post it in chat if it's that short
 
can do that too, writing the test harness now
 
it's the huge (relatively) bits of code asking for vague improvements that are distracting and should be ignored (at least on SO), asking about UB in one (reasonably-sized) line of code is miles apart
 
@DeadMG IMO, when you have a real question like that, it's generally better to ask it on the main site.
 
6:55 PM
there is that
this chat always confuses me, because it's called a chat, but you can go back and edit and delete things and you can't post in it quickly, which seems to be rather contradictory
damn flood filter :(
 
sbi
3 hours ago, by DeadMG
being new to C++ is no different to being new to Python, Lua, Java, C# or PHP
That's wrong, @DeadMG.
You're new to Python etc. for a few months.
You're new to C++ for half a decade.
 
we already covered that :)
3 hours ago, by Fred Nurk
@DeadMG except a lot more painful
 
the guy in the conversation was trying to suggest that it was somehow morally wrong to be new
 
sbi
@FredN I've seen this, but I needed to slip in my thoughts nevertheless.
3 hours ago, by DeadMG
we did C++ for five weeks
I just say wow. When I taught C++, my students had 12-15 lectures, plus twice the amount of lab work. And I merely skimmed all the topics. Afterwards I told them that they can now go and apply for novice status. :)
1 hour ago, by Konrad Rudolph
@JerryCoffin These could be consistently flagged for moderation and the relevant downvotes removed
I consider this a very good idea.
If we all start to flag unexplained downvotes, maybe the mods get annoyed enough about it to actually push on meta for a change.
2
 
@sbi if that happened, you'd just get "+1. blah blah made up text" instead of "afdak;lj" comments on down votes
actually that's to @KonradRudolph
 
sbi
7:08 PM
@FredNurk Well, all the more reason to flag, then.
 
how would you know to flag?
 
sbi
@FredNurk I'd have an unexplained downvote. Didn't I just say I consider it a good idea to flag those?
 
instead of requiring comments, remove anonymity, which would already happen if you required comments anyway (combined with someone diligent enough to check timestamps thoroughly)
 
@sbi You're new to C++ for half a decade. Then you realize how you can use things you've been doing for something else. Then you're new to your new coding style all over again.
 
It's certainly true that the example I gave was obviously nonsensical, and easy to flag. At the same time, in a lot of cases it would be trivial to paste something like "can't understand" that could be perfectly valid reasons for a downvote in some cases, and are so generic you could apply them to any question...
 
7:13 PM
@JerryCoffin which is why I like the way Wikis work in their tags and backtagging [EditMe].
 
at the same time, even those easy to flag comments would drastically increase moderator load without any real benefit
 
For that matter, I think about half the downvotes I've done could have had a comment that said only "UB", and probably everybody who's in here right now would realize I meant: "answer is poor because it contains undefined behavior."
 
I keep coming back to people just don't like downvotes, period, for any reason. and that has a solution you can encourage now: don't downvote, period, for any reason. if there's something wrong with an answer that you feel is worth pointing out, comment on it or upvote an existing comment – and then trust people to read and think for themselves
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yes, of course. Still, actually having to write something would be a much higher barrier for undeserved downvoting. Plus, others would see the comment and jump on it, possibly even countering the downvote.
 
people upvoting solely to counter a downvote they don't understand would be worse than leaving as-is
there's all kinds of potential abuse, too: sockpuppets just to down vote you, purposefully introducing something in the answer that's slightly wrong or at least controversial
 
sbi
7:17 PM
@FredNurk That's all well when you're on SO daily, busying yourself with reading and answering questions, and adding comments. When you paste a compiler error message into google and land on SO, all you see is the accepted and most-upvoted answers. If that is wrong, downvoting is the way to go.
 
wrong, when you paste a compiler error into google and land on SO, you see answers and comments on the answers
 
sbi
@FredNurk Yes. And we already have all this now. So what's your point?
 
@sbi I'm not naive enough to believe that a Q&A forum represents facts.
 
@sbi if there's something wrong with an answer that you feel is worth pointing out, comment on it or upvote an existing comment – and then trust people to read and think for themselves
 
MSDN is broken enough as is.... should I expect a community to be 100% correct.
 
sbi
7:19 PM
@FredNurk Yes, I do, and so do you. Others don't. I've been paring with cow-workers who landed on SO, didn't care a bit about how it works, or whether there was any small-print attached to an answer. Let alone stop to think about it before blindly applying.
@Xaade That's nice of you. But most of the programmers fail this test.
 
Paring with cow-workers???
 
they've failed my trust; they get what they deserve
especially in programming, blindly applying without thinking should be a mortal sin
 
@Xaade I do that now and again. You have to pare a lot of corn to make enough silage for a herd of cows, and the cow-workers often need help with it... :-)
 
sbi
@FredNurk Well, this is the point where I will stop this discussion. I've already countered this, to which you came up with arguments, which I've countered, too. When all you have to say to this is your original thesis again, then you don't want to argue. (That's fine, BTW. Just please be so kind and stop wasting my time pretending.)
 
And why do you think I have a resume? Should I cater to naivety thus becoming a negative reinforcement.....
I'd rather someone land on their ass once by having full faith in a forum rather than doing additional research, than to waste immeasurable energy required to ensure everything is correct.
Stamp the small print on, and move on....
 
sbi
7:23 PM
@Xaade Yeah, I like this typo and use it all the time. I guess the others are already tired of it. I'm glad I managed to amuse you with it.
 
@sbi you have a funny way of expressing yourself
 
Otherwise we get sued for not embossing a warning about the coffee being hot.
@sbi I insist you consider further typioing the typo by propagating "sparing with cow-workers"
 
@sbi: I think the best part is when you ask me for what I've just said, so I repeat it, then you accuse me of repeating it.
 
sbi
@Xaade I can't halp, but the way you say this suggests that you've never worked on a decade-old codebase, half of which was cooked up by people who pasted their compiler error messages into google and blindly applied the first answer they find in the first forum google coughed up. Well, I have. I'm sick of it. That, usually, the best answer is on the top, is one of the best things about SO.
@Xaade I like that. :) (Note: I did not say "I'd like that." And that wasn't accidentally.)
 
@sbi that's my job.... seriously, come work where I work....
I have people that built a class that contained bloated classes because they didn't think to rewrite a stripped down base class. Now working with these contained objects is hard as hell because it's even worse if I derive from them and add to the problem.

Which goes back to people not understanding that you divide up an object according to its use, and not write massive objects that handle all possible reflexes one can think of, and manage to convert incoming binary data into a list of settings. The switch statements are a nightm
I like my objects to work independently. Any code required to make them work inside a specific parent should be a new object derived from the previous one.
 
sbi
7:35 PM
@Xaade When using C++, I rarely ever derive nowadays. OO is overrated.
 
What do you do?
 
29 mins ago, by sbi
If we all start to flag unexplained downvotes, maybe the mods get annoyed enough about it to actually push on meta for a change.
2
@sbi Just wanted to pop in very quickly to say that this is an excellent idea, IMHO.
 
@Xaade I can't speak for sbi, but I tend to use templates a lot more than inheritance. Inheritance does have uses, but they're a lot less common than many believe.
 
Trust me, I'm fully interested in others designs.... I'm totally redesigning the way I code in each project because I haven't found a foolproof way to code.
Templates?
How would that work in a GUI?
 
derived classes are for college kids :)
3
 
sbi
7:38 PM
@KonradRudolph LOL! It was your idea, not mine, and I popped in to tell you that it is a good idea! :)
 
enlighten me....
 
@sbi My “idea” has always been that this should be implemented, but just starting now to flag uncommented downvotes never occurred to me.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I wish everybody would star your message so that it could stay on the right for days and days.
 
how does one flag an uncommented downvote?
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Oh. Ah. I see. Well. I'm speechless.
@JohnDibling You flag the downvoted answer explaining the problem and that it is a nuisance. If we all do this for other people's answer (not our own, that would look greedy), we might make a nuisance of ourselves enough that the mods agree that something has to be done.
 
7:41 PM
@John Easy, when you see a downvote on a posting w/o explaining comment, flag the post for mod attention and link to this conversation for reference

Flag unexplained downvotes

35 mins ago, 49 seconds total – 3 messages, 1 user, 2 stars

Bookmarked 44 secs ago by Konrad Rudolph

 
@JerryCoffin Seriously... how do you use templates to write MFC controls?
 
sbi
@Xaade Now you've brought up one of the many reasons MFC is a piece of shit.
@KonradRudolph Oh, sadly I've just thought of a downside of this.
 
@sbi That the moderators will kick us in the nuts?
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Haha!
 
@sbi Well, if you can't escape the POS because you fail to get across the "why", or you have too much code-base to justify the cost..... Now how would you use a template to write a control in an environment that supports using a template to write a control? Worse yet, a control that contains controls?
 
7:43 PM
@Xaade I don't, because the MFC controls are already written. Using something template-based with them would fit poorly enough with the rest of the library to make it more problematic than helpful. If you mean "how do you use templates as a front-end to Windows controls", that's a whole different story.
 
sbi
No, with the recently implemented "flagging reputation" or whatever it's called, you'd seriously damage your flagging rep to the point where nobody would look at your flags anymore. :(
 
@JerryCoffin Mind if I make that a question? So I get a better answer than, yeah, it can be done?
 
@Xaade I don't mind in the least. One that might work better where more discussion was encouraged though...
 
I need to have the question to get the answer....
 
@xaade you will get downvoted in to oblivioon unless it is very specific
 
7:45 PM
I'll put it on the programmers SE
Would that survive?
 
better chance there
 
sbi
@Xaade Of course, if you work with shit, you can't help getting your hands dirty. If you have to work with MFC, my consolations. There's little you can do about. OTOH, you could use MFC as just another GUI lib and do the core in Good C++ (TM).
 
why do you want to implement controls as templates? just because you heard some grumpy old programmers (us) say "derived classes sucks?"
 
@sbi I thought the flagging rep only influenced how many flags per day you had
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph I dunno, all I have to judge is that blog of, um, Jeff? Where is it...
 
7:49 PM
@JohnDibling Because what I'm doing is impossibly stupid, even though it appears easy to maintain....
 
@Xaade I should add, however, that graphical controls are a place/application that inheritance fits better than most others.
 
sbi
@JohnDibling Oh come on. Now please don't start trying to make my reputation for being the Grumpy Old Man(R) rub off on you! You scoundrel!
 
I continually feel like I'm both getting better at C++, and further complicating myself... which in fact could mean I'm getting worse, or getting sideways but heading in a stupid direction.
 
@sbi: i actually was grumpy before you started taking credit for it. :) but, worry not. you are this chat window's Grumpy Old Man. :)
the title of this chat room should be changed to "Grumpy Old Programmers"
 
sbi
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Home of the Grumpy Old Programmers(R)
@JohnDibling Thanks for asserting me.
@JohnDibling Have I ever been able to resist such suggestions? :)
 
7:52 PM
So here's what I have. I have a control that handles all its own reflexes. I derive from that to make a class that interacts with its parent in a very intimate way. The parent class handles all its own reflexes. I derive from the parent class to create a class that works within the effed up system that already exists, so my neat and clean control's reflexes stays separate from the code needed to communicate with the "environment".
 
That way the contained children can be used within the parent, and on their own as independent controls.
 
lol nice
 
Does what I said make sense as a design pattern?
Or am I abusing inheritance?
 
@Xaade: Seems OK without seeing the code
 
7:55 PM
Also, I use Interfaces, so objects not intimate with my controls can have limited access, without me having to friend every intimate class so they have access to all the private stuff I don't want them to.
 
(Dont show me the code) :)
 
I can't
I don't own the code.
But I own the idea, but not the design.....
@JohnDibling ok, I'm glad that it makes sense. I was beginning to think I'm going to wake up one day and realize that everything I've done looks like crap to people who actually know what they're doing....
 
sbi
@JohnDibling Haha. I like "Found out about the STL." especially. Don't we all know this...
 
Hmm...Interesting how the new code review site was counting down minutes until the public beta would open -- but now (roughly an hour overdue) it's just saying it'll open soon. Has something gone wrong?
 
8:15 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Home of the Grumpy Old Programmers™
 
8:30 PM
1
Q: Where should the files go in a SharePoint solution?

DanaOur SharePoint solution has recently been upgraded to SharePoint 2010, and we are taking a look at how we package and deploy the site to see if there are better ways to do things. We currently package all files needed for our site (dll's, images, svc files, xap files, js files, css files, mast...

Is "SharePoint solution" an oxymoron?
2
 

« first day (102 days earlier)      last day (4846 days later) »