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10:05 PM
@Danack what monstrosity is this
i'm guessing it's slow as fuck, right?
 
@Worf Not necessarily - the two implementations I've had a bit of experience of (PHP and Java) there is a small overhead for generating some code, but it's not massive. The problem is that it just makes everything fucking insane.
And you can't tell what code is actually going to do.
 
lol
 
you shouldn't care what the code does. not the main one anyway.
 
For the record, this is why I do not think anyone should copy anything Enterprise level Java programmers have done. They've clearly, as group gone collectively insane.
 
Anonymous
so much fancy-ness into the name was poured, for apparently so little feature.
 
10:10 PM
@nevvermind Programmers shouldn't care what the code does?
 
Anonymous
he is the end product. There is a difference ...
 
i meant that you shouldn't care about aop by looking at the main codebase.
it's meant to be somewhat separate
 
@Danack generally, everything which uses xml, json, yaml, whatever files or annotations for defining program execution flow is INSANE
 
@bwoebi Oh it's okay - they don't use those. They use annotations.
Turns round and sees the seventh seal opening.
 
why do programmers get captivated by such things so easily? it happens all the time
 
10:15 PM
@Danack
 
@Worf I think because they lack the tools (like Auryn) to allow them to write basic code that links different layers of their applications together in a way that is 'reasonably' i.e. doesn't require writing tens of thousands of lines of code.
 
Anonymous
/ I generally get the urge to punch people who use annotations in the face
 
So instead of making an actual architecture in their application where information can be passed around between different layers - instead everything is one big mess, and so they try to come up with magic crap to 'help' organise it.
 
"write basic code that links different layers of their applications together" - my turn to say "contradiction in terms"
 
@nevvermind What?
 
10:18 PM
how can basic code do that?
 
Writing example.....
 
or are you refering to a basic glueing code?
i don't think AOP should be used for business logic, btw. i'd use it for profiling, logging etc.
 
@nevvermind for profiling exist extra tools (like xdebug)
For logging … well depends on what you want to log? You want to log the function calls? setup a tick function inspecting backtraces.
 
@nevvermind Fuck that shit - either just write the decorated classes or use something like github.com/Ocramius/ProxyManager
 
@Danack ProxyManager? That sounds scary…
 
10:26 PM
how's ocramius' proxy better?
and decorating classes. that's a little obstrusive. compared to aop i mean.
 
hello guys! i'am creating a social networking site very similar to facebook but contains a lot of features also from twitter.. it's already 15% done and i'am finding a partner for my project :)
 
i'm not an evangelist of aop. trying to understand the reaction here.
 
feel free to contact me: renz.abano16@gmail.com
 
@bwoebi It's not too insane. I have a very similar thing....but honestly it doesn't save that much time unless you want to create chained proxies, e.g. a "slow logging", "retrying", "fail logging" decoration around an API. It's then that it starts to have some value.
As it allows you to avoid the combinatorial explosion of decorated thing to write.
 
@nevvermind Once the fancy wears off many programmers develop a dislike for magic.
 
10:29 PM
agreed. didn't know that aop is considered that magic, though
 
@NikiC many? Sometimes I get the feel that it's really not a lot of people who do…
 
@nevvermind You can debug it without having to step through the decorated code, without having to step through an AOP library, that is doing magic function calls.
 
@bwoebi I don't count Ruby programmers.
 
@NikiC even in Java, PHP and C++…
 
10:31 PM
a proper AOP php extension would do as much magic as an Iterator obj in a foreach loop
 
@Danack ok now what do you mean by that?
 
@GianLorenzoAbaño If you say something is 15% done, it means you have no idea how long it's going to take.
 
@bwoebi Oh right, I forgot how Java programmers are totally into runtime-generating their classes based of annotations and XML config files
 
@GianLorenzoAbaño What programming languages are you using?
 
yeah your right by the way you want to help me? willing to post the code at github for private.
i'am using PHP for the main site and ASP.net hosted for the SMS support
 
10:33 PM
Ahh, sounds good.
 
@NikiC That was sarcasm... I mean like… magic as in behavior described by annotations (or other types of config files like xml etc.) so that it magically happens in other parts of code.
 
@GianLorenzoAbaño I have many projects that I am working on....but anyone you would want to work on it would ask one question first "What is your budget for marketing the product?"
 
1 million philippine pesos
 
@bwoebi What was sarcasm?
 
@NikiC That Java programmers runtime generate classes?
 
10:34 PM
@Danack equivalent to $22178 USD
 
Damn, you've got a good budget on you.
Get it right and market it well, and you're on to something...
 
it's from my parents.. they will give it to me if it became a big blast
 
@NikiC well, either I know Java badly or there is no possibility to create new classes at runtime.
 
@Danack so you wanna join if you have free time? just contact me at my email
 
@bwoebi You should check out spring....
 
10:36 PM
what spring? the season?
 
@bwoebi Ah no, not sarcasm at all
 
@Danack Afaik you can't eval in Java and code always needs to go through javac which you don't have available at runtime!?
 
@GianLorenzoAbaño I hate giving people negative advice, but.....it sounds like you're taking on a project that would be a big challenge for a team of 20 experienced developers. Although you can (and should!) build stuff for fun, I would strongly advise against spending relative's money to develop and market something that hundreds (if not thousands) of other companies are also trying to do.
 
@NikiC Or is there some nasty runkit-like thing in Java?
 
what about compiled classes and asm?
 
10:39 PM
@bwoebi You can generate bytecode
 
we only have two major social networking site in the world. it's twitter and facebook. I want mine to be the social networking site for developers in the world specially here in the Philippines
 
Honestly I have no idea about how this technically works because I don't use Java, but I'm pretty sure I've seen some talks where this was referenced as an absolutely everyday thing
 
@bwoebi It's nasty - but it's included in the ORM that almost every Java project uses - this is how I encountered it stackoverflow.com/questions/9072749/…
 
0
Q: How to generate class file with java ASM?

Braden SteffaniakI have tried ClassWriter t = new ClassWriter(0); t.visitSource("testing.java", null); t.visitEnd(); byte d[] = t.toByteArray(); FileOutputStream p = null; try { p = new FileOutputStream("testing.class"); } catch (FileNotFoundException e) { ...

 
@GianLorenzoAbaño tumblr, instagram, snapchat, flickr, - there are far more than two - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites
 
10:41 PM
yeah but the most popular and widely use is twitter and facebook
 
@NikiC omg…
 
@GianLorenzoAbaño As I said, you can and do projects like this for fun. But without a huge amount of cash to fund something like 20 developers for two years, I really doubt that a feasible product could be developed.
@bwoebi Fun fact - I spent literally 40+ hours trying to debug that - because even while stepping through the byte-code, there was no trace of what was wrong.
 
@Danack That's not a fun fact … it's a rather sad fact to waste one week just because magic.
 
Irony - when something is contains lots of atoms of atomic number 26.
 
Hm, it looks like Magic Oriented Programming isn't a thing yet
7
night folks
 
10:46 PM
gn
 
nn.
 
night
 
11:37 PM
so ... it's closing on 3AM here
and I am tempted to do for a ride with my bicycle, because the weather outside is awesome
 
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