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DSM
7:00 PM
Well, that question doesn't seem Python-related anyway -- I'm not even sure it's programming-related -- and so probably isn't on topic for this room.
 
I looked in PyPI source code: bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/src/…
I want my sight back
 
@AnttiHaapala I'm using PyPI. Should I be concerned?
Ew. I just looked. Yes, I should be.
 
That list of elifs Looks scary there. Even I might lose my sight
And what is that try without an except?
 
rhubarb!
 
rbrb!
 
7:06 PM
cbg
 
cbg poke
 
@WayneConrad exactly
 
rbrb all
 
@AnttiHaapala we needed an internal package index, and I went looking at the PyPI source. So then I went looking at the api spec, and it's just as crazy as the code. :(
DevPi is pretty much just as crazy.
 
yes
@davidism how do I do a in-relationship query in sqlalchemy/association proxy
 
7:17 PM
any(filter conditions)
 
yeah but what goes into the filter conditions :D
m.DBSession.query(m.Package).filter(m.Package.classifiers.any(m.Package.classifi‌​ers.keyword == 'Framework :: Flask'))
cant do like that :D
 
isnt there something like MyModel.myField_in = [a,list,pof,stuff]?
 
stupid me
 
Was that what you were looking for?
 
7:20 PM
I am so bad at sqlalchemy :D
yes
 
It's technically less efficient than constructing a join and filter, but it's way more convenient.
 
In [5]: m.DBSession.query(m.Package).filter(m.Package.classifiers.any(m.Classifier.name == 'Framework :: Django')).count()
Out[5]: 5677
with postgres it will not be any slower really
 
Hmm, I like your use of an m namespace to collect all the models.
My models are spread all over the place.
 
That is a good idea. I might steal that.
 
Six upvotes total for answers to a "how can I improve my working code" question -_-
 
7:32 PM
close it with fire
 
just cause sometimes those are fun :P
 
DSM
How many upvotes did the "better for CR" comment get?
 
Arguably, none of which actually improve on the existing code. Rather, they throw away the OP's code and write entirely new code.
 
I'm terrible at code review. That's exactly what I do 95% of the time
 
most of the time with those questions that is the best coarse anyway
 
7:33 PM
unless the person whose code I'm reviewing is actually better than me. Then I just pep8 them.
 
@AdamSmith Too bad Code Review isn't a valid target for the "this belongs on..." close reason
 
I've always percieved as something of a magnet for broad questions of the "explain how OO works to me" kind. I don't know if that's a strong enough justification for burnination, however.
 
user559633
" Class is a container that encapsulates most code" awwwww
 
user559633
 
user559633
7:37 PM
all code is oo
 
@Martijn could you add to your list? It's along the same vain...
 
@JonClements there you go.
 
@Martijn suppose you could also add but I think you've made your point :)
@Martijn I've added a backup answer anyway
 
I think the OP would have a leg to stand on, only if he could demonstrate that multi-paradigm languages are a small minority on SO. Ex. If 90% of SO questions are Java questions, and every Java program contains a class, then maybe burnination would be appropriate.
... But I don't think the true numbers are so convincing.
 
user559633
if the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, can we donate it to the puppy?
 
DSM
7:50 PM
Even so, I could see the merit in keeping such tags around as second-level descriptions; they're not so useful in themselves, but they provide information in combination with another tag. I don't know whether that's officially ruled out.
 
Those secondary tags are more useful to google searches than users answering questions. Not meta tags, but not something I would add to my favorites list or become an expert in either.
 
I've seen it used for proc freq/tabulate/report statements as well in SAS
 
I use when I ask questions like "how do I keep poor people from using my app?"
7
OpenCV does not yet have a "top hat and monocle" detection module.
 
@Kevin then your mission should you choose to accept it... plays MI music...
 
@Kevin I really, really hope you don't have a hammer then ...
 
user559633
7:57 PM
rough draft of what would happen if we repurposed the leg the OP can't stand on:
 
user559633
 
user559633
@Kevin Solution: Only make it for iOS.
 
DSM
@tristan: that's not bad!
 
@tristan green eyed monster coming out there? :p
 
user559633
What is the green eyed monster?
 
user559633
7:59 PM
Is "green eyed monster" a Britishicism for body parts?
 
user559633
/me closes eyes and hopes not
 
@ZeroPiraeus Haha. Reminds me of an article I read about a camera that could detect if anyone blinked while you photographed them. It had an unfortunately high failure rate for asian users.
 
user559633
would have thought QA would have picked it up
 
That is unfortunate ...
 
Okay... getting to get a little close to standing on ice here.. let's be careful please fellas
 
8:01 PM
Seems like that would have been something really easy to test/fix before release.
 
user559633
yeah Jon, I felt uncomfortable with the image there too, even though it was nikon that was at fault :)
 
Tangentially related. this question is quite classy.
 
@tristan ty
 
user559633
Yeah, no worries.
 
If "Lord X Y" is better than "X Lord Y", then it stands to reason that "X Y Lord" would be the lowest rank.
 
8:03 PM
Hey!
 
DSM
Ha!
 
user559633
Oh great, incoming Lord XY Problems
 
Sorry @davidism, you can't mingle with sons of dukes or whatever. That's just how it is.
 
Vetinari disagrees with you Leonardo!
 
Mercurial is slow :(
 
8:04 PM
Counterpoint: it's not
 
Ironic, given its name.
 
@davidism is Reverse Polish Aristocracy :-)
 
@vaultah So's Mercury at room temperature... :)
 
Mercury is neat. I wish it wasn't so bad for you.
 
@Kevin I use to have it on my cereal... apparently not a good thing
 
user559633
8:07 PM
That explains quite a lot
 
@Kevin weird... how you went for the quick silver and I went for the room temperature... is the hive-mind suffering some connection issues!? :p
 
I'll give you credit @Kevin, that's the most creative insult related to my last name I've ever heard, and you probably weren't even thinking about that.
 
Fun fact. The phrase "mad as a hatter" came from old-timey hat makers, who would work many hours while exposed to fumes from mercury compounds. This would have deleterious effects on their mental health.
@davidism Haha, the thought did occur, but only after I submitted the message :-)
 
Well... it was fine for me... I'm a perfectly normal puppy... don't know what the issue is really... health and safety gone mad and all that...
 
Mercurial is by all accounts a strange name for a VCS, since that's the last thing I would want to be "capricious" in my toolchain
cbg all :)
 
8:09 PM
cbg
 
But it sounds cool, so everything else is secondary.
 
@tzaman yes... because "git" was such a better marketing choice :p
 
DSM
@Kevin: I was just skimming through the transcript, because I knew that fact and I thought I'd learned it in this chat room, but apparently not. :-/
 
well according to reports Linus is kind of a git so he may have named it after himself (j/k)
 
user559633
Yeah, actually I find the name git relatively fitting
 
8:11 PM
@DSM think I learnt it at school re: "Alice In Wonderland".... the "mad hatter" character.... etc...
 
user559633
I learned it from internet. I think probably wikipedia.
 
DSM
@JonClements: see, I somehow know I didn't know that fact a few years ago. I'm trying to figure out if I learned it from here or from something related to Once Upon a Time else.
 
@DSM I'm 60% sure I learned it from Batman The Animated Series
 
If you read it on the internet, it must be true.
And if you read "If you read it on the internet, it must be true" on the internet, that is also true.
 
user559633
8:13 PM
Oh great, now I don't know what to believe
 
Git is also a pronunciation/slang for "get", so it seems at lease a little relevant to an SCM.
 
user559633
As popularized by Lawrence the Television Field Service Worker: "Get the job done"
 
"Do the needful" for international audiences
 
Git'r'Done for the redneck crowd
 
@davidism So they could also have called it "pish" I guess?
 
user559633
8:19 PM
Would you guys play a barista RTS game?
 
You're 32 years late ;-)
 
user559633
@Kevin This one is about alcohol. Dispensing alcohol would get you fired in my video game.
 
user559633
Also, the bartender job as represented/popularized in Tapper is really dynamic to the gameplay dynamic that a barista experiences.
 
Ok, no alcohol. Then you're only 31 years late, owing to the rebranding "Root Beer Tapper"
 
user559633
8:23 PM
y r u brekin my <3
 
user559633
I need some mediocre job to represent in the job simulator I'm going to start working on in Unity3d
 
Ok, I admit that bartenders are not the same as baristas.
You are clear to go.
 
user559633
I was thinking maybe something like fruit ninja, but without the slicing and actually just monitoring a conveyor belt for substandard fruit (+ reports!!).
 
user559633
My fear is that the gameplay will be too exciting for American audiences.
 
sounds like a donald duck game on the C64
 
conveyor belt? 60 years too late? :-D
Granted, that's not a video game.
 
@tristan not sure if to be disappointed you searched for that, or ashamed it turns out that's not just a figment of my imagination... :(
 
user559633
i was hoping that donald duck was saving up the money for a gun a la "drinky crow gets a job" liveleak.com/view?i=84c_1259299326
 
8:38 PM
But if the scientist are mathematicians, this solution will almost surely not work: it involves using and adding numbers greater than $3$, so errors are bound to occur. — Benoît Kloeckner 12 hours ago
 
Hi
I'm new here
So this is the python chat room awesome
 
@Kevin You just need to find a classic RTS about english majors to make it work.
 
user559633
@QuestionC So, like my barista RTS then
 
user559633
Just add in a gameplay dynamic of calling in assistance from parents
 
8:42 PM
cbg
 
Maybe a Portland-themed Papers Please.
 
I'm making a game right now that somewhat like a RPG
I could use much help
if anyone is interested
 
user559633
@QuestionC Occupation: TALL BIKE RIDER
 
user559633
What are you writing the game in?
 
Python of course
 
8:44 PM
There was this pretty good series on SA where these guys would play a level in Cooking Mama then actually make and eat the food, with steps along the way about how to do it.
 
I'm still somewhat learning
 
user559633
Using PyGame or some other library?
 
@Stormy this is super off-topic for the chatroom, but I was actually just thinking about needing a new pet project. Do you wanna link the remote repo?
 
sure
PyGame
 
8:48 PM
I'm using PyGame to make the game
and sure I would like a link
 
No I mean.... Where are you hosting your repo?
Github/Bitbucket are the big ones
if you need general help, I'm actually looking for a pet project right now and I have some time to look at it. If you have a specific question then you're probably better-suited to asking a question on the main site
 
I haven't even done anything like that yet, I still working on the basics of the game
gyazo.com/903b15595c4486c8ab90fbb010f6851b That is a picture of my project so far I'm still working on it
it may suck but I am only 14 :P
 
Don't let your age be an excuse -- make something good
Source control it and put it on github or somewhere, then get me a link
 
Alright
 
I'll be happy to take a look
 
8:50 PM
ok
its alittle messy
 
that's what code review is for: don't worry
 
that screenshot looks cool at least :P
 
yeah it does :D
Way cooler than its predecessor, "lightest dark," which of course is the same game just with inverted color schemes.
 
DSM
I like "brightest dark" for some reason. I'll save that for something, probably a Contiguous Kittens album.
 
8:54 PM
I'ts still glitching
When you button hover the you cant see the text
 
Needs an even darker, edgier name: Darkest Dark.
 
and of course the whole thing fits in a pastebin
because Python
but yeah, you should start breaking out portions of it that can be reused or may need frequent modification, and make them their own files
 
Well, actually because it's only a menu, but yeah, Python.
 
DSM
@davidism: I thought Darker than Black was a great title.
 
@DSM too bad it's already taken
by an excellent anime, though.
(at least the first series, holyshit that second series blows)
 
DSM
8:57 PM
That's why I said "was", not "would be". ;-)
 
Seasons 1.5 and 2 were great. crosses arms
 
I have the main functions that are important like PlayerEntity and ItemEntity in there own files
 
@Stormy do you have a github or a bitbucket account? You need to get that source controlled.
 
this is really my first big project
 
Picture this: a core developer approved a faulty patch from a contributor. Whose screw-up is this?
 
DSM
8:58 PM
I liked the worldbuilding and the characters. The plot I could take or leave; wasn't why I watched.
 
@vaultah core developer -- it's his/her job to guarantee everything is perfect.
 
Yeah, the immediate plot wasn't that great in the second season, but I liked the direction the whole thing was going.
 
@vaultah Clearly both, but the committer more than the contributor imo. The better question is, why are we apportioning blame?
 
Yea, my first thought is to blame the system like a hippy.
 
@QuestionC Occupy Github!
 
DSM
9:00 PM
A patch I submitted to a major Python development project once made a certain seemingly unrelated task orders of magnitude slower, so my patch had to be reverted..
 
@Stormy if you DON'T have a github or bitbucket account, now would be the time. Decide whether you want to use Git or Mercurial and your job for today is to learn version control.
 
This is a pretty recent glitch I need to figure out what is causing the text to be vanish
I know
I'm going to make one
 
Thank you for your answers @AdamSmith @tzaman
 
Roll back?
 
9:01 PM
I personally prefer Mercurial, but Git is the more popular (and some would argue better) of the two. They're remarkably similar, and are accepted as the de facto standards.
 
It has a cool run button now, so it must be better.
 
Tab indenting?
 
The return of sshashank124 Sigh
 
@vaultah There was another edit after.
 
The de facto standards before them for almost a decade have been CVS and Subversion. They're simpler, but do less cool stuff.
 
9:03 PM
It was probably a clash with my edit, that fixed more things.
 
@ShotgunNinja I only prefer Git because I've never really used hg
I can't hardly say one is better than the other, just that I know one, I don't know the other, and I know they do approximately the same thing
"if it's not broke..." and all that
 
I started with Mercurial because a coworker at my last job had a Mercurial Bitbucket he was using, and I basically inherited it.
 
Oh, fine then @MartijnPieters
 
Well, I'm stuck
 
@ShotgunNinja I've watched a couple breakdowns on Youtube on the differences between. I remember one saying that Mercurial doesn't let you rewrite history (e.g. rebase) like Git does
 
9:06 PM
I don't really know what is causing the problem it way working before
 
I was using CVS and SVN originally
 
Mercurial has TortoiseHg, Git has nothing to rival that at least on Linux.
 
(that's going back a bit though)
 
There's some Git client on windows
I don't use it though
 
but mostly use both mercurial and git now
 
9:06 PM
Yeah, as for rebasing, Mercurial typically prefers a fix-forward approach
 
(I don't use TortoiseHg either)
 
Instead of changing history, it acknowledges a change as a future event and moves on from there, basically.
 
I tend to favor fork, branch, change, rebase into master, pull-request since it's cleaner for the original maintainer
 
I rebase in Mercurial all the time, it has the exact same usage pattern as in git
 
really?
 
9:08 PM
arghhh... just 23 hours left until votes close
 
Maybe I should spend some time getting to know it, then
 
as long as you don't rebase commits that other people already have, then you're fine, and have cleaner logs, but that's the same rule in git
You can also take the "always merge" approach in git, there's nothing stopping you.
 
Like I said: I only prefer git because I've never used hg. I'd have to spend a week or two using hg to make an informed opinion
but I prefer to keep my source control on the command line -- I don't do much graphical editing at all anymore -- so TortoiseHg is definitely not a selling point for me personally
 
fixed it
 
same, tortoise is just really handy for helping visualize the commits
 
9:11 PM
git log --oneline --color --graph
shoot, wait, is it --oneline or --one-line?
 
yep, hg glog as well
 
it's git logg for me :D
 
+1 everything that Adam is saying. I prefer git for all the same reasons and with the same caveats.
 
just annoying when you muck something up in git... reversing a few changes is errr, fun :)
 
@JonClements absolutely. I COMPLETELY fubar'd a repo I was working on about a month ago
 
9:13 PM
gitk is a visual tool for git
 
yeah, but it looks like beans
 
ended up just copying the whole working directory elsewhere, rebased to a commit before I screwed everything up, copied it all back over the top, and making a new commit
 
@davidism Heh, yeah.
 
@Adam after 10 minutes - I thought - "I don't have time for this" - restored it from a back up
 
tortoisesvn is great imho... tortoisegit less so
 
9:14 PM
(and that's absolutely not the correct way to be approaching SC)
 
yup
 
tortoisegit doesn't exist for linux, which always baffles me
I don't think tortoisesvn does either
 
because of tortoisesvn I still use svn as my primary sc
tortoisesvn definately has one
 
What prompted them to make Hg work on Linux but not SVN or Git?
I'm not even sure if they're the same devs.
 
tortoisesvn definately has a version for linux ...
 
9:17 PM
If it's not in the AUR, it doesn't exist: aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=tortoise
 
@davidism oh... is there a cute-puppy-lib ?
 
There's an entire Puppy Linux distro.
rbrb
 
rbrb
 
The new Blur's album is quite good
 
Blur have done a new album?
 
9:24 PM
Question: Do I always have to write *(self, .. * in the method of some class?
 
no
you could also write (s,...
or (f,...
 
Yeah, but without the reference argument
 
or (cls,...
or @staticmethod
 
ok you're very funny sir
 
DSM
@Catgocat: if you were trying to do syntax highlighting, use the backtick, e.g. (self, ...
 
9:27 PM
not funy thats what it is
 
@DSM Ok because in the Javascript room it's **
 
DSM
Really? It's not italics?
 
@JonClements Yep. Apparently they recorded some of the songs in 2013
 
class B:
   @staticmethod
   def no_args():
       print "OK!!!"
 
@DSM Oh I guess I use ** for code too :p
@JoranBeasley thx
 
9:30 PM
class C:
    @classmethod
    def class_method(cls):
          print "I am",cls
    def normal_method(self):
         print "I am",self
and it sounds like you realize self is just convention and you can name it pretty much what you want (but 99.9% of programmers use self and cls for those 2
 
and the the .1% got taken out and shot? :p
 
I've been using because_python_is_explicit_except_when_its_not instead of self. Do you think that's too long?
 
no, that's just not explicit enough
 
Explicit Is Better Than Implicit
I should have added more caps
 
9:33 PM
Sounds like my solicitor putting simple terms into sentences to justify their money
 
capitals letters are BAD.
 
ltns @Florian - how goes it?
 
STOP SHOUTING.
 
(puts on sunglasses)
 
@JonClements oh dear
are you mod yet?
 
9:35 PM
no one will know until all the votes are in
and if I were mod - why would that be an "oh dear"...? :p
 
that was related to this, sorry
I've seen documents that could be shortened from 30 to 2 pages
and I mean technical documents, not mumbo jumbo for marketing people
 
By removing everything other than the summary?
I have seen a lot of them ~ every single one in school.
 
I used to edit my boss's emails to remove the junk words. He was one of those who would type "I think we have a bug situation" instead of "There's a bug."
 
yeah... but school is not business
 
In India, school is business.
 
9:43 PM
Whyy.. Why don't you review my patch... 😩 I don't even ask to accept it...
I guess I should post this ^ to the bug tracker
 
Make it longer and rambling and it could be really funny.
 
Probably will need more emojis as well
 
"Why don't you review my patch? I'm really sorry about that time we were talking in the hall and my phone went off and I answered it and ignored you. That was rude. And that time I took your parking spot. That, too. But please, please review my patch. I'm in therapy twice a week now instead of one, all because I think you hate me because you won't review my patch."
 
Air
Hey you know what's a great idea? A fixed-with export format disguised as csv! See, we separate fields with commas and we quote fields that contain commas, but we don't escape quotes in fields! AWESOME
People will have so much fun trying to read our files, guys, so much fun. Hours and hours of fun.
 
DSM
9:54 PM
@Air: that does sound like fun, you lucky dog!
 
@DSM wait... there's another dog in here... growls
 
Air
This whole experience is only made better by Excel having any part in it at all
 
DSM
Any chance you can access an "original-ish" version?
 
Air
That would be the database this agency exported from
 
@vaultah still not quite getting what's with the new avatar per log in?
 
DSM
10:09 PM
We could probably get Kevin to write a userscript to make sure that we only see one of the older ones. That sounds like the sort of thing he'd be good at, based on his previous work. :-)
 
Air
Anyone used any Tekla Software products here?
 
@DSM Nope - he needs to get my low orbit tea cannon and terraforming Mars done first... don't add more to his TODOs!
 
Air
I'm gnashing my teeth and not sure if I should blame the company or the users. Probably the users.
 
@Air I remember once my manager saying "right guys, we're using Visual SourceSafe"
head desk
 
@JonClements umm, what do you mean? The explanation for that is here...
 
10:14 PM
@vaultah I'm just curious if it's deliberate? (on your behalf that is)
 
His ISP assigns a dynamic IP, and he doesn't have an email associated with the account, so the IP hash is used for the gravatar.
 
Ahh, well, I like this feature :) @JonC
 
not sure if I'd be comfortable being seen as potentially a different user each time, but, oh, okay :)
 
DSM
Time to escape. Rhubarb for all!
 
10:19 PM
This is my home identicon (since the IP address is static there) ^
rbrb @DSM
 
up to you if you prefer to "stay mysterious" :)
 
did somebody say blame the users?
 
MasterControl said that maybe
 
cbg all
 
What can you guys teach me
 
10:24 PM
Shoot it's 1am, rhubarb all!
 
rbrb @vaultah
welcome @Christian and wb @Jeremy
 
Thanks Jon. Just taking a look to see how this part of the site is used.
 
we just chat really - some "how is life" and some "how do I do X in Python" questions galore :)
 
or how do I do X in Java, R, Ruby, or Monty Python style
 
@Christian are you able to tangle while programming - that'd be an impressive skill!
 
10:35 PM
I make it a point to make all my programming tangled. :)
 
lmao
how'd you find this room if I may ask?
 
I swear I came in here once and someone had declared it pig latin day
 
I was just looking through what the various badges are, and one of them mentioned chat. And I thought "there are chat rooms on Stackoverflow?" So, here I am taking a look.
 
cool
I just used a python web scraper and I found this link
 
@JGreenwell, Pig latin should be used in all Python naming conventions. Should be part of PEP8.
 

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