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3:00 PM
do a couple of PRs
 
Preferably one that doesn't involve writing swathes of C++, none of you have done anything to deserve my C++ being forced upon you.
 
@MattPrelude hopefully php-src isn't written in C++
 
or C
I can write C, but it's ugly.
 
@MattPrelude otherwise, doc PRs
 
http://thecodinglove.com/post/112046764490
The coding love
After hours of coding without testing and it works as expected on first try
kbironneau
1424876443
 
3:00 PM
what if we had something like use Symfony\Component\Console\\* for everything under \Console
 
@MattPrelude There's other types of C?
 
@FlorianMargaine I can do doc PRs
@Danack There's C written by people who write C, and C written by people who wrote C for 2 years at college.
 
@MattPrelude ask @salathe where you can start
 
Hi @salathe, where can I start? :D
 
The college thing is me
I wrote a floppy disk based robot fighting multiplayer game
It was quite shit
@Patrick if an interface suffix is the only problem you have with the php league then its hardly a concern. Apparently were elitist exclusionary yet trying to take over every package (which contradicts with elitist?) scumbags who want to force spaces down your throat. But beyond that we have some cracking code which a lot of smart people are contributing to. Smack them in your list next to Klein and container links
 
3:04 PM
Oh, I remember playing that. The controls were quite simple
 
If you do OAuth we have you covered too
 
@PhilSturgeon interface suffix?
 
(Earlier chat. Message bounced)
 
as in IAmInterface?
 
3:05 PM
Yeah @Patrick add my oauth package!11111 :P
 
Fig chose that and we're copying them for league stuff for the sake of it
@PeeHaa you accidentally hit 1 a few times
 
Nope not even accidentally
 
Oh then you're and idiot?
 
Why?
 
3:07 PM
Environmental factors? Upbringing? Hard to say.
 
@PhilSturgeon yeah that won't be an issue to keep something out. Just a little pet peeve of mine. I'll go through the list and add the ones that fit. If you got too much time on your hands feel free to make a PR :)
 
Will do :)
 
@PhilSturgeon Must be the environment. I have been like this since you entered chat
3
 
@PeeHaa well florian made a ticket regarding auth/oauth... So I guess that would be an option? :)
 
/me boooos
:)
 
3:09 PM
@PeeHaa I've noticed a bit of a theme with you yeah.
 
I'll try to rep as many regulars as possible. Now if someone is feeling like writing a sane session package... ;-)
 
@PhilSturgeon You have to remember @PeeHaa is rarely sober.
 
@FlorianMargaine such an idiotic design
 
Me neither but that USUALLY makes me happier, not bitter
 
3:11 PM
@ircmaxell complain to Phil
 
I do, weekly
 
Dunno if I could class @PeeHaa as bitter. I guess this is maybe a circumstance of textual miscommunication
 
personally I don't really care... it's the same as tabs/spaces argument imho.
 
@FlorianMargaine No....it makes it harder/uglier to write code that depends on interfaces compared to depends on classes.
Which makes it harder to write good code - it's not a religious thing like tabs/spaces.
 
alias all the things
 
3:13 PM
@FlorianMargaine disagree there
 
Makes mental note to add this to my talk, and to stand in front of Phil when I get to that part.
3
 
Hmm. So interfaces are overused?
 
@Fabor no, the suffix is
 
Oh right
phew thought I was going nuts.
 
I don't care that it's an interface, I care about what it means
 
3:14 PM
@Fabor underused.....most code should depend on interfaces. But when it's easier to depend on a class.
something something the interface is the platonic ideal of the object.
 
Obligatory Sensible Interfaces link.
 
interfaces should describe behavior, while classes are specific behavior. If you find yourself naming an interface the same as a class, then that's a sign you didn't need the interface in the first place
 
I see
 
@DaveRandom that's so true, a lot of people do that. thanks!
 
@ircmaxell did you ever have a look at my tutorial by chance? If so, do you agree with the use of interfaces in there?
 
3:16 PM
@ircmaxell naah , real developer just write class Classname implements IClassname
=)
 
Like a jam doughnut mold. The doughnut needs jam, just choose how to get it in there.
 
Too ambiguous needs class ClassnameImpl implements IClassname /s
 
@Ocramius why can't you update your interfaces or implementations to have compatible method signatures?
 
user2620028
Guys i am faced with the problem of generating a dynamic number of php inputs inside a form at runtime. Is the best solution to this dynamically creating and naming the inputs with php? or is there a more elegant solution to this problem?
 
"php inputs"?
 
3:19 PM
<input />
 
<input name="foobar[]" />
 
user2620028
Florian i am tired lol you know what i mean
 
that's just HTML inputs then.
 
user2620028
yeah input inside of a form to post to a php file to handle it
 
well not really @HatterisMad you could mean php input/output streams
 
user2620028
3:20 PM
That is true and was not thinking of that when writing the sentence. i will give you that one
 
Wait am I being blamed for interface suffixes now?
 
Should I get my pitchfork?
 
@PhilSturgeon No, you're being blamed for being an ass when people point out the problem with them.
 
Hey, who owns gophp7.org?
 
15 mins ago, by Phil Sturgeon
Oh then you're and idiot?
 
3:22 PM
@Fabor ... you have one?
 
user2620028
@FlorianMargaine you don't?
 
@HatterisMad ... I'm not a farmer ...
 
@FlorianMargaine Always gotta be prepared for a good angry-mob scenario. It's less a pitchfork and more a regular fork though.
 
ah. Regular fork.
 
lol @ gophp7.org
 
3:23 PM
I was thinking this
 
user2620028
:( Actually has pitchfork and is sad now
 
I personally couldn't give less of a shit if you paid me
 
@FlorianMargaine Correct. That's a pitchfork. And this is an angry mob.
It's not a real angry mob without a pitchfork.
 
user2620028
or scythe
 
user895378
3:24 PM
morning
 
Mornrey
 
@Fabor Does it count as an angry mob if it has pitchforks but no torches?
 
@Danack that was nothing to do with interface suffixes. It was to do with @PeeHaa trolling me again
 
@rdlowrey mogguh
 
3:25 PM
@MattPrelude Depends on daytime vs nighttime.
 
@PhilSturgeon Why the fuck do you think you are that important?
 
class NightTimeAngryMob extends AngryMob implements TorchUse
{
    ...
}
 
When did I say I was important?
 
You seem to think I was trolling you
 
:P
 
3:26 PM
@ircmaxell I think Larry Garfield owns all the gophp*.com domains
 
Note: not everything is about phil sturgeon
 
Yeah I think there's been an error of understanding here. A) @PeeHaa is jovial and doesn't really troll. B) Phil didn't call people an idiot in relation to interface suffixes.
 
I know shocker rite?
 
I said "we've got an OAuth server" and you said "use my OAuth code!!!1122 :p"
 
He does have oAUth code.
 
3:28 PM
OAtuh.
 
@PhilSturgeon Yes?
 
So is that about you somehow?
 
@PhilSturgeon ooooh the misunderstanding. PeeHaa does have oauth code :)
 
@Fabor That is the impl not the original lib but yeah
 
3:28 PM
hahahahahaha
 
it wasn't a sarcastic answer to your message
 
Well then I apologize!!
 
17 mins ago, by Fabor
Dunno if I could class @PeeHaa as bitter. I guess this is maybe a circumstance of textual miscommunication
 
Sorry, not the first shitty comment people have given me for daring to mention the league
Sorry all
 
we're fine with the league afaik
well, I am
 
3:29 PM
The league?
 
I like it if a group comes forth and wants to make great code
 
@PhilSturgeon It's ok. Just keep it in mind before you start jumping up and down again :-)
 
But yeah I don't give a Dan about interface suffixes either
 
Sounds like some kind of secret society.
 
@MattPrelude it is
 
user895378
3:30 PM
I give lots of Dans about everything.
 
Will do @PeeHaa. Eating hat.
 
@MattPrelude it's his project .. a collection of few php librarties
 
@PhilSturgeon :)
 
@rdlowrey morning
 
good code quality , limited usefulness
 
3:30 PM
hahaha
 
(It's not mine I'm a contributor)
 
user895378
@PhilSturgeon I think everyone respects someone who can say this ... at least I hope so because I have to do it a lot when I'm wrong all the time :)
 
user895378
Did the proposed "upgrading extensions to PHP7" document ever happen? I find myself in need of reference materials.
 
I say it all the time, still no raspact
:P
 
Fortunately I am never wrong.
 
3:33 PM
@rdlowrey wiki.php.net/phpng-upgrading most of it is here.
 
actually, I take it back
 
@PhilSturgeon do you guys have a package for sessions?
 
@Fabor it's because you never say anything substantial
 
Apart from the bits which aren't.
 
@FlorianMargaine Bingo
<-- fence sitter
 
3:33 PM
some of the newer additions to the php league seem to be somewhat shitty: github.com/thephpleague/container/blob/master/src/Container.php
 
@Patrick not yet
 
user895378
@Danack thanks.
 
I'm what you call a proprietor of peace. Arguably not a great characteristic but I don't ever really annoy people.
 
is there anyone, somewhere...here maybe... comfortable with postgresql & postgis extension pls... need some help...
 
@tereško I was a bit fan of that container as were many. It's a LOT quicker than the competition and it's got a simple interface. Can't speak for code quality. Get on our mailing list would you?
 
3:34 PM
@Julo0sS Ask and you may receive an answer.
 
Hey @rdlowrey! What do you think about this comment? github.com/php/php-src/pull/1119/files#r25340010
 
Feedback is welcome :)
 
@rdlowrey you might like fast zpp if you're migrating too
 
@Patrick Sounds like a gap in the market, you may have to build one.
 
@PhilSturgeon I probably will, when I leave my current job .. it has been eating up all of my free time
 
user895378
3:35 PM
@FlorianMargaine yes, fast zpp is great. I actually like that better than the existing slow zpp API.
 
@Fabor still waiting for yours :)
 
also, I cannot say anything about that "containers" usability , since there are no examples in the readme file
only saw the code, but are you certain that it is a injector and not a locator, @PhilSturgeon ?
 
@rdlowrey same
 
@rdlowrey If you can, I'd suggest enabling the CFLAGS setting of -Wall if you haven't already. The biggest difficulty with migrating an extension was the subtle changes to somethings which might compile correctly but also be completely wrong.
 
@Patrick lol.
 
3:36 PM
I'm tryin to build a small model with "basic" data, which are "points" and "polygons". The problem is that I just can't get any result, I just get errors, when I try to call pgis functions like ST_Area or ST_Distance on them... I think the problem comes from 1. my postGresql configuration (I'm new to this manager) and 2. my usage of these data types
 
@Fabor zend and sf2 have one
 
@FlorianMargaine sf2 has one big of a mess http component. not sure about zend. sf2 is the reason I want to write my own :)
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah there's a few out there but I don't know enough to know what makes a good/secure one.
 
public vars etc... no thanks :(
 
@Fabor you'll never know if you don't write one
 
3:37 PM
@Fabor so, my question isn't really clear, i should show how it goes with code, but that'll be too long and I'll be considered as spammer in this room...^^ but most errors are "unknown table" 42P01 and sometimes function () does not exist... but it does
 
Aye
@Julo0sS Sounds like an obvious error.
 
@Fabor ^^
tbh I'm a bit confused with postgresql too...
 
@Fabor come on, make a session lib for the league
it would be great for your CV
 
Well you know what they say... always give in to peer pressure.
 
@tereško it does both. It used to be called orno/di but we had an old di package so they called it container. I've seen chats in here about container being used wrong and we might be doing that.
 
3:39 PM
@PhilSturgeon what's necessary to accept a lib in the league?
 
@rdlowrey Also, if you have any code that loops over hashtables with zend_hash_has_more_elements_ex and now need to change to the new method, putting in #IFDEFS inside the function is a nightmare. For any function that does it, it's probably worth having two completely separate functions. I think the changes to Imagick are complete - so github.com/mkoppanen/imagick/tree/phpseven could be a reference.
 
@PhilSturgeon look at auryn for "container done right"
imHo.
 
<3 Auryn
 
Whose going to phpuceu?
Brb booking this hotel room
 
Open invitation @Jimbo? Very forward of you.
 
3:41 PM
@Fabor do it, and make a version without interface suffixes that I can use in the tutorial ;)
 
@PhilSturgeon another advantage of auryn is that its author has beautiful amazing eyes /cc @rdlowrey
 
His eyes are also surrounded by beautiful.
 
@SammyK someone in this room owns .org
I just can't rembmer who
 
user895378
@SammyK TBH I don't see how that's any different from any other PHP function that performs IO. The non-deterministic runtime is a necessary prerequisite to ensure you're actually getting good random data.
 
@Patrick Will mull it over.
 
3:42 PM
Tech Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Tech Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
 
@ircmaxell Not me! :)
 
how do you post images on stackoverflow rooms pls?
 
@Danack glanced over it… some things are nice… but that's e.g. weird: github.com/mkoppanen/imagick/blob/phpseven/… you use KEY_VAL when you just need VAL. Why?
 
@rdlowrey Yeah, so probably nothing needs to change then :)
 
3:43 PM
@PeeHaa? @Danack? @DanLugg?
 
@ircmaxell You rang?
 
Hi, is there a php library that replicates filezilla's functions ? send, create download multiple files and directories, change rights ....
 
Nope - I thought Salathe?
 
user895378
@SammyK Right. You don't need to change any code on the basis of that comment.
 
21 mins ago, by ircmaxell
Hey, who owns gophp7.org?
 
3:44 PM
@salathe
 
@bwoebi Probably because that's what the upgrading article said to do, and it seems to work. I go look to see the difference.
 
@Danack well, there's no big difference… just fetching things you don't need
 
@bwoebi btw That code may actually be wrong (or at least ambiguously specced). It probably should be something more like:
num_elements = zend_hash_num_elements(Z_ARRVAL_P(param_array));

 for (element=0 ; element<num_elements ; element++) {
		pzval_outer = zend_hash_index_find(Z_ARRVAL_P(param_array), element);
	...
}
 
Might as well go grab gophp10.org ;-)
 
But possibly a BC break for that.
 
3:48 PM
@PhilSturgeon /cc @Fabor
 
The issue is that the code is assuming arrays are in order, but $foo[1] = 1; $foo[0] = 0' gives the 'out of order' iteration.
 
@Danack yep
@Jimbo But not usable before 2030? :-D
 
Hey
Does anyone here know the PHP F3 framework?
 
Morning. Any circleCI users here?
 
3:50 PM
@GabrielTomitsuka we know of it
but it's not all tht good of a framework
 
@AlmaDo yeah, im Minister of CI at my job. we use it so much i got a free tshirt
what you need?
 
@tereško Just noticed that. I'm no PHP guy, though.
 
@PhilSturgeon do you use codeception?
 
Will keep it in mind. Plan A) is to create something worthy.
 
@AlmaDo no, its all rails and go
 
3:51 PM
@bwoebi Gotta maintain BC, so never useable ;-)
 
@GabrielTomitsuka it's a clusterfuck of globally-scoped code
 
I see. Anyway. It was about Guzzle timeouts in circleCI (while on dev machines all is fine), and guzzle is part of codeception
 
that guzzle is just curl wrapper, but still for some reason in circleCI it's failing.
 
I joined a company for doing the version 2 of their core app. This time, with Node.js (I <3 Node.js). They are currently using F3 and I don't have a clue on where are the globals stored. For being serious, I don't know which are the paths for the AJAX calls.
 
3:53 PM
@GabrielTomitsuka look at the http requests...
 
@FlorianMargaine The problem: They only have a mobile version(PhoneGap for iOS, Android, WP) right now and I still didn't got access to it's source code.
Obviously, I still didn't find the AJAX router on the PHP code.
 
@Fabor here is a short explanation about my problem with PostGreSQL and PostGIS, if anyone has an idea that would be appreciated... thx chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/71671/postgresql-postgis
 
@Julo0sS *PostgreSQL
 
@GabrielTomitsuka pOstGrEsQL! :P
 
@AlmaDo literally just timeouts? Can you mock guzzle as a dependency and use expects, or do you actually NEED to hit the HTTP service? is it integration tests?
 
4:00 PM
@ircmaxell me
 
if the server is running locally then it shouldnt be timing out.
 
@PhilSturgeon it's codeception. no mocks there
 
@salathe can it be used for good as opposed to just fun?
 
4:16 PM
Oh, but there is harm. You yourself are a good example. You have no idea what MVC is, but you believe that you understand it and keep spreading bad practices to other newbies. Like a fucking infection of stupid. — tereško 6 secs ago
 
eih… your tone isn't really appropriate…
 
@tereško definitely not cool.
 
I am just pissed
=/
 
@ircmaxell nice
 
4:19 PM
tho it really isn't overly useful, since you can only make a single file
 
still nice
 
I've added PHP 7 nightly build support. Try it with "php: 7" now! https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/2480#issuecomment-75988205
2
And travis appears to be suffering...
 
4:36 PM
it is startling that even dimitry doesn't immediately get the strict declare 1 or 0 and what effect that has in which file. Imho that shows that this approach requires a mind model too complex while programming
my 2 cents
 
oh I'm certain that Dmitry immediately gets it. He's just lobbying for the other RFC imho.
that's what it looks like, at least.
 
@beberlei Or that Zend has other business interests that are not aligned with putting strict scalars. e.g. they wouldn't be able to put them into Zend Server for time for PHP 7's release.
 
@Danack I doubt that's the issue…
 
@Danack zend server is just some additional extensions over a stock PHP imho, that can't be it. I understand Zeevs whole weak/coercive only point of view.
 
4:42 PM
@beberlei calling my patch "BC breaking" because if you turn on strict mode it behaves strictly shows that he either gets it and is being hyperbolic on purpose, or he really doesn't get anything about the proposal (meaning he hasn't even read it)
 
honestly playing around with the dual mode patch, it is not immediately obvios what the behavior is when you work with multiple files of different modes, it really requires opening up another stack in your mind, and that is what zeev doesnt want
 
I dunno - they seem to be really weirdly opposed to having them. Not just a "we think this isn't good" but "omg this needs to be stopped". Whenever I've seen people be like that, and their reasons seemed opaque at the time, it's always turned out that they had other reasons for making that decision. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@ircmaxell ah yes, the BC break argument is weird. Adding a line on top can obviously break BC, its up to the developer to decide ;)
but i must say, with the E_DEPRECATED only approach, even if thats just delaying the painful for some, the coercive RFC is much better now that they got rid of INI setting and such
 
@beberlei the problem is there's no alternative. His weak mode RFC can't possibly pass due to the BC breaks it pushes through (which are far from insignificant). So the only other options would be to allow scalar types that behave identical to ZPP with no rule changes or invent a new ruleset for userland types.
 
the current patch by francois is crashing still not E_DEPRECATE'ing like its in the rfc i think
i am waiting for the new patch
zeev did talk around my question why he didnt just repropose v1
 
4:44 PM
@beberlei That's actually an interesting point - but I think PHP developers need to get into the mindset of having multiple modes. E.g. currently some people are 'OO ALL THINGS' whereas sometimes all you really need is a couple of functions. A separate division between this "code casts as PHP", and "this code doesn't cast" seems like a good thing in some ways.
 
@beberlei strongly disagree. Hell, even PHPUnit and Symfony can't run their test cases due to their changes. So even if we E_DEPRECATE today, and E_RECOVERABLE in the future, even the bleeding edge tools/frameworks have non-trivial amounts of errors. Yet alone a normal untested application.
 
@ircmaxell tbh, we cant really evaluate this unless we have the patch to run on some phpunit testsuites
 
changing it to E_DEPRECATED doesn't make it less of a bad change. It just delays the badness. Which is even more scary...
 
hai
 
coupling the coercive rfc with zpp changes is weird, it could have just easily been two different RFCs
 
4:47 PM
so introduce a 4th type system into PHP in one RFC, to unify it down to 3 after in another?
 
I didn't know 3v4l done that ... how do you see which branches they support ?
 
@seldaek @klimpong @ircmaxell @nicholasruunu I've actually been considering the same thing. Give me a branch+revision and I'll look into it
 
@Danack WOOOHOOO
 
@ircmaxell no i mean, have the coercive RFC just use the current zpp rules. And then make an additional RFC to stricten the zpp rules.
 
@beberlei but that's way too weak for most people (given what most want)
 
4:49 PM
I think travis may be completely overloaded - my latest push hasn't started even though it's been 20 minutes.
 
everyone simultaneously adding php 7 support?
 
this is why C++ scares me
 
@ircmaxell but it would be exactly what you would get with the weak mode of your RFC
 
@Danack now yolo can stop building PHP 7 itself
 
@beberlei precisely, but I give people a strict alternative so they can still get what they want.
 
4:53 PM
that's cool
 
so if you want weak, you got it. You want strict, you got it. No BC concerns, no compromises. And it works togehter
 
also, wow, isn't Zeev's proposal basically what I proposed ages ago, except also affecting zpp (and thus breaking things?)
Did Zeev forget why trailing characters are allowed in numeric strings?
 
@Andrea And instead start shouting really loudly at people who break the overnight build!
 
@Andrea got a link?
 
@FlorianMargaine on wiki somewhere
@Danack hooray
> With the advent of PHP 5.0.x, a new parameter parsing API was introduced which is used by a large number of PHP functions. In all versions of PHP between 5.0.x and 5.1.x, the handling of integer values was very strict and would reject non-well formed numeric values when a PHP function expected an integer. These checks have now been relaxed to support non-well formed numeric strings
 

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