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3:00 PM
@AndyProwl 8, apparently.
 
TTT is dumb and you can win or stalemate just by picking random cells
 
@Puppy 8 best books? got it.
 
@Elvisjames not that it really matters here
 
anyway if you don't want to retrain use a neural network not an SVM
they can learn incrementally
 
3:00 PM
I can see how AI for that is terribly fascinating
 
well as an exercise...
 
@AndyProwl Just 8.
 
@AndyProwl Never needed any
 
:: Maybe Int
 
Well it's just for learning purpose.
 
3:01 PM
dunno maybe I'll write a thing that learns tictactoe
sounds like a funny thing to do in a coffee break
 
There's a spec and MSDN
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm not superawesome enough for not needing any
 
There isn't much to learn? Do you know Java?
 
Not really
 
Then you already know Java and by extension half of C#
 
3:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It actually started with the MENACE.
 
@CatPlusPlus Wait I wrote I don't really know Java
 
That's how trivial Java is
 
Matchbox Educable Noughts And Crosses Engine
 
Ah
cool
 
@Elvisjames wut
the hell
 
3:03 PM
I still think I should get a book
 
Just read some code
And write stuff
 
That approach tends not to work for me
 
C# in Depth is probably the best yes if you really want a boring programming book
 
Order placed
 
@BartekBanachewicz print("This is too boring even for a computer."); job done
 
3:07 PM
Beep boop get this fucking game away from me
Make an AI that can learn that TTT is shit
 
I'm still on level 18.
 
 x | x |
 o |   |
 o |   |
 
x | x | o
o |   |
o |   |
 
Speaking of boring books, WiX is on Packt free deal today
 
I write the board in the order of the moves made, so probably, {3,0,6,1}
 
user1804599
3:09 PM
ugh
 
user1804599
gvimdiff sets v:progname to "gvim"
 
then {3,0,6,1,2}
 
x | x | o
o | x |
o | |
 
seriously guys
 
Next one goes straight to bin
 
3:11 PM
yeah, murkdown is silly
 
goodbye o, it was nice playing you
 
there's only one way to play out that game
 
yep
 
user1804599
x | x | x | o
    o |   |
    o |   |
 
user1804599
I win.
 
3:11 PM
x already won
 
lol
 
Candy Box already did that
 
@CatPlusPlus Are you nervous today, darling?
Do you want me to prepare a cup of chamomile?
 
meh haskell's opencv bindings are shit
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus So I never said it, but. The page looks really clean, much better than the usual wiki format. That index page is spiffy, contains the logo in a nice clear way, the lines aren't too thick or abrasive, and just overall it's a very pleasant, simple page. Really great job. I need to learn how to make web pages like that at some point!
 
3:14 PM
guys, the links on the 404 pages on loungecpp.net are broken
 
pantoona made the style
 
is that intended?
 
@bluefog yes
 
oh :)
 
Nothing's broken
All links are checked for validity on build
 
3:16 PM
@bluefog only in subdirs
@CatPlusPlus check again!
your testing is inadequate sir
 
@BartekBanachewicz So?
 
that ^
 
@Jefffrey so I won't write a TTT learning app in my coffee break
 
user3010322
3:18 PM
Who's pantoona?
 
Feb 19 at 16:28, by Bartek Banachewicz
no, a real programmer gets job done despite shitty tools
 
@Jefffrey it's not a job. It was supposed to be a fun activity. If it's not fun, I'm not doing it.
duh
 
real programmers
DON'T HAVE FUN
Bartek.
 
Hate is fun in the long run vOv
 
have you ever seen a happy programmer?
have you?
 
3:19 PM
@AlexM. Sure, at 17:01
 
people are happy when code works
 
@MartinJames lol point taken
 
@BartekBanachewicz Programmers*
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, and when you said that I was talking about the snake game, which of course was a commercial game.
 
Feb 21 at 14:25, by FredOverflow
user image
Color's changed though
 
3:21 PM
@ThePhD Look at the starboard
 
user3010322
.... Ooooooooooooooooh.
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus I can only see the pinned things. 1600 x 900 resolution is not good.
 
user3010322
I've been really craving to get a new laptop just so I can have a 1920 x 1080 screen on it.
 
user3010322
Since 1600 x 900 has been killing me.
 
user3010322
But that'd be an EXTREME waste of money.
 
user3010322
3:22 PM
Since this one's still plenty good.
 
You can just buy a normal monitor
Fuck laptops
 
user3010322
Yeah, but I can't carry that normal monitor around.
 
user3010322
... I mean, I can. But nobody's going to let me sit in a classroom and set up a monitor and then get all cozy. :v
 
user3010322
:21744935 Well, to be fair. I carried around one of those big Sonic VG's in a duffel bag for a year when I was in my first year of college. I can carry it around, with all my other books, it's just... not really fun, though...
 
@ThePhD Yeah, get a monitor.
Also gives the benefit of dual monitors.
That way you can have porn on your other screen.
Oh whatever it is you kids do these days.
 
3:25 PM
Nobody watches porn anymore.
 
Get the Hololens
 
user3010322
Hololens?
 
THERE THE SITE HAS ZARRO BUGS NOW
5
 
Yololens
 
The holographic glasses
 
3:26 PM
@Jefffrey sigh. I'm not in the mood to meta-discuss stuff like that today. I'd rather create stuff than wank over design, tools and methodology.
 
@ThePhD lol do you have a 4" screen in that laptop
 
@BartekBanachewicz There was no need to continue the discussion anyway. That a checkmate.
 
I might actually have a semi-fun kinda-useful project
 
is it about server provisioning
 
3:27 PM
Can someone suggest me an undergrad college project?
 
Kinda
Game server launcher/monitor/console bridge
 
i wanted to do that for uwsgi
but then I didn't
 
Fuck uWSGI forever
 
meh.
I don't hate it
I got what I wanted from it last time
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus What do you mean by "Game server launcher" ?
 
3:30 PM
something that launches a game server, duh
 
Is uWSGI the python thingy?
 
Create an instance on DigitalOcean/AWS/Azure, build and deploy a Docker container with the server, launch it
 
@Jefffrey it's something like Wai
 
Yeah
 
@Jefffrey It's a clusterfuck that tries to do everything
For Python you're better off with Gunicorn
 
3:32 PM
So where do I start?
 
At the beginning
 
@CatPlusPlus I think I flipped a coin between gunicorn and uwsgi back in the day
anyway, about that MMORPG
 
uWSGI is shit, has shit documentation and should just fucking die already
 
I had a crazy idea
 
lol MMO
 
3:33 PM
Cat brace yourself now
 
user3010322
Don't do it Bartek.
 
user3010322
Our sides can't handle it.
 
you can't stop me now
I've gone too far
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
anyway I wanted to do a crazy thing and trust clients, and just use Redis to sync the world
 
3:35 PM
@CatPlusPlus With instrumentation, remoting, …?
 
Just remoting, to get consoles in one place
And config management
 
well I always wanted to write a tibia-like mmo
 
user3010322
Tibia?
 
those are fun
 
What about a MMORPG in command line?
 
3:36 PM
@Elvisjames you mean MUDs?
 
Feeling like I live under a rock because I have to google everything people refer to.
 
don't write all bold jesus
 
google "not bold"
all bold jesus
sorry
 
Is 'Notbold' on Steam?
 
how do I write in italics? I forgot.
 
3:39 PM
@ThePhD something that I could use Hate for
 
Don't either
 
@MartinJames wrap with single asterisks
 
well i kinda don't have any UI at all
2
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That was bold.
sorry
 
i mean fonts are technically ready because spritesheets work
but stuff like buttons and all that crap uh
 
user3010322
3:40 PM
Thanks to @CatPlusPlus slapping me with the trout of justice,
 
@BartekBanachewicz Are you gonna write a whole UI lib for hate
 
user3010322
I managed to properly separate out the responsibilities of my text renderer
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hhaha you think that's enough
 
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, what else do you need?
 
3:41 PM
Does MUD implement NLP?
 
layouting maybe, but that's simple
 
Layouting
Not really
Also variable width fonts
 
@CatPlusPlus not planned yet
maybe later
 
Monospaced UIs are shit
 
so what?
 
3:42 PM
Just use SDL_Font
 
 
I am not going to spend 6 months on font rendering because a cat online said so
 
Anyway you're probably better off integrating Chromium or something
 
I wrote a text renderer once
 
I didn't say you should write it
In fact you shouldn't
 
3:43 PM
@Jefffrey fuck sdl
@CatPlusPlus fuck vector fonts
 
true type fonts?
 
when I implement sprite atlases you'll be able to implement varying-width fonts
 
Bitmap fonts make really good scaleable UIs
 
github.com/rougier/freetype-gl and github.com/memononen/nanovg seems like good drop in stuff for rendering UIs
 
3:43 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Erm, all fonts are vectors.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not really
 
@EtiennedeMartel except those who aren't
 
@EtiennedeMartel pixmap fonts aren't
 
But bitmap fonts work only for sizes up to like 8pt
 
3:44 PM
At work, we call those "static" fonts.
 
@CatPlusPlus my company has released I dunno, over 50 games already, for different resolutions and dpis
and they all use bitmap fonts
 
They're basically a glorified sprite sheet.
 
They must be really good
 
@CatPlusPlus They look really good.
 
3:45 PM
Bitmap fonts you need to pregenerate for them to scale
 
and that's what we do.
Mostly starting with biggest and downscaling
 
It's a really good approach yes
Who needs localisation
 
@CatPlusPlus it's working rather well in practice.
@CatPlusPlus I am working on a localization feature at this moment and fonts aren't a problem in the slightest
 
lol
Try using a different alphabet
Or RTL
 
You can't have localization with monospaced fonts. You need a text shaper
 
3:47 PM
if by "lol" you mean "I have no idea how this is actually done", then yes
 
Or vertical scripts
 
bless harfbuzz
 
Bitmap fonts work for everything we need
 
user3010322
3:48 PM
@Pris That looks beautiful!~
 
"Yeah sure fonts are no problem but you just have to ignore 80% of the world no biggie"
 
and you're apparently trying to tell me that if I tried to used them in some different scenarios, they wouldn't work
 
@BartekBanachewicz So does a diet of ants and worms.
3
 
@CatPlusPlus Our games are sold in a lot of countries, japan included. And they sell.
 
user3010322
@Pris Harfbuzz has been hard for me to work with.
 
user3010322
3:48 PM
And I haven't been able to get fontconfig to compile properly with VC++ ever.
 
@MartinJames >>Implying programmers leave on time
 
Anyway, really, if you know better @Cat that's great
 
Translated to Japanese? With monospaced fonts? lol
 
do tell me how you have successfully integrated Chromium to do a 2D game next time
 
You know what's worse than a guy committing logical fallacies? One that misinterprets logical fallacies.
 
3:50 PM
You're such a dick, Bartek.
 
@ThePhD Yeah its not very obvious how to do the text shaping / layout stuff. I used ICU, harfbuzz, some lib to do line breaks and freetype... took me awhile to get it working.
 
@Jefffrey haha
 
user3010322
@Pris ICU to translate the unicode?
 
Text rendering is crucial to proper localisation support and it's not easy
Pretending you can get by with a crappy workaround to not having a proper text renderer is silly
 
3:50 PM
It looks good visually because I used signed distance fields to generate the glyphs. SDFs are amazing, they don't get pixely when you zoom in and out
 
some popcorn-worthy zealotery going on or what?
 
@CatPlusPlus because you said so?
 
laff
Yes because I said so
 
yeah, way to go.
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees lol, on those sites with an access-control system and keycards, the queue of paid-by-the-15-minutes contractors at the swipe station around 16:59 is pretty awesome:)
 
3:51 PM
Not because you ignore half of the scripts in the world
 
user3010322
@Pris Signed distance fields? Tell me more.
 
@CatPlusPlus Who cares if I do? Maybe my requirements allow me to do that
 
@ThePhD iirc I used ICU to get the font script and to split the text into separate runs to support LTR and RTL text. You have to pass harfbuzz that information
 
maybe I don't need that functionality
 
It's the same category of problems as date/time with "it works for my timezone!"
 
3:52 PM
you insisting on introducing a vastly more complicated and annoying solution without a real reason is dumb and silly and unrealistic
 
lol
I gave you a real reason
 
I gave you a real life example of the technique used in a real-world applications that make actualy money and get hundreds of thousands of users
 
user3010322
@Pris Oh, I don't have script detection for a string yet in my libraries.
 
And here we go with "i'm realworld man"
 
gamedev.txt
 
3:53 PM
Imagine all the people leaving living as one
 
@Elvisjames living?
 
@CatPlusPlus and what did you end up with your amazing embedded chromium?
 
@Elvisjames I liked it before.
 
With all your fuckign snobistic approach you've ended up with a dead project
 
Not reinvented wheel that already supports the shit I'm talking about?
 
3:54 PM
you haven't done anything
you haven't released a product
it's moot.
 
user3010322
But I do have the basics for script detection!
 
you are not real world enough, cat
 
@ThePhD SDFs are a transform you can apply to a rasterized glyph. Then you can use a shader to control font thickness or add glows/outlines. Its really cool
 
if you haven't built anything on your amazing infrastructure it's useless.
 
user3010322
@Pris I think I've heard of this technique.
 
3:55 PM
you don't know how hard things are out there, in the real world
 
@Jefffrey I wanted to find out so I punched a tree. real world is hard as hell
 
@Jefffrey no, you can't get the design you've used into anything usable
 
@rlemon lol
 
wanking over great designs is really pathetic
2
 
@ThePhD Splitting the text into runs is messed up. There are bunch of complicated rules for text that runs in both directions... like if you have arabic or hebrew embedded in english or vice versa.
 
3:56 PM
@BartekBanachewicz How is that even relevant
 
@Jefffrey and so are you, making snarky comments
 
I don't care about making shit I'm not getting paid for
 
@CatPlusPlus OTOH you'll get neck-deep into a discussion about things you're not paid for despite the fact you haven't really the thing you're talking about to do anything
 
guys, whenever you have an argument
 
@BartekBanachewicz I see a bit of irony here
 
3:56 PM
remember about the immensity of the universe
 
@AlexM. you are like this?
 
30 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Jefffrey sigh. I'm not in the mood to meta-discuss stuff like that today. I'd rather create stuff than wank over design, tools and methodology.
 
and how localized and small our problems are
I wonder if we matter
 
we do
each and everyone of us matters
 
@AlexM. Nothing matters
 
3:57 PM
unfortunately
 
@CatPlusPlus see, that's a difference between wanking over designs and discussing them reasonably for me
whether you are actually thinking about making something work, or just talking for the fun of it
 
There's a difference between doing things properly and not
 
there's a difference between doing things or not doing them, too
 
State of the fucking industry dot txt
Me doing things or not is not relevant
 
3:58 PM
in your case, you are not-doing things properly
amazing
unprogramming (.txt)
also if you were standing near I'd just laugh at your face for that idealized meaning of "properly"
 
cripes
 
here looked at me properly achieving nothing
 
Real World Bartek
 
I did nothing, properly!
 

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