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11:09 AM
grätingz.
 
@AlexM. I wonder what kind of hardware you would have to have to get that rendered in reasonable FPS.
 
yeah, it probably won't happen soon
but at least it's good to know a generally available game engine is able to render something like that
so it's sort of like making the first step
 
11:35 AM
does the Standard define different linkage rules for primitive namespace-scope variables compared to UDTs?
 
@Puppy I don't think so.
 
user3010322
12:14 PM
Has anyone ever wrote a LineTo / FillWith API?
 
user3010322
Like the Canvas API?
 
user3010322
@Puppy I remember that.
 
user3010322
Ruined my day entirely. I didn't know which to reject, either, or why it gave it twice with the same parameters.
 
Ell
ahhh
I don't understand why cors won't work
 
12:26 PM
the more I learn about git, the more I like it
git remote prune is cool
 
@Rapptz lol
 
Ell
1:08 PM
lol. Look at the footer message ghaziabad.nic.in
 
1:19 PM
> This web site is optimized for java enabled Netscape4.0 above, IE4.0 above and 800x600 monitor resolution
> java enabled
 
@Rapptz heh (also, the Huffman coding thing another comment suggests is actually a kind of good idea)
 
Ugh the new Dropbox icon is so terrible, I can't tell if it's syncing or not
LETS MAKE 8x8 INDICATOR EVEN SMALLER THAT WILL IMPROVE IT
 
1:41 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit English doubt. Is "from the moment <x happens> to the moment <y happens> correct"?
 
Xeo
2:03 PM
Meeeeh, I wanna code.
 
@Xeo then do...
 
Xeo
But I don't wanna do graphics code :<
 
But graphics code is fun D:
 
Xeo
I guess I'll someday have to bite the bullet and learn me some DX / OGL
 
If an idiot like me can learn it, so can you
 
2:05 PM
so if I have static const struct none_t{} none = {};, it really should be internal/linkonce odr linkage, right?
 
Xeo
ye
 
hm
Clang in...
oh, I forgot to deploy the changes.
 
Note that in this case the static is redundant.
 
yeah, I thought that const implied it but when adding const didn't solve the issue, I added it anyway
 
Xeo
@Borgleader I kinda hated the DirectX lessons at the Games Academy. The shader coding was fun, but dealing with the DX stuff directly... felt meh.
 
Ell
2:09 PM
I think graphics is hard
 
Ugh MSVC macro browser is terrible
You can't press a key to go to macros starting with that character, because EVERYTHING STARTS WITH $
 
@Jefffrey sure
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus press moar keys
 
Doesn't work
 
Xeo
Also, wait, you still have a VS that has that macro stuff?
 
2:10 PM
It doesn't remember the sequence
 
Xeo
I thought they removed that a while ago
 
It's 2013
 
Xeo
oh wait, wrong macros
 
MSBuild macros
 
Xeo
yeah, I was thinking of the IDE macros
 
2:11 PM
Oh wait there's an input box that almost blends in with the background
Gee don't label it or anything
 
@Xeo Yeah that shit can get tedious, although i feel most of that goes away once youve built even a thin layer of abstraction over it
 
Xeo
Yeah, and I kinda don't want to build that thin layer :<
(I'm just whining here)
 
I've been thinking of making ogl tutorials because most of the online ones are beyond terrible.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes, thats the reason why I said most instead of all. Its also my benchmark.
 
Ell
I like open.gl too
 
Improve the existing ones instead of writing a new thing jesus
 
Don't tell me what to do D:
 
Ell
@Borgleader do what you want to do :)
 
Xeo
> OpenGL 3.2
Isn't that... pretty old? Or does that not matter?
 
2:19 PM
As long as it's core profile it's okay
Newer versions add more stuff, but you don't really need them to learn stuff
 
Xeo
k
 
Might warrant a mention of useful extensions like DSA or ARB_debug_output
But otherwise
it's fiiiiiine
 
@Xeo 4.5 was announced/released during siggraph this year (like 2 weeks ago), release date for 3.2 was dec 2009
 
They speak Welsh amongst themselves. They only use the metaphor stuff with aliens, so as to be more easily understood. — Paul 23 hours ago
 
3.2 is a safe "modern" target
Except on Intel GPUs
 
2:25 PM
imo, the only thing to pay attention to when learning ogl is to dodge the deprecated stuff
 
Have fun going beyond 1.2 on those
 
Ell
I thought new intel gpus weren't so bad?
 
It's like with IE
It doesn't matter if new ones are good or not
 
@Ell cat likes making fun of them because it makes @bartek go nuts
 
Also because I was working on a game that tripped Intel GPUs hardcore with OpenGL 2.0
 
2:26 PM
TIL cat is a gamedev
 
It wasn't even modern shit, it was immediate mode mostly
That codebase is so horrible
 
Ell
Having errors silently disappears sucks
lua sucks
I wonder if that will attract bartek
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Thanks
 
right, attract, not attack
 
2:57 PM
hmm
so what I'm thinking is that if you include a header, then I need to ship that header and all headers included by it.
 
Ell
makes sense
 
@Ell How bad is "so bad"?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin have opengl 3.2 :P
 
I dunno
if you include <vector>, I probably don't want to ship the stdlib implementation.
so I've been thinking that maybe I should make the user state which headers to ship.
 
T4 is cool
C++ should replace PP with T4
 
3:05 PM
most people put their include headers in a directory anyway so something like export_headers := "path" would be fine.
it's not like you'd have to list every header
 
Ell
@Puppy is this if you're distributing a library?
 
yes.
 
Ell
why not just ship no headers and just make the user document that this library has a dependency?
 
what's the point in that when I could just make it self-contained by shipping the headers it needs
 
Ell
because they user of the library needs that dependency anyway
 
3:13 PM
not necessarily.
 
Ell
How not?
 
if you include the body of the library into the module, which is more than possible.
then the user of the library doesn't need it, they just need the headers and then to link to your module.
 
Why not have a "publish" directory for the set of headers you intend to distribute?
 
well, IME, most libraries already have a dedicated public include directory.
 
This way, the means of specifying the header would simply be to "have" that file in the publish directory. "Have" could mean link if it makes sense for your CM/fs.
 
3:16 PM
so I'll just let the user specify that path.
then take all the files from in that directory (recursively)
 
Woo mouse interaction works
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus T4?
 
@Xeo t4 templates
Which are horrible by the way :D
 
Ell
ahh lua why can't I turn off tail call optimisation
 
3:30 PM
because the Lua language spec requires it, IIRC.
 
Ell
that's pretty silly
 
not really.
having TCO fundamentally changes what operations are viable
 
Ell
requiring an optimisation?
 
TCO doesn't really qualify as an optimization.
 
Ell
why not?
 
3:32 PM
because if you have TCO then there's a lot of code and entire programming styles that are feasible that are basically impossible otherwise.
 
Ell
like what?
 
well, virtually all functional styles make super heavy use of tail recursion
 
Ell
but you can do tail recursion without TCO
 
yes, just to an almost-irrelevant degree.
the max call stack for a Lua interpreter is not very large.
 
Why would you want to turn off TCO
It's like turning off constant folding
 
Ell
3:35 PM
to get complete stack traces
 
makes debugging not so easy, since you lost the data about previous invocations.
 
It's a loop
Not recursion
 
expressing it as non-tail recursion gives you more debug info.
 
Also use a language that has actual debuggers :v
 
Lua debugging experience is not exactly great anyway
 
3:36 PM
TAINTED
 
@CatPlusPlus Wouldn't call 98.3% "tainted", it's far worse.
2
 
I need to write more stuff so that C++ shit is like 0.01%
UGH I HAVE CPLUSPLUS IN MY REPO
 
Ell
@Griwes heh
I can't log stuff for some reason
 
4:05 PM
Just when you thought Google was the good guy
 
that's so 2004
everybody knows that Google is just as evil as the other companies.
personally I think that Microsoft are probably the least evil; they're just not very good at anything so it's hard to tell whether or not they're trying to be evil.
 
@Puppy Which means soon enough @Mysticial will turn into Darth Myticious :(
 
Yeah, I think the whole antitrust thing, Microsoft has turned the least evil. Probably out of fear, but it's changed them.
"Do no evil" lol
 
Ell
Oh the rules disappeared
 
Ell
4:32 PM
Hmm
 
quick? who knows the rules?
 
Ell
not me :O
 
Time for anarchy!
 
This isn't supposed to be anarchy?
Why hasn't anybody told me so?
 
Ell
Anarchy isn't without rules!
Anarchy is without rulers
 
4:34 PM
But then how would you measure small distances precisely without rulers?
 
Ell
As an anarcho-capitalist I resent said misunderstanding :P
@FredOverflow With a micrometer of course!
 
@FredOverflow more precisely their feet?
 
There are always rulers
 
Ell
Not in anarchy
 
tape measure
 
4:36 PM
rulers are good for measuring anarchy
 
There will always be a jerk who exerts power over others
Everything else is theoretical
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I like to think in thousands of years there won't be :P
It's a dream maybe.
 
@CatPlusPlus Do we have such a jerk in the Lounge?
 
Yeah right
@FredOverflow Yes, me
 
@Ell There won't be because we will cease to exist as individuals and become the Borg.
 
4:38 PM
woo, apparently Icelandic volcano is go
Should be interesting to see how many news sites get the name Bárðarbunga right over the next few days. Unicode challenge, GO!
 
Oh hey
That happens
 
Oh please no.
 
translate: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: READ THE RULES.
 
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: READ THE RULES.
22
 
Jerks
 
4:40 PM
I am supposed to be flying around europe next week.
 
@Xarn Why?
 
Ell
Oops.
I forgot to put the washing out
I wonder if there is enough time
 
@FredOverflow Vacation. :-D
 
@Xarn ... via Iceland? I think you might be able to find a more direct route... :p
 
4:44 PM
@Ell That's not called The Lounge, that's called The Unconference.
 
@jalf Nah, but IIRC last time it kinda killed air traffic in more than just Iceland.
Also last time I was on (in?) Iceland.
 
Ell
@FredOverflow I look forward to my first Unconference :)
 
4:58 PM
Oh my, keyboard input and focusing works
 
user3010322
@Xeo Only the most obsessed write the wrapper layer around OpenGL. To be quite honest you can just dump the OpenGL code out where you need it and get really, really far without much effort at all.
 
user3010322
The ugliest bits will be initializes OpenGL Context for a window. The rest is pretty much smooth sailing.
 
user3010322
If you must though, just ask @Borgleader for his OpenGL wrapper or @melak47 for his DirectX wrapper. It only gets easier from there, really.
 
Ell
just use sfml/sdl to get a gl context
then oglplus for a c++ interface
 
user3010322
glload, if you'd like something that's tailored to your needs.
 
5:01 PM
@ThePhD my wrapper handles the ids, i dont do context, sfml/glfw handle that for me
 
user3010322
IMMEDIATE FROWNING FACE OF JUDGEMENT.
 
Allegro > SDL
 
@ThePhD yay for writing abstractions around abstractions!
 
the hell are you working on
 
5:02 PM
Home/End doesn't work
 
user3010322
The only useful abstraction is one that allows you to not worry about what the underlying code is concerned with. (I.E. it removes the concept of OpenGL/DirectX and just offers you features, like an HTML5-like Canvas API or a SpriteBatcher or Kerning'd Text.
 
Awesomium-powered UI
 
@CatPlusPlus isnt Awesomium ridiculously expensive?
 
It's not very awesome
It's free for free things
 
5:03 PM
@ThePhD unless you consider that OpenGL is the abstrawction that allows you to not worry about what the underlying driver code is concerned with
 
user3010322
@MooingDuck Yes, but OpenGL itself can sometimes still be too concerned with the lower-level details.
 
@MooingDuck It's too low-level, and doesn't deal with a lot of things like getting a goddamn window
 
user3010322
E.g. shader binding, compilation and then getting all the parameters can be the biggest hassle ever.
 
It's a building block not the application-level abstraction
> Awesomium is free for any team making less than $100K revenue and free to use in any educational or non-commercial apps.
 
What's wrong with building an abstraction on top of an abstraction in general, and in particular in this case?
 
5:05 PM
I might use CEF eventually but eh
 
user3010322
CEF?
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, neat.
 
I'd have to build a native launcher already, and I don't want to deal with boring stuff like that right now
@ThePhD Chromium Embedded Framework
Key autorepeat and selecting with Shift don't work :/
Eh, whatever
Now to venture into another barely documented area and get data source up
 
Ell
Okay. I need to redirect and be redirected back and return to where I was in the js script. Wish me luck :P
 
Good luck!
 
5:17 PM
@StackedCrooked Curious question, why isn't puppy a room owner anymore?
 
@HWalters That question makes no sense
hth
 
@GamesBrainiac because of @rightfold's vagina
 
^
 
@StackedCrooked Rightfold is male. At least, i think so.
 
Repost incoming:
user image
2
 
5:19 PM
@StackedCrooked Don't tell me its a clip on.
 
@GamesBrainiac you must be new here
 
@GamesBrainiac well, i'm off to buy some food
 
oooh
 
> bye some food
 
@GamesBrainiac they others will fill you in for sure :)
 
5:19 PM
@Borgleader Nope. Been here for a pretty long time, just went away for a while.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Likewise.
 
@Jefffrey dammit my spelling
 
I liked "bey" too
:P
 
Maybe thats how the dutch people say it :P
 
@Jefffrey From Mooing Duck: "unless you consider that OpenGL is the abstrawction that allows you to not worry about what the underlying driver code is concerned with" implies there's a problem with building abstractions on abstractions. I don't see what the problem is. You build an abstraction to create another interface to simplify invariants you don't care about; this could be cross support across abstractions, removing details, whatever.
Or it could simply be that I didn't understand exactly what he was getting at... which was why I asked
 
5:22 PM
abstractions are good, unless they are bad
 
Yeah, that :)
 
@HWalters I keep hearing about "abstracts away openGL and DX" as if that were the point rather than a convenient side effect. I claim it's a stupid goal, as it would add overhead with no useful purpose.
 
too much <X> is bad, too few <X> is bad
 
if the abstraction on the other hand makes things easier, then that is useful
 
replace <X> with whatever, from alcohol to abstractions
also boring
 
5:23 PM
@MooingDuck It's a valid thing, because there are targets that support OpenGL and not DX and vice versa (even on Windows)
 
lounge<C>
 
So yes, that is the point in many cases
 
@CatPlusPlus gaming targets that don't support OGL? That's news to me. (I am uninformed)
 
There are bad drivers or bad cards or bad both
Esp with mobile GPUs
Not to mention that they fit in the same archetype anyway, so a common interface is a perfectly good reason to abstract over them
 
> Meet the Loophonium - the glorious union of a euphonium and a lavatory.
 
5:29 PM
Woo there's a oob directory-loading DataSource and it works fine
Amazing
 
Guys guys
I think I won Reddit.
 
Buy a fedora and some butts with it
 
Or invest in bitcoins
 
Yes that is what I said
Eh I wanted to eat eggs but they died few days ago it seems
Guess I have to order something again
 
they probably wouldn't have died a few days ago if you'd eaten them instead of ordering :P
 
They died before I ran out of real food :v
 
@chris Congratulations
 
My chair is terrible
 
It probably wasn't designed for a cat.
4
 
I have not yet found any chair that is not, aparrently, designed for cats.
 
5:41 PM
@sehe missed opportunity for Abort, Retry, Fail?
 
@MartinJames You're not cat.
 
@GamesBrainiac If you put any chair into a room where cats are allowed entry, then eventually, you will find a cat sleeping on it.
..unless the dog gets there first.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What's gpsd anyway?
 
user3010322
@MartinJames Or they'll just pretend you don't exist in the chair and sit in it anyways.
 
@MartinJames Cat is a special kinda cat.
 
5:44 PM
He's a qat chewer.
 
@PolymorphicPotato Boneshaker. How was the book?
 
What book?
 
Your avatar icon, its a book cover.
 
I don't know what it is from.
 
@VáclavZeman Graphics Programming Sleeping Disease.
 
5:45 PM
I just googled "steampunk."
 
@MartinJames Right. :)
 
when did light become a girl?
 
@GamesBrainiac He has always had girl avatars.
 
@GamesBrainiac Light has always had a female avatar?
 
5:47 PM
No he had this other blond avatar. That was a girl too?
 
@GamesBrainiac After watching a Tom Tom Ad? NSFW
 
Holy shit that was NSFW
lol
 
@JerryCoffin why don't post stuff like this more often? :)
 
@GamesBrainiac Good point.
 
@StackedCrooked He doesn't want to share all the good stuff.
 
5:54 PM
television ads generally should be considered sfw
 
@StackedCrooked Seems less...suitable during the week when people are likely to be at work.
 
@JerryCoffin ok, i'll remind you next weekend then
 
@StackedCrooked You really are persistent ;)
 
@StackedCrooked Should be, but may not be (especially likely if you have a female boss).
 
I had a female boss once.
Wasn't pretty.
Not the boss I mean, the situation.
 
5:56 PM
I was gonna ask.
never had a female boss
 
You want to know if my ex-boss was pretty or not?
 
@GamesBrainiac Did you just call me a girl?
 
except for the boss of the accountancy, which is not my division
 
@PolymorphicPotato Are you? Its hard to tell these days. And no I didn't.
 
Yes, I am.
Oh. :(
 
5:57 PM
@StackedCrooked Ahh.
 
however, she is married to the CEO/owner
 
@StackedCrooked Smart woman.
 
My boss doesn't like it when I call him "boss."
So I call him "chef" instead.
 
we use first name
 
We too.
Except for one intern. His name is Patrick but we call him Frank because we already have a Patrick and that would be confusing.
 
5:59 PM
Same here. Although I used to call my boss nerdmeister.
 

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