« first day (1320 days earlier)      last day (3634 days later) » 

2:00 PM
Well, it'll allow them to focus on the backend and not the frontend, which would be handled by Clang.
They either go all-out LLVM, in which case they have some proprietary changes to the front and middle end, or they use Clang, and write their own LLVM IR to MS optimizer code.
But hey, what am I thinking.
 
@rubenvb you doubt the existence of it? Or their competence?
 
Nonexistence would explain a lot.
 
@rubenvb or they keep their heads buried in the sand and keep living in the mid-80's
I know what I think is most likely
 
They just put all the budget on the other stuff.
C#, web things, cloud things, mobile things.
 
I'm with @R.Martinho on this.
Even though they shouted a lot about going native.
Their focus is on the Apps now.
 
2:09 PM
I'm really annoyed by the notion (popularized by Java) that (1) fully-qualified module names are prone to conflict and (2) naming modules after your website domain name somehow makes them not prone to conflict.
 
you forgot bing
 
Xeo
OMG! New HxH Chapter whoooo~ /cc @StackedCrooked @ScarletAmaranth
 
@Xeo real mad :)
 
personally I think at the current rate of innovation is going, human wouldn't be able to survive the next huge nature disaster, you know the kind that kill all the dinosaurs.
 
Nothing works; I'm full to the brim with frustration. I guess I'll just go home and pack for tomorrow.
Later.
 
Xeo
2:18 PM
@ScarletAmaranth You're reading the Manga too?
 
yay, I was called for an interview at gameloft; here's me hoping for the best, expecting the worst right now
 
personally
I don't understand why Microsoft don't just add MS ABI compliance to Clang and be done with it
it would be far cheaper than all the work they put in
and way more reliable
is there a convenient noobuntu tool for seeing memory usage, core utilization %, etc?
 
@DeadMG system monitor
 
ah cheers
 
@DeadMG I think they're just too proud and entrenched to do that
 
2:22 PM
It's like task manager in Windows
@DeadMG Also, think about C++-CLI
That'd need some work at least
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz do you have experience with FRP?
 
and C++/CX
 
@rubenvb They hardly seem to support it at all right now.
 
@rightfold NOTEAIri/aS NOW
flkdsajfl;kdsajfa
 
@DeadMG BUT TEH LEGACY CODEZ!
 
user1804599
2:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You seem to have OTR enabled. Can you disable it please?
 
hmm
 
Remember the XP target debacle? What would dropping one of their languages be like?
 
I think I Need to add a swap partition to noobuntu but all the answers say you have to fuck around adding device UUIDs to system setting files.
 
@DeadMG you don't
 
You don't need a swap partition
 
2:25 PM
well, I have absolutely no swap at all right now
 
and this I feel may be problematic
 
@DeadMG That's not a problem, but if you decide to add one, you can do it like this: wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fstab#File_example
 
@DeadMG Do you hit swap often?
 
Note that a mistake in fstab will leave you unable to boot.
 
2:26 PM
@rightfold otr?
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery Only when trying to build LLVM with -j 8, apparently.
@rubenvb That's why I didn't want to fuck around adding device UUIDs to system setting files.
 
user1804599
Off-the-Record Messaging, commonly referred to as OTR, is a cryptographic protocol that provides strong encryption for instant messaging conversations. OTR uses a combination of the AES symmetric-key algorithm, the Diffie–Hellman key exchange, and the SHA-1 hash function. In addition to authentication and encryption, OTR provides perfect forward secrecy and malleable encryption. The primary motivation behind the protocol was providing deniability for the conversation participants while keeping conversations confidential, like a private conversation in real life, or off the record in jou...
 
@DeadMG Oh yeah lol. Well try not to hit swap and you'll be fine!
 
@DeadMG either you copy paste a UUID or a path, it doesn't make much difference. Just double check whatever you do.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG You really don't want to swap
that'll just make it worse
way worse
 
2:27 PM
Oh, yeah, also, that.
Just put less load on the system.
 
Xeo
swapping is the worst kind of idea for parallel builds
 
Or download more RAM.
 
If you hit swap when building it just takes forever
Sometimes even more
 
RAM is the secret juice.
 
@Xeo Better than crashing the system, which is what happened last time.
 
2:29 PM
Maybe don't run more compiler processes than you can handle?
 
fuck you, fucking LLVM, I fucking turned on RTTI, why do you waste my time with this shit
 
@CatPlusPlus It's the linking that gets you.
ld is horrible with memory.
 
@CatPlusPlus How do you intend to discover how many you can handle without running too many at least once or twice?
 
I hope lld will change that.
 
Xeo
I wish they'd kept the "lold" name
 
2:30 PM
You can guesstimate by available RAM and project size
 
> P.S. Please do not reply with: "Too difficult, go make hello world you noob and come back in [insert ridiculously large number here] years."
I am tempted.
 
> Please don't come back at all
 
Yes Cat once again your reply is sheer perfection I love you
 
Meh I need to go outside to talk with the new place's owner
I'm sleepy already
 
Xeo
Did you stay up all night again?
 
2:34 PM
I hate this cuda thingy. It's like a permanent split between super high and super low levels.
 
@rubenvb Alternatively, you can just use the swapon utility which can add swap files for you.
 
@Xeo No, woke up at 5
 
this still ranks as about -1 in terms of usability but at least it's not "Permanently bring down the system" bad.
 
user1804599
How do you deal with cycles in FRP? IOW preventing infinite loops.
 
@DeadMG ah yes, but that's one-shot
 
2:35 PM
what do you mean, one-shot?
 
user1804599
Say you want two a variable and a textbox to be in sync all the time.
 
Xeo
delays and checking
 
@rightfold FRP?
 
Xeo
Arrows are basically circuits if you allow loops, so the same stuff applies
 
functional reactive programming
if I had to guess
 
2:36 PM
Yeah, guessed that too.
 
Xeo
You could, theoretically, build your Arrow code as redstone in Minecraft. It'll also collapse and become unstable if you don't introduce delays at key points.
 
I don't get where people find the time to create computers in Minecraft.
 
write LLVM IR -> redstone compiler
compile Clang and LLVM to redstone
voila.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's not true that the Alert had no effect, and that's one of the reasons The Call of Cthulhu is not as terrifying as HPL's other stories.
 
Xeo
lol
 
2:39 PM
@DeadMG I believe you are looking for voilà. "Viola" means "raped" in French.
Subtle difference I know.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery Almost.
 
well I certainly meant voila instead of viola
but fuck the accent, you can imagine it
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not almost. Exactly. Il viola Etienne à répétition.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery C'est des choses qui arrivent.
 
Rarement je l'espère.
 
2:41 PM
hmm
I wonder if I have an LLVM package installed for some reason and it's trying to link to that instead of the one I built?
 
user1804599
@Griwes Functional Reactive Programming.
 
user1804599
@Xeo What is a delay?
 
Xeo
uhm
you give it an initial value, and after that you get every input one loop later
 
hmm
how can I check the actual g++ invocation make uses?
 
@DeadMG --dry-run
 
2:44 PM
I had a look at make --help but none of them seemed to mention it
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ahahaha 'truly good horror' and then Slender logo
 
user1804599
@Xeo oh, right.
 
ahahahaha
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, don't know what they were going on about there.
 
2:45 PM
ahahahahahah
 
Slender is basically "Cheap Jump Scares: The Game"
The only reason it got as much attention as it got is because PewDiePie played some of it.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery -n seems to function
 
@DeadMG They seem to be aliases
 
@DeadMG If it's a CMake generated makefile, use VERBOSE=1
 
Oh wow there's 4 aliases. -n --just-print --dry-run --recon
 
2:46 PM
--just-die-already
 
@rubenvb It isn't.
apparently they can build with cmake or configure & make, and configure & make randomly doesn't support their fucking random global variable shit for turning on RTTI
 
@DeadMG You sure about that? It might be things like LLVM_ENABLE_RTTI and such
 
their docs are pretty explicit.
I didn't have such a problem with actually doing it in the past, only forgetting to even try.
 
so, fun story
 
Xeo
@DeadMG --enable-rtti? :D
 
2:51 PM
depending on what happens over the next week or so, I might just be in the market for a new job :/
 
@jalf Oh dear. What happened?
@Xeo Nah, that would be too obvious, explicit, and reliable.
 
So, a colleague of mine is pressing Ctrl+C in VS, and he's getting a System.OutOfMemoryException popup.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@EtiennedeMartel I don't know what the fuck ctrl+c does in VS, but I often get "Waiting for background operation to complete...". How can it be so hard to paste some text into a fucking buffer?
 
nothing happened yet. Our owners have been trying to sell our company for the last year or so. For the past month's, they've been in serious talk with another company, and apparently, there's been a hiccup in that the potential buyer would need another month to secure the loan they'd need to buy us. To which our current owners say "that's unacceptable. It's now or never. Also, we're withholding wages for all employees until this goes through"
 
2:54 PM
@jalf how is that a fun story?
 
@jalf Don't you have like, a contract, that specifies that they have to pay you? They can't just decide to up and not pay their employees.
 
@jalf how can they withhold wages?
Go on strike!
 
so either we get sold within the next week or so (the new guys actually seem serious and competent, unlike the retards in charge atm) so that'd be the happy ending), or I'm outta there
 
@DeadMG VS does way too much stuff in the UI thread. Also, using the clipboard follows the "as long as it fails, keep trying" model.
 
@jalf ...is that legal?
 
2:56 PM
@rubenvb well, the company isn't profitable. We rely on our investors to throw more money at us. And they can choose not to do that
 
@jalf you still have a contract.
 
hmm
 
in which they promise to pay you regardless.
 
@rubenvb sure, with the company. Our investors aren't bound by that. They're free to just not invest. Then the company just has a serious problem
 
@jalf wat?! that's a dick move
 
2:57 PM
indeed, you still have a contract and they are liable to fulfill it, but if there is not enough money to go around and they can't afford to meet all liabilities, then somebody is gonna get shafted and you'd probably have to ask a judge or lawyers to determine who
 
^
better call them in early. this doesn't look pretty
 
@sehe The absurd thing is that it's a terrible move for them too. First, the potential buyers agreed to buy now, at a lower price and with some flexible payment options (meaning the current owners get a lower price for the company), plus they've basically salted the earth ensuring that if this deal doesn't go through, they won't have a company to sell because everyone will be quitting pretty promptly
 
@DeadMG Well, in Belgium, the company is always shafted and usually people get paid.
 
it is pretty retarded
@rubenvb yeah, we will get paid by someone in the end. If nothing else, there are some state guarantees and stuff, afaik. But that would obviously delay matters by some days
 
@rubenvb The company is already shafted by the time they can't meet their liabilities. The question is which liabilities will get unfulfilled in that event- suppliers, other businesses, employees, etc.
 
3:00 PM
also, unless they get this sorted out pretty soon, I'll probably have to cancel for the unconference. A trip to berlin probably isn't a good idea if I'm not getting paid ;)
 
Xeo
@jalf You might want to keep an eye open for job opportunities already
 
@Xeo absolutely
 
Xeo
@jalf noooo~
@jalf Actually!
 
what does the company do, exactly?
 
@Xeo How is the job market in Berlin though? :D
 
Xeo
3:01 PM
Just start at @sbi's place :D
They're hiring
 
Yeah, that would definitely be a possibility
 
Xeo
Just have an interview during the Unconference, two birds with one stone.
 
@Xeo yeah, I could do that
 
speaking of which
I need to get myself out there and looking for employment too
officially I am still on medical stuff until the middle of June, but
 
Xeo
Puppy, you should also just move to Berlin and start at the ape's place
 
3:02 PM
the idea of moving to another country where I don't speak the language frankly scares me shitless
 
I hope this gets sorted out though. I like working here. The company is great. It's just the current owners that are utterly incompetent 5-year olds
 
@Borgleader is the repo somewhere? can I have a looksie? :3
 
@DeadMG Most people in Berlin speak English though. But yeah, it is definitely a challenge
 
well, it's not like you can turn around and fly home again if you don't like it.
 
3:04 PM
@DeadMG We have a fund for that in Belgium to help employees which lost their job in those cases.
 
@DeadMG You don't speak English? All the tech. staff I've met in Germany have good English. It's not as big a problem as you seem to think.
 
hmm
that was not the experience I had in Linz
 
@jalf aren't you the one always posting the C++ embedded jobs here? Or is that sbi?
 
@MartinJames IMO it'd more be the issue of living in the city/country. Presumably the company wouldn't hire English-speaking people, if they didn't actually handle people speaking English at work ;)
@rubenvb nah, that's sbi
 
@rubenvb it's ape
 
3:05 PM
@rubenvb I used to do that a bit, a year or two ago
 
Hmmm to be fair he did edit his question a bit. It looks like a question now.
 
boy, I need new hardware
spent basically all day building LLVM and Clang
 
if you get a job, maybe you can afford it, too!
 
Also, pretty stellar timing. I just spent most of my money on my recent vacation, and just booked the trip to Berlin. Meaning I have like $200 in my bank account :p
 
Someone sucks at finances
 
3:06 PM
lol
 
@sehe Stay calm. Everything will be alright, friend. — Anthony Rutledge 21 secs ago
 
Xeo
@jalf ow
 
@sehe smoke weed alldayyyy errdayyy
 
just ask robot for a loan, he's always complaining that he has too much money
 
3:07 PM
and then he'll be complaining he has too many beggars too
 
llol
 
@jalf Berlin is big capital city, very cosmopolitan. They are very tolerant of poor/none German speakers.
 
maybe chasing you to get his money back would incentivise him to leave his office
 
I just find it weird that so many people don't keep a big buffer like I do.
 
@DeadMG eh, I'll be fine. I don't mean to make this sound like an emergency. I'm just pissed at the retards who basically seem to be trying to wreck the company they've invested in, and amused at the hilariously bad timing
 
3:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes They are afraid of overflow?
 
I swap to my savings account every time a kiloeuro is written to my main account
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I actually have no idea. The only thing I remember about your financial situation is that you got a pay rise when you changed jobs and Xeo still has his starting salary.
 
Xeo
Hey, I got a rise too
 
@jalf That's fortunate cause I don't think the robot is really gonna give you a loan :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I usually would rather just throw my money at paying off my apartment. Long term, that seems like a better investment
 
3:10 PM
Yeah, I don't want to buy something I can't move.
 
@DeadMG That's why you need to change jobs often enough to get your salary up, but not so often that your CV gives the impression that you are continually being pushed out.
 
@Dead fwiw I'm not in the office.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then I hope you continue to work with MSVC :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Buy a car or bike - they move themselves.
 
@MartinJames I need to start by getting a job :P
 
3:11 PM
@DeadMG Oh yeah... :(
 
ah
 
@MartinJames yea this
 
I just need to get off my lazy ass and start looking but the hospital have not contacted me about my surgery
 
I don't believe in cars.
 
so I'm a little unsure about it
 
3:12 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes My other car is a cdr.
3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can understand that - you live in the middle of Berlin, where there is good public transport and parking etc. is more trouble than it's worth:) Anne and I would be pretty stuft here without cars.
 
0
Q: Urgently Needed "Bank ATM Project Simulation using Object-Oriented Programming"

user3684239ATM is one of the main sources of withdrawal and/or deposit of money nowadays. In this project, a simulation of a location with multiple ATM Machines (say ATM booth outside the banks) is to be attempted. The ATM Machine must be capable of servicing different types of account holders (customers) d...

 
lol, burn it!
 
3:17 PM
@Mysticial ...and the lurkers come out to play vote!
 
@Mysticial Throwing petrol on it now.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery lol
 
@JerryCoffin I'm only up this early because I'm on telephone standby for jury duty.
 
user3010322
@rubenvb Yeah... the problem with LLVM/Clang is that LLVM's optimizer is quite literally a flaming pile of garbage.
 
@ThePhD Say what? It's quite competitive with GCC, mind you.
 
3:19 PM
@ThePhD What?! You are the flaming pile of garbage.
 
Meh - it got deleted while I was typing my sarcastic comment:(
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery No, he's not shitting, it's hilarious the limitations.
the only thing that "competitive with GCC" means is "GCC's optimizer is ALSO hilariously limited".
 
user3010322
Both G++'s and VC++'s optimizers smoke LLVM's optimizer by no small margin, especially when you're depending on it to cut away code that enables you to make good abstractions without sacrificing performance.
 
@ThePhD [citation needed]
 
3:20 PM
er, not really
 
I'd argue that, while not as good as GCC in general, LLVM is pretty good at optimizing.
 
LLVM's optimizer, in general, is quite competitive with GCC.
 
It means "we decided to claim it with our reality distortion field".
 
@Mysticial Oh, that sucks (but I guess it's better than having to go to the courthouse for stand-by).
 
I don't hear FreeBSD people complaining their OS is slower because of the switch to Clang.
 
3:21 PM
you can find differences on different test cases, but in general, they do not generate slower code.
 
user3010322
I haven't done much benchmarking myself, but it comes up multiple times when I read other people's work: most recently, it came up here: ericniebler.com/2014/04/27/range-comprehensions
 
you can probably find some test case that hits a particularly bad path in LLVM's optimizer, sure.
 
user3010322
> If, however, your compiler of choice is clang, I have some bad news for you. The range comprehension is (wait for it) 15 times slower. Dear god, that’s awful. I guess that goes to show that despite the astounding awesome-ness of clang in most respects, its optimizer still has some ways to go. -- Niebler with Range Comprehensions
 
Most of the benchmarks I've seen showed Clang to generate somewhat slower code, but not by a huge margin
 
but you can probably find some test case that hits a particularly bad path in GCC's optimizer.
 
3:22 PM
@JerryCoffin Yeah - sitting around all day then the case gets settled at the last minute:(
 
user3010322
(Emphasis his)
 
his range comprehension is gonna be based on a bunch of inlining, and I know for a fact that LLVM's inliner is one of the weakest parts.
but again, that's not in general, it's a specific test case.
 
user3010322
Inlining is goddamn important. <_>
 
@ThePhD Oh wow look it's one particular case of clang performing bad, quick, burn the compiler to the ground
 
@ThePhD There are many goddamn important optimizations.
 
user3010322
3:23 PM
That's like what 90% of my code depends on: inlining shit so all that dispatching and forwarding can be cut out.
 
right
 
@ThePhD Well, I can't run the testcase on my PC.
I vote invalid.
 
so what you're really saying is something totally different, which is that your specific case is much worse on LLVM.
 
@William do not fall for the fallacy fallacy.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let me troll in peace
 
user3010322
3:25 PM
vOv
 
@MartinJames It can be worse than that--sitting at the courthouse in the jury pool, just in case they should have a case that needs a jury.
 
From what I've seen clang's O3 is in general comparable to GCC's O2.
MSVC doesn't count because ICEing does not generate executables.
 
user3010322
Heh.
 
user3010322
Oh, I'm in a better position to make the switch to MinGW.
 
user3010322
So after I properly spank my text class into shape... it's off to MinGW land.
 
user3010322
3:27 PM
I wish I could just replace the compiler and debugger easily for VS.
 
user3010322
But it's been so hard. Even my project to replace just the compiler properly has been a hellish rollercoaster. ;~;
 
Because what's left is so awesome?
 
user3010322
Yes?
 
@ThePhD That's really easy. Just use makefiles as build step.
 
@JerryCoffin Depends on if the jury pool has a wave machine or not.
 
user3010322
3:28 PM
Pix Graphics Debugger, Visual Assist X refactoring...
 
user3010322
I can't say those are bad?
 
A lot of accusations, but little evidence. — Anthony Rutledge 12 mins ago
@sehe lol
This guy is going to keep commenting his own question for 15 days
 
user3010322
Granted when I switch to OpenGL, I'll lose one of those.
 
"Writing mathematical documents with LaTeX"
wth course is this and why does it require a semester
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Your avatar changed again!
 
user3010322
3:30 PM
@AlexM. Ezpz creds.
 
it did!
 
Guise, identifiers starting with _ are reserved at class level, right?
Or are they not?
 
@ThePhD I'd choose it but it's just something that you take if you want extra stuff, and I don't need the extra credits right now
 
Xeo
if it starts with upper-case
_blub is fine
 
I'll choose VR and semi-structured data
 
3:31 PM
@DeadMG "not", I'm afraid. Worse, had to pay for parking...
 
Okay, can anyone with VS try compiling int _sptr;?
Either as a local or class member.
 
try the online compiler
 
It looks like it's reserved
 
2
A: Is darkness really light?

surenbharaththe structure of human eye is delicate in nature, if the intensity of the light is very low, the things have no color. The adapted vision is almost entirely due to the rods and visions is bright light entirely due to cones. the remarkable shift between the dark and bright is purkinje effect. rods...

good image from India there
 
Photo taken from my potato
 
3:34 PM
intellisense says __sptr and __uptr must follow a *
 
Potatoes taste good.
 
Xeo
@melak47 that's double _
 
@Xeo I know.
 
Xeo
Maybe MSVC has #define _sptr __sptr
I can totally see them do that
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery rise4fun.com/Vcpp/7E1
 
3:36 PM
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery yep
 
yay
I finally built and executed my tests.
 
Xeo
Right, time to head home
 
I mean, only 117 failures to debug, right?
 
3:37 PM
ah, I know that like, 110 of them pass on Windows so I'm pretty sure it's just that code I added to link to libc++
 
god, seriously, massive epidemic on Halo 4 MP atm of morons running in front of my vehicle then booting me for TK
use your brain, fucktards
 
user3010322
:D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Dude. It's Halo. Fucktards are the target audience.
 
> [...] the cancerous C++ specification continues to metastasize [...]
 
user3010322
Is that from that C++ FQA guy?
 
3:47 PM
From some blag
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's never been this bad before
 
Yeah C++ would be so much better off if everyone just did their own thing! ;v
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery Linky.
 
(gdb) print entries.begin()->size()
Attempt to take address of value not located in memory.
ack, I thought only MSVC's debugger did that shit?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Here
 
3:51 PM
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery Right, a game programmer.
Why did the guy use C++ for a fucking tool?
 
He himself might be a fucking tool.
 
Also, he's writing glorified C.
But that's par for the course for a game dev.
 
I wonder why no one has made C** yet. Moar pointers!
 
Also also, his view of "OOP" is "inheritance nightmare".
 
user3010322
Indeed.
 
user3010322
3:54 PM
If I make a UI that looks like that, I think I just might kill myself.
 
He obviously never encountered ECS, which is also OOP.
 
The other day I had an argument with someone on why composition may be preferred over inheritance. I was told that I was "too young" to understand :p
 
user3010322
:D
 
> Code is procedurally oriented, and the “objects” are simply constructs that arise that allow procedures to be reused. So if you just let that happen instead of trying to force everything to work backwards, programming becomes immensely more pleasant.
Man, what a cock.
Textbook case of a strawman, right there.
 
user3010322
So.... he's rediscovering good programming practices
 
user3010322
3:57 PM
Clap clap. Deserves a medal.
 
Basically, he thinks OOP is enterprisey UML bullshit, and he then shits on that.
 
It's not a straw man because he doesn't start from a weaker version of someone's argument.
It starts from a wrong assumption.
 

« first day (1320 days earlier)      last day (3634 days later) »