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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 23:00

00:04
Today's featured article on the English Wikipedia homepage is "Second Ostend Raid". Is this the same for everyone or is this localized content?
^ The Visual Turing Test
I failed the second question, where the "human" answer would say John is "left of the tree", a tree that's not visible in the question page (at least on my machine, Firefox)
I also said "left of the tree" because he wasn't very near the white car.
Apart from that, it's a very boring quiz. And you often only see half of the images.
Hm, I could not see any tree
user457812
00:23
Mmmm spam
01:32
nightcracker: :D
why are we up at 3:32am?
stackoverflow.com/questions/7458857/… - Why are people closing this as subjective? It clearly isn't. "Why is the earth round?" is not a subjective question, and neither is this one.
sadly all the agree-ers are here
not a very interesting discussion thus
how's Seattle btw? I miss it...
I'm enjoying it. :-)
irony is the question was closed anyway; it is a duplicate of stackoverflow.com/questions/1887097/variable-length-arrays-in-c
chuckle I voted to re-open. But if it's reopen, I will close it as a dup.
01:40
gnight
Goodnight.
@Omnifarious It's just drive-by closers.
The question is "Why did <a group of people> do <something>?". That's not the same as "Why does <something> have <a property>?".
02:01
I voted to reopen the question. No-one has provided the relevant technical information yet, neither for this question nor the apparent duplicate, and I was just about to do that. It is lamentable that SO by design discourages discussion, but worse, that by its very nature does not support technical questions and answers outside a very narrow conformists' strip of land.
Ah, I will probably have to post my own question AND answer about it.
Then it doesn't matter if the kids close it; only if a moderator removes it.
I think my favorite part of SO is that it discourages discussion. I don't want to read pages and pages of people arguing, I just want the answer.
@SoapBox very often on SO, answers are technically incorrect. and downright dangerous to follow. it is not a good idea to blindly follow, but yes, most people prefer that.
@AlfPSteinbach Thats what -1 and comments are for. But to have a 'discussion thread' would, I think, often just be a distraction. Also a moderation nightmare.... True discussion is a completely separate goal from question answering.
02:16
@SoapBox Well, I can perhaps help to reduce your fears about this. I'm one of the moderators of [comp.lang.c++.moderated]. We don't have the nightmare you fear. In short, your hypotheses are wrong. It's a good idea to look at facts before hypothesizing.
@SoapBox The question of why a group of people did something is frequently answerable. For example, almost every single decision made in the Mercurial project has a public discussion associated with it. And I would assume that most important discussions regarding the C++ standard also do. It's an eminently answerable question, and does not require debate.
Also, the question it was a duplicate of somehow escaped being closed, despite the fact it is, in essence, an exact duplicate. The one it duplicated never received even a single vote to close. One suspects an irrational fear of the word 'Why'.
02:36
@Omnifarious More likely it was the new asker's over-justification of why it should not have been closed that caused it to be closed....
@AlfPSteinbach I am willing to bet SO has a lot more users (and a whole lot more random drive-bys from googlers) than usenet.
Can anyone please delete the fourth unneccessary tag?
@SoapBox yes, SO has a lot more users. usenet is almost dead, for a variety of reasons. on the other hand, the quality is extremely much higher in the moderated usenet groups, with the people who defined the language and the practices, participating.
@IntermediateHacker where?
@AlfPSteinbach in the chat room tags
c++ , c++11 , c++-faq, ????
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: where people are emo and take things far too seriously [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
I didn't see the [sex] tag at all, but it turned out to be there -- deleted.
@AlfPSteinbach Thanks.
02:46
you're welcome
Why was it added though?
probably because of too much sex talk and flagging of messages here :-)
hi johannes. i added "C99" to one of your answers. check if ok ?
oh
4 hours ago, by StackedCrooked
The sex tag keeps the prudes out.
@JohannesSchaublitb huh?
@AlfPSteinbach I don't understand what he means by "prude"
but I like the C99 addition
it makes it clear I'm talking about the language based array-syntax VLA thing not some other syntax incarnation incompatible to C99
Thanks so much!
lol
02:58
**Intermediate Hacker**

source hw = internet.google("Source Code for Cool HelloWorld Program");
Hacker* intermediate = new Hacker(hw);

while(1)
{
compiler::compile(1);
compile::throw_errors(10000000000);
intermediate->curse(10000000000000000000000);
}

return HACKED_SUCCESSFULLY; //Defined elsewhere
anyway, heading to bed at 5am on sunday
its 7am here
better not to drift too much xD
sigh StackOverflow is a ridiculous place.
The blatant narrow minded stupidity of the way certain kinds of questions are handled make me question its overall usefulness.
@Omnifarious but it would be more dull if there wasn't anything to get riled up about, heh
user457812
03:04
I get so angry at those people on the internet and their things.. SO MANY THINGS!
shrug No, I would prefer that there not be anything to get riled up about.
user457812
Oh yeah, forgot to watch an old painting video I made.. I should do that.
Azh
Azh
03:20
:) howdy
@AlfPSteinbach Lol :D. But seriously. I actually did make a working interpreter. Check it out.
@AlfPSteinbach Is it working right? I actually am making an interpreter for another language, this was just a small subset of it for feedback and testing.
@IntermediateHacker i haven't tried it
................ :(
04:27
^ salmon with mango salad
04:39
Spicy Biryani
:D
04:51
hi
05:04
@AlfPSteinbach Is the dish italian? where can I find it, its looking delicious.
@IntermediateHacker It's very Norwegian. There's a recipe in the VG newspaper. You may perhaps be able to make sense of a Google Translate translation?
@AlfPSteinbach Thanks. Though I can't cook anything except for a fried egg. :D
@AlfPSteinbach Hey, the translation is perfect.
Does boost have any good algorithms for checking whether a string can be converted into an integer?
@IntermediateHacker perhaps. but you can always just try to convert it. if conversion succeeds, then it can be converted.
e.g. you can use an std::istringstream
@AlfPSteinbach the atoi() function returns zero both when it is a zero or when it failed to convert it
@AlfPSteinbach Thanks.
i'll try std::istringstream
05:21
Ah, an "Excavator" badge. Don't know if it's very shiny though. Perhaps a bit dirty.
05:34
@nil - When you get a change, I have a UIKit question. stackoverflow.com/questions/7459606/…
user457812
Fun, xcode is slow..
Can anyone explain this error?
D:\Software Development\C++\Parsing\ProParser\src\typeparser.cpp|8|error: variable 'std::istringstream i' has initializer but incomplete type|
@AlfPSteinbach Thanks.
user457812
05:51
Y'know, when an IDE takes a solid two minutes to open a page of documentation, that's bad.
user457812
It's the kind of bad that makes people stabby.
@AlfPSteinbach Thanks again. You helped me achieve this. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1492235#1492235
@nil Use Code::Blocks , my ide of choice
user457812
06:06
I hate Code::Blocks, plus I don't think it works all that well when you have to use Objective-C.
user457812
I'm much happier with just TextMate and a terminal.
user457812
@Moshe I'm not able to produce any errors when resizing a UITextView before/after keyboard hiding/showing
 
1 hour later…
10:27
@FredOverflow any great revelations in it? I assume it's known stuff for most of us here
of course, Herb is always worth watching/listening to, so I plan to watch the vid anyway, as soon as I have time :)
@jalf I'm two thirds through, and no, there are no relevations.
woah, what's with this new WinRT things, reminds me so much of C++/CLI
and I didn't like C++/CLI
yeah, they reused the syntax to define yet another set of language extensions
meh, I'm not sure if that was a good idea
at least this time, they're not calling it a new language, and they're not trying to convince us to write all our code in it
@TonyTheLion same
10:30
@TonyTheLion As usual, I stopped reading at new ;-)
@FredOverflow lol
Except when initializing a unique_ptr. I would really have liked to have make_unique in the standard.
I understand they want to make things easier, but just keep adding stuff, doesn't necessarily make it easier
oh someone removed the
from the tag line, damn it
@TonyTheLion if you read the comments on the latest vcblog post (or on the relevant Build talks on channel9), you'll see you're not the only one ;)
hmmm
I think MS might be getting a bit too adventurous, it's enough that they keep changing the UI of their OS's already
10:33
heh, I like that someone starred my 'no'
just when you thought you got used to one, a new one, that looks entirely different comes out
lulz
but yeah, I'm holding out hope that they'll make some decent library-only wrappers for WinRT stuff in v2.0 or something
The language extensions make sense for some use cases (although it's pretty obvious the VC++ team doesn't have the resources to maintain the the additional compiler complexity), and you can always drop down to the (so far, basically undocumented) underlying COM, but I'd like to see an intermediate layer
to make it as easy as possible in ISO C++
I think the new GUI stuff makes some sense. They needed a way to make a clean break, in order to support tablets and ARM cpus
so a new API and a different UI makes sense to enable that
and then it's a nice bonus that it's also available to "plain" x86 windows
without replacing the old there
Why does M$ hate backward compatibility so much?
you know there's no dollar sign in Microsoft's name, right?
only 13-year-old script kiddies say M$
and they've maintained the same APIs since 16-bit Windows, so I don't really see how they hate backward compatibility
and they still maintain those APIs. They're not going away.
They're just not going to be available on tablets and phones and the like
If you could overload the $ operator, what meaning would you give to it? :)
10:43
profit
Would be so nice and easy to make money on your software then
seriously though, it could be used a type qualifier or something to denote dynamic types, perhaps.
that'd be somewhat intuitive to people coming from certain dynamic languages
er, a type qualifier wouldn't make sense for a dynamic type. A type name then. Or perhaps an object name qualifier or something?
So $ would be equivalent to boost::any then? :)
@FredOverflow Do you reckon mine has enough bells and whistles?
dunno, I was thinking something like C#'s dynamic. A proper duck-typed dynamic type
where you can test for the existence of a specific member, or add new members to it on the fly
not sure it's a good idea to put something like that in C++, but it's the first thing that came to mind ;)
Haha, rvalues are organ donors, now that one is brilliant :)
lol
where's that from? That c++ talk?
10:49
yes, at 49:49
> The Havir Organ Donor Metaphor
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: rvalues: the C++ equivalent of organ donors [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
Has anyone ever played with the gameboy color?
or the gameboy pocket?
played games on? Or programmed against?
I didn't have enough money back then to buy a gameboy.
played games on. Though I once made a pong game for the gameboy advance.
@FredOverflow I didn't buy it too. My Uncle just gave me an ancient one that belonged to his great grandpa or something
10:55
@jalf Gameboy is a Z80, isn't it?
@jalf There are no decent c/c++ sdks for the gameboy and gameboy color. though there are one or two for the gameboy advance
Ahh. Found it! Here's the pong game I made long ago... game
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`Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.`
**Mark Twain**
11:13
@TonyTheLion - are you the artist formerly known as tony the tiger?
overloading != and ! is really confusing . I always return true instead of false or the other way round.
Is there an equivelant for pascal's readkey; in c++ or c?
like if I want to make a function : "Press any key to continue..." ;
There is no Standard solution because the default streams (std::cin & Co) are line-based, and so is C I/O.
@LucDanton : did you ever use FLTK library?
@MrAnubis No.
then which GUI lib you use?
11:24
I don't use any.
@LucDanton Any non-standard but cross-platform solution?
@IntermediateHacker Not that I know of. What do you need the functionality for anyway?
@LucDanton You really wanna know?
@IntermediateHacker If you're writing a program that needs this kind of user interaction usually one is already using some kind of lib to manage input/ouput so I'm surprised you're not doing that.
So do you need the functionality for the interpreter or the runtime?
hi
@LucDanton I need it for the basic io. I have made read(); and write(); now I am making a readkey();
@IntermediateHacker Then yes, you'd need a library to go above and beyond C/C++ limited I/O. Come to think of it, I've heard good things from ncurses for terminal stuff, although I have not used it myself (also I don't know how portable it is).
@LucDanton Ok then. I'll check it out , I sure hope it doesn't add any overhead.
@LucDanton Know any higher level libraries? how should I google it? "Input / Output Library" ?
11:45
I don't know where to look TBH.
@awoodland Yes, I suppose that was me :P
@Everyone Should small scripting languages be case - sensitive?
?????
12:04
@IntermediateHacker - I think that depends on the style and domain of the language
hey baby
@JohannesSchaublitb Have you read Object-oriented Programming with ANSI-C - Axel-Tobias Schreiner? planetpdf.com/codecuts/pdfs/ooc.pdf
12:21
heh
pop.. think data!
far more important for modern hw
ive got 1234 unread messages in my google box xD
@ManofOneWay nope -.-
12:40
@awoodland style and domain of the language?
@IntermediateHacker what the language is for (i.e. what problem domains is it normally used in) and is it functional/procedural etc.
@awoodland well for now its (barely) a functional language with typeless variables and some cross-platform io functions.
@IntermediateHacker - I'd try and minimise unexpected behaviour for your users. If your users are likely to expect it to be case sensitive then I'd go with that
@awoodland ok then. though I have a few doubts and hesitations...
@Everyone One more question. Should an interpreted scripting language necessarily have a GUI toolkit in its std lib? Like Python's Tkinter and Lua's wxLua
ah, someone of our university released a new version of his OS. looks quite impressive: script-solution.de/escape
12:51
@IntermediateHacker Given that your examples are not in fact standard, does that answer your question?
@LucDanton Yeah. Thanks
Is it going well so far? Please tell me if its working. link
Is it actually working?
@JohannesSchaublitb Are you working on something own ?
@IntermediateHacker "My recent interest is in creating Parsers and Interpreters (inspired by Herbert Schildt's C Interpreter [1989] and various Recursive Descent Parser variants"
nice :)
13:04
·@ManofOneWay not really :)
@JohannesSchaublitb Any ideas? Let's do something
@Nils Thanks. :)
so I might have to check that out
@IntermediateHacker Recently looked at this community.topcoder.com/…
How come I didn't know about Mr Schildt?
@JohannesSchaublitb I only have some iPhone ideas, maybe that's not your cup of tea =)
13:07
im too lazy :)
@Nils I don't know. You may have read some of his books. C++ - The Complete Reference , C - The Complete Reference , C# - The Complete Reference etc.
no..
Good evening to everyone
Or might even have listened to some of his songs (seriously) he used to be in Starcastle
Anyway does the interpreter work?
@JohannesSchaublitb : you're still in university?
13:12
@MrAnubis no im in a one-year break working for a company
after which I plan to do masters
hmm , break from what?
@JohannesSchaublitb Just out of curiosity may I ask what you do?
just doing silly programming :)
so web frontend? :P
@JohannesSchaublitb Are you coding in C++ at your work?
13:17
@JohannesSchaublitb i know you're very good programmer , but you're already grad or still pursuing ?
no im teh clueless guy
good coders usually speak like you
btw what is your age if you don't mind telling?
;)
Well u said silly, but I guess it is something more interesting than web..
that guy is blushing? 0_o
13:22
@JohannesSchaublitb : btw how many tech books you read per month?
Johannes is popular
@vivek only one , that puppy
btw, We just had an earthquake here
@JohannesSchaublitb i've got tons of herb and scott and bertrand books but i really hate reading books now , never could get chance to read any except Effective
13:25
6.8
@vivek from which state?
not in US
then from where? India ?
not in US
question to all: can i publish games or say solvers on codeplex?
13:30
not in US
@vivek are you under loop?
sure u can?
can i ?
connection problem
better now
 
1 hour later…
14:55
howdy
15:18
@croisharp Hi
15:41
hey room
hi
 
1 hour later…
16:46
'Hola
oops.
i flagged my own message but now its deleted
17:18
@FredOverflow Hello, how are you?
@ManofOneWay I ate too much beans.
@FredOverflow :)
And I'm not bashing Java here.
@FredOverflow Have you read Object-oriented Programming with ANSI-C - Axel-Tobias Schreiner, planetpdf.com/codecuts/pdfs/ooc.pdf ?
No, but I am aware of its existence.
But what programmer in his right mind would choose C as a language to do OO in?
17:27
Donno, a realtime programmer maybe
on a chip that doesn't support C++
There is not a single chip that supports C++. That's why we have compilers.
My bad, I meant that sometimes C is to prefer when coding to a certain chip but still you want some of the OOP features
I just think that the book might be fun to read, and that you learn more about C when reading it
It's quite old though
You mean when there is no C++ compiler available for the platform? Yeah, then it makes sense to simulate OO features in C.
But the sheer thought of writing vtables by hand already gives me the rash.
sbi
sbi
Wow. We had an election today in Berlin, and it seems the Die Piraten just got an estimated ~8.5% of votes, and will have about a dozen seats in the next Berlin parliament. That is a very impressive result.
I had never thought that recursion will make me cry so much
17:37
@MrAnubis Personally, I think recursion is one of the most beautiful things in computer science.
@sbi Aren't they just a bunch of security nerds?
i can code most of problems in recursion but my bad habbit of tracing the calls is making me cry , i'm craving for faith
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Well, if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then, depending on it's shape (sharp-edged), it might cause tears.
@FredOverflow Security nerds?
@MrAnubis Most of the times, you can just do textual replacement to understand recursion (unless there are side effects, of course).
> Das Grundsatzprogramm proklamiert, dass aus Sicht der Piratenpartei Deutschland im Zuge der Digitalen Revolution aller Lebensbereiche durch eine allesdurchdringende Vernetzung der Gegenstände des Alltages, die Allgegenwärtigkeit rechnergestützter Informationsverarbeitung und die Entwicklung hin zur Verwertbarkeit von Informationen im Web durch Computer die Würde und die Freiheit des Menschen in erhöhtem Maße gefährdet würden
Ja ja na klar
Ich hatte Bohnen zum Mittag, und nun ist mir schlecht.
17:41
i understood recursion now
That was fast. Did you have a specific problem, or did you have trouble with recursion in general?
'die Entwicklung hin zur Verwertbarkeit' isn't that a mouthful?
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow "The party supports the preservation of current civil rights in telephony and on the Internet.... It also opposes artificial monopolies and various measures of surveillance of citizens. The party favors the civil right to information privacy and reforms of copyright, education, computer science and genetic patents."
"It promotes in particular an enhanced transparency of government by implementing open source governance and providing for APIs to allow for electronic inspection and monitoring of government operations by the citizen." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_Germany#Party_Platform
Sollten wir alle verbinden die Oktoberfest? Alle von der C++ Lounge?
i've seen that while coding recursion , if i consider every issue of problem domain then recursion will always work
17:43
yeah lets all meet at oktoberfest xD
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Löünge<C++>: Cöming tö än Öktöberfest neär yöü! [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
@FredOverflow Looks more metal than German though.
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Urgh.
@LucDanton Indeed. He's too much of a metal freak to get this right.
what about ë ?
not a German Umlaut
17:44
@ManofOneWay That would be a trema, not an umlaut.
Ah naturlich
Wann genau ist das Oktoberfest?
die Daten?
It's like i've fallen in to wonderland of german version of chat.SO
Don't you mean Wunderland?
@JohannesSchaublitb Sie werden dann bitte tragen Dirndl ?
17:48
Why don't German programmers mind too much about heavy stuff falling onto their feet? Because they just love "Zeh Plus Plus".
@LucDanton hmm the word is from alice in wonderland
sbi
sbi
Actually, the estimates for the pirates just went up: from 8.5% to 8.6-9.1 (depending on who makes the estimates).
That is quite a funny result, if you ask me. (Though not unpredicted.)
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