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9:00 PM
and pretty badly researched, one of the literature references is to an empty section on D ranges in the docs of Dietmar Kuhl's library
 
@Xeo :3
 
I wonder how they can accept such papers, who's refereeing that stuff?
 
As a Belgian, I'm feeling very patriotic in the room right now.
 
As a non-Belgian, I'm feeling hungry...
 
What's a subputine? =p
 
9:08 PM
as a Dutchman, I pity the Belgians
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion You’re a Brit, shrimp.
 
lol, I can't even type the typo correctly
 
user1804599
@TemplateRex Ik wist niet dat jij een Nederlander was.
 
@not-rightfold dus wel
 
@Code-Guru I present to you, a poutine:
 
Xeo
9:10 PM
@Code-Guru It's not a typo.
 
@TemplateRex you can accept all papers. Accepting it is just "stamping" a number on it and making sure it's going to be discussed, right
 
@not-rightfold I'm not actually British, but I do live in Britain
 
@Borgleader so a subpoutine is something you make after you eat this? ; )
 
@sehe that would be called "a private blog", for a journal I'd expect some referee process
 
@TemplateRex zo de weg kwijt :)
 
user1804599
9:11 PM
@Borgleader ziet eruit als een friet speciaal met geitenkaas.
 
@sehe hm, ben je ook een Belg?
 
@TemplateRex nie da'k wit
 
@not-rightfold Het is precies dat.
 
user1804599
sehe is onze Nederbelg.
 
user1804599
@Borgleader lol cool
 
9:13 PM
@sehe limbo?
 
zedde ok ne vlaming
 
user1804599
> valming
 
user1804599
xD:3:D:>
 
@TemplateRex neeje nie. La diene Schijvenaar maar blaote. Ik zijn ne ras-tullepetoan
Nobody ever makes typos
 
user1804599
s/aa/æ/
 
user1804599
9:14 PM
 
meej den pet
en d'n kromme bene
 
user1804599
O-benen.
 
da's vaant fietse, van eiges, eej
(disclaimer: gibberish is gibberish, even for the gibberish enabled)
Alleej zeg. Kan niemer tiepe meej dien kroepoek in me tengels
 
user1804599
klaaauwe
 
welp
one (1) attempt to sleep, and about one (1) hour spent kneeling over the toilet.
let's not try that again
 
user1804599
9:19 PM
Coulrophobia is a fear of clowns. Etymology The term is of recent origin, probably dating from the 1980s, The prefix coulro- may be a neologism derived from the Ancient Greek word meaning "stilt-walker."|group=nb}} Although the concept of a clown as a figure of fun was unknown in classical Greek culture, stiltwalking was practiced. Research According to a psychology professor at California State University, Northridge, young children are "very reactive to a familiar body type with an unfamiliar face". Researchers who have studied the phobia believe there is some correlation to the...
 
user1804599
TIL this had a name.
 
yeah... ergh, shouldn't have tried lighting epoxy resin... that's one nasty stink
 
what's up cunts erm people?
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion not much
 
how boring
 
Ell
9:26 PM
I can't see where my swf parser is going wrong...
 
@DeadMG I remember once having stomach influenza (not sure if translated this correctly) - I couldn't decide whether to sit or kneel, as my stomach was exploding in both directions ;0
 
@Ell at the conception
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion seks
 
Ell
According to a windows tool the first byte is incorrect >.<
 
9:26 PM
ARe you a windows tool?
 
Ell
I'm about to download a hex viewer on my vm though to see what's happening :)
I am not :P
 
Wait wait. You don't have a hex viewer? (Hint: VS can open files as binary, and show hex dump, IIRC)
 
Ell
I have a hex viewer on my linux
but this vm is fresh installed, all it has is trillix flash decompiler trial at the minute
 
> How to access doubles or ints on another class in C#?
those question titles...
 
user1804599
lol
 
9:29 PM
@Xeo Smooth.
You know, it's sad that you can't experience a true poutine in Europe.
 
@sehe "Want to learn c#" ( stackoverflow.com/questions/19350498/want-to-learn-c-sharp ) - those question titles ;0
 
Is this the famous dish that's latitude-constrained?
 
@Ell I read: "I have a sex viewer" and for a second I was like "WTF is a sex viewer?!"
 
Permission granted. Go right ahead. — sehe 30 secs ago
 
@TonyTheLion redtube ;0
 
9:30 PM
@TonyTheLion A browser
 
@sehe A poutine requires cheese curds. Those only exist in Quebec and New England. More or less.
 
@TonyTheLion ¬_¬ and you wonder how you have the reputation?
 
user1804599
I want a slice of bread with leverpostej.
 
@sehe :DD
 
Ell
@thecoshman I think his sex rep has faded
We don't really talk about sex in here anyway
 
9:32 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I am fairly sure you can get them else were in the world... but have not admit, never seen them in shops
 
Far too little. Let's talk about fingering
 
@thecoshman haha, I don't wonder really. For a time I wanted to get rid of this rep I have in here, but I've sunk into apathy and given up.
 
@Ell you means it's got a bit flacid?
 
Ell
Hmm according to my linux and windows hex viewer, the file starts with a C. According to the flash decompiler it starts with an F. hmmmmm curious indeed
 
^ fingering in different positions
 
Ell
9:33 PM
@sehe What about it? :P
 
user1804599
Wie hebben er allemaal een lekkere stijve lul?
 
@Ell look above
 
fap fap fap
 
that's hot ;0
 
Ell
Haha I was thinking that :P
 
user1804599
9:34 PM
You removed that message? That’s suspicious.
 
> It would be helpful if there was a closeup to the fingering :)
 
@not-rightfold I am suspicious
 
:DD
 
The starboard has gone down in standards, I mean things used to actually be funny, now the dumbest things get starred
12
 
@Tuntuni It would
 
9:34 PM
what is this?
 
@sehe Indeed. :D
 
@Tuntuni Agreed
 
@BartoszKP Had that in January.
 
@TonyTheLion Circle jerking
 
@TonyTheLion stop star baiting
 
9:35 PM
@thecoshman Stop starring the bait
 
successfully
 
@thecoshman I wasn't star baiting, I was merely trying to point something out
 
@TonyTheLion Stop pointing things out. It's baiting stars
 
@DeadMG :0 that sucks, sorry to hear that
 
@sehe I didn't o_0
 
9:36 PM
FUCK YOU
 
@thecoshman Prove it
@TonyTheLion Ok. When?
 
@sehe you laid the accusation
 
@TonyTheLion I wouldn't, you might catch something.
 
@thecoshman Ooh. At least something in this room got laid
@DeadMG An exception
 
9:37 PM
Star(ve) him to death ;0
 
hahaah
 
Ell
Getting an STI would suck
 
@sehe I'd prefer it people didn't have sex in the lounge, the'll make the couches sticky
 
only @ScottW can have Lounge Sex
 
user1804599
@Ell Standard Template Iterator?
 
9:37 PM
@Ell that's funny, sucking can lead to getting an STI
 
you mean STD
 
Imagine random access iterator sex - that's freaky ;0
 
Actually, sucking mostly leads to bad questions on SO
 
user1804599
std::for_each(dick.begin(), dick.end(), lick)
 
@BartoszKP iterating random vaginas?
 
Ell
9:38 PM
@TonyTheLion idk either. infection/disease
 
@TonyTheLion STD is the old term, STI is the term to use now... though perhaps I have done derped and flipped them back again. (from an NHS perspective)
 
@not-rightfold It's an operation best specialized for this container, hence dick.lick() would be preferrable
 
@TonyTheLion worse, random could mean any possible place to (penet/it)erate
 
9:39 PM
@thecoshman Both acceptable.
 
@thecoshman How did the rest of your London trip go?
 
user1804599
@sehe mouth.lick(dick_piece)
 
@DeadMG fairly sure I asked you this, but is your mum a nurse? STD or STI?
 
@Xeo stackoverflow.com/a/8645270/1520907 Surely you meant typename R, right? (Or am I missing something?)
 
@TonyTheLion oh really good. Was damn tired by the time we got back though
 
9:39 PM
@thecoshman hehe, yea London takes energy.
 
We went to London Dungeon one day, was really awesome
 
Xeo
@MohammadAliBaydoun ya
 
@not-rightfold I would have an observer and a newton-rhapson approximation of the maximum
 
@thecoshman ohhhh never been.
 
@TonyTheLion do it!
 
user1804599
9:41 PM
Is std::bind(&tongue, &tongue_t::lick) correct? I’m going to learn about pointers to members to continue my journey through the C++ programming language.
 
It is a fair bit of standing and walking though
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun 2011 lol
 
@thecoshman sometimes they have wheelchairs if you ask
I've gone to museums and asked for a wheelchair and then got a friend to push me around
 
@TonyTheLion I'm sure you can manage it.
When we went, one section was closed, a boat ride thing, so we would almost certainly go again
 
user1804599
Oh, the arguments need to be in a different order.
 
user1804599
9:49 PM
And the & is not needed.
 
Ell
Just discovered twitter.com/SafePorn
 
@Ell Have you seen this one: youtube.com/watch?v=Zu8u7T7N7-8 ?
 
Ell
@BartoszKP that is golden :P
 
yea : D
 
@thecoshman No.
 
9:53 PM
@DeadMG why the hell do I keep getting that idea then :S
 
@not-rightfold That's like saying you want to discover dogs, so you're going to start sniffing the arse of every random dog you meet.
 
user1804599
wut
 
member function pointers combine the terrible syntax of function pointers, the non-genericness of lambdas, and add inherently unsafe inheritance interactions on top.
the only reason ever to use member pointers is to support legacy APIs.
there's nothing an MFP can do that a lambda cannot do better.
 
Ell
Ahhhhh it's zlib compressed!
that explains it
 
my kidneys hurt
and my throat hurts
 
user1804599
10:02 PM
@DeadMG That does not mean I should not know how they work.
 
@Ell lololol
 
user1804599
I may once encounter code that uses them, or indeed need to interface with legacy APIs.
 
@not-rightfold Knowing how they work, that's a ... problematic thing. Mostly because of the very inherently unsafe inheritance interactions.
MFPs are covered by INVOKE though
 
@not-rightfold come on, be honest, you have to admit that you don't want to know this
 
user1804599
wut
 
user1804599
10:07 PM
@DeadMG eat less dick
 
user1804599
@DeadMG eat less cum
 
Ell
A notable thing I remember is the the size can be greater than a regular pointer right?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
@Ell Basically has to be.
the core of the issue is the unsafe inheritance interactions.
else they'd be like regular function pointers, just with even worse syntax.
 
user1804599
It has to store the vtable offset in the case of virtual functions.
 
10:09 PM
ah, that's not the problematic part.
 
Oh god, fucking MSVC
 
or, really, important at all.
 
Now I have to define my own std::bind overloads to handle more than 6 args
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun You can use a macro to extend the limit.
 
Ell
I thought std::bind was variadic?
 
10:10 PM
Yeah :/
 
@not-rightfold just teasing, referring to the knowledge about how mfps work ; )
 
@Ell With a compiler that doesn't support variadic templates?
 
user1804599
@Ell I thought MSVC was a piece of shit?
 
user1804599
MSVC is like Mysticial: it doesn’t know C++.
16
 
Ell
Oh. I should have read the last message :L
 
10:11 PM
@not-rightfold The core of the issue is that if you have a void (Derived::*)(), you can convert to a void (Base::*)().
 
user1804599
ouch
 
lol wut
> I am to write a program to convert input from Octal into Binary or Hex however I cannot use the pre-written API Routines to do the conversions for me. I figure my best bet is to reverse engineer them and see how it is they function
 
of course, if you then go on to use that MFP on an object which is not actually of type Derived
then fuck you UB.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Is it UB to then invoke it?
 
user1804599
Or only if the method in question doesn’t exist in Base?
 
10:12 PM
if the Base object you use is not, in fact, a Derived.
then it is UB.
 
user1804599
Ah, I see.
 
user1804599
lolfail
 
ah
it gets worse when you factor in how this interacts with incomplete types (you can have an MFP where the class type is incomplete)
and especially virtual/multiple inheritance.
 
user1804599
Can you have an MP to an array element?
 
dunno.
 
10:13 PM
Don't reverse engineer. Think your way through! You're learning how to program. This is: learning how to solve problems with code. Not: find code that already solves it. That's like an architect that know how to build an Eiffel Tower. It's not useful anymore — sehe 4 secs ago
@not-rightfold No.
 
as far as I'm aware, MPs share all the same restrictions as non-MPs when it comes to pointing to arrays, references, that kind of "goodness".
 
user1804599
Thanks for the explanations.
 
user1804599
I am going to sleep.
 
user1804599
See you later.
 
nn
 
10:15 PM
cya
 
user1804599
@sehe BUT I HAVE TO HAND IN ASSIGNMENT TOMORROW URGENT HURR DURR
 
How compilers can manifest "learning" in its most basic form: cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
 
we've all seen it
also, that's not learning, it's simply recursion in a strange form.
1984 was probably before neural nets, genetic algorithms, and such.
those are learning programs.
 
It's remembering, so very close to learning
 
er, not at all.
my hard drive is not full of learned things.
 
10:26 PM
@DeadMG neural nets are something like 60's
 
 #if !defined(_VARIADIC_MAX)
  #define _VARIADIC_MAX	5

 #elif _VARIADIC_MAX < 5 || 10 < _VARIADIC_MAX
  #error _VARIADIC_MAX must be between 5 and 10, inclusive
 #endif /* !defined(_VARIADIC_MAX) */
 
well, he says that it's the closest to learning that he saw.
 
Well fuck you too Microsoft ;_;
 
1984 might be before anyone managed to use one to convince a computer to actually learn something.
as opposed to just a theory
or maybe he just didn't see it.
in any case, the whole process he describes is not learning at all, it's simply recursion and hidden information.
 
@DeadMG you can look at this in a way, that your hard drive is full of facts (in a sense similar to prolog)
 
10:28 PM
the computer never gained any information that was not explicitly imparted to it.
 
@DeadMG I think you're referring to generalization, not learning in general
 
I think you're completely wrong.
spitting back out information you were given is not an act of learning.
 
@DeadMG None of us can be wrong, as we haven't established definitions of "learning" : )
 
I could make that happen with rocks on a beach
and it's pretty fuggin' clear that rocks on a beach do not learn.
 
@DeadMG You could build a computer using rocks on a beach
Yet, some definitions of "learning" cover what is being done with AI algorithms today
 
Ell
10:30 PM
But when you think about it rocks are just brain cells and the sand is an infinite tape
 
@BartoszKP I certainly don't disagree with that.
I don't disagree that neural nets, genetic algorithms, and stuff like that are learning.
even if they aren't very complex/very powerful right now.
 
@Ell Since you've referred to the brain it's not that obvious now - have you read about Searls Chinese Room ?
 
the Chinese Room is bullshit.
I remember proving this before.
it's something to do with infinities.
that don't work out correctly.
successfully implementing the Chinese Room is solving the Halting Problem.
 
@DeadMG Yes, there were many arguments against chinese room, however "proving" is a bit too strong word here : )
 
well
it is a proof in that I posited the argument against, and no counterarguments were apparent, nor suggested by anyone, so by the standards of an interwebs chatroom, it constitutes as close to a proof as will ever be found under such circumstances.
 
10:33 PM
@DeadMG That name is way too intriguing for me to not look it up
 
if only I could actually remember what the argument was.
apart from something to do with infinities.
 
@DeadMG I can see how storing a single fact is not much of a learning. However in this case, it's not only remembering a fact, but also employing it to exhibit a new behaviour
 
@BartoszKP The example posited by Ken does not involve the compiler exhibiting any new behaviour at all.
 
@DeadMG Well, that depends on the abstraction level. Neural network, even if generalizes from its data also never shows any new behaviour
 
well, I disagree.
a neural net can exhibit emergent behaviour that was not explicitly programmed into it.
 
10:37 PM
@not-rightfold, I've finally discovered that that problem was happening only in that folder.
I've copied the folder and deleted the old one and everything seems to work correctly.
 
@DeadMG neural network just separates the data with hyperplanes (or some nonlinear surface) in a multidimensional space - how this can ever exhibit something emergent? training a neural network is just moving these hyperplanes around
 
I think MacVim screwed something up. I've usually found a bunch of .swp files leftover whenever I closed the application.
 
your argument is not a real argument, it is a fallacy.
 
@Jefffrey MacVim sounds almost as unhealthy as McDonalds' ; P
 
when you get right down to it, all computer programs are composed of just a few fundamental operations- as are our brains. How can any of them ever exhibit learning?
 
10:40 PM
@DeadMG Exactly, excluding the part about our brains, as this is not yet known
 
well, arguably, our brains could be a quantum processor, I guess.
 
Oh, we are talking AI here. Cool.
 
although even then, they would still be Turing-Complete and still equivalent to a CPU chip in an abstract sense.
 
@BartoszKP It is. :(
 
@DeadMG We're just still arguing about the definition of "learning" implicitly : P
 
10:41 PM
anyway, if the neural net in my brain made of neurons and synapses can learn, then so can a neural net in RAM made of bytes can learn.
 
@not-rightfold even then
 
@BartoszKP No, I am. All you said was "This is ridiculous that moving some hyperplanes something something can be learning".
instead of saying "It can't be learning because XYZ rational answer".
 
@DeadMG Totally disagree. Classical NNs are very far away from natural neural networks. Only recently spiking neural networks were shown to be a bit more similar
@DeadMG It was an analogy of your argument that remembering a new rule can't be learning. If remembering a new rule and applying it can't be learning, how is that different from rotating/moving hyperplanes?
 
@BartoszKP That.
 
@BartoszKP The question is about in what fashion they are rotated. If the process controlling their rotation is an intelligent process learning to rotate them to achieve a result, then rotating them can be learning.
 
10:45 PM
@sehe Either I don't understand, or you're just pointing out something wrong with my English. If this is the case, then I can only say that I'm sorry :P
 
@BartoszKP I was lending support to your statement there. Like "+1"
 
@DeadMG They are rotated using a simple mathematical rule. A bit more complicated than a rule incorporated by the compiler in our example, but still a precise rule : )
@sehe Oh, all right. Thanks : )
 
well
since I know that neural nets can exhibit emergent learning behaviour, then it is clearly not that simple.
look, I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on neural nets, but it seems foolish to deny that they are capable of learning when you can see them learn
 
@DeadMG don't know what to reply to this, it's a petitio principii argument : )
 
possibly.
 
10:49 PM
It seems to be so, to me.
 
to a certain extent, you are right, in that neural nets only exhibit simple learning behaviour.
 
@DeadMG but yes, if we define learning by "artificial neural networks or ""better"" " then I agree, compiler example doesn't fit
 
You guys and your fancy words, I feel uneducated now =/
 
That's okay. It's basically the case of "Oh noes, a kaleidoscope is not magic" - "Wait, but it's totally awesome". The two don't contradict
 
ok
 
10:50 PM
Turns out, writing 140Gb from /dev/urandom is going to take a while
 
well, I'm gonna take a bit of a leap here and say
 
"Hi"
 
that only a process which is capable of self-feedback is capable of learning.
the compiler can never learn, because it can never see and judge its own output.
 
@DeadMG I think that's a popular axiom (Cf. "strange loops" and other scribblings by writers more knowledgeable than me)
 
@DeadMG I think that it's one of recognized axioms, so it sounds allright
@DeadMG but if a compiler compiles itself into its next version, isn't that self feedback?
 
10:52 PM
no.
if the compiler the compiler compiles doesn't work, the compiler doesn't do anything.
 
You mean, it doesn't usually evolve. But it could.
 
it just sits and waits for a human to correct the problem.
there's no analysis.
the compiler neither knows nor cares if the program it outputs is correct
if it isn't correct, the compiler takes no action.
 
It could however do some or all these things
 
well
arguably, you could implement a compiler to be a learning program, of course.
 
Ken Thompson did this way back (the famous "it looks like we're compiling a logon process" hack)
 
10:54 PM
that is the very thing we are discussing
and I am suggesting that the compiler did not learn anything at all.
 
Oh ahaha
I agree. It had a heuristic programmed in from the get-go
 
@DeadMG Consider this analogy: neural network won't alter its internal structure, unless presented with a training sample. It will learn, when a human will present it. The same situation here with the compiler: human presents a new rule, and compiler compiles itself incorporating the new knowledge
 
I think Ruby's REPL has a similar thing to detect REPLs being "pasted" into the REPL
 
nah
neural net can learn things that the human didn't intend, or come up with solutions to the presented problems that the human didn't tell them about.
if a human tells a neural net a way to solve a problem, it might ignore that solution altogether in favour of a more effective one.
 
Look at me gleam. Guessing the relevant historical event from just the discussion fallout in the lounge. Woot.
 
10:55 PM
the compiler has no such choice.
if the rule doesn't work, it just carries on blindly.
 
@DeadMG No, its just hard to imagine a hyperplane in 100 dimensional space. But there is nothing there that wasn't put by the human
 
no evaluation.
 
@BartoszKP I tend to agree.
 
@BartoszKP The human programmer sure didn't imagine it. That's what counts.
well, you assume that he didn't, else he wouldn't need to run the neural net in the first place.
 
It's a bit like fuzzy algorithms that may or may not lead to optimal solutions. It's hard to imagine the way in which it will reach a solution, but it's still not an accident if it does. Only to the extreme
 
10:57 PM
@DeadMG The difference is, that when you look at the ants, they seem to exhibit some intelligent behaviour. Does that change, if in 100 years we will be able to look into their brains, and explain exactly all of their actions?
 
@DeadMG But he did devise input/output correlation. Classical NN seem like very advanced optimization to me
 
@BartoszKP No.
what matters is that the information contained within the NN did not come from the programmer.
 
@sehe Exactly. Training a neural network is nothing more than an optimization problem.
@DeadMG But it did.
 
then why did he bother building an NN at all?
just implement the final solution directly.
 
@DeadMG Because it's compilated analytically. It is possible to find the solution directly, it would just took like 5 years with pencil and paper
or 10, or 100 : )
 

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