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user1804599
2:00 PM
Objective-C requires it, and they thought why not. :P
 
ah ok
I thought Microsoft was the only company giving the ^ symbol new meaning in C-ish languages :)
 
user1804599
The only thing C now still needs is generics and it will be an awesome language.
 
Doesn't C11 have something like generics?
 
user1804599
Nah.
 
user1804599
It has some kind of overloading.
 
user1804599
2:04 PM
So you can e.g. say foo(x), and depending on the type of x it will call fooi(x), foof(x) or fooc(x).
 
I see. Syntax?
 
@not-rightfold I believe I am in Hell.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow #define foo(x) _Generic((x), int: fooi(x), float: foof(x), char: fooc(x))
 
> Generic selection is implemented with a new keyword: _Generic. The syntax is similar to a simple switch statement for types:_Generic( 'a', char: 1, int: 2, long: 3, default: 0) evaluates to 2 (character constants are ints in C).
LOL
just found Computer Programming quotes, let's see if there's anything good in there...
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I read that article this morning. :|
 
2:07 PM
lol, the 2nd is already gold
@not-rightfold How did you find it?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I don’t know anymore.
 
user1804599
Oh, right, I know again.
 
me neither :-/ I think I was googling for "any c++ programmer will outperform any java programmer anyday" or something.
@not-rightfold tell
 
user1804599
I was reading an article on Wikipedia about Scheme, and it had a link to the Computer programming portal, which had a link to that page.
 
> Computers are man's attempt at designing a cat
lol
 
2:13 PM
> Software and cathedrals are much the same – first we build them, then we pray.
 
Or we change jobs.
And leave the others with cleaning up the mess.
 
> Don't get suckered in by the comments … they can be terribly misleading.
 
Or did you mean the prayer was for finding a new job?
 
user1804599
Okay.
 
> One day my daughter came in, looked over my shoulder at some Perl 4 code, and said, "What is that, swearing?" (Larry Wall)
 
user1804599
2:14 PM
What shall I write in Scheme?
 
A Scheme interpreter?
 
@not-rightfold A letter.
 
A closing paren
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow (eval (read-s-expr)) done lol
 
user1804599
2:15 PM
@FredOverflow Error: (line 17) unexpected list terminator: #)
 
> If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.
@not-rightfold What did you put in the first 16 lines?
 
user1804599
(define fib
    (lambda (n)
        (case n
            ((1) 0)
            ((2) 1)
            (else (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2)))))))

(define ..
    (lambda (b e)
        (if (> b e)
            (reverse (.. e b))
            (if (= b e)
                (list b)
                (cons b (.. (+ b 1) e))))))

(print (map fib (.. 1 20)))
 
You can use computers to calculate fibonacci numbers? Awesome.
 
user1804599
I like (map (o print fib) (.. 1 20)) better, though. :)
 
@FredOverflow lol
 
2:25 PM
@not-rightfold What got you excited about Scheme?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I want to learn a Lisp and Bartek told me to learn Scheme instead of Common Lisp.
 
You could have picked Clojure.
Also, what made you want to learn a Lisp?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Maybe, if I wanted to wait ten years for my program to compile.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I don’t know.
 
@not-rightfold Have you tried it? Or are you just assuming the JVM is slow? :)
 
user1804599
2:31 PM
I have tried it.
 
user1804599
It was a pain.
 
user1804599
C++ outperforms Clojure at compile-time.
 
That's not a surprise, is it?
 
You mean, C++ takes ages to compile? Or did you actually mean that Clojure beats C++ in that department?!?!?
 
user1804599
Both.
 
2:35 PM
That's ..... awesome
 
someone write something. I wanna see if scrolling works again :D
 
...
 
yay
 
scrolling works
 
no more broken auto-scroll in chromium
 
2:37 PM
Just refresh the browser window (also cookies if that's not enough)
 
was driving me nuts. first it would always scroll to the top of the chat then down, then it stopped auto scrolling alltogether
 
Whoa
@sehe - And more worryingly you might hit a bug in the product too... Incorrect Results Caused By Adding an IndexMartin Smith 1 min ago
Someone responded to a comment >2 yrs old
 
That reminds me.
If you look at a permalink.
It doesn't move.
But it still adds new messages.
 
@Pawnguy7 permalink takes you to the transcript?
 
@melak47 yes
 
2:40 PM
the transcript is for reading old stuff, not for keeping you current on current stuff, why should it move? :p
 
That is the thing. Not moving makes sense, so you can read stuff. But why does it add new messages then? Not sure why it bothers me when I still have the original window up, though.
 
well, you're viewing a certain time frame in the transcript, and when that time frame extends beyond "now", it makes sense that messages posted "now" will show up there too :)
 
@Pawnguy7 it's link to the transcript. it's basically a read-only view
@melak47 this happened to some of us before. I think, back then it was just related to incompatible cookies after an upgrade of SE chat
 
@melak47 Does it? As you said, it is for reading old stuff.
 
@Pawnguy7 It adds new messages in the old tab you had opened. It does not add new messages in the tab of the transcript.
 
2:45 PM
@sehe hmm, I tried clearing all that stuff and it just went away now when I got a newer chromium version :)
 
@Jefffrey how comes the circle?
 
I think I should change the auto update from daily to idk..monthly? too many bugs lately :p
 
Oh. Maybe it doesn't add the messages. What was I thinking of, then? I distinctly remember it not scrolling for new messages.
 
Is it normal for my obj files to be corrupt very often requiring me to clean and rebuild the entire solution in MSVC?
Because it's starting to get to me :V
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun I don't ever recall that happening to me :D
 
2:48 PM
;__;
 
17 hours ago, by Pawnguy7
Wishing I had free time.
 
Ah.
I rediscovered a game I found a while back.
 
@not-rightfold I refuse to believe that until I've tried myself. But I don't want to learn Clojure, so I guess I'll never know.
 
What is interesting is.
3
It takes up more processing time than Minecraft.
I have no idea why.
 
@Pawnguy7 it has shadows :p
 
2:51 PM
It doesn't sleep between frames, probably.
 
I don't think they are dynamic, though.
 
@Pawnguy7 Thats... an achievement
 
@Borgleader I don't understand.
@Jefffrey that would be my guess.
 
Minecraft doesn't do so well in terms of performance
 
@Jefffrey you can sleep when you're dead! render render render render faster faster faster faster!
 
2:52 PM
lol
 
@Borgleader Worse and worse every update, it seems.
 
^
 
Maybe they should have an optimization update.
But then the content mob might kill them.
 
I remember I could play with render distance "Normal" very fine once upon a time. Now it's laggy when it is "Tiny"
 
2:53 PM
Can anybody read the stuff above NULL pointers?
 
@FredOverflow What is this? Text for ants?
 
I think that's part of the joke :D
 
Is the unary :: operator really necessary for global scope variables? ::g_nGlobalVar = 5;
 
@JohnMerlino I believe it is implied by default.
That is to say, I have never used it yet.
 
It's not, but using it makes your intent to use a global variable clear.
 
2:55 PM
@Pawnguy7 Sometimes you need it to solve ambiguity.
 
@JohnMerlino No, but if you had a variable with the same name in the local scope and you didn't prefix it with ::, it would be chosen over the global one.
 
@Jefffrey Using it for the default namespace specifically?
 
ahh I see thanks
 
@Pawnguy7 yes, if you want to select the global namespace over a local variable.
 
namespace global = :: :p
 
2:58 PM
There you go. 4 more chars to type.
 
Why did "What is interesting is" get stars?
 
@Jefffrey if it worked :p
 
Yeah, hopefully it doesn't. But you never know with C++.
 
Your professor prefers buggy implementations of standard random distributions? Fire your prof :) (half-joking, only) — sehe 21 secs ago
 
@JohnMerlino If you find yourself using a global variable, instead of considering yourself with the correct way to access them, burn all your code that handles it.
 
3:02 PM
> I've tried ... but errors appear. Wat do?
You gotta love those questions.
 
@DeadMG I use std::cout which is a global variable :(
 
re-evaluate it
 
@FredOverflow Really, that's just poor design on the C++ stdlib's part.
 
Although it takes painfully long, I'm loving how Win8 shows background tasks in a side panel (installing VS2013)
 
@sehe I thought you were a linux user for some reason
 
3:09 PM
I am. That's why I'm surprised at the "hidden" features that are still nice
 
Guys, do you think putting an SSD in my Thinkpad X61 will make it noticeably faster?
 
I'm using Win8 now because I bought a new laptop running it
@FredOverflow Always. Not "think". It's a given. Unless you don't put your OS on it
 
@FredOverflow yes
 
@sehe OMG huge font!
@sehe I think I read somewhere that I should flash a cracked BIOS that enables faster transfer rates or something. Let me see if I find that article... FOUND IT
 
My eyes aren't what they used to be... :( Also, I'm on the couch with suboptimal lighting conditions (and part of it may have been my playing with the "smart" touchpad features)
Multi-touch zoom FTW
@FredOverflow If your laptop is veritably old then you might need to check. Anyways, Sata2 will still allow the improved latency to have effect.
Sata3 will let a moderns SSD shine (550+Mb/s)
But really, latency is where the real gain is. No seek times. Yay
 
3:13 PM
I need Menlo 13 while Menlo 12 is default. That feels bad.
 
I think I remember that installing Windows and VS 2012 on my laptop with a normal HDD takes about an hour. I'll try and see how fast it is with an SSD. Trouble is, the SSD is in my desktop, so I'd have to install two computers from scratch, as opposed to doing nothing and leave everything working as it is...
 
@FredOverflow ugh, VS2013 RC took forever to install on my laptop...the stupid IE10 installer took over an hour
 
Oh well. Choices
 
@sehe ?
 
Looking good. About ~10 minutes (allthough my sense of time might be off due to my chatting, and also, the dialog might be misleading what with reboots and installation phases?)
That's SSD, obviously
 
3:17 PM
yeah it was quick on my desktop...but the IE10 download took forever on my laptop for whatever reason. and failed multiple times. and failed to install multiple times. >_>
 
@FredOverflow Wait. Wat. Sata2 support? Yes, you'll want that first...
@melak47 I think I remembered that
 
@melak47 That's the main reason I'm staying with VS 2012 :)
 
maybe I installed the wrong ethernet driver. idk :p
 
Does anyone now how i can avoid statics/globals when using type erasure to store objects? Since the objects are stored as void* and can be of any type i dont have the possibility to store references in local member variables.
 
That's bad. Luckily, this being a brand new laptop, it came with IE10 installed. Hadn't even fired it up yet (why would I) only just now to check the version
 
3:20 PM
@DavidKron What's a local member variable?
 
@DavidKron what. storage duration and type information are completely unrelated
 
@sehe well I installed win7 recently :) win8 was just not working out with the crappy hdd :/
 
@DavidKron You mean, you want them statically allocated, so you don't know the size? I believe there was an article linked recently with a (very very very very evil) approach to pImpl idiom that "solved" precisely this
 
Since they are of unknown types, i cant store local references inside the object.
@sehe No i want to be able to reference generally used things like a render object/window/input etc
 
@DavidKron sure you can! void& voidref = *voidptr; ...oh
 
3:22 PM
6
A: Pimpl idiom without using dynamic memory allocation

Matthieu M.I would suggest an approach using the C++0x new class aligned_storage, which is precisely meant for having raw storage. // header class Foo { public: private: struct Impl; Impl& impl() { return reinterpret_cast<Impl&>(_storage); } Impl const& impl() const { return reinterpret_cast<Impl const

^ @DavidKron basically that
@DavidKron Well, what's stopping you? Generally referenced things are ... generally just referenced.
 
@sehe Yes but without storing references to them as static or global variables
I want to have local reference that i pass around, which is the general view on avoiding statics right?
 
Sigh. Of course. I don't see where "storing references to "them" as global variables" is mandated. Two things: SSCCE and Stack Overflow
 
and your mom
 
user1804599
3:46 PM
Has anyone here ever tried Haxe?
 
man
 
dog
 
with all the days I spent not eating recently, I practically forgot what shitting feels like
 
@DeadMG Just read some PHP and it'll remind you of at least the general idea.
8
 
lol
 
3:52 PM
so, corn bread didn't seem hard to make... wonder what this will taste like
 
also
I ate a sandwich for like, the last three days in a row, and that was definitely overambitious
 
with wheat bread I would assume...
maybe you should try gluten free for a while
it's not that hard to do, and worst case, you just find out that being gluten free did not help you
 
if eating literally nothing is of limited effectiveness, I doubt that I can have a food allergy
 
if only that was figuratively true :P
 
when is VS 2013 going RTM?
 
4:02 PM
@melak47 13 November.
 
@JerryCoffin and they still haven't fixed/wontfixed my bug report ;_;
 
@melak47 I made one too that hasn't been addressed.
I mean, I gotta admit, I'm used to WONTFIX, but I'm not used to no response.
 
they must be really busy and stuff doing awesome things....I hope...
 
I suspect with the tighter release schedule, it's going to take them a while to figure out how to keep up on everything, and responses to bug reports are probably a fairly easy item to defer.
 
They WONTFIXed my bug report a couple of months ago. :<
 
4:06 PM
personally
what surprises me is that fifteen years after C++98, Microsoft still don't have an exception-safe push_back.
 
@DeadMG Neither do they have an implementation of exceptions that is practical to use when you care about performance.
 
I never had any issues with exception performance
 
@willj how many gigaexceptions/s do you get?
 
@JerryCoffin JavaScript sucks too.
 
@melak47 For 32-bit programs, using exceptions in msvc hurts performance even when you don't throw any
better in 64-bit tho
 
4:10 PM
@GamesBrainiac With JS, semi-clean code is rare, but at least possible. I've heard rumors of cleanly written PHP, but at least based on my personal experience, I have to classify it along with Gorgons, Unicorns and other mythical beasts.
 
@JerryCoffin I just can't stand the fact that JavaScript returns undefined if a key does not exist in a dictionary. Throw a KeyError dammit!
 
4:23 PM
JavaScipt enables high granularity. Like here. But I don't often see that kind of code.
It's a bit like policy-based class design in the runtime world..
At least the granularity aspect of it.
Not the runtime overhead.
 
this is just awesome
 
my grandma got this new suitcase and was confused when there was no key for the lock. Turns out it's actually a combination lock, and the key hole is a backdoor for the TSA :)
 
@StackedCrooked I really don't understand. I'll need to look up what you just said.
 
Many desktop applications of the past are now web applications. And with JavaScript you have to possibility to "open the hood" and start modifying the dom and reprogramming it. This was never possible with desktop apps.
@GamesBrainiac It's not very important.
 
@StackedCrooked I see.
 
4:28 PM
Policy-based design was introduced by Alexandrescu in his book Modern C++ design in the early 2000.
 
@StackedCrooked I see. I need to get back to learning C++ at some point. No point in trying to avoid it.
 
It's a method of composition using a combination of templates and multiple inheritance.
But it never got really popular.
 
@StackedCrooked I always thought of Policy-based design as the template version of the strategy pattern
 
Some games have a html/js UI ontop of a regular d3d/ogl game. works well enough, until awesomium crashes and you are left with no UI :p
 
Policies also shape the interface of your class.
 
4:32 PM
Rackspace has really good support.
 
I would think of std::function as convenient mechanism to provide strategies.
 
Coffee-driven Programming
 
user1804599
CoffeeScript.
 
@not-rightfold Java :P
 
user1804599
Fuck Java.
 
4:35 PM
@not-rightfold You've been doing that for a long time now.
I hate php more than java.
 
typedef Loki::StrongPtr< Thingy, true, TwoRefCounts, DisallowConversion,
    AssertCheck, CantResetWithStrong, DeleteSingle, DontPropagateConst >
    Thingy_DeleteSingle_ptr;
 
user1804599
I want to write a program.
 
Java still has its uses, regardless of how inconsisten it is.
 
@GamesBrainiac He still hasn't come... to terms with Java
 
@not-rightfold write a language then.
 
4:35 PM
I want a program to write itself
 
user1804599
Java has no uses.
 
Unlike your mom
 
user1804599
And inconsistency is not my argument.
 
My dream is to write a program that writes programs.
 
4:36 PM
@CatPlusPlus Back from your secret job?
@MohammadAliBaydoun I hear thats impossible to do.
 
I would like to write virus.
 
user1804599
Java is designed to prevent you from writing any program in it.
 
user1804599
It does everything to counteract.
 
@StackedCrooked And use Corilou to infect people! Genius Luffy!
@not-rightfold For example?
 
@not-rightfold so it was designed after all?
 
4:37 PM
I want to know how infecting a program work.
 
@StackedCrooked Ask rapptz
 
user1804599
@GamesBrainiac throws-clauses and lack of type inference for local variables.
 
@StackedCrooked just write something that randomly repositions the mouse cursor and beeps at random frequencies in a while loop :p
 
user1804599
It’s as expressive as a potato.
 
@GamesBrainiac If we can do something, I believe it is possible for a computer to do it too, because we're not very special, we operate on a network of neurons and input from our environment.
 
4:38 PM
How do you attach your code to a program and make it infect other programs.
Binary patching?
 
@not-rightfold lol, I asked a question regarding this, actually, but go on.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked By making sure the user uses Windows.
 
@GamesBrainiac Yes, my secret job as real estate buyer
 
@GamesBrainiac I have no way to prove it's possible though :(
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun I actually watched a video by Eric Grimson (MIT's Chancellor or something) regarding why this is impossible, but I can't seem to find it.
@CatPlusPlus Nah, you're probably a smuggler.
 
user1804599
4:39 PM
So bored.
 
@not-rightfold a potato can be cooked, baked, fried, sliced, mashed...how is that not expressive
 
user1804599
The only thing it can express is misery, just like Java.
 
@melak47 You can't infer it to be anything other than a potato.
 
user1804599
Look at how poor it is, being cooked.
 
user1804599
StackedCooked.
 
4:41 PM
@StackedCrooked luffy, you're being cooked!
by ponies.
@StackedCrooked I know how you can make a virus. Write one that targets the JVM! :D
 
Are ponies good to eat?
 
user1804599
@GamesBrainiac Not a cannibal.
 
@StackedCrooked Silly potato, you can't eat ponies.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Paardenworst jonge.
 
user1804599
 
4:42 PM
@not-rightfold I got google translate turned on. I know exactly what that means :P
@not-rightfold You want pony sausages?
 
user1804599
No.
 
user1804599
I already have one. :3
 
@not-rightfold That looks like chocolate cake with sprinkles.
 
user1804599
I don’t know where you get your chocolate, but it’s not a decent place.
 
How To Make C++ Preprocessor Even More Painful To Use In 10 Easy Steps
 
4:46 PM
@not-rightfold I do like the irony of selling what is supposed to be magically tasty meat in a can that would normally be used to sell meat that is such low quality it is hardly worth feeding to dogs
@CatPlusPlus 1) use it
 
Read that shitty post
 
My lord, home made corn bread was the tasty!
 
user1804599
@thecoshman lol
 
@thecoshman they call it magic, nobody said anything about it being tasty :D
 
The magic taste of shoes
 
4:48 PM
@melak47 don't be silly, everybody knows unicorns taste awesome!
 
and sweet potato mash is sweet!
 
I was not able to figure it out.
 
Looks like named tuple
 
#define GENERATE_COMMA() , o.O
 
4:53 PM
Someone doesn't know about BOOST_PP_COMMA
Preprocessor is shit, you cannot have a comma in macro arguments without indirecting it.
Otherwise it's an argument separator, always.
 
ugh. preprocessor
 

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