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12:00 PM
fucking heat out there ¦P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well I've used it a bit already
 
sbi
I almost can't believe how stupid some people are.
 
@sbi Erm
Is that from the onion?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno. It showed up in my Twitter timeline.
So did this, BTW:
> In C++14 you just write auto auto(auto auto) { auto; } The compiler infers the rest from context. — @berkus
22
 
12:06 PM
> Neither do I want developers to be penalized because they forgot a single + sign somewhere when cranking out asm.js style code manually.
 
lolwat
 
@sbi Exactly what I'm thinking reading this blog post again
 
#auto <auto>

auto auto() {
    auto::auto << "auto";
}
9
^ hello world!
 
Wait, it can't possibly infer strings
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Oh you!
 
12:07 PM
:P
 
> I wish the browser makers would get together and define a new bytecode standard explicitly designed to support multiple modern statically-typed programming languages in the browser with very high performance.
this guy actually makes sense
we need LLVM IR to WWW bytecode, fuck JS forever
 
I was just about to say
why the fuck would they define a new bytecode standard instead of just using LLVM IR.
 
well one thing is that it's harder to sandbox
Chrome tried that with NaCl and pretty much noone uses that (wasn't exactly LLVMIR but you get the point)
 
Isn't the main reason that no one uses NaCl that no one cares?
 
ASM.js has the unique property of saying "fuck you" to all javascript developers
 
12:10 PM
C++ developers don't give a fuck about the web, and web developers don't give a fuck about C++.
 
I do give a fuck about the web, as long as deploying my C++ apps there will be easy
I see no reason why my OpenGL C++ app shouldn't work on purely web Firefox OS or simply in your browser
 
@BartekBanachewicz Doesn't make a dent in my point.
 
Joke would have been so much nicer if it compiled.
:(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes there are C++ developers maintaining 20yo projects in the basements, and there are people like me (I guess) that want to code in modern C++ and actually go out with their code, and compete with all that JS and Java and ObjC BS
 
@BartekBanachewicz shrug we also need a better OS API, 3d rendering API and CPU instruction set.
 
12:12 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, three.
 
but we're stuck building on what turned out to be popular
 
@jalf ES3 is good enough
 
Oh.
For a moment there I thought you meant ECMAScript 3.
Gosh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes three people, huh?
It shouldn't be that way.
 
@BartekBanachewicz "good enough"? Yeah, so is asm.js
 
12:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I was trying to describe the way it is, not the way it should be.
 
@jalf exactly. I see no reason in being a perfectionist. ES3 is perfectly fine in being a subset of desktop GL
 
What's ES3 again?
 
@Rapptz GL ES 3
 
I thought ECMAScript 3 but I'm not catching on.
 
@BartekBanachewicz just like asm.js is a perfectly fine being a subset of js?
 
12:14 PM
OpenGL Embedded Something 3.
(see, it matches)
 
Oh right. I should have figured it was OpenGL related coming from Bartek.
 
@Rapptz Yeah, that would be just insane.
 
@jalf asm.js is a bytecode; for a C++ programmer, the only thing that matters is how good bytecode can your compiler output
thus, as long as it will be ran fast, I don't care
 
@BartekBanachewicz but it is good enough
 
12:15 PM
@jalf it's 2x slower than native execution ATM, with rather minimal memory impact, which I consider good enough
 
So, you consider it good enough, and yet 10 minutes ago you said, and I quote, "we need LLVM IR to WWW bytecode, fuck JS forever"
perhaps I'm just a tad confused...
 
oh yes, note how I agreed with a mere wish
 
unless you consider asm.js to actually count as "WWW bytecode"
 
I have no idea what is going on.
 
@jalf ok, so, I was being myself and overly emotional again
but I honestly believe that asm.js can be an effective tool to bring C++ to the web
 
12:17 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ok, gotcha. I guess we agree then (not on the "emotional" part that is)
 
I'm not sure I like that idea.
 
I thought you were saying that asm.js was not good enough before
 
there are a few obstacles to counter.
6 mins ago, by jalf
@BartekBanachewicz shrug we also need a better OS API, 3d rendering API and CPU instruction set.
ES3 is ok, WebSockets are transferred to POSIX sockets
There's local storage for persistence of arbitrary data
but it's still not ideal
 
few things are
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes considering FFOS idea of running apps without installing them... hm
Anyway, I want to move in that general direction.
Especially considering that C++ code with asm.js beats normal Javascript to the ground.
 
12:21 PM
3 mins ago, by jalf
@BartekBanachewicz ok, gotcha. I guess we agree then (not on the "emotional" part that is)
 
isn't the elephant in the room "we're still stuck with HTML for the actual GUI" though?
 
And if it was good enough for Epic Games, it's good enough for me and I'm going for launch
 
HTML is not an elephant!
 
@jalf I actually like HTML.
HTML5 renders as native components
 
It's certainly some sort of grotesque hybrid.
 
hybrids are awesome.
 
@BartekBanachewicz For document-based stuff, sure. But if the goal is to turn the browser into a more general-purpose app platform, it'd be a pain in the ass
 
Though now that you mention it, I'm also not sure I like the idea of C++ taking over a sizable chunk of client-side on the web.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I meant for graphic stuff, obviously, why don't you like the idea for other stuff?
 
@thecoshman What?
 
12:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes If the browser accepts LLVM IR then it could also be Wide
 
@jalf you can draw arbitrary interface when you have GL. And TBH I think that HTML UI isn't much worse than stuff like Swing
@DeadMG you can do it already. There's LLVM IR interpreter in JS. But it would be better to use Emscripten anyway
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, you can Which is why every desktop app uses OpenGL to do their GUI, yes?
look at those pixel shaders on the menus in Office
;)
 
ahahaha lotus notes got bronze for craptool
 
@jalf Firefox OS does :). And oh, Aero
 
tbh I think the browser as a "viewer of supercharged documents" model, which is basically what it is today, has a lot of value. I'm not sure I want it to become a broad app platform
 
12:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Best is if the browser just accepted it directly instead of going indirectly though JS.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what?
 
@jalf (Doesn't it use DX or something?)
 
@DeadMG right now no can do.
 
WPF does (VS, Blend).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it uses a GUI library, which may or may not use some GPU acceleration underneath
my point is "but we have GL" is not an answer to "how are we going to do general GUI stuff?"
 
12:26 PM
@jalf Oh, I agree. I was just wondering if you picked a good example.
 
I'm pretty sure Office doesn't use WPF though. (but I could be wrong)
 
@Aboutblank Crapt- ooooooh I have an idea.
@jalf It doesn't.
 
I can't say I dedicate much of my day to keeping up with the latest technological feats of MS Office
 
Office always uses its own thing.
It's like MS uses Office as a test facility for UIs (both on the dev side and on the UX side).
There. I just nominated CrapTool on craptool.com
3
 
12:30 PM
true
 
It is now illegal to obtain nuclear material in the Vatican.
 
Wow that site's awful.
It looks so.. ..old.
 
> Nominaten saved. You get an email in the next minutes. Please click the link in this email to verify your nomination!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Geez. It was about time they closed that loophole. I mean, nuclear material and child abuse pose a safety risk together.
 
It has to be approved by admins.
:(
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Gotcha!
 
12:36 PM
@sbi Oh gawd.
Is that the Jenkins page for your current project?
 
@sbi Uhm, what’s that?
 
> Thank you for your nomination! As soon as it's approved by one of our admin's you can see your nomination on our start page!
 
ah :)
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Jenkins
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Basically, that's what it is.
 
12:36 PM
I thought it was a weather report :p
 
Xeo
@sbi Wow that's aweful.
 
No right?
 
Xeo
@Rapptz No(t yet), else it would be on the official Boost page
 
I found this on /r/programming
 
12:37 PM
@Rapptz Probably under review or something.
 
The example is extraordinarily crappy.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am working on a framework. I just changed the tracing facility. I broke all the projects... :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes A number of self professed 'boost' candidates aren't really under review any more (Boost Process, Boost Extension, ... IIRC)
 
It should be CLEARLY indicated on the github page, though.
 
12:39 PM
Well.. the example is pretty shit.
 
object* o = new object; // just an empty object
haha
 
@Rapptz Ugh.
 
sbi
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sounds like someone trying to shoehorn C++ into Smalltalk.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
 
@Rapptz ?
 
12:40 PM
!
 
@Rapptz I agree with you.
 
@Rapptz glad you got the point
 
> This library is not an official part of the Boost libraries collection. It will be submitted for review somewhere in late 2013.
 
12:41 PM
@sbi And this your last day before vacation?
 
there. hurray for fucking reading
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's not inherently obvious there would be a subdirectory when the page you're on is called "introduction.html"
So.. yeah. Sorry I guess?
 
hurray for reading fucking
 
Hmm, someone reposted my Rule of Zero post on reddit.
 
Jerks!
Just VTC as a duplicate, then
 
12:46 PM
Oh you replied to the comment.
 
Eh, someone reacted to him replying to someone commenting on a post, reposted on a site.
 
I was going to mention the comment on the page but I noticed he replied to it. Hence the "Oh" :P
 
@Rapptz Well, there was already someone thinking about lambdas with guards and shit, so I thought I should cut the evil right there.
 
@Rapptz MetaOverloadException
 
12:50 PM
o_0 fucking roof just feel in a little bit
 
Someone might be in your roof
Or you could try to.. raise the roof.
 
@thecoshman get a ladder and push it up again
 
@thecoshman go to your boss and claim safety hazard and go home
> I sneeze like a howitzer.
 
@thecoshman tell the roof to stop feeling and get back to work
 
lolwat
that's loud
 
12:54 PM
@TonyTheLion Upwards.
 
I like how many people just assume that feel -> fell
 
> seriously, i used to get emails from a coworker sayings "bless you". there was a wall between where we sat.
oh woah
 
"a wall". come on. That's nothing
 
oh you
 
@sbi C++ is now genuinely context-sensitive!
 
12:57 PM
holy crap, auto looks so weird now
 
@Aboutblank fyi, making fun of my bad spelling is no longer fun
 
It's funny how a keyword that no one ever used and a large number of programmers didn't even know existed becomes one of the most used.
 
Xeo
auto
 
Well it did go from useless to amazing.
 
Xeo
Yeah
But I still wonder if you can use Concepts in place of auto
Integer i = s.size();
 
12:59 PM
Oh, and operator auto.
 
I do want that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is, untill you also point out it went from stupid to fucking amazing
 
@Xeo is integer strictly positive?
 

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