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4:18 AM
@VLAZ Whoa. What?
@ZoestandswithUkraine You mean like every time I get pinged in SOCVR? ;-)
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Fun linguistic nitpick: this is actually wrong. The past participial form of "wake up" is "waked up". As in: Today, I wake up. Yesterday, I woke up. This week, I have waked up.
There is, in fact, a word "woken", but it's the past participial of "wake" (no "up").
Or... something like that?
 
@CodyGray my British roots motion a note of protest!
 
Yeah, the linked article mentions it's more of a British thing.
(Although it sounds correct to my years, too, so....)
But it does still mention that it wouldn't be used with "up".
 
and I mentioned that I semi-randomly switch between British and US [American] English :)
 
Yeah, I think I do that sometimes as well. Which is more odd than you doing it.
Ah, I see I missed a rodent infestation in Userscripters.
 
4:35 AM
@CodyGray well, ya'll were a part of the Empire, so... [slowly backs away]
 
That was a couple of years before I was born.
 
a couple years? How old are you? :)
 
Old enough
Old enough to remember the "before" times :-p
 
which of the "before" ones? ;)
 
Time is an illusion
 
4:51 AM
Yeah, it keeps disappearing when I reach for it. I recommend space.
 
You don't find that that disappears on you, too?
 
5:10 AM
No, it's usually still there when I try to reach it
 
5:51 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Before the pandemic
 
6:18 AM
Before we were always at war with Ukraine ;-)
 
 
3 hours later…
9:26 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine now is a special time
@CodyGray what the American society thinks about caught mercenaries in the UA?
 
Huh?
Russia has been using mercenaries for decades. It's not something unique to Ukraine or new to Ukraine.
Mercenaries were key to Russia's seizure of the Crimean Peninsula back in 2014. Why would anyone in the US or elsewhere expect this to be any different?
And, yes, surely Ukraine is also recruiting mercenaries. Again, why would they not?
The concern is that, under certain definitions of "mercenary", Ukraine's use of them could violate international law, due to treaties that it is a signatory to but Russia is not?
Meh, it's a freaking invasion.
 
9:42 AM
@CodyGray disagree, there was regular army
 
You mean that Russia exclusively used "regular army" in the invasion of the Crimean Peninsula? That's just wrong.
Look up the Wagner Group.
Russia has been using them since at least the Crimean invasion in 2014. They've shown up all over the place since then, from Syria to Mali, and, of course, Ukraine.
Naturally, Russian officials deny this, but why would you expect anything else from a self-interested party that has absolutely no ethical scruples or standards anyway?
 
@CodyGray i don't know, exclusively or not. Maybe they were in small quantities
 
For some definition of "small", sure.
 
But you also know, that Amrica has more mercenary squads that other countries
And uses them everywhere
 
Yes
Well, I don't know about "more ... [than] other countries", but it wouldn't surprise me.
I don't know the specific comparative quantities.
America tends to have more of everything when it comes to militarism.
 
9:55 AM
When the Russia was weak - your authority hadn't any questions, but now, when the old world is falling to hell - questions appear
And story with Taiwan
 
Huh?
When was Russia ever "weak"?
If you mean, "When Russia wasn't actively invading the sovereignty of another country", then, yes, we had a lot fewer questions then.
As with Stack Overflow, there are many problems, which leaves one with little choice but to focus on the most serious ones first.
 
@CodyGray 1986-2004(?) By the my opinion
@CodyGray ye, earlier it was an exceptional right of the NAT 😁
We should stop, i don't want quarrel
@CodyGray Codyyyy, you didn't take offence at me????
 
10:15 AM
I have no idea what you are saying, really.
"an exceptional right of the NAT"? What is the NAT?
 
@CodyGray NATO?
 
So what happened to the "O"?
And, I mean, if you're trying to point out that the US and other actors have done unjustifiable things internationally multiple times in the past, I'm certainly not going to contest that.
I have rarely agreed with my country's foreign policy.
But that doesn't justify other actors doing it.
 
10:33 AM
Unfinished :-)
But you know that US is guiltied in this conflict
 
How so?
 
@CodyGray who made the maidan?
What did the mrs Nooland there?
 
You mean this? Surely, you are not trying to tell me that the US caused that?
 
Oh, Reddit, excellent.
Yes, the US supported the demonstrators.
 
10:40 AM
@CodyGray Reddit is also russian propaganda?
 
No, it's just a bunch of morons with opinions and no facts.
It's like getting your news from Twitter.
It's not a news source.
 
But this the fact, that she was there
 
Undoubtedly
She was the lead US official in supporting the Ukrainian Revolution of Dignity.
Not sure what relevance that has.
If you're saying that the US "caused" the Russian invasion of Ukraine because we had previously supported demonstrators trying to move Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence, uh...
I have no words to reply to that. It's too stupid for words.
If we'd have just let Russia continue to control them, Russia wouldn't have to have invaded them to re-establish control?
 
Yes, your authority climbed in the Russia's sphere of influence
And it was the biggest mistake
 
That's ridiculous
 
10:50 AM
Imagine, if Russia makes the military base in the Mexico?
What do you say
 
Do you mean, if Russia invaded Mexico?
 
If Russia makes the puppet authority there
 
I don't know what you're talking about
Russia cannot just establish a military base in a sovereign country
It's not even a reasonable analogy, considering the US has no military bases or other military installations in Ukraine.
 
I think you know, that NATO made navy base in Ochakiv
 
Um
 
10:54 AM
It looks like UA base, but only formally
 
Ahistorical analysis again
The relationship between Russia and NATO went south only in April 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea
 
Really?
 
Yes
The North Atlantic Cooperation Council was established in 1991, shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union. This facilitated relations between NATO and the Russian Federation.
 
Relations between Russia and NATO were good through the 90s and early 2010s. There were many joint agreements.
Yeah
You linked me to an article that describes Russia's warped, ahistorical view of the world and their own propaganda.
It doesn't surprise me that they have stupid and wrong ideas.
 
10:57 AM
Nato promised to Russia something, yes?
 
No
Putin just wants to bring back the perceived glory of the Soviet Union, much like Hitler wanted to bring back the perceived glory of Germany prior to World War I.
 
He wants only return historical lands of the Russia
Like China wants Taiwan
 
Yes, you mean the lands that Russia previously successfully invaded during the time of the Soviet Union?
But that's not "historical" any more than me wanting to eat what I had for lunch yesterday is me wanting to "reconnect with my historical roots".
 
Almost all lands of modern UA were in the Russian Empire
More than 300 years ago
 
Do you support Britain reclaiming all lands that were once part of the British Empire?
 
11:02 AM
And almost all parts of the Russian Empire weren't part of the Russian Empire before that. Should we just dismantle Russia, in that case?
 
Yeah, exactly
Why stop at 300 years ago? Just go a few years further back.
Clearly we should give Ukraine back to Poland.
 
The historical argument is very weak. For pretty much any place in Europe, there have been at least 10 "owners". Picking one arbitrarily to be "the true owner" is only done by said owner to push their claim.
 
I mean, it was de jure Polish territory in 1569 under the Union of Lublin.
 
Do you know that the Poland was the part of the Russian Empire? ;-)
 
Only later.
There was no "Russian Empire" in 1569.
That wasn't formed until 1721.
But yeah, you're right, 1569 isn't far enough back. It'd be better to give Ukraine to Italy, since the Republic of Genoa (which is now part of Italy) founded colonies in what is now Ukraine and transformed them into large commercial centers in the 13th century.
 
11:06 AM
XD
 
Or maybe we could just let the Ukrainians have themselves
A thing called "self-determination".
 
Yes, and you will see: they will be again with russian and belarusian people like it was before.
 
Because that's what they want?
Or because Russia will successfully overrun them with military force?
 
Orthodox slavic trinity
They want, except 4 lands of Galicia
 
There are polls showing that the majority of Ukrainians want to be part of Russia?
 
11:11 AM
During the conflict all polls are false
 
What about before the conflict?
Would there be a conflict if the majority of Ukrainians wanted to be part of Russia?
 
Would there be a conflict if the maidan didn't happen
 
Irrelevant
 
Not even in 2014
In 2004!
 
The fact that it happened shows that Ukrainians do not want to be part of Russia
 
11:18 AM
I don't know
 
Besides, your statement inverts causation
 
Cody, I'm an ordinary man
 
Yes, I didn't think you were an alien.
 
I'm write what i saw and what i feel
 
So you aren't responsible for making sense, as long as it's what you feel?
 
11:19 AM
I don't want to wasch your brains
But i know
If the us and eu treated better to the 2007 putin's speech - nothing would happen
 
Yes, if we gave Putin everything he wanted, then he might have been happier. For a while.
Do you also think that the refusal of the Allies to give in to Hitler's demands "caused" World War II?
If I demand something you don't want me to give me, and then I do something bad because I'm angry I didn't get it, it doesn't transfer responsibility to you because you declined to give me what I want.
 
11:36 AM
Hitler was created by (you know these countries) to confront USSR :-)
 
Again, huh?
 
But the project got out of the control
 
That's a gross oversimplification of all the events and factors that factored into Hitler getting into power to just be the responsibility of one particular power or nation.
 
I need to go
Good bye, guys
Please no offense at me
 
 
4 hours later…
4:01 PM
I can't handle XY questions. They drive me up the wall. It's like somebody asking for a help driving a nail into a wooden board with a hammer but they aren't holding a hammer, they are holding a fish. If other people have problems with their actual hammers in the future, finding advice like "don't use a fish" doesn't help them. And fish users rarely phrase their problem correctly "Board doesn't accept nail" or "nail too slippery" is what they ask about.
 
4:26 PM
@VLAZ Is the fish a hammerhead shark?
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Don't drag us into this garbage. Nobody here would say woken like that. We use woken for things like "I've only woken up recently", not just in place of woke.
The only reason I didn't comment on it before is because I thought you were correcting "have you woke up recently?" to "have you woken up recently?", not because you actually thought "I've woken up a couple of hours ago" was correct, because it's not :p
 
@NickstandswithUkraine Of course it isn't. I even meant to add it to my mini-rant but decided to omit it.
 
Just making sure, I'm not sure how effective hammerheads are as hammers
probably not very :p
 
At least they sort of look like one. From afar.
 
@CodyGray sips tea with interest
2
 
 
1 hour later…
5:58 PM
@manro if we are to go by that definition, we have to give Russia as a whole to UA because historically it's their territory. Are you aware that Kiev is basically the founding city?
[dang it, I missed all the fun]
 
6:10 PM
@NickstandswithUkraine but... but... ya'll do use "have woken up" in the exact sense I mentioned?
@manro do you know that Poland also wasn't a part of the Empire? :)
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Not in the sense of "I've woken up a couple of hours ago", no.
 
@NickstandswithUkraine I still object :) 1 - although this one I am mostly sharing because of the content, lol, didn't expect that to show up
 
That's not the same sense
the trailing " a couple of hours ago" is the problem part
 
challenge accepted! Joking aside, it's kind of odd that the trailing part would be unusual
 
 
3 hours later…
9:14 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine it was the Kievan Rus'. Did you heard something about term "UA" or "Ukrainian" in that time? :-)
@OlegValteriswithUkraine ok, it was the part of the Poland, because it was divided between countries
 
@manro and Russian Empire is not Russia, exactly. If you want to go with the "historical territory" argument, you need to take into account things like this, because otherwise it's arbitrary bullshit (which it is).
also, by that logic, Sweden has a good claim on Vyborg
"historical territory" is the most bullcrap argument I heard by any country's propaganda
oh, native Americans also would like a significant chunk of the US back too
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Russian empire - USSR - Russia, no? Or USSR wasn't an assignee of the Empire?
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yes, but they were killed a lot
 
@manro precisely what happens to Ukranians right now
"historical territory" is just a nice way to mask the word "conquest"
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine numbers don't confirm your words
 
you've been over this with Zoe, @manro - if you are going to link to my country's affiliated sources, they will surely "confirm" your claim.
 
9:25 PM
@manro That isn't actually relevant, in the same way that the British Empire is not Britain. Just because the Russian Empire was named the Russian Empire does not mean they are the same thing.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine fake rapes, Butscha and what else?
@NickstandswithUkraine yes, but the Britain wants to return its potence like a Russia, agree?
 
No
Not even slightly
there's no benefit to it
We want everyone to get along and stop wasting lives, time and money fighting each other
 
@NickstandswithUkraine precisely - even legally current Russia is not considered to be a successor of the Empire (neither was USSR). It is considered legally a successor to USSR only - that's why we inherited (and paid out back when there was an intention to successfully integrate with the rest of the world) its enormous debt.
 
The same reason Germany had large debts after WW2, you cause the debt, you keep the debt :p
 
@manro it might come as a shock, but "potency" is not defined by conquest - I'd actually call any leadership that wants to "make X great again" im-potent.
 
9:32 PM
But if no benefits to do it, stop sending a lot of weapons to UA. Britain wants to save an access to the black sea via Odessa. I'm not right?
 
ahem, to allow my country to roll over it with ease?
 
What? And let a fascist regime have what they want with another sovereign state? No thanks.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine you already know the result
They want to kill more slavic people in this conflict
 
may I please decide for myself what I know, @manro?
 
By sending weapons to UA we're standing up for what we believe, countries should be allowed to live without fear of invasion from dictators
 
9:34 PM
Ok. Then i have a question to you
 
What I know is there is a conquest by a regime that is hell-bent on staying in power by pandering to "patriotic" feelings while the economy crumbles because of sheer incompetency, lack of democratic processes, etc
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine How many lands will have the "new Ukraine" after this conflict?
 
Best case scenario is Putin drops dead within the week and someone who understands the benefits of mutual success takes over.
 
@NickstandswithUkraine to be honest, I fear the moment they drop dead. Because the next one is likely to be even worse from all I know
 
The second bit is important
we need that to happen too
and it has to be natural as well, an execution would be a fucking disaster
 
9:39 PM
Behold, Oleg, they want to see your country weak and sick
 
yea, ofc. Frankly, unless the system crumbles like USSR did, there's little chance for improvement as everyone that could understand the benefits of cooperation is either (a) dead; (b) abroad
 
abroad cause they jumped ship ASAP :p
 
@manro I want my country to be respected, not feared because of threats.
 
Western politicians respect only the fear!
 
I want to be able to say "I am from Russia" without it meaning "I am from a war-mongering country with no freedom of speech, no elections, crumbling economy, etc"
 
9:40 PM
You're clearly not western.
 
@manro you clearly miss out on all the countries that do not have even a fraction of military force but are respected because their economy, values, and political systems are a net benefit for the humanity. Not this.
 
Key example, we have a huge amount of respect for Taiwan
 
@NickstandswithUkraine and are you preparing to fight with China?
@OlegValteriswithUkraine is it a Monaco?
 
No, but we'd be prepared to defend Taiwan, we have even offered, and they rejected our help
Fighting is not the same as defending
 
@manro pick pretty much any established EU country
 
9:48 PM
Do you ready to serve in the military to save the UA or Taiwan?
 
Hell no, I wouldn't serve in my own military to protect my own country
 
Wow
How so?
 
I don't think that's too hard to understand
 
you do realise that not everyone likes to kill for any reason, @manro?
and if one is consripted to defend one's country, they can do it in other ways than going to the frontline?
 
Someone can produce weapons. But their weapons will kill.
 
10:02 PM
have you heard of people that save lives instead of producing anything or participating on the frontlines?
 
How?
 
oh, you know, those "isignificant" roles like doctors and nurses, for example
 
Right, i thought that we talk about the frontlines
I think, i should go. While this conflict is active - here I'm an alien
Goodbye, Oleg, Nick...
 
10:19 PM
I told you before that you shouldn't talk about it
 
eh, @manro, you keep bringing it up in a place where no one shares these values - why is pushback unexpected?
 
I know some persons who changed their views recently
But i will glad to see you again
Soon
 

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